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Curiosity: machine and motive

Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆ 2012/08/06 02:23:54
No accident made man, no more than one made Curiosity.
We're all a great cosmic crapshoot.
Undecided
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Curiosity will be down, one way or another, in a little over three hours after this post.

It's time to reflect on what a marvelous machine Curiosity is. In fact, the intricate instructions that Curiosity must follow, if it's to land intact, are the closest man-made thing to a model of animal behavior.

Here's the scoop: neither that machine nor its instructions came about by accident. Somebody designed both, to the last detail. A lot of other somebodies put Curiosity together and sent it, with its landing instructions, to Mars.

Now then: human beings are orders of magnitude more complex than Curiosity. Wouldn't you say? And even animal behavior is still more complex than those landing instructions must be. A cat can land on all fours from a great height. We still don't know (yet) whether Curiosity will land on all sixes. Animals know instinctively how to land. And human beings know a great deal more.

And anthropologists still insist that human beings, and all their behaviors, came about by accident?

I don't think so!

Read More: http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2012/08/05...

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  • Centrist_Bill 2012/08/17 20:24:05
    Undecided
    Centrist_Bill
    Let me start by saying I am a believer in God. That being said the OP's attempt to make a robot into a God issue is a bit out to lunch.
  • c.stuartHardwick 2012/08/17 04:31:55
    We're all a great cosmic crapshoot.
    c.stuartHardwick
    +4
    The answer choices here demonstrate a child-like lack of understanding of the facts at hand. Evolution is not a crap shoot, it's a process of stochastic feedback. Variation has a random component, but survival is not random at all. Anything that decreases fitness in a given environment is filtered out in a hurry. Anything that increases success is amplified. This really shouldn't be hard to grasp.

    As to how it all got started, do soap suds need a designer? No. Chemical forces cause them to assemble wherever conditions are right. We have discovered about two dozen different precursors for life for which the same is true, including lipid microspheres that replicate and are just a few steps away from simple cells. It's clear now that life is the inevitable byproduct of chemistry wherever conditions allow.

    If you are going to disbelieve something, it's a good idea to understand it first.
  • Leeaqua 2012/08/07 17:20:25
    We're all a great cosmic crapshoot.
    Leeaqua
    +3
    We are all just starstuff as is everything else in our known universe . If there is a supreme being , where was he in Colorado, Wisconsin, Arizona and the other shootemup places . On vacation I suppose ? LOL Get over it, there is no supernatural and never will be. !
  • ☆stillthe12c☆ 2012/08/07 03:29:32
    No accident made man, no more than one made Curiosity.
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    +1
    We were created and not a big accident.
  • Matt 2012/08/07 02:54:14
    No accident made man, no more than one made Curiosity.
    Matt
    +2
    It takes a village ? ? ?

    Mars Landing
  • dallas Matt 2012/08/08 10:00:02 (edited)
  • Bassinman dallas 2012/08/17 18:22:25
    Bassinman
    +1
    You show your idiocy with your comment, which also reflects against a backdrop mirror which is permeated with the mental attitude of a great number of the members of the Democrat Party. Rather than be so childish and call all Republicans 'Idiots', why not at least ACT intelligent and discuss some FUNDAMENTAL TRANSFORMATIONS that would benefit all Americans instead of just the Liberals or just the Conservatives? Or, are you even capable of having an intellectual conversation or debate on a level above 5th grade? In other words, do you feel that you are smarter than a 5th grader? If so, prove it and contribute something usable to everyone on Sodahead and in America! Most of us here would thank you if you did.
  • Nancy~PWCM~JLA~POTL 2012/08/07 00:33:44
    No accident made man, no more than one made Curiosity.
    Nancy~PWCM~JLA~POTL
    +1
    Complex and the fear of the unkown. Evolution verses God and is God in the image of both in some form that has been misinterpretted for the most part. Age old mystery and the creation aspect will never ever be truly analyzed by man
  • Fred Rogers 2012/08/06 22:00:11
    We're all a great cosmic crapshoot.
    Fred Rogers
    +5
    The watchmaker "argument" has been debated for centuries, but the simple fact remains it is logical fallacy. You might find it tagged under hasty generalization or non sequitur depending on how you look at it. The argument is this:

    The Mars rover is complex and had an intelligent designer.
    [Intermediate conclusion: All complex things have an intelligent designer.]
    Humans are complex.
    Therefore, humans have an intelligent designer.

    The conclusion does not follow from the premises with or without the intermediate.

    If you add in the intermediate, it is hasty generalization, proof by example, etc. (there are a lot of names for it). It's like arguing that since my name is Dave and I am tall, all people named Dave are tall. At any rate, it is a very common logical fallacy.

    Without the intermediate, it is non sequitur, which simply means the conclusion doesn't follow. This version would be like arguing that since ice cream tastes good, asphalt tastes good.

    All you can logically conclude is that some things that are complex also have intelligent designers. You cannot say which ones. You cannot say anything about humans given those premises.

    I am not chastising religion. I am not telling you how to feel about anything personally. I really do hope no one takes this comment as an ...
    The watchmaker "argument" has been debated for centuries, but the simple fact remains it is logical fallacy. You might find it tagged under hasty generalization or non sequitur depending on how you look at it. The argument is this:

    The Mars rover is complex and had an intelligent designer.
    [Intermediate conclusion: All complex things have an intelligent designer.]
    Humans are complex.
    Therefore, humans have an intelligent designer.

    The conclusion does not follow from the premises with or without the intermediate.

    If you add in the intermediate, it is hasty generalization, proof by example, etc. (there are a lot of names for it). It's like arguing that since my name is Dave and I am tall, all people named Dave are tall. At any rate, it is a very common logical fallacy.

    Without the intermediate, it is non sequitur, which simply means the conclusion doesn't follow. This version would be like arguing that since ice cream tastes good, asphalt tastes good.

    All you can logically conclude is that some things that are complex also have intelligent designers. You cannot say which ones. You cannot say anything about humans given those premises.

    I am not chastising religion. I am not telling you how to feel about anything personally. I really do hope no one takes this comment as an insult. I am only saying that there is no need to rationalize the irrational; it does both sides injustice. It seems to imply that faith needs rationalizing, and also that rationality can be fudged a little. I don't like either of those predicaments.
    (more)
  • Buoyant... Fred Ro... 2012/08/07 14:22:40
    Buoyant Leadraft
    +2
    Yes i agree. That was quite a leap of logic. When you view everything through god that's what you come up with. Illogical conclusions.
  • Warren ... Fred Ro... 2012/08/17 13:49:39
    Warren - Novus Ordo Seclorum
    Excellent!
  • Bassinman Fred Ro... 2012/08/17 20:00:54
    Bassinman
    +1
    To conclude what you have, you are naturally using 'man's logic to arrive where you have. God's logic (if you want to call His thoughts, logic), is completely different and cannot be understood with a carnal mind, but only with a spititual mind. This is much like not knowing kung fu, but you must discipline your mind and thoughts toward it to become as close to perfect as possible in the art. To receive the spititual knowledge to understand how God actually created all things, you must become disciplined in tha spititual mind of God - or as the the word of God says, "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus" (Php 2:5). It takes a spiritual mind to undrstand spiritual things, no one can understand God (and never will) with a scientific mindset approach. 1 Cor 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." This single verse explains why science cannot understand how God has done, and still does, the things that appear impossible for Him to do. And these scriptures are a reply to man's statement about believers being so stupid to believe in Him: 1 Cor 1:18 "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish, foolishness; but unt...
    To conclude what you have, you are naturally using 'man's logic to arrive where you have. God's logic (if you want to call His thoughts, logic), is completely different and cannot be understood with a carnal mind, but only with a spititual mind. This is much like not knowing kung fu, but you must discipline your mind and thoughts toward it to become as close to perfect as possible in the art. To receive the spititual knowledge to understand how God actually created all things, you must become disciplined in tha spititual mind of God - or as the the word of God says, "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus" (Php 2:5). It takes a spiritual mind to undrstand spiritual things, no one can understand God (and never will) with a scientific mindset approach. 1 Cor 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." This single verse explains why science cannot understand how God has done, and still does, the things that appear impossible for Him to do. And these scriptures are a reply to man's statement about believers being so stupid to believe in Him: 1 Cor 1:18 "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish, foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. Prv 19:3 The foolishness of man perverteth his way: and his heart fretteth against the Lord." These verses explain that man's wisdom (science) is just as foolish to a believer as faith and belief in God is to science. As stated above, spiritual things must be discerned spiritually and will never be understood by science, ever. There must be a change of mind, and heart, before you can understand - like becoming a kung fu master - if you lack legs and arms, you can't qualify to be a karate champion. If you lack spititual discernment, you'll never begin to understand God. It's just that simple. But once you come into the ~Light~ "(Jn 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.)", then you will begin to see things you never imagined.
    (more)
  • Fred Ro... Bassinman 2012/08/17 21:03:37
    Fred Rogers
    What?? Logic is logic. It is not necessary to distinguish between "God's logic" and "man's logic". You can quote scripture and tell me I don't understand all day long, but that is not in any way, shape, or form a use of logic. You are, by definition, not making an argument. You are making a simple assertion. Also, please read the last paragraph of my original comment again. The fact that you felt compelled to reply in this manner just feels perverse and misguided.

    Also, likening your understanding of Christianity to the mysticism that sometimes accompanies the study of kung fu is borderline offensive. You are commandeering the beliefs of Buddhist monks and claiming they justify your own. I don't particularly appreciate that. There are mystic thinkers in the Christian tradition that I would recommend you research. My favorite from antiquity is Pierre Teilhard d' Chardin. A more recent and perhaps more accessible example would be Thomas Merton.
  • Bassinman Fred Ro... 2012/08/19 18:51:06 (edited)
    Bassinman
    +1
    Sometimes an analogy is merely an analogy, so sorry if my reference to an ancient art offended you. Maybe if I had referenced 'study to become a physician' inatead of 'study to become a kung fu master', I would have offended a doctor who was just as prone to seeing things that are not there as you are, ya think? Contrary to popular belief, NOT ALL OF US ARE EITHER CYNICAL OR PREJUDICE - OR BOTH! I was speaking from experience, knowing that ALL BELIEVERS (including myself) started out as non-believers. You don't have to agree with anything I say, but then, I don't have to believe you either. I know that at one time, I felt that Christians were all insane or hypnotized, probably like you do now(?), but I had an experience that was much more than an epiphany, it completely changed my belief 180 degrees. I was trying to explain to you tthat your thoughts (man's carnal mind), are not His thoughts, and that until you have a change (which brings the epiphany), you NEVER WILL understand Him, let alone His existance. Been there, done that. So please tell your Buddhist friends that I didn't mean to dis them, okay? I was just trying to help you understand by using an example you might be able to relate to, but obviously you didn't pick up on it. Hopefully, one day you will. As to 'mystics', you confuse the original Christian with those who have only turned 90 degrees and still hang on to things of the world which Jesus Christ told us to forsake. God bless.
  • Danielle 2012/08/06 20:05:43
    Undecided
    Danielle
    +1
    I don;t know enough about it to decide on eway or another.
  • Theresa 2012/08/06 18:35:50
    No accident made man, no more than one made Curiosity.
    Theresa
    +3
    Humans were created, So was Curiosity.
  • Max 2012/08/06 15:57:32
    No accident made man, no more than one made Curiosity.
    Max
    +2
    While I believe it wasn't an accident, I question WHAT intelligent being injected itself onto Earth.
  • harley oldman 2012/08/06 15:22:23
    No accident made man, no more than one made Curiosity.
    harley oldman
    +1
    Creation made man (No accident).....Evolution turned some men into cosmic crap (man made).
  • Dave0626 2012/08/06 14:58:51
    No accident made man, no more than one made Curiosity.
    Dave0626
    +2
    IF we were an "accident" ....We'd ALL be born with one ear and one eye. But no, we were born with two for a very good reason. ...God's Divine Will and Love for His Creation...

    accident born ear eye born reason gods divine love creation
  • goblue1968 Dave0626 2012/08/11 19:25:09
    goblue1968
    +1
    Nope, we are born with two eyes and two ears because the one-eyed, one-eared humans did not survive the evolution process and became extinct. It must have happened so long ago that we haven't even found fossil evidence of those pre-homo sapiens species.
  • Dave0626 goblue1968 2012/08/11 21:29:49
    Dave0626
    +2
    ...hmmm...I rather doubt that...But then, I can see that happening to Atheists ...it would support their limitations.
  • goblue1968 Dave0626 2012/08/12 17:47:54
    goblue1968
    +1
    I inserted my tongue into my left cheek when I wrote my reply to you above. Which cheek do you prefer to insert your tongue like you did in your reply back?
  • Dave0626 goblue1968 2012/08/12 21:44:13
    Dave0626
    +1
    HO,...HO!....well, being as I don't like anything about the 'Left'....I'll stick to the right side.
  • Temlako... goblue1968 2012/08/12 01:03:04
    Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆
    +2
    I've heard of attempts to thwart the proof of a negative before, but this is the limit.
  • goblue1968 Temlako... 2012/08/12 17:52:10
    goblue1968
    I don't understand your reply to me. What proof of a negative did you think that I was attempting to thwart?
  • Space Invader 2012/08/06 14:19:05
    We're all a great cosmic crapshoot.
    Space Invader
    +2
    clicked wrong button....I think this is great; UNLESS it filmed at a Hollywood lot... capricorn one
  • Temlako... Space I... 2012/08/07 00:07:58
    Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆
    +1
    Yes, I remember...
  • Dwight PWCM 2012/08/06 13:54:09
    No accident made man, no more than one made Curiosity.
    Dwight PWCM
    +3
    Micro-evolution works because all the genes are there to be distributed, re-distributed and re-organized to develope new sub-species.
    Macro-evolution can not explain how the genes came to be in the first place.

    Science can not explain how matter came to be without believing something existed before anything else.
  • iamco2000 2012/08/06 13:51:06
    No accident made man, no more than one made Curiosity.
    iamco2000
    +3
    I'd hardly call God's design an accident.

    Grace to you, Glory to God!
  • Artist~PWCM~ 2012/08/06 12:52:59
    No accident made man, no more than one made Curiosity.
    Artist~PWCM~
    +3
    I agree, we're no accident.
  • hayesml47 2012/08/06 12:35:45
    We're all a great cosmic crapshoot.
    hayesml47
    +2
    If you look at the odds of something controlling our existance then it was a logical evolution that we advanced from. The chances that it was a God or Gods in Heaven that did it are not very good at all. There is an order in the Universe that we have seen for sometime now and it is more likely to be something of a "Mother Nature"ish thing than a religious big human pulling all of our strings!
  • Bassinman hayesml47 2012/08/19 19:44:36
    Bassinman
    +1
    Ahh, but you err in your attempt to discredit. If you are refering to the God of Abraham, known as Jehovah as, 'a religious big human', He is the exact opposite of fallen humanity. He is spirit, not carnality, and until you can understand that you will never understand Him or what He has done.
  • hayesml47 Bassinman 2012/08/19 23:32:48
    hayesml47
    Guess I am just lucky, eh!
  • Bassinman hayesml47 2012/08/20 05:00:13
    Bassinman
    +1
    You could think of it that way, I used to do that myself. And you may be lucky, here on earth. But I wouldn't give a nickel for your chances after you die. I just thank God that my retirement home and living expences have already been paid by Jesus and my soul will live forever. If I'm wrong, and there is no God and no heaven, when I die, what have I lost for my pleasure of knowing that I'm saved? But if there is a God and a heaven, what have you lost when you die? You may want to consider pondering the possibilities of that, someday.
  • hayesml47 Bassinman 2012/08/20 12:56:11
    hayesml47
    I have been considering that all my life and it has come down to, If I live my life as a decent, respectable, and responsible human being I should have nothing to worry about! The "God" you speak of is to unstable for me to believe in at all!
  • Lt. Fred 2012/08/06 11:19:58
    We're all a great cosmic crapshoot.
    Lt. Fred
    +1
    Does everything have to be about evolution? Really? Can't we have a happy thread, where we just celebrate this magnificent success by science- not religious dogma, science?
  • Lt. Fred Lt. Fred 2012/08/06 11:20:26
    Lt. Fred
    +5
    I note that, had the church had its way all those hundreds of years ago, this would never have happened.
  • The Birdman ~ PWCM~JLA 2012/08/06 09:20:39
    No accident made man, no more than one made Curiosity.
    The Birdman ~ PWCM~JLA
    +1
    Very true!
  • Lt. Fred The Bir... 2012/08/06 11:21:05
    Lt. Fred
    Is that what evolution says?
  • Pedro Doller ~Inc. 2012/08/06 07:49:47
    Undecided
    Pedro Doller ~Inc.
    Anybody have any links to any REAL photography. Following the links posted on this blog all I see are computer animations created down the road in Orlando, Buena Vista Disney-world.

    Some real photography would be nice, maybe I missed it on the NASA and Jet Propulsion Lab animations.

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