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Will the recent Supreme court decisions regarding Obamacare backfire for the Liberals in this election year?

PEEPL 2012/07/02 01:53:47
Yes it might backfire on the Liberals
No it won't backfire on the Liberals
Other (details)
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Here's three reasons why it might.
(1) When asked the former Chair of the President's Council of Economic Advisors, Austan Goolsbee, if the individual mandate in Obamacare amounted to a tax. He denied it.
(However, the Supreme Court just determined the individual mandate is a tax.)
President Obama
promised over and over again he would not raise taxes on the middle
class, yet the individual mandate is just one of 22 new tax increases in
Obamacare amounting to a $569.2 billion tax hike.
http://insurancenewsnet.com/article.aspx?id=348350&type;=news...
(2) The Supreme Court ruling has increased the amount of donations for the Romney campaign.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/election-2012/romney-campaign...
(3) The Supreme court decision has energized the grass roots support of the Tea Party Movement.
http://www.rollcall.com/issues/57_160/Health-Care-Ruling-Re-E...
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  • Mr. T 2012/07/02 01:59:16
    Yes it might backfire on the Liberals
    Mr. T
    +17
    GOP adds are already being aired how Obama just raised taxes on the middle class, you know, the ones who usually vote the president into office after telling us he would not raise taxes on the middle class one cent. Yes...his ass is grass and the middle class are the lawnmowers.

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  • J.W. Ho... Centuri... 2012/07/03 16:19:47
    J.W. Howler
    +3
    Thanks!
  • Centuri... J.W. Ho... 2012/07/03 16:27:45
    Centurion~PWCM~JLA
    +3
    I thought that you might like that.

    Please let me introduce you to Sigrid und Marina;


  • J.W. Ho... Centuri... 2012/07/03 16:58:01
    J.W. Howler
    +3
    Too bad "The Lawrence Welk Show" is no longer running...They would have been a shoo-in!
  • Centuri... J.W. Ho... 2012/07/03 17:06:53
    Centurion~PWCM~JLA
    +3
    I would like to see such talent in our country. When stationed in Germany, I tended to watch German television as much as AFN. I actually preferred German programming at some parts of the year. My German girlfriend called this "German Country Music." I miss being able to watch it on television but am delighted to have found it in youtube.

    I would like to be stationed in Germany again. If so, maybe I'll probably record it for later watching. While I have some VHS tapes from those days, my VCR which worked on German frequencies is now kaput and parts are nearly impossible to find.

    You may have noticed the setting where this was recorded within a live audience. I'd like to attend one of the shows right there on the floor with them.
  • J.W. Ho... Centuri... 2012/07/03 17:08:11
    J.W. Howler
    +3
    " I'd like to attend one of the shows right there on the floor with them."

    So would I.
  • Ken 2012/07/02 13:20:27
    Other (details)
    Ken
    The supreme court decision will make healthcare an issue in the 2012 election. It means Romney will either need to distance his most significant legislative accomplish as governor or differentiate Massachusetts' mandatory health care coverage from Obama's health care plan. The latter will be difficult because Obama's health care plan is based on Massachusetts' plan. So it would seem the intellectual debate between the two candidates will come out a wash.

    Since most of the healthcare plan, other than a few popular provisions, has yet to be implemented, Romney will need to scare the people about the provisions yet to be come. Scaring people about the unknown is relatively easy and Republicans have proven particularly effective at scaring the American people since 9/11. Similarly Obama will need to convince Americans that Romney, on day 1, will cancel the implemented provisions, provisions the public likes; that the remaining provisions aren't as bad as Romney wants them to think.

    Romney's campaign objective appears to be energizing his base while increasing the apathy of the middle. Since the health care debate is likely to help energize the base on both sides, he will take up this debate if he believes his base is bigger than Obama's. Obama's campaign strategy appear...
    The supreme court decision will make healthcare an issue in the 2012 election. It means Romney will either need to distance his most significant legislative accomplish as governor or differentiate Massachusetts' mandatory health care coverage from Obama's health care plan. The latter will be difficult because Obama's health care plan is based on Massachusetts' plan. So it would seem the intellectual debate between the two candidates will come out a wash.

    Since most of the healthcare plan, other than a few popular provisions, has yet to be implemented, Romney will need to scare the people about the provisions yet to be come. Scaring people about the unknown is relatively easy and Republicans have proven particularly effective at scaring the American people since 9/11. Similarly Obama will need to convince Americans that Romney, on day 1, will cancel the implemented provisions, provisions the public likes; that the remaining provisions aren't as bad as Romney wants them to think.

    Romney's campaign objective appears to be energizing his base while increasing the apathy of the middle. Since the health care debate is likely to help energize the base on both sides, he will take up this debate if he believes his base is bigger than Obama's. Obama's campaign strategy appears to be an attempt to energize the middle by delivering hope for the future. The healthcare debate seems like an ideal platform for both these strategies. Now we will see which is a better strategist. What do you think, can a strategy of fear defeat a message of hope?
    (more)
  • LarryFine 2012/07/02 12:50:56
    Yes it might backfire on the Liberals
    LarryFine
    +4
    In 2008 we were told that some 5 to 6% of the population was without insurance and these were the unfortunates that were unable to afford health insurance. Health care was reformed and now we are told it is designed to penalize deadbeats who freeload at the expense of those who pay their own way. Do I think it's going to backfire on this clown; Hell yes!
  • zapped 2012/07/02 05:11:11
    Yes it might backfire on the Liberals
    zapped
    +4
    one can only hope !
  • Wolfman 2012/07/02 05:10:15
    Yes it might backfire on the Liberals
    Wolfman
    +5
    It will absolutely backfire. 73% of Independents want Obamacare repealed. http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfr...
  • ScottyG... Wolfman 2012/07/02 18:27:37
    ScottyG - Faqueue
    +2
    I love that post. I've been using it too! Great job Wolfman.
  • Wulfdane 2012/07/02 05:06:06 (edited)
    Other (details)
    Wulfdane
    +3
    We won't know the effect for another couple months, when the ruling has settled in.
  • Pedro Doller ~POTL-PWCM~JLA 2012/07/02 04:59:44
    Yes it might backfire on the Liberals
    Pedro Doller ~POTL-PWCM~JLA
    +4
    It might help in the elections, the Senate needs to be Changed, the 0 will appoint new justices so he needs the boot.

    As far as 0-care. The bill in it's entirety needs to be repealed. Don't fall for that fixing it crap. The bill permeates everything. A new bill can be debated but not fixing this bill. It will take decades to repair everything from this bill. It's like a hard boiled egg, you just can't heat it up and melt it back to it's original state. Justie Roberts didn't do anybody any favors (except maybe the 0).
  • Mopeder 2012/07/02 04:01:03
    No it won't backfire on the Liberals
    Mopeder
  • littleb... Mopeder 2012/07/02 04:11:38
    littlebuffalo55TBA
    +4
    Mo....Middle Class People are now being invoiced $110k for a Hysterectomy! I am middle class and am lucky my employer pays for very good PPO coverage. But recently he made the decision that single employees like me will pay much in co-pays vs. those with families. the increase is over 38%.

    Call it what you want but this plan does NOT control costs it merely shifts them and much of it to working Middle Class people!
  • JCD aka... littleb... 2012/07/02 08:57:45
    JCD aka "biz"
    +1
    One hundred and ten thousand dollars for a hysterectomy!!! No wonder your health care system is the most expensive in the world!
  • littleb... JCD aka... 2012/07/02 11:53:40
    littlebuffalo55TBA
    +2
    No kidding!
  • Jeremiah JCD aka... 2012/07/02 17:05:47
    Jeremiah
    +3
    We wish we had one like yours.
  • Jeremiah littleb... 2012/07/02 17:05:09
    Jeremiah
    +3
    That is because most of the law is not yet in effect. Your figures for the hysterectomy show how out-of-control our costs have become, and how badly needed ACA has become.
  • littleb... Jeremiah 2012/07/03 00:27:58
    littlebuffalo55TBA
    +1
    And the this Bill will not cure that! Look I want reform that works not the bill that passed! Look at Japans system everyone is covered. Prices are controlled by the government. Your employer pays 4% you pay 4 1/2. Of course this is much more affordable for them as 4% unemployment is enough fot them to scuttle a government. They recently fired one because of debt! They do all this at less than 10% of their GDP. As of now we spend over 15% and it's climbing and we don't even cover everyone. Their life expectancy exceeds ours by 5 years!

    That's what I want. But beyond that I want a patients Bill of Rights. Things like say for me. I am soon to be 57. I am healthy and still able to be athletic. Suppose I (Knock on wood!) tear up a knee or shoulder? I don't have the time to wait 12 months for the surgery and 6 month to a year for recovery!

    Why is it this plan does not have in it a way to get more physicians into the system?
    Does the way we do it now need reform? Yes! Does this plan achieve that? Nope! And it won't until we do other things to rectify our economy!
  • Jeremiah littleb... 2012/07/03 15:56:44
    Jeremiah
    You want more doctors? Tell the medical schools to loosen up the admissions quotas. They are artificially manipulating the number of doctors available, so the existing ones can command higher fees.
  • littleb... Jeremiah 2012/07/03 17:07:54
    littlebuffalo55TBA
    +1
    I realize I have a young family member entering med school as we speak.
  • Jeremiah littleb... 2012/07/04 20:57:53
    Jeremiah
    +1
    Good for him or her. That will add one more doctor. We need many more.
  • littleb... Jeremiah 2012/07/04 22:25:32
    littlebuffalo55TBA
    +1
    Thanks....and I agree we need more!
  • Cyan9 2012/07/02 03:55:45
    No it won't backfire on the Liberals
    Cyan9
    +1
    A penalty and a tax have always been the same thing. It's semantics. It's as equally absurd to pretend that the revenue the individual mandate will generate is somehow a completely death crushing tax on the middle class. First off, this only affects those without insurance and will affect only 2-5% of the population. Furthermore it's an elective tax such as any other excise tax. Lastly the tax burden of the mandate is extremely low: For the year 2014, an annual tax of $95, or up to 1% of income, whichever is greater that will rise to $695, or 2.5% of income, by 2016. Exemptions to the tax in cases of financial hardship or religious beliefs are permitted.
  • JCD aka... Cyan9 2012/07/02 08:58:47
    JCD aka "biz"
    Thank you for this interesting information.
  • voice_matters 2012/07/02 02:46:17
    Other (details)
    voice_matters
    libby can you explain to me how does the constitution saying a law is constitutional backfire on any political group?
  • Prairie Wind 2012/07/02 02:40:05 (edited)
    Yes it might backfire on the Liberals
    Prairie Wind
    +7
    Edited ...

    Basically our Government of "Separation of Powers" has got together and rammed it through each branch of Government by fraud!

    Now that we have a Dictatorship and no Constitution, why do we need a Supreme Court? By the same token, since we haven't had a Congressional Budget for three and a half years, why do we need a Congressional Budget Office (CBO)?

    However, regarding Obama Care, you're thinking short term. This ruling legitimizes taxes on negative actions. Before this they taxed on income and financial activity, now it's taxing you on not doing something. This is your long term chaos. The short term chaos is throwing the borders open and giving all "free" health care, when the reality is actually, health care is not free.

    When this was first presented by Obama's lawyer for opinion to the Supreme Court, the specific question asked of him was if this was a tax and he responded, NO!. Had he said yes, no further consideration of this ruling would have even proceeded because our Constitution gives our Government the right to tax. Obama didn't want this nation's citizens to know that was what he was doing and he lied. Now, this is also why the White House representative Jay Carney, is telling the White House Press Corps to tell the public that this is not a tax....



















    Edited ...

    Basically our Government of "Separation of Powers" has got together and rammed it through each branch of Government by fraud!

    Now that we have a Dictatorship and no Constitution, why do we need a Supreme Court? By the same token, since we haven't had a Congressional Budget for three and a half years, why do we need a Congressional Budget Office (CBO)?

    However, regarding Obama Care, you're thinking short term. This ruling legitimizes taxes on negative actions. Before this they taxed on income and financial activity, now it's taxing you on not doing something. This is your long term chaos. The short term chaos is throwing the borders open and giving all "free" health care, when the reality is actually, health care is not free.

    When this was first presented by Obama's lawyer for opinion to the Supreme Court, the specific question asked of him was if this was a tax and he responded, NO!. Had he said yes, no further consideration of this ruling would have even proceeded because our Constitution gives our Government the right to tax. Obama didn't want this nation's citizens to know that was what he was doing and he lied. Now, this is also why the White House representative Jay Carney, is telling the White House Press Corps to tell the public that this is not a tax. However, Justice Roberts' wrote the ruling by action, contrary to our Constitution, that this indeed is a "mandated tax".

    Quote directly from the ruling ...

    "One key provision is the individual mandate, which requires most Americans to maintain “minimum essential” health insurance coverage. 26 U. S. C. §5000A. For individuals who are not exempt, and who do not receive health insurance through an employer or government program, the means of satisfying the requirement is to purchase insurance from a private company. Beginning in 2014, those who do not comply with the mandate must make a “[s]hared responsibility payment” to the Federal Government. §§5000A(b)(1). The Act provides that this “penalty”will be paid to the Internal Revenue Service with an individual’s taxes, and “shall be assessed and collected in the same manner” as tax penalties. §§5000A(c), (g)(1)."

    Consequently, citizens were given no vote on acceptance of this ruling, nor was the origin from the House of Representatives as required by our Constitution, but instead oringated from the Senate. Now, citizens are also subject to a fine if they don't have health insurance and they will still be obligated to obtain it while being fined up until they do so. The only way to eliminate Obama Care is through repeal via a newly elected President, other than Obama. However, this doesn't resolve what Justice Roberts established as a precedence and this is the real "whammy" to this nation.

    Robert's precedence is that regardless of whatever administration is in there, the anarchists just got a free gift and you have continual division of everything including people and country, because it will not depend upon the Constitituion, Rule of Law and Equality under the Law, but upon whose party gets in at any time.

    You can be taxed on not having something; let's say, you didn't buy a yacht this year and by virtue of this precedence, you can be taxed and fined. The only way to resolve this is through an Amendment to the Constitution, reversing the precedence established illegally by Chief Supreme Court Justice Roberts.

    Now, give this a thought, did Chief Supreme Court Justice Roberts violate his Oath of Office by not unholding the Constitution through the issuance of this ruling?. Then, whom and how is a life-time, appointed, Supreme Court Justice removed from office for violation of the Oath?

    What this does is illustrate the difference between a Republic and a pure Democracy. Where under a Republic, everybody has certain inalienable rights with the rest being voted upon. Under a pure Democracy, it will depend upon the party in power. In other words, a pure Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting upon what's for lunch.

    Remember what Benjamin Franklin responded to a woman's inquiry, when exiting a Constitutional Convention, She asked "Sir, what have you given us?" and Franklin stated, "A Republic Ma'am, if you can keep it." Consequently, we now have a Democracy.

    This video is a good presentation of the American Form of Government ... watch it.

    (more)
  • Kane Fernau 2012/07/02 02:37:11
    Yes it might backfire on the Liberals
    Kane Fernau
    +5
    When people realize their free healthcare ain't free they ain't gonna like it!
  • Jeremiah Kane Fe... 2012/07/02 17:09:31
    Jeremiah
    It is never free, even in Canada and the other countries with single payer. But it doesn't have to be as expensive as ours has become.

    This is true at least in part to the insurance companies, who take fully one-third of the nation's HC costs, for administrative and advertising costs, and for $20-million salaries and bonuses for their execs.

    Howya doing, Kane?
  • Kane Fe... Jeremiah 2012/07/02 18:27:40
    Kane Fernau
    +3
    Hey, Jer. I trust me with my money more than I trust the government with it. If my wife didn't have health issues I wouldn't waste my money on insurance, would have saved me 7 or 8 thousand a year for the last 30 years.
  • Jeremiah Kane Fe... 2012/07/02 22:33:01
    Jeremiah
    Not if you had suffered a catastrophic illness or injury. We have no way of predicting these things.

    The best solution? Medicare Part E (for everyone).
  • Kane Fe... Jeremiah 2012/07/02 22:43:27
    Kane Fernau
    +3
    We can't afford it. The credit card is maxed out. It's a nice dream but unsustainable unless you like living conditions in Cuba.
  • Jeremiah Kane Fe... 2012/07/02 22:44:41 (edited)
    Jeremiah
    It would be far less expensive than what we have now.

    Cuba's health care system is ranked above ours in quality. How can this be?
  • Kane Fe... Jeremiah 2012/07/02 22:50:28
  • Jeremiah Kane Fe... 2012/07/02 22:59:55
    Jeremiah
    Check the WHO rankings. I don't have my own ranking system.

    Not many Cubans come here anymore. It was never about the health care; it was about opportunities, which no longer look good, thanks to Bush.

    Where have you been? Fidel is no longer in charge. His brother Raoul is.

    "We have more illegals in Texas?" I thought you were a Tennessee resident.
  • Kane Fe... Jeremiah 2012/07/02 23:09:42 (edited)
    Kane Fernau
    +3
    The WHO is the UN. Cubans still come there aren't many able bodied Cubans left, 90 miles is a long swim. 4 years of failure and you still blame Bush, nice. Fidel will be in charge until his last dying breath but he did admit socialism failed the Cuban people and is allowing privatization because the government is broke.. Texas is still in the US isn't it?
  • Jeremiah Kane Fe... 2012/07/03 16:04:56
    Jeremiah
    Of course WHO is located in the UN. It is an international health agency, the only one capable of monitoring all the health care systems on earth. Where else would it be?

    We are still living with Bush's recession. We have recovered more in a shorter time frame than most economists thought possible, given the severity of the recession, but it will take a few more years for a complete recovery.

    All of the communists countries are allowing private investments, including Vietnam and China. I think privatization would be stretching it a bit too far. Fidel is now playing the role of senior statesman, which he likes far better than Che's fate.

    Texas is still in the U.S., but you are no longer in Texas.
  • Kane Fe... Jeremiah 2012/07/03 17:19:00
    Kane Fernau
    +1
    Do you want a global socialist government? The day the democrats took over was not January 22nd 2009, it was actually January 3, 2007... the day the Democrats took over the House of Representatives and the Senate, at the very start of the 110th Congress. The Democrat Party controlled a majority in both chambers for the first time since the end of the 103rd Congress in 1995.
    For those who are listening to the liberals propagating the fallacy that everything is "Bush's Fault", think about this: January 3rd, 2007 was the day the Democrats took over the Senate and the Congress. At the time:The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77 The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5% The Unemployment rate was 4.6%
    George Bush's Economic policies SET A RECORD of 52 STRAIGHT MONTHS of JOB GROWTH Remember the day...January 3rd, 2007 was the day that Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee.
    The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy? BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES!
    Unemployment... to this CRISIS by (among MANY other things) dumping 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic loans on the economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac FIASCOES!
    Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie - starting i...

    &&
    &


    Do you want a global socialist government? The day the democrats took over was not January 22nd 2009, it was actually January 3, 2007... the day the Democrats took over the House of Representatives and the Senate, at the very start of the 110th Congress. The Democrat Party controlled a majority in both chambers for the first time since the end of the 103rd Congress in 1995.
    For those who are listening to the liberals propagating the fallacy that everything is "Bush's Fault", think about this: January 3rd, 2007 was the day the Democrats took over the Senate and the Congress. At the time:The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77 The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5% The Unemployment rate was 4.6%
    George Bush's Economic policies SET A RECORD of 52 STRAIGHT MONTHS of JOB GROWTH Remember the day...January 3rd, 2007 was the day that Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee.
    The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy? BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES!
    Unemployment... to this CRISIS by (among MANY other things) dumping 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic loans on the economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac FIASCOES!
    Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie - starting in 2001 because it was financially risky for the US economy.
    And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac? OBAMA And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie? OBAMA and the Democrat Congress So when someone tries to blame Bush.. REMEMBER JANUARY 3rd, 2007.... THE DAY THE DEMOCRATS TOOK OVER!" Budgets do not come from the White House. They come from Congress, and the party that controlled Congress since January 2007 is the Democrat Party.
    Furthermore, the Democrats controlled the budget process for 2008 & 2009 as well as 2010 & 2011. In that first year, they had to contend with George Bush, which caused them to compromise on spending, when Bush somewhat belatedly got tough on spending increases.
    For 2009 though, Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid bypassed George Bush entirely, passing continuing resolutions to keep government running until Barack Obama could take office. At that time, they passed a massive omnibus spending bill to complete the 2009 budgets.
    And where was Barack Obama during this time? He was a member of that very Congress that passed all of these massive spending bills, and he signed the omnibus bill as President to complete 2009.
    If the Democrats inherited any deficit, it was the 2007 deficit, the last of the Republican budgets. That deficit was the lowest in five years, and the fourth straight decline in deficit spending. After that, Democrats in Congress took control of spending, and that includes Barack Obama, who voted for the budgets.
    If Obama inherited anything, he inherited it from himself. In a nutshell, what Obama is saying is "I inherited a deficit that I voted for and then I voted to expand that deficit four-fold since January 20th."
    (more)
  • Jeremiah Kane Fe... 2012/07/04 21:09:57
    Jeremiah
    A link to your source, please? I would never accuse you of editing, but I would still like to see it for myself. I have an idea where you found it.

    Yes, Democrats took control of both houses of Congress in 2007, but Bush was still in the White House, and he broke the record for vetoes in a two-year period. His first veto was the stem-cell research bill, for Pete's sake. Nothing got done until 2009.

    I see the usual RW views on the recession, but I don't see anything about Gramm-Leach-Bliley, the Republican law that gutted Glass-Steagall and permitted bankers to also act as brokers. The Wall Street casino was open, and the banks began speculating with depositors' money.

    I also don't see anything about hedge funds, derivatives and credit default swaps. It is impossible to understand the causes of the recession without knowing the contribution of each of these terms.

    I will wait for the link before going on. Meanwhile, Google the name of John Paulson. He is a hedge fund manager who became a billionaire by bundling and selling mortgage-backed securities to firms like Fannie and Freddie, and then betting on them to fail, which was a certainty.
  • Kane Fe... Jeremiah 2012/07/03 17:21:29
    Kane Fernau
    +2
    Socialism is just another flavor of
    totalitarian statism, along with fascism, communism, Naziism,
    Progressivism and all the other variations of the same preposterous idea
    that has plagued humanity for the past 100 years.
    That idea is; that society ought to be ordered by a group of elite "planners" who operate to implement their schemes through densely concentrated
    government power. Thus, a socialist is someone who is opposed to the very concept of human liberty.

    A socialist is someone who thinks of himself as a "scientific" thinker, yet refuses to recognize the easily observable fact that during the last
    100 years, every variation of statism has failed miserably, bringing
    economic collapse, hardship and death to every society that has tried it. Even the impending collapse of Europe, and the economic peril
    facing the United States, is not sufficient to inspire a glimmer of
    self-doubt, a smidgen of question, in the mind of a socialist regarding
    the viability of statism.

    A socialist is someone who imagines
    that there exists a big bottomless pot of money that belongs to nobody
    in particular, and that the highest manifestation of statesmanship is
    just to hand it out.
    A socialist is someone who opposes human slavery only to the extent that the slaves are privately owned.

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