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Are there disadvantages to affirmative action?

CaptainMorgan 2007/12/27 01:08:55
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And if so, do the disadvantages outweigh the advantages?

For those who may be unfamiliar with the concept of affirmative action, here's an excerpt from Wikipedia that sums it up:

Affirmative action refers to policies intended to promote access to education or employment aimed at a historically socio-politically non-dominant group (typically, minorities or women). Motivation for affirmative action policies is to redress the effects of past and current wrongful discrimination and to encourage public institutions such as universities, hospitals and police forces to be more representative of the population.

This is commonly achieved through targeted recruitment programs, by preferential treatment given to applicants from socio-politically disadvantaged groups and in some cases through the use of quotas.

Opponents of affirmative action policies argue that it is based on collectivism and merely another form of discrimination because it can result in qualified applicants being denied entry to higher education or employment because they belong to a particular social group (usually the historically socio-politically dominant group; typically majority races and men, regardless of social standing or financial need.) Some opponents say that affirmative action devalues the accomplishments of people who are chosen because of the social group they belong to rather than their qualifications.
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  • CaptainMorgan 2007/12/27 01:21:34
    Yes, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. Here's why:
    CaptainMorgan
    +4
    I'll kick things off. I know this is going to be a controversial poll, but I want to know people's honest opinion on this subject.

    I, for one, think that affirmative action is bullshit. Just because you're a minority doesn't mean that you're more qualified for a job. I think that the playing field should be completely even. One should be judged on merit alone.

    These policies, to me, are extremely discriminatory. They discriminate against the majority. Caucasians are at a distinct disadvantage before they walk in the door. That's just as wrong as if an african american had the same disadvantage. Some will say that african americans have this disadvantage because of racists in the workplace, but I don't think that this is as much of an issue as it was 20 years ago. If an employer is racist, I wouldn't want to work for them anyway because they aren't a sufficient manager.

    Some call me a racist for these views, but I honestly don't think I am. Instead of playing the race card, I want to throw out race all together. I'm a woman and I would gladly be accepted on my merit rather than my gender or my appearance. I would rather know that I earned the job fairly and that I'm truly qualified for it.

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Opinions

  • RedRockNv 2009/05/05 00:54:08
    Yes, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. Here's why:
    RedRockNv
    One problem is the way it is administered. Some companies I have encountered think hiring white american males is illegal. Many times I have been told "Why are you applying here we only hire women and minorities" that is reverse discrimination. I have had security called on me when I just walked in to a large manufaacturing business that only hired illegal aliens. Affirmative action makes it legal to discriminate against white American males and that should be illegal but that is the way it has been for the last 40 years.
  • No Name 2008/09/28 21:39:52
  • Chocolat-In the universe I ... 2008/07/08 16:31:01
    No, the affirmative action is extremely advantageous. Here's why:
    Chocolat-In the universe I trust.
  • Anouser 2008/03/08 08:36:11
    None of the above
    Anouser
    +2
    I’m nor an advocate or an adversary for Affirmative Actions; however, America wouldn’t need this if American businesses and educational institutions would hire based on qualifications rather than “who knows who” and racial differences. It doesn’t matter though, because companies and schools are still hiring/enrolling people based on the applicant’s appearance, religion, and other differences which block out the better qualified person. Until this nation as a whole drops the tribal mentality, we won’t see any advancements of equality.
  • 134 2008/01/02 06:59:32
  • Anouser 134 2008/03/08 08:24:49
    Anouser
    +2
    Being female isn't a skin color.

    In fact, white women are the biggest beneficiaries.

    http://aapf.org/focus/episode...
  • 134 Anouser 2008/03/08 22:40:32
  • Anouser 134 2008/03/08 23:28:29
    Anouser
    +2
    True, however, non-white males earn less than white women.
  • No Name Anouser 2008/09/28 21:41:52 (edited)
  • Anouser No Name 2008/09/28 23:40:36
    Anouser
    On what? That white women are benefit the most or that they make more than non-white men and non-white women?
  • No Name Anouser 2008/09/28 23:44:54
  • Anouser No Name 2008/09/28 23:57:41
    Anouser
    I'll have to get back on this.

    Email me so I won't forget.
  • No Name Anouser 2008/09/29 00:44:55
  • RedRockNv 134 2009/05/05 01:01:02
    RedRockNv
    That figuare is 40 years out of date. I have worked next to women in a cannery that made more than I did because they were a women and they could only stack one box per four box tier leaving me to stack 3 out of each 4. In 40 years of working I have never worked a job where a woman doing a similar job make less yet they weren't required to lift more than 20 pounds I was required to lift over a hundred pounds. Same wage and 5 times as much labor at times seems fair doesn't it?
  • Hal 2007/12/29 19:22:29
    Yes, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. Here's why:
    Hal
    It is unnecessary government intrusion into people's lives. Freedom and individual liberty seem to be healthy alternatives. An employer would have to be stupid to hire or disqualify a person based on race. Businesses want the best-qualified people to do the job and skin color has nothing to do with individual job skills.

    Affirmative discrimination is an insult to every qualified "minority" individual in the job market.
  • 20218 2007/12/27 16:39:55
    Undecided
    20218
    +2
    I can see both sides of this debate. On the one hand, without affirmative action the reality of it is that there would still be a work place vastly dominated by white males, an educational system in which white male children would be far more likely to receive the benefits of scholarships and grants than anyone else, it's sad - but it's true. It's a reality of life folks, realize it - accept it - deal with it - but stop living in denial.

    On the other side of the coin, yes, affirmative action HAS caused problems of it's own. It's largest side-effect has been the creation and implementation of many policies that seek to create equality by subtraction. What do I mean by that? I simply mean that it has become the political and idealogical practice in this nation to create equality for those viewed as minorities by simply taking away from those viewed as the majority. This doesn't foster true equality folks, and it's a large reason for much of the resentment that STILL lingers today between race and/or gender based groups.

    If we are ever going to have true equality and rid ourselves of the excuses and catalysts for racial or gender based discriminations and hatred, the first step is to allow ALL the same rights and advantages. ALL. That means no all-white schools just as much as no al...''

    '''

    '''
    I can see both sides of this debate. On the one hand, without affirmative action the reality of it is that there would still be a work place vastly dominated by white males, an educational system in which white male children would be far more likely to receive the benefits of scholarships and grants than anyone else, it's sad - but it's true. It's a reality of life folks, realize it - accept it - deal with it - but stop living in denial.

    On the other side of the coin, yes, affirmative action HAS caused problems of it's own. It's largest side-effect has been the creation and implementation of many policies that seek to create equality by subtraction. What do I mean by that? I simply mean that it has become the political and idealogical practice in this nation to create equality for those viewed as minorities by simply taking away from those viewed as the majority. This doesn't foster true equality folks, and it's a large reason for much of the resentment that STILL lingers today between race and/or gender based groups.

    If we are ever going to have true equality and rid ourselves of the excuses and catalysts for racial or gender based discriminations and hatred, the first step is to allow ALL the same rights and advantages. ALL. That means no all-white schools just as much as no all-black schools. Or - if you want to flip it around that's fine too - if you allow all-black schools, then in order to have true fairness and equality, you should allow all-white schools. Personally, I lean to the no all-anything schools simply because to continue to allow any school to segregate on any basis is to continue to foster the atmosphere of hatred and bigotry. The same applies to organizations for strictly women. Either allow organizations strictly for men as well or don't allow either - again, better to not allow either.

    I realize much of what I've said here is going to stoke the flames within some of you, and that's fine. After all - what good is any serious debate if it doesn't do so? How can we, as a nation, expect to ever accomplish anything without first getting to the emotional core of each and every person to motivate a desire for change?

    Affirmative action had the right intention at heart, I'm not denying that - but as a long term solution it also has it's flaws. It's time to stop trying to be so politically correct and stop worrying about offending others in the process of making things right for all. The more we worry about whom we offend, the more we continue to back down and away from the place we really need to get to.
    (more)
  • RedRockNv 20218 2009/05/05 01:04:37
    RedRockNv
    One reason the country is in the financial trouble it is in is that the most productive segment of society has been aced out of education and jobs in favor of the least productive.
  • GOTHOR the traveler 2007/12/27 06:36:53
    Yes, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. Here's why:
    GOTHOR the traveler
    why force bringing race or gender into a job application/interview. that is just a bad idea for this day and age
  • Derek 2007/12/27 03:13:35 (edited)
  • Anti-Boomer 2007/12/27 02:43:32
    No, the affirmative action is extremely advantageous. Here's why:
    Anti-Boomer
    +1
    Affirmative action forces employers to take a second look at candidates they would normally overlook due to stereotypes, etc. How ever the major disadvantage is that now everyone thinks the success of a minority is as a direct result of affirmative action... and that pisses me off!
  • 134 Anti-Bo... 2008/01/02 07:00:44
  • Anti-Bo... 134 2008/01/02 19:22:02 (edited)
    Anti-Boomer
    "...keep up with the rest of 'US'?"
    Ever considered the reason why you didn't get into a private school was because you're just not as bright as the other white kids who did get into those private schools. Don't flatter yourself but putting yourself into the 'US' category.
    I have never had less than a B+ my entire academic career. That is why I go to a prestigious school. The same is true for most of my friends who are black and hispanic. And those who didn't get into private schools are the making the most of the opportunities they have and at this moment are doing even better than most people who go to private schools.
  • 134 Anti-Bo... 2008/01/03 00:02:00
  • Anti-Bo... 134 2008/01/03 02:43:34
    Anti-Boomer
    +2
    The fact of the matter is, the success of minorities in this country does not rest on affirmative action, and if you think that way, I am sincerely sorry for you because you will continue in your bitterness while the times pass you by.
  • 134 Anti-Bo... 2008/01/03 04:12:32
  • CaptainMorgan 2007/12/27 01:21:34
    Yes, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. Here's why:
    CaptainMorgan
    +4
    I'll kick things off. I know this is going to be a controversial poll, but I want to know people's honest opinion on this subject.

    I, for one, think that affirmative action is bullshit. Just because you're a minority doesn't mean that you're more qualified for a job. I think that the playing field should be completely even. One should be judged on merit alone.

    These policies, to me, are extremely discriminatory. They discriminate against the majority. Caucasians are at a distinct disadvantage before they walk in the door. That's just as wrong as if an african american had the same disadvantage. Some will say that african americans have this disadvantage because of racists in the workplace, but I don't think that this is as much of an issue as it was 20 years ago. If an employer is racist, I wouldn't want to work for them anyway because they aren't a sufficient manager.

    Some call me a racist for these views, but I honestly don't think I am. Instead of playing the race card, I want to throw out race all together. I'm a woman and I would gladly be accepted on my merit rather than my gender or my appearance. I would rather know that I earned the job fairly and that I'm truly qualified for it.
  • Chocola... Captain... 2008/07/08 16:32:45
    Chocolat-In the universe I trust.
    How can the playing field be equal when whites have always had the advantage and priviliege and ethnic have always been disadvantaged and deficient because of slavery, Jim Crow and discrimination?

    Were you hired on your merit or your color?
  • B4Real2Me 2007/12/27 01:16:26
    No, the affirmative action is extremely advantageous. Here's why:
    B4Real2Me
    +2
    No, to keep from sliding back into old ways (out and out blatant discrimination) affirmative action is needed. Affirmative action doesn't give a minority the spot just because they're a minority and not qualified, affirmative action just levels out the playing field. Even with affirmative action discrimination still exist.
  • GOTHOR ... B4Real2Me 2007/12/27 06:43:19
    GOTHOR the traveler
    so your against racial discrimination but religious discrimination is ok? I mean you were all for banning scientology in another poll and I just dont see the difference.
  • B4Real2Me GOTHOR ... 2007/12/27 13:33:52
    B4Real2Me
    +1
    I believe everyone has a right to believe whatever or however they elect to. However, I also believe that it's everyone's responsibility and duty to protect people from groups like Jim Jones and David Koresh. Scientology has been under the radar for years now and apparently Germany stepped up to the plate and have taken actions in the attempt to protect her citizens. Scientology isn't the only faith in question.
  • GOTHOR ... B4Real2Me 2007/12/27 16:53:22
    GOTHOR the traveler
    I dont think any citizens anywhere are in danger from scientologists. I dont think they were in danger of jim jones and david koresh. they are in danger of themselves. I really dont know what you mean by they are under the radar for years now. besides you can add up all the deaths from every little suicide cult and the number of deaths are largely overshadowed by christianity or islam. every religion is valid and should not be discriminated against. if you single them out you open the door to do the same to ethnicities
  • B4Real2Me GOTHOR ... 2007/12/27 21:23:23
    B4Real2Me
    +1
    What I mean by Scientology being under the radar for years is that their organization has been looked into and investigated just like other religions/organizations such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Mormons, Nation of Islam and others. In theology classes around the world Scientology beliefs are not only being studied but also questioned. Not only are theology majors studying and questioning them but so is the IRS and other people in authority.

    Also, I'm not doing anything against Scientology or anyone who elects to practice their faith. I have stated several times that spirituality is an individual choice and I still stand by that.
  • GOTHOR ... B4Real2Me 2007/12/28 04:35:44
    GOTHOR the traveler
    under the radar usually means not being seen. flying under the radar would mean that the plane is invisible. under the microscope is what you meant to say.

    of course they are being questioned in theology class. a theology teacher has to come up with some bs stuff to do to validate their classes existence. there is not many questions to raise about the belief that an ancient alien soul is trapped inside you and is not able to escape because an evil alien put up a force field around earth to trap them in. take it or leave it
  • Hal B4Real2Me 2007/12/29 18:58:02
    Hal
    Wrong. Pure socialism. Get with the way of freedom, girl. Discrimination is part of the human experience. We all have to deal with it, so stop pretending to be a victim. That's straight talk from someone who cares about you.
  • B4Real2Me Hal 2007/12/30 00:32:52
    B4Real2Me
    +1
    Trust me, I'm NO victim.
  • Hal B4Real2Me 2007/12/30 01:59:47
    Hal
    Good for you.
  • Chocola... Hal 2008/07/08 16:35:24
    Chocolat-In the universe I trust.
    Discrimination is an American dis-ease. Here is the straight talk. Blacks have been victimized since slavery and we have overcome each obstacle discrimination and white supremacy continues to put in our path. Trying to make us a continued victim of white supremacy will not hold because you don't want to see the truth of our social system. Don't try to make us feel guilty of injustices because you label us as victims.
  • Hal Chocola... 2008/07/10 01:26:58
    Hal
    Hi, Tresor. I didn't label you as a victim. My apology if you thought that I implied that idea. We live in the greatest country in the history of the world and opportunities abound for all of us. It is a matter of setting goals, working hard and smart, becoming a valuable asset and servant to the needs of others, and reaching our dreams.

    We all have obstacles to overcome and anyone with any sense wants their neighbor to be successful. I love to see great success stories of those who have attained great personal and/or financial success. I don't make an issue of my race. I am an individual who takes responsibility for myself and for my family. I do not look to the government to rip off someone else in order to give me benefits. It's all about freedom, a free market system, and self-reliance.
  • Chocola... Hal 2008/07/10 02:05:15
    Chocolat-In the universe I trust.
    Apology accepted. My question to you is why when issues of racism, inequalities, and injustices to blacks and other minorities we are subjected to the speech about being victims, not taking responsibility, government subsidizes/assistance or hand outs. Do you realize you do this? Is it out of habit or perceived stereotypes.

    Although few blacks overcome the obstacles that does not imply the obstacles do not exist. It is a free country, but blacks have only been free for 40 years.
  • RedRockNv B4Real2Me 2009/05/05 01:09:06
    RedRockNv
    Yes discrimination exists against the white male problem is we didn't have any advantages from the past that was people in the past.

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