Blogs CarbonMike's

The Af-Pak War: What Winning Or Losing Means (Part 1)

Not long ago, friend and fellow Sodahead Legion posted the question: Does America have Inexhaustible Military Might?

An interesting discussion ensued. Many of the answers and comments expressed the notion that Iraq was -- and Afghanistan is -- a useless and/or unwinnable war and the less time spent even trying to win it, the better. I hear that sentiment a lot from my friends on the left.

I’m a liberal and, aside from being a politics junkie, a defense/national security geek. So I enjoy researching this stuff, as well as thinking and writing about it. But beyond that, I have a personal interest here. Several of my friends and former students are servicepeople who have done tours in that region. One promising young filmmaker from Denmark who worked with me on his short film will soon deploy to Afghanistan as part of the NATO coalition force.

And some time ago I reconnected with a very close friend of mine and found out that her younger brother was KIA in Iraq in 2006. Petty Officer 2nd Class Edward Austin Koth was a Navy EOD specialist (Explosive Ordnance Disposal), attached to a Ranger team running around Baghdad neutralizing IED’s. One of them went off while he was attempting to defuse it. He joined EOD because he wanted to be a badass but also
wanted to do a job where he was only saving lives and not taking them.

I’m not claiming any special knowledge of the situation beyond what I can glean from the same sources everyone else has access to, nor am I claiming any enhanced moral standing to talk about these issues. I’ve just come to believe that no matter where we stand we’ve got an obligation to think deeply and rigorously about these matters, because the highest-ranking job in a democratic republic is Citizen -- and decisions on war and peace are part of the job.

The question of America’s military might and how far it goes is a good starting point (thanks Legion). Of course nothing is truly inexhaustible, but given who we’re fighting, our assets might as well be, because whatever we think about the merits of our military involvement in Iraq or Afghanistan-Pakistan, our adversaries there can’t beat us in a straight squad-level firefight. We know it and, more importantly, they know it; that’s why in Iraq they chose to melt into the background and use remote-controlled bombs as terror weapons instead. The limiting factor in these wars is political will, not combat mass, and the political will to fight these wars is not inexhaustible; in fact, it’s in seriously short supply.

Vietnam is an overused and not entirely helpful analogy that’s often applied to the Af-Pak war, but it is worthwhile to note that during our involvement in Vietnam there was an event called the Tet Offensive. A naive reading of history says that this was a turning point in the war, but that is not exactly true; at least, not in the way you might think.

The Vietcong launched coordinated attacks against our forces on multiple fronts across the entire theater of war during the holiday Tet, which marked the Vietnamese lunar new year and was also a declared cease-fire. What is less well known is that the VC got their asses handed to them in every single battle during the offensive (though the fighting was intense and protracted -- lasting up to two months -- at Hue and Khe Sanh). The military reality of the war changed not at all during or after Tet; what changed was American political impetus to fight it.

Running out of political will to fight a counterinsurgency war is not that much of a problem in Iraq, because that war is winding down -- but it’s a huge problem in Af-Pak, because whatever your concept of “winning” is, that’s a war we’d better not lose -- for the simple reason that Taliban/ Al Qaeda forces in Afghanistan are actively trying to stage a rolling invasion of Pakistan, which they can’t be permitted to do.

The predictable response from my fellow lefties is: who the hell do we think we are to tell people which countries they’re “permitted” to invade? It’s actually a very good question. The answer I’ve come up with is, it doesn’t matter who we think we are, because a plausible endgame here is a bunch of millennialist crazies hijacking the security apparatus of a nuclear-armed state. If that happens, the best case scenario is that worldwide nuclear nonproliferation efforts get a big smoking hole blown in them: a number of Pakistan’s warheads could disappear into the hands of people who have no qualms about using them AND are undeterrable because they’re not state-based.

Worst case is that some of them figure out a way to launch one at India (remember that the Taliban / AQ have a big quasi-religious beef with India over Kashmir) and all hell breaks loose on the Indian subcontinent, in which case half a billion people could die in an afternoon. This scenario doesn’t threaten us directly because nothing in Pakistan’s missile arsenal has the range to reach us -- but no responsible world leader is going to let something like that happen on his watch if he can help it.

That’s why all the right-wing noise about Obama “dithering” is just that: noise. I guarantee you these are the scenarios they’re wargaming in the White House and the Pentagon. They can’t afford to get this wrong, but there are precious few -- if any -- ways to get it right.

Now even though my beloved fellow lefties are often guilty of torturing the Vietnam analogy, they make a valid point when they recall the faulty geopolitical rationales used to justify increasing involvement in Vietnam. Students of history will remember Kissinger and others talking about a Communist “domino effect”. It’s perfectly reasonable, given that history, to call into question the nuclear dominoes AfPak hawks like me cite as the reason we need to finish the fight in a decisive way. So in Part 2 of this post I’ll try to explain why I think this scenario is more credible than the faulty ones that were used to sell Vietnam to the American people.

I’ll also talk a bit about Pakistan’s military infrastructure -- their nuclear arsenal in particular -- and why thinking about it keeps American military planners awake nights.
You!
Add Photos & Videos
Sort By
  • Most Raves
  • Least Raves
  • Oldest
  • Newest
Comments
  • Michele November 12, 2009 02:02:26
    Michele
    Good post interesting points.
  • ggaitherii November 11, 2009 17:48:44
    ggaitherii
    Good post. President Obama rightly called this a war of necessity based on the 9/11 attacks and the volatility in Pakistan. Lefties should keep in mind that some people can't be reasoned with and force is the only option.
  • Brian Kemp November 10, 2009 14:37:21
    Brian Kemp
    As always, well thought out and presented.
  • +1 raves
    rightside November 08, 2009 00:35:04
    rightside
    We didn't know the atrocities that were going on in Germany, but we entered into war for fairly good reasons.
    When I see the same revelations coming from iraq and afghanistan, I am feeling better about our invasion.
    I believe these terrorists could use WMD at the drop of a hat. I don't know what could put them over the top.
    Wars are very disturbing. I don't think anyone enters in lightly. I think these decisions are agonized over for hours and days.
    I am praying that obama makes the right decision.
  • Joseph E. Bowker, CMSgt, US... November 07, 2009 17:33:59
    Joseph E. Bowker, CMSgt, USAF (Ret)
    I am uncertain that we will ever win in Afghanistan, and I am unprepared to turn my country into a third world spent empire like so many others that thought the Afghans would be an easy victory. They will win just like the Vietnamese won facing us, the biggest, baddest most modern military in the world. Unbeknown to many Americans, we (I am a Disabled 2 time, Vietnam Vet) never lost a serious battle in Vietnam, but we lost the war. We lost because we were fighting where we had nothing but a belief in an ideology that just wasn't accurate, and because we Americans could never win the hearts and minds of the People, we were supposedly there to help.
    We are in the exact same position in Afghanistan where there is no way we will ever understand a people who want to live in the 16th Century, dress their wives in a burka, and not wanting to educate their daughters. To make matters worse, Bush really screwed up the momentum of that war. We had the enemy in Tora-Tora, but he lost Focus, went to Iraq, where he believed there would be more 'things' to win. His bosses, the Oil CEOs got him (us) to denationalize the Iraqi Oil Fields, and Exon/Esso got to get 51% of the Iraqis Oil in the Stock Market. Criminal, but for Afghanistan, the Taliban and the Al Qeada got to slip away, and reg...
    I am uncertain that we will ever win in Afghanistan, and I am unprepared to turn my country into a third world spent empire like so many others that thought the Afghans would be an easy victory. They will win just like the Vietnamese won facing us, the biggest, baddest most modern military in the world. Unbeknown to many Americans, we (I am a Disabled 2 time, Vietnam Vet) never lost a serious battle in Vietnam, but we lost the war. We lost because we were fighting where we had nothing but a belief in an ideology that just wasn't accurate, and because we Americans could never win the hearts and minds of the People, we were supposedly there to help.
    We are in the exact same position in Afghanistan where there is no way we will ever understand a people who want to live in the 16th Century, dress their wives in a burka, and not wanting to educate their daughters. To make matters worse, Bush really screwed up the momentum of that war. We had the enemy in Tora-Tora, but he lost Focus, went to Iraq, where he believed there would be more 'things' to win. His bosses, the Oil CEOs got him (us) to denationalize the Iraqi Oil Fields, and Exon/Esso got to get 51% of the Iraqis Oil in the Stock Market. Criminal, but for Afghanistan, the Taliban and the Al Qeada got to slip away, and regroup. Now, we are fighting the Taliban, not Al Qeada. That means we are fighting Afghanistan's Civil-Religious war. WE HAVE NO BUSINESS DOING THAT.
    We are forbidden by international law to go after our enemies in Pakistan. I am for bombing the afghanistans civil-religious war business forbidden international law enemies pakistan bombing Tribal Areas of Pakistan into the Stone Age, but never putting a boot on Pakistani Soil. Let them clear out the World-wide Terrorist, or feel our wrath too. But that ain't gonna happen, and it is a good thing that I don't get to make up the rules for America. Our President is smarter than me, and more analytical, with better information, so I will let it up to him, within reason.
    (more)
  • +1 raves
    sue November 07, 2009 14:13:02
    sue
    Excellent and thought provoking post, as usual. My favorite part: " no matter where we stand we’ve got an obligation to think deeply and rigorously about these matters, because the highest-ranking job in a democratic republic is Citizen -- and decisions on war and peace are part of the job."

    I think there is no one military engagement of the past that can be a comparison with the Afghanistan-Pakistan entanglement. It is useful to think about American Revolutionary War: the colonials only won two significant battles. But all the home force has to do to win against an invading force is stay alive. For an invading force to win, you have to kill or capture every member of the home force. Usually the political will of the invading force doesn't last long enough.

    The other thing to remember is that Afghanistan/Pakistan is not Iraq. There is a reason to want to contain Al Qaeda: they post a danger to the rest of the world, and the rest of the world agrees on this. This is why forces from other countries make up 40% of the international forces in Afghanistan, and made up a relatively small percentage of forces in Iraq. We could have international support on this, if we want it.

    I don't know whether the Taliban should be the enemy or just Al Qaeda, but I know that we would have ...
    Excellent and thought provoking post, as usual. My favorite part: " no matter where we stand we’ve got an obligation to think deeply and rigorously about these matters, because the highest-ranking job in a democratic republic is Citizen -- and decisions on war and peace are part of the job."

    I think there is no one military engagement of the past that can be a comparison with the Afghanistan-Pakistan entanglement. It is useful to think about American Revolutionary War: the colonials only won two significant battles. But all the home force has to do to win against an invading force is stay alive. For an invading force to win, you have to kill or capture every member of the home force. Usually the political will of the invading force doesn't last long enough.

    The other thing to remember is that Afghanistan/Pakistan is not Iraq. There is a reason to want to contain Al Qaeda: they post a danger to the rest of the world, and the rest of the world agrees on this. This is why forces from other countries make up 40% of the international forces in Afghanistan, and made up a relatively small percentage of forces in Iraq. We could have international support on this, if we want it.

    I don't know whether the Taliban should be the enemy or just Al Qaeda, but I know that we would have to make it a multi-lateral effort with nation building in order for anything to remain as we leave it for more than 5 minutes after we've left. It would be great to think we could get it over with quickly, but the problems are complex and we will be there with development assistance and possibly military support for a long time. I opposed the Iraq war, but this Al qaeda thing has to get done, and it has to be done multilaterally
    (more)
  • Joseph ... sue November 07, 2009 17:31:10
    Joseph E. Bowker, CMSgt, USAF (Ret)
    Interesting theories here. I never considered it in light of the American Revolution, but you are correct in you thoughts in my humble position. But, ....

About Me

CarbonMike

CarbonMike

United States

October 18, 2009 18:52:37

writing Python code

View complete profile

or
Cancel