Question World

Why does the Catholic Church only push the abortion issue when denying Communion to politicians who vote against the church's teaching?

Bob™ the Union Ironworker November 23, 2009 15:19:56

As a Catholic, I can understand the Church's position it is taking with Patrick Kennedy. I don't think they should use the sacraments to move a political agenda. Mr. Kennedy did not have an abortion or perform an abortion but that is the Bishops choice. But the Catholic Church has always opposed the death penalty. Why aren't they withholding communion from politicians that pursue this? They are opposed to war and the Pope has called the Iraq War an unjust War, why are the Conservative War mongers allow to go to communion? The church also supports Universal Health Care even as far as saying illegal aliens should be included? How many Republican Catholic Lawmakers voted against the health care bills?

I say we write the National Conference of Bishops and ask that these Republican Conservatives be denied Communion until they vote right on health care and the death penalty. With the hyde ammendment no federal money has gone for abortion since the 70's nor will it ever. Yet Federal money is used for capital punishment. Here is a list of Catholics in Congress and as the Party of no you know how they will vote on a final health care bill.

Senate Republicans: Sam Brownback, Kansas; Jim Bunning, Kentucky; Susan Collins, Maine; Mike Johanns, Nebraska; Mel Martinez, Florida; Lisa Murkowski, Alaska; Jim Risch, Idaho; David Vitter, Louisiana; and George Voinovich, Ohio.



House Republicans: Steve Austria, Ohio; Brian P. Bilbray, California; John Boehner, Ohio; Kevin Brady, Texas; Ginny Brown-Waite, Florida; David Camp, Michigan; Anh "Joseph" Cao, Louisiana; Michael N. Castle, Delaware; Lincoln Diaz-Balart, Florida; Mario Diaz-Balart, Florida; Jeff Fortenberry, Nebraska; Virginia Foxx, North Carolina; Phil Gingrey, Georgia; Walter B. Jones, North Carolina; Peter T. King, New York; Steve King, Iowa; Leonard Lance, New Jersey; and Bob Latta, Ohio.

Also, Frank A. LoBiondo, New Jersey; Blaine Luetkemeyer, Missouri; Daniel E. Lungren, California; Connie Mack IV, Florida; Michael T. McCaul, Texas; Thaddeus G. McCotter, Michigan; Patrick T. McHenry, North Carolina; John M. McHugh, New York; Tim Murphy, Pennsylvania; Devin Nunes, California; George Radanovich, California; Tom Rooney, Florida; Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Florida; Edward R. Royce, California; Paul Ryan, Wisconsin; Steve Scalise, Louisiana; Jean Schmidt, Ohio; Christopher H. Smith, New Jersey; John Sullivan, Oklahoma; and Patrick J. Tiberi, Ohio.

Read more: http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/bishop-asked...

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  • Whitese7en "by JESUS blood ... November 29, 2009 02:11:00
    Whitese7en "by JESUS blood I am redeemed"
    I'm not Catholic but my first wife was Catholic prior to becoming born-again. I'm pretty sure that abortion is now and always has been "pushed".
  • +1
    kevracer November 25, 2009 01:18:06
    kevracer
    My question is this: would the Catholic Church withhold Communion to this man if his name was Patrick Joseph?? I think not......
  • +1
    La Bef November 25, 2009 00:19:59
    La Bef
    I am going to guess that you are a craddle Catholic and have not been to our church in a long time. Abortion issue is "pushed" in almost every Catholic mass every Sunday in every Catholic church. We pray for the murdered babies and are reminded how genocide is being committed every day in our Country. The church has the right and responsibility to inflict her morals and beliefs in her members. Membership is not mandatory. We are always welcome to switch to other denominations. But, since the Catholic church is NOT a democracy, if you want to belong you abide by her rules. That simple.
  • Byzanti... La Bef November 25, 2009 00:30:02
    Byzantine_Catholic
    AMEN!!!
  • Bob™ th... La Bef November 25, 2009 05:36:50
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker
    you guess wrong
  • -sasman- November 24, 2009 21:59:51 (edited)
    -sasman-
    I love Papal Infallibility...
    -----------------------------...
    In the beginning Man created God; and in the image of Man created he him.

    And Man gave unto God a multitude of names, that he might be Lord over all the earth when it suited Man.

    And on the seven millionth day, Man rested and did lean heavily on his God and saw that it was good.

    And man formed Aqualung of the dust of the ground and a host of others likened unto his kind.

    And these lesser men, Man did cast into the void. And some were burned and some were put apart from their kind.

    And Man became the God that he had created and with his miracles did rule over all the earth.

    But as all these things did come to pass, the Spirit that did cause man to create his God lived on within all men; even within Aqualung.

    And man saw it not... But for Christ's sake he'd better start looking... Ian Anderson aka Jethro Tull
  • Byzanti... -sasman- November 25, 2009 00:31:04 (edited)
    Byzantine_Catholic
    >I love Papal Infallibility...

    Do you even understand what "Papal Infallibility" means and where its applied?

    NOTE: sasman is acoward..blocks me cause he is clueless on the subject
  • -sasman- Byzanti... November 25, 2009 03:27:59
    -sasman-
    Yep! You?
  • +1
    AlofRI -sasman- November 25, 2009 14:34:36
    AlofRI
    ....and MAN wrote the Bible by "translating" ANCIENT languages, scrolls, tablets, etc. to the best of his ability. Of course, just like now, the translations had to be cleared by the Christian hierarchy of the time, and the text had to project the meaning "they" felt was the "Word of God". Nothing has changed....except the world.
  • Nate November 24, 2009 19:26:28
    Nate
    If you don't follow the dictates of the Vatican you are not a Catholic - plain and simple.
  • EagleEye November 24, 2009 18:17:27
    EagleEye
    ........Let me explain this to you very simply......
    ....................RELIGION IS POLITICS...........the two can't be separated, never was and never will be! explain simply religion politics separated

    Maybe this chart will help you understand why Religion needs politics and its implied power to survive.
  • +2
    moethegrass November 24, 2009 16:04:21
    moethegrass
    The catholic chuch tries so hard time to thrust back the clock to ancient times where illiterates, stupidity, superstition and ignorance abounded-so much for the leaders of this great institution.

    The church was never a source of enlightenment for all its scholarship. It is at the fore-front of thwarting advances in religion, science, the humanities.

    The Church is run by mere mortals standing on documents, which have collected some much dust and debris it still clouds church thinking to this day.

    Its voice has diminshed as the secular world advances and the church cries to its adherents to abide by principles no long able to withstand the torrent of ideas emanating outside of its control.
  • Spizzzo November 24, 2009 13:52:35
    Spizzzo
    I am not Catholic, so I have no opinion.
  • +1
    Patriotic American November 24, 2009 13:44:05
    Patriotic American
    I don't know, but they should lose their tax exempt status and they should have to fund the raising of at least the children born due to a lack of birth control that the church opposes as well!
  • +2
    sue November 24, 2009 11:43:03
    sue
    Well, I guess it's for the same reason divorced people aren't allowed to remarry, but they'll push pedophile priest all around the country protecting them from the law.

    I hope they lose their nonprofit status. This is worse than lobbying.
  • +2
    Demongirl1960 November 24, 2009 09:42:42
    Demongirl1960
    Because THAT is what "the big 3" are all about! MEN CONTROLLING WOMEN! **facepalm**
  • +1
    Rose for Equal Pay November 24, 2009 08:53:48
    Rose for Equal Pay
    Umm....the word I'm looking for starts with an H. I suggest we get our "stones" ready, because it seems like EVERYONE is without sin.

    I'll be honest, I don't go to church as often as I should. It's because I'm very picky about who I allow to be my shepherd. All shepherds aren't "chosen." Some are even wolves in SHEPERDS clothing. But this past Sunday, the minister spoke on the purpose of the church. I must say, I completely agreed with him. The purpose of the church is to go out and preach the gospel to bring people to Christ/God, to save souls. I hate to see ANY religious figure use their influence to bully people and for political grand standing.
  • +2
    Rose fo... Rose fo... November 24, 2009 08:55:06
    Rose for Equal Pay
    Now if they'd only fight hunger and homelessness with the same vigor.
  • +1
    petean05 Rose fo... November 24, 2009 16:05:29
    petean05
    In some parts of the world they do. That is one of the only reasons I liked the Catholic Church when I was a Catholic.
  • Byzantine_Catholic November 24, 2009 06:51:11
    Byzantine_Catholic
    > But the Catholic Church has always opposed the death penalty.

    Absolutely NOT true

    "Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty"

    http://www.vatican.va/archive...
  • Bob™ th... Byzanti... November 24, 2009 13:32:03
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker
    THEY DO NOW.
  • +1
    Byzanti... Bob™ th... November 24, 2009 14:21:33
    Byzantine_Catholic
    The teaching is that there are better alternatives today....unlike abortion which IS ALWAYS wrong
  • +1
    Bob™ th... Byzanti... November 24, 2009 14:22:42
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker
    No the stand is it is wrong and immoral
  • +1
    Byzanti... Bob™ th... November 24, 2009 14:26:42
    Byzantine_Catholic
    take 5 minutes and read the link to the Vatican explaining the teaching Before commenting on what you THINK the Church teaches

    http://www.vatican.va/archive...
  • Bob™ th... Byzanti... November 24, 2009 14:34:24
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker
    death penalty:pro and con

    The Pope's Statement


    While the vast majority of U.S. Catholics support capital punishment, Pope John Paul II has declared the Church's near total opposition to the death penalty. In his encyclical "Evangelium Vitae" (The Gospel of Life) issued March 25, 1995 after four years of consultations with the world's Roman Catholic bishops, John Paul II wrote that execution is only appropriate "in cases of absolute necessity, in other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society. Today, however, as a result of steady immprovement in the organization of the penal system, such cases are very rare, if not practically nonexistent." Until this encyclical, the death penalty was viewed as sometimes permissible as a means of protecting society. The universal catechism--book of rules--for Catholics had affirmed the right of the state to punish criminals with appropriate penalties "not excluding in cases of extreme gravity, the death penalty."

    From Para. 56 of Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life), an encyclical letter on various threats to human life which Pope John Paul II issued on March 25, 1995.

    "This is the context in which to place the problem of the death penalty. On this matter there is a growing tendency, both in the Church and ...
    death penalty:pro and con

    The Pope's Statement


    While the vast majority of U.S. Catholics support capital punishment, Pope John Paul II has declared the Church's near total opposition to the death penalty. In his encyclical "Evangelium Vitae" (The Gospel of Life) issued March 25, 1995 after four years of consultations with the world's Roman Catholic bishops, John Paul II wrote that execution is only appropriate "in cases of absolute necessity, in other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society. Today, however, as a result of steady immprovement in the organization of the penal system, such cases are very rare, if not practically nonexistent." Until this encyclical, the death penalty was viewed as sometimes permissible as a means of protecting society. The universal catechism--book of rules--for Catholics had affirmed the right of the state to punish criminals with appropriate penalties "not excluding in cases of extreme gravity, the death penalty."

    From Para. 56 of Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life), an encyclical letter on various threats to human life which Pope John Paul II issued on March 25, 1995.

    "This is the context in which to place the problem of the death penalty. On this matter there is a growing tendency, both in the Church and in civil society, to demand that it be applied in a very limited way or even that it be abolished completely. The problem must be viewed in the context of a system of penal justice ever more in line with human dignity and thus, in the end, with God's plan for man and society. The primary purpose of the punishment which society inflicts is "to redress the disorder caused by the offence."(46) Public authority must redress the violation of personal and social rights by imposing on the offender an adequate punishment for the crime, as a condition for the offender to regain the exercise of his or her freedom. In this way authority also fulfills the purpose of defending public order and ensuring people's safety, while at the same time offering the offender an incentive and help to change his or her behaviour and be rehabilitated.(47)

    It is clear that, for these purposes to be achieved, the nature and extent of the punishment must be carefully evaluated and decided upon, and ought not go to the extreme of executing the offender except in cases of absolute necessity: in other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society. Today however, as a result of steady improvements in the organization of the penal system, such cases are very rare, if not practically non-existent.

    In any event, the principle set forth in the new Catechism of the Catholic Church remains valid: 'If bloodless means are sufficient to defend human lives against an aggressor and to protect public order and the safety of persons, public authority must limit itself to such means, because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.'
    (more)
  • Byzanti... Bob™ th... November 24, 2009 14:40:19
    Byzantine_Catholic
    Exactly.. A far cry from what you stated in your question.

    Abortion has always been morally wrong no matter what the circumstance unlike the Death penalty
  • Bob™ th... Byzanti... November 24, 2009 14:59:19
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker
    nit pick much. Give me a break.
  • Byzanti... Bob™ th... November 24, 2009 21:53:58
    Byzantine_Catholic
    only when you properly state church teachings..

    I go back to your original mis-information " But the Catholic Church has always opposed the death penalty. "

    clearly untrue, even to the most undereducated
  • +1
    AlofRI Byzanti... November 24, 2009 15:20:19 (edited)
    AlofRI
    NO! Abortion saved my first wife's life! (for a while, at least) THAT was NOT wrong! She meant more to ME, our two girls, and all her friends than did this undeveloped "person" that no one knew! Sorry to put it that way, but many people refuse to face reality on this subject, including the Catholic doctor who was willing that she die! The doctor that delivered my wife at birth gave her an illegal abortion to save her life. Do I think he was punished now that he too is gone? Not if there is a just GOD!

    I feel everyone should follow their own beliefs. If you don't believe in abortion, don't do it! But, don't chastise people who NEED another CHOICE! Don't impose your "holier than thou" message on all. Die if you want, but if you want to live...that should be your CHOICE!

    I raved you just because I would like you to see this, and think about it. Not because I agree with you. (At least the latter half of your statement
  • Byzanti... AlofRI November 24, 2009 22:01:02
    Byzantine_Catholic
    Sure there are cases where an abortion is required to save the mother ( such as ectopic pregnancy ) where there is no chance to save the baby and the mother has the greater chance of survival but that is extremely rare but that is not the norm. For elective abortions the baby has the same rights as the mother even if "no one knows him" (God does)
  • Pele Emerging November 24, 2009 03:55:52
    Pele Emerging
    Of course they shouldn't do it. Sometimes, it's irresistible, even for a church, which should be above such things, to play politics.
  • Karen Ward November 24, 2009 02:46:54
    Karen Ward
    they're all a bunch of backwards nuts..to not get caught up to the 2000's is the Church's own eventual end...
  • +1
    Bushit November 24, 2009 00:15:36
    Bushit

    How else do you become the wealthiest principality ever on the face of the Earth?
  • +1
    Bushit Bushit November 24, 2009 00:16:07
    Bushit
    Did I just answer a question with a question? Why, yes I did.
  • +2
    brotherplease November 24, 2009 00:06:53
    brotherplease
    Hi Bob - I stopped trying to figure out the Catholic church a long time ago. My question here is why on earth would anyone or Patrick Kennedy even want to be a Catholic today? I would be embarrassed to be a Catholic today. I left that silliness behind me. I enjoy many teachings from many faiths and Catholicism is not one of the most intelligent religions as far as I can tell.
  • +4
    Rachel251 brother... November 24, 2009 02:06:17
    Rachel251
    No one should be embarrassed to be a Catholic. Shame on you. You demonstrated your spiritual poverty quite nicely.
  • +1
    brother... Rachel251 November 24, 2009 02:09:15
    brotherplease
    well you keep drinking the kool-aid... uh I mean blood - transubstantiation ..riiiighhht.
  • +4
    Rachel251 brother... November 24, 2009 02:18:35
    Rachel251
    Gladly.
  • +1
    NotWith... Rachel251 November 24, 2009 07:27:06
    NotWithoutAFight
    I think the catholics will get along just fine without 'im.
  • seathanaich November 23, 2009 22:45:50
    seathanaich
    Hi Bob.

    Because this is the "thin end of the wedge"

    If you let people break one rule, they might dare to break others. Or question the need for the religion at all, when they notice that others live decent, worthwhile, loving lives without it. Cheers.
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