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Is it ok to refuse to serve gay customers?

japanfan 2010/10/31 00:38:07
No, its discrimination!
Yes, its your business
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The owners of an Indianapolis bakery refused to serve gay students. The students put forward an order for rainbow colored cupcakes and refused to be served by the owner of the bakery which is located in the publically-owned city market.

The owner said he refused to prepare a special order for a group that endorsed homosexual activity.

But now, the owner of the Just Cookies stand could face eviction. "That could be grounds for taking away their stand in the market," Wayne Schmidt, president of the City Market Board told the press. "I'd hate to lose them, but we can't tolerate any kind of discrimination like that."

Was it discrimination or should you be able to refuse certain customers? I personally think this was wrong and homosexuals should not be refused the right to buy cakes. But what do you think?
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  • Miyabi 2013/11/11 21:35:13
    No, its discrimination!
    Miyabi
    +1
    What does sexuality have to do with bussiness?
    Geez...
    sexuality bussiness geez
  • Lovelybadone 2010/12/26 23:23:00
    No, its discrimination!
    Lovelybadone
    +1
    absolutely not, that would be like a store being owned by gay people refusing to serve straight people, it's awful, simply awful!
  • Fomite30 2010/12/11 09:03:33
    No, its discrimination!
    Fomite30
    +1
    Business is business and sexuality doesn't factor into it. Why would you even want to turn away any business in this economy anyhow? Besides, last time I checked gay people's money was just as green as everyone else's. I think it's good the way the president of the City Market is being so tentative to the situation. It is discrimination, no doubt about it. You refuse service to people for not wearing shirts or causing a scene. You don't however have the right to refuse service to someone based on sexual orientation. ---Or race...etc.
  • ghostrider 2010/12/02 02:34:27
    No, its discrimination!
    ghostrider
    +2
    Businesses that "serve the public" do not have a "right" to discriminate under ANY circumstance/pretext/excuse ... today it's the gays .... tomorrow; Jews, blacks, Latinos, midgets, giants -- well, you get the idea ... the history of the U.S. is replete with someone's "right to refuse service to anyone" ... all which have been found to violate the law.
  • memebev1 2010/12/02 01:50:28
    No, its discrimination!
    memebev1
    +1
    Just show me the money!!
  • thepastord 2010/12/01 19:38:07
    No, its discrimination!
    thepastord
    +2
    This stuff is just crazy.............. So, I'm a pastor and I go in and order a huge rainbow cake, we have some girls clubs and one of the clubs is called "Rainbows" (seriously, we also have stars and daisy's). So are they going to judge me based on my rainbow cake order? Are they going to assume that only a gay person or group would order a "Rainbow Decoration"?

    They need to just make the frapping cake, cookie, cupcakes and get on with the days work! I can't imagin Jesus refusing to make someone a cake just because they are gay, purple, mute or happen to have rainbow tattoo eyelids!
  • RLars21 2010/12/01 05:55:22
    No, its discrimination!
    RLars21
    +1
    this one's a no brainer
  • abycinnamon BN-1 2010/11/16 17:41:34
    No, its discrimination!
    abycinnamon BN-1
    +2
    I sincerely hope the owner of this business is evicted for his heinous discrimination. I think that members of the GLBT community should enjoy exactly the same protections as other minorities under the civil rights act. It would also be nice if the community would boycott the bakery in support, but i guess that would be asking too much.
  • ☠XXxxSkull QueenxxXX ☠ 2010/11/09 20:20:01
    No, its discrimination!
    ☠XXxxSkull QueenxxXX ☠
    +1
    No its not Gay people are Normal people shouldent do that at all just because someone is gay your not going to serve them ..i say that is Rude and it shouldent be tollerated
  • Britt 2010/11/08 00:51:35
    No, its discrimination!
    Britt
    +1
    Freedom is for EVERYONE in the United States. They're just rainbow colored cupcakes. I've seen worse from straight people.
  • LilMissManners 2010/11/07 23:14:53
    No, its discrimination!
    LilMissManners
    He should legally be allowed to refuse sponsoring, donating, or attending any homosexual event/group/etc that he chooses. But he should not be allowed to discriminate when it comes to paying customers.
  • Queen B 2010/11/07 18:29:03
    Undecided...
    Queen B
    +1
    Only if you don't want to make money and stay in business. Why would a business owner refuse to serve any section of the population?
  • onebad 2010/11/06 08:17:18
  • Isma'ila (God has heard)! 2010/11/05 05:45:20
    No, its discrimination!
    Isma'ila (God has heard)!
    That is not Christlike at all! I personally reach out to homosexuals in the name of Christ because it is the right thing to do.
  • ValorNET 2010/11/05 02:59:17
    Yes, its your business
    ValorNET
    +1
    But IF you want to make money, you won't step on anybody's toes. Ya see?
  • Helmholtz ValorNET 2010/11/14 09:17:26
    Helmholtz
    +1
    There's a trade off. He may get more customers for discriminating, once word gets out. PETA came and protested KFC once back in my hometown and it like tripled their business that day. Once people learned that PETA was there protesting, they went out of their way to eat there. It was in the paper.
  • cookie monster 2010/11/04 22:11:22
    No, its discrimination!
    cookie monster
    +1
    ignorance
  • David (oYo) 2010/11/04 21:49:20
  • Isma'il... David (... 2010/11/05 05:45:48
    Isma'ila (God has heard)!
    +1
    Thank you David. As a bisexual I thank you.
  • David (... Isma'il... 2010/11/05 09:24:31
  • SANDERS 2010/11/04 21:04:21
    No, its discrimination!
    SANDERS
    +2
    Oh man, if I was one of thos gay kids I would have been throwing fists.
  • chaoski... SANDERS 2010/11/05 03:04:22
    chaoskitty123
    +3
    http://thegloss.com/culture/c... They're not even raising a fuss over this and respect the shop owners right to refuse them service. Not only that, digging a bit further I found they're not even all gay, they are a diversity group and some of their members are straight and bisexual apparently. They in fact are apparently attacking people who are trying to make an issue of this when they say the issue is over and done with as both they and the shop owner seem to have agreed on a mutual respect agreement where they don't disrespect him and he doesn't disrespect them. They don't want him to lose his shop, they don't want any actions taken against him and they seem to be saying they oppose others trying to make an issue out of this where they see no issue anymore.

    They're acting like adults... but look how others are trying to exploit the issue and disrespecting their decision to drop the matter as they got their cupcakes.

    Apparently, a lot of people including many gays oppose National Coming Out Day as it's not about coming out anymore... it's about respect and mutually respecting one anothers views and as long as no harm is done... it seems a lot of gays have no issue with opposition to this holiday.

    Just some stories I went through after someone else here challenged me to read the...



    http://thegloss.com/culture/c... They're not even raising a fuss over this and respect the shop owners right to refuse them service. Not only that, digging a bit further I found they're not even all gay, they are a diversity group and some of their members are straight and bisexual apparently. They in fact are apparently attacking people who are trying to make an issue of this when they say the issue is over and done with as both they and the shop owner seem to have agreed on a mutual respect agreement where they don't disrespect him and he doesn't disrespect them. They don't want him to lose his shop, they don't want any actions taken against him and they seem to be saying they oppose others trying to make an issue out of this where they see no issue anymore.

    They're acting like adults... but look how others are trying to exploit the issue and disrespecting their decision to drop the matter as they got their cupcakes.

    Apparently, a lot of people including many gays oppose National Coming Out Day as it's not about coming out anymore... it's about respect and mutually respecting one anothers views and as long as no harm is done... it seems a lot of gays have no issue with opposition to this holiday.

    Just some stories I went through after someone else here challenged me to read the story even though I made sure people knew I wasn't aware of the facts and thought it was discrimination using comparative analysis. So I did read the story and seems everyone has it wrong... the issue was resolved to their satisfaction and they seem to have had no problem with his decision. People not involved appear to be interjecting their views into this and they're the ones trying to have the shop owner punished.

    It is discrimination... but unlike the past where a black student would be denied service by everyone, they got their cupcakes and feel he has a right to have his beliefs without being punished for them.

    We can disagree with them but ultimately... they are right as why destroy a mans business in this economy when he has kids because of ignorance where no harm was done to anyone. If this is the way they feel... I have a lot of respect for them because I probably would have overreacted and after watching his business destroyed, regretted what happened as even if he was wrong, so would I have been in depriving a family of their livelihood over a few cupcakes.
    (more)
  • sami chaoski... 2010/11/12 21:18:47
    sami
    +1
    This is very respectable. They are very strong and mature people. Good for them =)
  • Bob, the reasonable one 2010/11/04 19:22:27
    No, its discrimination!
    Bob, the reasonable one
    No it's wrong...and really stupid....gays are great tippers!!! :)
  • LilaGrace ~ Proud Liberal 2010/11/04 15:59:39
    No, its discrimination!
    LilaGrace ~ Proud Liberal
    +1
    Is it LESS discriminatory because they're gay? Would it be ok to refuse to serve a woman? Or a hispanic? Or a black? Discrimination is discrimination. It's wrong, no matter who you discriminate against. And the fact that the business is located in a publically owned market leaves the board with no choice but to evict if the business refuses to serve ALL customers, not just the ones whose lifestyle, gender or ethnicity, they are comfortable with.
  • chaoskitty123 2010/11/04 03:20:38
    No, its discrimination!
    chaoskitty123
    +1
    That's a tough one and the same question has been asked about a black restaurant owner who refused to serve a white supremist several months back as well as the reverse where a white restaurant owner was caught doing the same to black customers but owned his eatery.

    On the past stories, opinions were divided as many leftwingers thought the black restaurant owner was correct to not serve the white supremist even though the white supremist wasn't doing anything wrong including expressing their views... but when the other case was presented, many leftwingers called it racism when the white restaurant owner refused to serve black customers and those who supported his right supported him being run out of business which was not how they felt about the black restaurant owner.

    The political right on these matters tend to be straight forward either calling it racism regardless of who does it or saying they have the right... but being equal in their views regardless of the perpetrators race. if they said it was racism, they said it regardless if the perp were white or black and if they said they had the right, the same remained true that the race of the perp didn't alter their view.

    If a group endorsed something we consider wrong, most of us would support the owners right to refuse i...









    That's a tough one and the same question has been asked about a black restaurant owner who refused to serve a white supremist several months back as well as the reverse where a white restaurant owner was caught doing the same to black customers but owned his eatery.

    On the past stories, opinions were divided as many leftwingers thought the black restaurant owner was correct to not serve the white supremist even though the white supremist wasn't doing anything wrong including expressing their views... but when the other case was presented, many leftwingers called it racism when the white restaurant owner refused to serve black customers and those who supported his right supported him being run out of business which was not how they felt about the black restaurant owner.

    The political right on these matters tend to be straight forward either calling it racism regardless of who does it or saying they have the right... but being equal in their views regardless of the perpetrators race. if they said it was racism, they said it regardless if the perp were white or black and if they said they had the right, the same remained true that the race of the perp didn't alter their view.

    If a group endorsed something we consider wrong, most of us would support the owners right to refuse it. Let's say it were someone wanting cupcakes for a sleazy gangbang who wanted gummi penises on them... would you say he didn't have the right to refuse making them even if they supplied the gummi penises? You'd probably be on his side then in saying he had the right to refuse. You don't have an issue with homosexuals so you think he's in the wrong.

    Question for you... how did he know they were gay unless they told him?

    Consider that for a few moments as these were rainbow cupcakes and I don't see where anything elicit or "gay" was asked to be added do you?

    Miyabi, do you have more on this story as I can't find it (wring keywords I guess) and I would like to know how he knew they were gay.

    Sounds to me like it was a simple request for a rainbow colored cupcake which any of us would ask for and I cannot see how he would know we were straight or gay unless they tell us in which case you invite the discrimination as what possible reason could they have to tell this guy they were gay to have cupcakes made? There must be more to the story here or wherever you got the story isn't being fully revealing about the incident.

    I voted that it was discrimination assuming the students told him they were gay, were wearing clothes saying they were or were acting obnoxious. I'm sorry, but the typical wrist flipping, bi*ch calling homosexual is not acting natural but exaggerating a cross between Marilyn Monroe and Marlene Dietrich which is a mimicked or learned behavior that even many homosexuals find offensive... because most don't act that way. Even so and regardless of my opinion about obnoxious behavior (and yes Virginia, I feel the same about straights who act obnoxious), unless they wanted something on those cupcakes that could be viewed as obscene, the store owner should have made the cupcakes and taken the money. Gay can be green as my friend Maurice puts it and if you won't take money from a gay man just because he's gay, then you're not a bigot against gays... you're a bigot against greenbacks and anyone opposed to making a buck where you're not being asked to kill, commit a crime or take your clothes off is not right in the head.
    (more)
  • Flea 2010/11/03 23:45:16
    Yes, its your business
    Flea
    As long as they are performing violent, illegal, evil acts, sure- other than that, why should you NOT serve them? I'm certain they are not going to sneak into the bakery and start humping the owners behind the counter- and if they working in a bakery, they probably too fat for anyone to want to hump anyway.
  • La 2010/11/03 21:27:15
    No, its discrimination!
    La
    +1
    Blates discrimination, which is illegal. You can have rules for customers to follow, but that's more about their behaviour in your store, not about their personal life.
  • chaoski... La 2010/11/04 03:37:19
    chaoskitty123
    What if they were acting obnoxious like some gays are known to do flipping their wrists, calling people bitches or basically acting obnoxious? How did the store owner know they were gay? Did they tell him? And if they did, for what possible reason would they have to do that?

    If a group of people came into a store all acting like Squarepants Spongebob or acting out a Dungeons and Dragons routine, would that be any different? I mean, I like role play games but these people who do it in everyday life in the supermarket and other places are a pain in the glass and I feel I shouldn't be harassed by these people pretending they're a barbarian character while I'm trying to pay for my groceries.

    I'm not saying they did anything like that but it's a very interesting question how the store owner knew they were gay since they were just asking for rainbow cupcakes like you or I would. But if he refused to make them for me because I'm fat and he thinks I need to lose weight, that would be discrimination also. Yet, if I come in acting like a moron upsetting people by my behavior... not gay or straight but my behavior itself, wouldn't he be in the right to refuse them since their personal life is being externalized by their behavior in public? Most gays don't act lie that and even though the...

    What if they were acting obnoxious like some gays are known to do flipping their wrists, calling people bitches or basically acting obnoxious? How did the store owner know they were gay? Did they tell him? And if they did, for what possible reason would they have to do that?

    If a group of people came into a store all acting like Squarepants Spongebob or acting out a Dungeons and Dragons routine, would that be any different? I mean, I like role play games but these people who do it in everyday life in the supermarket and other places are a pain in the glass and I feel I shouldn't be harassed by these people pretending they're a barbarian character while I'm trying to pay for my groceries.

    I'm not saying they did anything like that but it's a very interesting question how the store owner knew they were gay since they were just asking for rainbow cupcakes like you or I would. But if he refused to make them for me because I'm fat and he thinks I need to lose weight, that would be discrimination also. Yet, if I come in acting like a moron upsetting people by my behavior... not gay or straight but my behavior itself, wouldn't he be in the right to refuse them since their personal life is being externalized by their behavior in public? Most gays don't act lie that and even though they might kiss or cuddle, they're not carrying on like some freakish two headed mutant combining Marilyn Monroe and Marlena Dietrick. I don't care what people think because if a man walks up to me, flips his wrist and calls me a b*tch... I'll break his damn jaw for him and show him some b*tches kick like a mule.

    I am making a leap here La so no need to call me on it. But the story does not say how the owner knew they were gay. I agree it was discrimination because something more had to have gone on where the store owner learned they were gay... and frankly because anyone stupid enough to deny making cupcakes for someone that are no different than they would make for someone else is stupid.
    (more)
  • La chaoski... 2010/11/04 09:39:34 (edited)
    La
    +1
    If they were behaving inappropriately, then he could have kicked them out on that basis. I don't know the true facts but it's portrayed that he refused to serve them because they were gay and the cakes were for some kind of gay benefit. I'm guessing it was some kinda idle chat that people do in shops. "You better not be eating all these yourself ahaha" "Oh no it's to help gay people" "Blasphemy!" Ya know, I can imagine it went down something like that. But obvs since I wasn't there, I don't really know.

    If people were roleplaying in your store, that's a perfectly legit reason to kick them out, and it isn't discrimination. You're right, it is an interesting question. Arguably, to kick someone out for acting like an idiot is to discriminate against stupid people ;) But we like personal responsibility, so we don't go there.
  • LilaGra... La 2010/11/04 16:22:56
    LilaGrace ~ Proud Liberal
    +1
    They weren't "behaving inappropriately". They placed the order by phone, not in person. He knew they were gay because they told him the name of the group placing the order (a gay student group from Indiana University).
  • LilaGra... chaoski... 2010/11/04 16:21:45
    LilaGrace ~ Proud Liberal
    +2
    They knew they were gay because the group told them who the cupcakes were for, a gay student group from Indian University. They werne't "acting gay" because the order was phoned in, not placed in person. The owner compared the cupcake order to "a cookie with an obscenity written on it". How, I ask you, are those things even remotely similar? This was blatant discrimination without the excuse of "they came in acting gay and calling people bitches". Numerous articles about the incident are available on the internet. You really shoud read one of them.
  • chaoski... LilaGra... 2010/11/05 02:50:44
    chaoskitty123
    So why tell him who they were? Was it important to say we're a gay students group?

    As for my comparison, you jumped the gun a bit there Lila as I did say it was discrimination and I did say if they just wanted rainbow cupcakes that it would be no different than the rest of us and thus discrimination. You want to jump on someone, go after the person who posted the topic for not including the details we were asking for and whenever I assume someone isn't looking for the info or maybe they missed the story... I post a link.

    Like this one and I'll even quote something which gives the shop owner leverage from the very people he refused to serve.

    http://thegloss.com/culture/c...

    Quote
    The group placed their order with another bakery, and a spokesperson remarked, that they have “no formal complaint against the [Just Cookies]” and that “embracing diversity means allowing the business owners the right to their opinion and the right to choose how to serve its customers.”
    End Quote

    In other words, they call themselves a diversity group rather than gay, the cupcakes were being made on National Coming Out Day and the group itself says they have no intention of filing a lawsuit or taking any actions because they respect the shop owners decision. In other stories I found linked to this when I foun...



    So why tell him who they were? Was it important to say we're a gay students group?

    As for my comparison, you jumped the gun a bit there Lila as I did say it was discrimination and I did say if they just wanted rainbow cupcakes that it would be no different than the rest of us and thus discrimination. You want to jump on someone, go after the person who posted the topic for not including the details we were asking for and whenever I assume someone isn't looking for the info or maybe they missed the story... I post a link.

    Like this one and I'll even quote something which gives the shop owner leverage from the very people he refused to serve.

    http://thegloss.com/culture/c...

    Quote
    The group placed their order with another bakery, and a spokesperson remarked, that they have “no formal complaint against the [Just Cookies]” and that “embracing diversity means allowing the business owners the right to their opinion and the right to choose how to serve its customers.”
    End Quote

    In other words, they call themselves a diversity group rather than gay, the cupcakes were being made on National Coming Out Day and the group itself says they have no intention of filing a lawsuit or taking any actions because they respect the shop owners decision. In other stories I found linked to this when I found the right keywords to find the story, the group actually says they oppose the actions of others who plan to demonstrate and demand the shop owner be punished or lose his shop... they didn't ask for any of it and support the shopkeeper against those making an issue of this.

    When I made my statements such as coming in acting gay... I clearly did it in an illustrative manner and if they had acted in such a way, the shop owner would have been entitled to refuse service. Most gays do not act like that and every gay person I know actually acts homophobic towards these types to make sure you know they object to it also. So I was referring to a specific group of people rather than all gays or even most gays as your response insinuated and i clearly defined my view.

    Maybe you need to read the story yourself because you did not base your own opinions on the actual facts either... just your views and you didn't even attempt to explain them.
    (more)
  • LilaGra... chaoski... 2010/11/05 13:08:04 (edited)
  • Nick~believe ^MOTOOP^ 2010/11/03 20:45:58
    No, its discrimination!
    Nick~believe ^MOTOOP^
    +2
    I suppose you could do that, but imho, you deserve to lose your business if you discriminate against customers. It's one thing if people are breaking things or disturbing the peace, but just for ordering rainbow coloured cupcakes?
  • Jeremy 2010/11/03 19:02:30
    Undecided...
    Jeremy
    +1
    I certainly don't think it's right to refuse service to gay people. But I don't see how a cupcake order can bring about the topic of one's sexual orientation.
  • LilaGra... Jeremy 2010/11/04 16:24:13
    LilaGrace ~ Proud Liberal
    They phoned in the order and made the mistake of telling them that it was for a gay student group from Indiana University. THAT is how the subject came up, and why he felt justified to refuse to fill the order.
  • Jeremy LilaGra... 2010/11/04 18:48:57
    Jeremy
    Ah, that makes sense now.
  • grok70 2010/11/03 18:51:52
    No, its discrimination!
    grok70
    +1
    You can refuse to serve people for no reason at any time, but you cannot refuse to serve them for that reason.
  • sicksicksick 2010/11/03 18:40:10
    No, its discrimination!
    sicksicksick
    +1
    Not in the least. It's obviously discrimination, but looking at it from a business angle: If you want to run a successful business (especially a small business in this economy) you need to serve all customers. Otherwise, it will not only hurt your sales, but you will most likely be labeled for refusing customers of certain groups service, and people will be less likely to buy your goods.

    You can go ahead and refuse service to whomever you wish, but don't expect to keep your business out of the red.
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