Question World

Is Christianity Good For the World?

jt November 27, 2009 19:49:21

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2008/December/Is-Christianit...

What is truth? What is goodness and beauty?

These questions and more are addressed in a special CBN News debate between two men with very different answers.

Christopher Hitchens is a journalist who has written for magazines such as Vanity Fair, The Atlantic, the Nation, and Slate. He also the author of several best-selling books, including God is not Great.

Hitchens describes himself not so much as an atheist, but an "anti-theist." He explains more about that in the program.
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  • Running Wolf December 09, 2009 18:20:41
    Running Wolf
    Its greeeaaaaaaaaatttttt
  • princess December 06, 2009 05:00:28
    princess
    Absolutely....I believe its necessary for the world.
  • Triple D December 04, 2009 23:09:52
    Triple D
    Christianity is fine. It's the Christians that are the problem.
  • ShahnazRoxs(: December 04, 2009 23:08:14
    ShahnazRoxs(:
    Yes!
  • lclon December 03, 2009 03:24:12
    lclon
    Christianity is a religion based on Christ and His teaching. If the whole world was made up of christian people, there would be no wars, people would love others, and sin would not be so prevalence. Sin would still be in this world because Satan is the god of this world. But people would not be so quick to yield to Satan temptations. they would be worshipping and praising God. God is love and they that worship him must worship him in Spirit and in Truth.
  • FREED ♥ It's All About Jesus December 01, 2009 17:00:04
    FREED ♥ It's All About Jesus
    Yes, Christianity brought moral standards; without a long list in Genesis we learn that music, iron work, etc. all came from God - there is nothing made unless made by Him. Every good and perfect gift comes from Him.
  • seathan... FREED ♥... December 07, 2009 18:39:53
    seathanaich
    If that's the case, then so does every bad thing. Yahweh does, after all, take credit for all evil as well as for all good. Cheers.
  • FREED ♥... seathan... December 07, 2009 19:43:33
    FREED ♥ It's All About Jesus
    Won't debate with you seathan since we've been there before.
  • seathan... FREED ♥... December 07, 2009 20:24:05
    seathanaich
    If we have, sorry to repeat. Cheers!
  • FREED ♥... seathan... December 07, 2009 21:26:40
    FREED ♥ It's All About Jesus
    okay
  • +1
    seathan... FREED ♥... December 07, 2009 22:24:50 (edited)
    seathanaich
    Hi Freed. You can edit or add to your posts, so you don't have to post two, by pushing the small "edit" word to the upper right. Cheers.
  • FREED ♥... seathan... December 07, 2009 23:20:40
    FREED ♥ It's All About Jesus
    Ah, I see what I did. Thanks!
  • FREED ♥... seathan... December 07, 2009 21:27:08
    FREED ♥ It's All About Jesus
    Blessings!
  • Running... seathan... December 09, 2009 18:21:56
    Running Wolf
    Bad things are our fault
  • seathan... Running... December 10, 2009 00:03:56
    seathanaich
    Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
  • Jo December 01, 2009 04:41:04
    Jo
    The people who ask that question are ignorant of history.
  • +1
    seathan... Jo December 02, 2009 00:06:48
    seathanaich
    How so?
  • Jo seathan... December 02, 2009 02:25:50
    Jo
    Just study medieval history, how Europe grew into a civilization from the collapse of the Roman Empire and the barbarian domination that followed.
  • seathan... Jo December 02, 2009 17:52:38
    seathanaich
    And while doing so, note that the Christian heirarchy opposed the growth of knowledge at every opportunity? I'm quite familiar with medieval European history. The history of both freedom and economic growth in Europe is largely defined by struggles against religious authority and against Christian dogma and doctrine. The time when Christianity ruled is called The Dark Ages for good reason. Cheers.
  • Jo seathan... December 02, 2009 22:40:10
    Jo
    Not quite -- how do you explain the preservation of Greek and Roman philosophy and knowledge by the Catholic Church in monasteries? St. Anselm and St, Thomas Aquinas incorporated Greek philosophy into theology, and it was the Catholic Church that founded universities throughout Europe, and it was in Christian Europe that modern science had its greatest advances, and many of those scientists were Catholic priests like Nicholas Copernicus and Gregor Mendel.
  • seathan... Jo December 03, 2009 18:20:17
    seathanaich
    "how do you explain the preservation of Greek and Roman philosophy and knowledge by the Catholic Church in monasteries?"

    How do you explain the systematic destruction of writings they disagreed with, like those hypothesising atomic structure? You know, all the stuff they destroyed, and we only got access to when we translated it from Arabic?

    If you know your great "Christian" thinkers, then you know how unorthodox many were, to the point of being rather rebellious and even anti-religious in what they did and thought.

    "it was in Christian Europe that modern science had its greatest advances,"

    Coincidence, and usually accomplished in the face of active opposition from the church on vital topics like heliocentrality, germ theory, evolution, etc.
  • Jo seathan... December 03, 2009 20:44:07
    Jo
    Can you please provide evidence of "systematic destruction" of things they "disagreed" with? How do you explain the survival of Plato's works when some of his philosophical ideas were not accepted by the Church but rather Aristotle's? And not all of Aristotle's ideas were accepted, but the ones that were true were incorporated by theologians like St. Thomas Aquinas, who was very heavily influenced by Aristotelian philosophy. Not all the great Christian thinkers were unorthodox. Here's one you can look up -- Matteo Ricci, a Jesuit priest and missionary to China. He was orthodox, and he was also extremely well educated. The Church was not opposed to heliocentricity because Nicholas Copernicus proposed that theory before Galileo, but he proposed it as a theory not insisting it be presented as fact (as Galileo did, which is what got him into trouble) because the scientific instruments necessary to PROVE heliocentricity hadn't been invented yet.

    Here's a link to an article you can read http://www.lewrockwell.com/wo... , and I also recommend a book "Those Terrible Middle Ages!" by Regine Pernoud.

    I majored in history at the University of Texas at Austin, and I took medieval history from a decidedly anti-Christian professor, yet what I learned in that class was that the Catholic ...
    Can you please provide evidence of "systematic destruction" of things they "disagreed" with? How do you explain the survival of Plato's works when some of his philosophical ideas were not accepted by the Church but rather Aristotle's? And not all of Aristotle's ideas were accepted, but the ones that were true were incorporated by theologians like St. Thomas Aquinas, who was very heavily influenced by Aristotelian philosophy. Not all the great Christian thinkers were unorthodox. Here's one you can look up -- Matteo Ricci, a Jesuit priest and missionary to China. He was orthodox, and he was also extremely well educated. The Church was not opposed to heliocentricity because Nicholas Copernicus proposed that theory before Galileo, but he proposed it as a theory not insisting it be presented as fact (as Galileo did, which is what got him into trouble) because the scientific instruments necessary to PROVE heliocentricity hadn't been invented yet.

    Here's a link to an article you can read http://www.lewrockwell.com/wo... , and I also recommend a book "Those Terrible Middle Ages!" by Regine Pernoud.

    I majored in history at the University of Texas at Austin, and I took medieval history from a decidedly anti-Christian professor, yet what I learned in that class was that the Catholic Church preserved the knowledge of the Greeks and Romans, founded universities and hospitals, encouraged the development of art and architecture, etc. In short, it built European civilization. Maybe you should study history from a more objective point of view.
    (more)
  • seathan... Jo December 04, 2009 19:14:45 (edited)
    seathanaich
    Hi Jo.

    "Can you please provide evidence of "systematic destruction" of things they "disagreed" with?"

    Read a bit more about the period, and the role the Christian church had in doing so. It sounds like you have an interest in history, so read about the role of the Chrisitan church in the suppression of knowledge. It's not like I have an unusual opinion on this. The church's role is hunting down any Greek writing on "atomism" is well known. Only one copy of "De Rerum Natura (The Nature of Things)" survived the censors of the church. Some might call that a "miracle". The greatest book burnings in history were done in the 4th Century, when Christianity achieved power in the Roman Empire. This isn't a secret, it's well-known and widely documented.

    Like you, I don't type out or photocopy every book I read just to answer future internet requests for documentation. It's unreasonable to expect people to do so for every situation.

    "How do you explain the survival of Plato's works when some of his philosophical ideas were not accepted by the Church but rather Aristotle's?"

    Obviously their attempts at censorship failed in some cases. Many which existed beyond the reach of Christianity survived.

    "And not all of Aristotle's ideas were accepted, but the ones that were true"

    "T...
    Hi Jo.

    "Can you please provide evidence of "systematic destruction" of things they "disagreed" with?"

    Read a bit more about the period, and the role the Christian church had in doing so. It sounds like you have an interest in history, so read about the role of the Chrisitan church in the suppression of knowledge. It's not like I have an unusual opinion on this. The church's role is hunting down any Greek writing on "atomism" is well known. Only one copy of "De Rerum Natura (The Nature of Things)" survived the censors of the church. Some might call that a "miracle". The greatest book burnings in history were done in the 4th Century, when Christianity achieved power in the Roman Empire. This isn't a secret, it's well-known and widely documented.

    Like you, I don't type out or photocopy every book I read just to answer future internet requests for documentation. It's unreasonable to expect people to do so for every situation.

    "How do you explain the survival of Plato's works when some of his philosophical ideas were not accepted by the Church but rather Aristotle's?"

    Obviously their attempts at censorship failed in some cases. Many which existed beyond the reach of Christianity survived.

    "And not all of Aristotle's ideas were accepted, but the ones that were true"

    "True" and "true in my opinion" do not necessarily mean the same thing.

    "Not all the great Christian thinkers were unorthodox."

    I didn't claim they all were

    "but he proposed it as a theory not insisting it be presented as fact"

    You obviously don't know what "theory" means, so I will help you. I hope this is helpful:

    Fact: something we can observe or measure.
    Hypothesis: proposed explanation of how a bunch of facts fit together. Some hypotheses fail. Those that don't graduate to the status of . . .
    Theory: a hypothesis which has proven to work, and to successfully predict. There is no single instance in which it fails to work when tested. If it does, it becomes a failed hypothesis.

    People who don't understand what these words mean often think that a "fact" is higher than a theory. It is precisely the opposite. A theory is the highest level that a scientific explanation can be.

    Scientific theories are both fact and explanation.

    There is no university class on "Atomic Fact". Chemists learn "Atomic Theory". We study "Germ Theory" in medical departments, the "Theory of Gravity" in physics departments, and "Plate Tectonic Theory" in Geology departments. The Theory of Evolution will never "graduate" into the Fact of Evolution. It is already fact.

    "Maybe you should study history from a more objective point of view."

    That's great advice. I find that most people who are religious are unable to follow it, because they are unable to suspend their emotional attachment to their religion when studying, or even discussing, anything to do with it. Cheers.
    (more)
  • Jo seathan... December 04, 2009 20:39:33
    Jo
    Like I said, I studied medieval, renaissance/early modern history at a secular university from a secular professor, and I never heard what you're saying.
  • +1
    seathan... Jo December 04, 2009 23:09:10
    seathanaich
    Hi Jo.

    Then feel free to delve back into it.

    I find it odd talking about "secular" universities or profs, because that's what all universities and profs should be. Mine was, but that's the norm in Canada.

    I took Medieval History (I think it was 130), in first year of my History degree. After that I took a few 200 level medieval history courses. The one on Celtic and Anglo-Saxon Britain was amazing. I must say, I think I should have done a more practical degree, and just read history on the side. Oh well.

    Learning doesn't end when you leave university!
  • Jo seathan... December 05, 2009 04:02:03
    Jo
    No, it doesn't. I'd say I've learned more on my own, especially about history :-)
  • +1
    seathan... Jo December 07, 2009 18:37:44
    seathanaich
    I agree. I've read some books (Iike Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel") that are better (and cheaper!) than any course I ever took. Cheers!
  • Zozo December 01, 2009 03:05:19
    Zozo
    DAMN SKIPPY, IT IS! What's not to love, about the LOVE OF CHRIST?
  • seathan... Zozo December 02, 2009 00:07:16
    seathanaich
    Being threatened with eternal torture for not obeying him, I would think.
  • Avadot November 29, 2009 20:12:59
    Avadot
    in my opinion christianity is the creator of us and eventually it will truly be our destroyer
  • +1
    beebabeeba Avadot November 30, 2009 08:36:52
    beebabeeba
    How did Christianity create us? Christianity has only been around for the last 2,000 years. Human history goes much farther back than that.
  • +1
    KARA~American Patriot November 29, 2009 17:58:39
    KARA~American Patriot
    Christianity is good as long as it does not turn people into extremists who feel that they are better then everyone who does not believe as they do. Religious revolutionary extremists created 9-11. Examples of revolutionaries are Reverend Wright , Jim Jones, and Bill Ayers. extremists created 9-11 examples revolutionaries reverend wright jim jones ayers
    extremists created 9-11 examples revolutionaries reverend wright jim jones ayers
  • +2
    Whitese7en "by JESUS blood ... November 29, 2009 00:56:11
    Whitese7en "by JESUS blood I am redeemed"
    Without question!! Without Christianity, evil would run amok.
  • seathan... Whitese... December 02, 2009 00:07:51
    seathanaich
    Like in Japan? Or Sweden?
  • Whitese... seathan... December 02, 2009 07:29:33
    Whitese7en "by JESUS blood I am redeemed"
    There are Christians in both of those nations.
  • seathan... Whitese... December 02, 2009 17:53:50 (edited)
    seathanaich
    Irrelevant. I'm sure there are one or two Christians standing on Antarctica right now. Or in Tunisia. Or in Singapore. Christianity made zero contribution to either society.

    As to my examples, one is a nation in which Christianity has and had zero role in the development of the society (Japan), and the other is a nation in which the collapse of Christianity has been shown to be an irrelevant faction in the society (Sweden).
  • Whitese... seathan... December 03, 2009 03:49:43
    Whitese7en "by JESUS blood I am redeemed"
    It doesn't matter that there aren't many there, what matters, is that there are Christians in both of those nations. Btw, the reason that it isn't growing as rapidly in Sweden, is because the government in Sweden is not allowing it to grow there.

    My point, which is that without the influence of Christianity evil would run amok, is still valid.

  • seathan... Whitese... December 03, 2009 18:21:53
    seathanaich
    "it isn't growing as rapidly in Sweden, is because the government in Sweden is not allowing it to grow there."

    What nonsense. Christianity is dying (not growing) in Europe, North America, and Aus/NZ, and it's not because of government conspiracies. It's because of tolerance and education.
  • Whitese... seathan... December 03, 2009 18:48:54
    Whitese7en "by JESUS blood I am redeemed"
    These are links to articles which detail some of the measures that have been taken by the government in the last few years which are helping to kill Christianity in Sweden. Pastors are being told what they can and can not say from the pulpit. There is no freedom of speech in Sweden, if one is an evangelical pastor that is. If that is the type of "tolerance and education" you're referring to, you can keep it.

    http://www.christianitytoday....

    http://www.christianitytoday....

    http://www.christianitytoday....

    http://www.christianitytoday....
  • seathan... Whitese... December 03, 2009 19:31:22
    seathanaich
    The first issue in these sources is that there's an internal power struggle in this church. Big deal. This fundamentalist US publication is siding with the fundamentalist minority within a larger church dominated by moderates. That's no surprise. But pretending they are being repressed is nonsensical. They are free to break away from the major denomination if they want to.

    The second issue is easy to fix too - if you don't want state money, then opt out of state standards and schools. Again, big deal.

    And in the third issue, Christians are upset that they are losing the "right" to hate gays. Again, I'm not sure that saddens me.

    And let's look at this in the context of Swedish society. Christians there are now down to about 15% of the population. Immigration is increasing. So it seems logical to me that setting precedents for Christianity in Sweden is very important, so those same standards can be enforced on Islam. I'd like to read about these issues from a neutral source though, not from one as biased as this one is. Cheers.
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