Question US
WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THE MATH ON THE CASH FOR CLUNKERS PROGRAM FOR THE CONSUMER. WHO'S THE WINNER HERE?
Hula girl November 01, 2009 08:05:51
- 49 answers
- Read all 143 comments
- +33 raves
If you traded in a clunker worth $3500, you get $4500 off for an
apparent "savings" of $1000.
However, you have to pay taxes on the $4500 come April 15th (something
that no auto dealer will tell you). If you are in the 30% tax bracket,
you will pay $1350 on that $4500.
So, rather than save $1000, you actually pay an extra $350 to the feds.
In addition, you traded in a car that was most likely paid for. Now you
have 4 or 5 years of payments on a car that you did not need, that was
costing you less to run than the payments that you will now be making.
But wait, it gets even better: you also got ripped off by the dealer.
For example, every dealer in LA was selling the Ford Focus with all the
goodies including A/C, auto transmission, power windows, etc for $12,500
the month before the "cash for clunkers" program started.
When "cash for clunkers" came along, they stopped discounting them and
instead sold them at the list price of $15,500. So, you paid $3000 more
than you would have the month before. (Honda, Toyota, and Kia played
the same list price game that Ford and Chevy did).
So lets do the final tally here:
You traded in a car worth: $3500
You got a discount of: $4500 ( And not everyone got 4500...many got a lot less)
---------
Net so far +$1000
But you have to pay: $1350 in taxes on the $4500
--------
Net so far: -$350
And you paid: $3000 more than the car was selling
for the month before
----------
Net -$3350
We could also add in the additional taxes (sales tax, state tax, etc.)
on the extra $3000 that you paid for the car, along with the 5 years of
interest on the car loan but lets just stop here.
So who actually made out on the deal? The feds collected taxes on the
car along with taxes on the $4500 they "gave" you. The car dealers made
an extra $3000 or more on every car they sold along with the kickbacks
from the manufacturers and the loan companies. The manufacturers got to
dump lots of cars they could not give away the month before. And the
poor stupid consumer got saddled with even more debt that they cannot
afford.
Obama and his band of merry men convinced Joe consumer that he was
getting $4500 in "free" money from the "government" when in fact Joe was
giving away his $3500 car and paying an additional $3350 for the
privilege.
-------------------
Lets not forget all those cars that were destroyed and now can't be sold as used cars and the used car dealers now will suffer, the consumer that doesn't buy a new car will suffer, the young people and the people that can't afford a new car can't get a used car now they will suffer.
What kind of government program will bail them out next? Is this what the Obama administration meant about sharing the wealth? If this were the Republicans being this foolish you would calling helping the big corporations. What do you call it liberals.....stimulating the economy.
OH OH OH AND THE BEST PART IS THIS ALL THE TAX PAYERS IN THE USA GOT SADDLED WITH AN ADDITIONAL I HEAR THE NUMBER IS 3 BILLION DOLLARS IN MONEY ADDED TO OUR NATIONAL DEBT NOW LETS ADD THE MILLIONS IN INTEREST THAT WE HAVE TO PAY THE CHINESE.
YEP, THOSE DEMOCRATS SURE KNOW HOW TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY FOLKS.
AND YOU WANT THEM TO TAKE CARE OF HEALTH CARE.....REALLY?
apparent "savings" of $1000.
However, you have to pay taxes on the $4500 come April 15th (something
that no auto dealer will tell you). If you are in the 30% tax bracket,
you will pay $1350 on that $4500.
So, rather than save $1000, you actually pay an extra $350 to the feds.
In addition, you traded in a car that was most likely paid for. Now you
have 4 or 5 years of payments on a car that you did not need, that was
costing you less to run than the payments that you will now be making.
But wait, it gets even better: you also got ripped off by the dealer.
For example, every dealer in LA was selling the Ford Focus with all the
goodies including A/C, auto transmission, power windows, etc for $12,500
the month before the "cash for clunkers" program started.
When "cash for clunkers" came along, they stopped discounting them and
instead sold them at the list price of $15,500. So, you paid $3000 more
than you would have the month before. (Honda, Toyota, and Kia played
the same list price game that Ford and Chevy did).
So lets do the final tally here:
You traded in a car worth: $3500
You got a discount of: $4500 ( And not everyone got 4500...many got a lot less)
---------
Net so far +$1000
But you have to pay: $1350 in taxes on the $4500
--------
Net so far: -$350
And you paid: $3000 more than the car was selling
for the month before
----------
Net -$3350
We could also add in the additional taxes (sales tax, state tax, etc.)
on the extra $3000 that you paid for the car, along with the 5 years of
interest on the car loan but lets just stop here.
So who actually made out on the deal? The feds collected taxes on the
car along with taxes on the $4500 they "gave" you. The car dealers made
an extra $3000 or more on every car they sold along with the kickbacks
from the manufacturers and the loan companies. The manufacturers got to
dump lots of cars they could not give away the month before. And the
poor stupid consumer got saddled with even more debt that they cannot
afford.
Obama and his band of merry men convinced Joe consumer that he was
getting $4500 in "free" money from the "government" when in fact Joe was
giving away his $3500 car and paying an additional $3350 for the
privilege.
-------------------
Lets not forget all those cars that were destroyed and now can't be sold as used cars and the used car dealers now will suffer, the consumer that doesn't buy a new car will suffer, the young people and the people that can't afford a new car can't get a used car now they will suffer.
What kind of government program will bail them out next? Is this what the Obama administration meant about sharing the wealth? If this were the Republicans being this foolish you would calling helping the big corporations. What do you call it liberals.....stimulating the economy.
OH OH OH AND THE BEST PART IS THIS ALL THE TAX PAYERS IN THE USA GOT SADDLED WITH AN ADDITIONAL I HEAR THE NUMBER IS 3 BILLION DOLLARS IN MONEY ADDED TO OUR NATIONAL DEBT NOW LETS ADD THE MILLIONS IN INTEREST THAT WE HAVE TO PAY THE CHINESE.
YEP, THOSE DEMOCRATS SURE KNOW HOW TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY FOLKS.
AND YOU WANT THEM TO TAKE CARE OF HEALTH CARE.....REALLY?
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Top Comment
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OBAMA WILL CONTINUE TO FIND WAYS TO SCREW THE AMERICAN PROPLE. OBAMA IS THE REAL CLUNKER AMERICANS NEED TO GET RID OF.View thread
Hot on SodaHead
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BUT, at least obammie kept his union thugs working for a few extra months.
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None of the above
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We just did on a smaller scale what got us into this mess in the first place. First we put people in houses that they could not afford, now we put people in a car that many could not afford. I see another bailout comming in a few months when people can't make the payments on all of these new cars that they just bought, and once again the financially responsible will get the shaft.
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The way I see it, everyone got a little bonus in the deal. Despite the fact that these people now CHOSE to have car payments, they also now have a vehicle with better gas mileage AND a warranty. It is likely that they will pay significantly less in maintenance and fuel for the next 5-10 years, also saving them time and hassle if/when something were to go wrong on their clunker. Plus, it was entirely their choice to buy a new car. It wasn't mandatory.
And the auto dealerships were suffering, hurting for money... Cash for Clunkers boosted their business significantly. (I blame the people who buy foreign cars for the dealership bailouts. People have no integrity.)
It is not the government's fault that the auto dealerships raised their prices for the program. I can only see that as the consumer's own fault if they got duped into paying more. It's essential to do some research before making a large purchase.
But, tell me more about the cars being destroyed and the increased debt. Apparently there is more to this that I am not seeing.
I want to add that I am not discounting what you are saying, I am respectfully asking for more information, while sharing my point of view. I have no intention of arguing or fighting; just information, opinion sharing, and possibly a respectful debate.
The part of the program that pissed me off most was the destruction of all of those cars that were turned in. They could not be resold or sent to a junkyard and have parts sold, they had to be crushed. To me this is a waste because many of these cars were still great for someone for a local shitkicker or a kids first car. Even if they were not roadworthy their parts were good for someone who needed to keep their old car running longer. I hate waste!
Thank you for the respectful reply.
Worse, the lack of old used cars creates a short in the market and poorer people will have a harder time finding one they can afford. But that is the plan, to get rid of ALL old cars and have us all driving euromobiles.
I guess it's alright for you to pay more taxes for everyone to have a new car that we all paid $24,000 each so they could have a new car. Better enjoy paying taxes or maybe wake up and see what the government really is doing.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/st...
If didn't stimulate the economy for all the car that won't sell this month or the next or the next because there is no one walking in the doors.
Of the cars that were sold only 120,000 were cars that were not going to be purchased otherwise yet over 600,000 were destroyed. Those cars would have been sold again or the parts resold and used to fix cars still on the road.
Then there is all the steel that we lost because Obama sold those smashed cars to China. They got our better steel and we got nothing but debt.
The people lost money....the numbers don't lie even if you choose not to accept them. The tax payers are saddled with 3 Billion plus the hundreds of millions in Interest.
Facts are the facts. The environment will see absolutely not an once of difference.
Gore has already been proven in a court of law that there are 9 major problems in his movie that are outright lies yet the government still pushes the agenda and if Al Gore were really concerned he wouldn't be jetting t...
If didn't stimulate the economy for all the car that won't sell this month or the next or the next because there is no one walking in the doors.
Of the cars that were sold only 120,000 were cars that were not going to be purchased otherwise yet over 600,000 were destroyed. Those cars would have been sold again or the parts resold and used to fix cars still on the road.
Then there is all the steel that we lost because Obama sold those smashed cars to China. They got our better steel and we got nothing but debt.
The people lost money....the numbers don't lie even if you choose not to accept them. The tax payers are saddled with 3 Billion plus the hundreds of millions in Interest.
Facts are the facts. The environment will see absolutely not an once of difference.
Gore has already been proven in a court of law that there are 9 major problems in his movie that are outright lies yet the government still pushes the agenda and if Al Gore were really concerned he wouldn't be jetting to every meeting he goes to in his private huge jet. Yes, that's a fact as he stoke at our meeting we had in Canada and flies everywhere in his jet.
Its okay though, I didn't expect YOU to be nice to me.
There is no need to insult my ignorance when I am clearly ASKING questions so I CAN understand. Instead of answering my questions you just insult me, then finally answer my questions while insulting me more.
How is anyone supposed to learn if you expect them to know it all already?
Maybe you should take your rightful place as a know-it-all and help to EDUCATE people instead of just berating them for not knowing?
This is the most stressful time in America than we've had in decades...even with 9/11. We really are on the verge of losing our country. No, that is no joke. If you want to honestly learn we can provide you so much information but it has to be honest desire.
We are constantly bombarded with this blind following of this administration to the detriment of the whole country's safety.
This isn't a joke. This is crisis time. America has to make a decision.
We are so close in years to losing our countries AAA credit rating that just 6 months ago the prediction was 10 years before we lost it. With all the spending since Obama came in which does include all those programs the prediction of losing our credit rating is now 3 -4 years and it could go down more in the next few months if we don't wise up as a country.
Do you know what a credit rating for a country means? If America loses it's AAA credit rating we...
This is the most stressful time in America than we've had in decades...even with 9/11. We really are on the verge of losing our country. No, that is no joke. If you want to honestly learn we can provide you so much information but it has to be honest desire.
We are constantly bombarded with this blind following of this administration to the detriment of the whole country's safety.
This isn't a joke. This is crisis time. America has to make a decision.
We are so close in years to losing our countries AAA credit rating that just 6 months ago the prediction was 10 years before we lost it. With all the spending since Obama came in which does include all those programs the prediction of losing our credit rating is now 3 -4 years and it could go down more in the next few months if we don't wise up as a country.
Do you know what a credit rating for a country means? If America loses it's AAA credit rating we are sunk as a country. Now if that sounds dire it is. The Soviet Union fell and was transformed because of it's financial crisis. Iceland fell in 24 hours last year to a once comfortable thriving country to a country that McDonald's is now closing all locations because they can't afford to even get the packaging materials delivered because the costs would be prohibited.
Do you know about Nigeria and their money? Nigeria's money is virtually worthless. It's like monopoly money and that's how close we are here in America to having the same thing.
That's the plan though. Obama and his administration is on an honest track of working towards a one world government and those radicals in his administration are helping him tear this country apart as fast as they can.
Do you know we are losing our freedoms of speech.
We are losing our financial institutions to the point all our money will be controlled by the government.
Do you know that Obama's new regulatory agency will dictate everything the banks will do......everything. Banks are private businesses. Do you know they plan on closing all non bank financial institutions...according to Barney Frank just last week?
This is your life. Our lives. This is your future and we are honestly caring enough about it to spend night and day getting others to wake up and when we see stubborn denial then it's beyond frustrating. You just what to take them by the shoulder and shake them up and say wake up because it's right in front of your nose if you are paying attention. Too many people are just going about their lives and thinking that it can't happen to America but it's been the plan of the leftist liberals for a long long time. I can take you back to the 1920's, 30's 40's when text books started to change and our history was rewritten in our history books at school.
I can show you the drastic change since 1963.
The history of this country that the kids aren't learning in school today should outrage you and everyone else.
It's been moving in a direction but this year since Obama and the liberal Congress it's been fast tracked to their agenda that it's staggering.
Why do you think so many people are waking up? Because they are starting to see what really is happening and what it is going to cost them.
I will not have a debate with someone who twists my words and assumes my intentions. THAT is what I was saying was disrespectful.