Quantcast

Will SH Conservatives Whine And Make Lame Excuses When President Obama Is Reelected ?

Che Guevara - Hero 2012/05/03 18:31:17
YES, They WILL Whine And Make Lame Excuses.
NO, They WILL Admit Defeat and Move On.
You!
Add Photos & Videos
Will SH Conservatives Whine And Make Lame Excuses When President Obama Is Reelected ?
Add a comment above

Top Opinion

  • The Elitist Libtard SodaJerk 2012/05/03 21:26:10
    YES, They WILL Whine And Make Lame Excuses.
    The Elitist Libtard SodaJerk
    +16
    Whining is what they are doing now, Bitching, moaning and having full on Nervous breakdowns is what they'll have after the re-election. First it will be Voter Fraud, Then it will be the Liberal Media, Then They'll try to impeach him. During all of this we will still have to hear from the birthers. and finally they will reach acceptance and realize that Romney was never "Conservative Enough" for them. By then it should be 2015 and wait for the gate to open and all the maniacs barreling out for 2016. And Chances are that who ever the 2016 nominee is will still not be "Conservative Enough" The Leader who is "Conservative Enough" for them took his own life at the end of WWII.

Sort By
  • Most Raves
  • Least Raves
  • Oldest
  • Newest
Opinions

  • Grandbr... Eric 2012/05/04 18:12:47
    Grandbrother
    +1
    You present a false choice. All most people want as far as I can tell is the ability to work reasonable hours for a reasonable salary that allows them to pay the bills and maybe tuck a little away for the occassional vacation and such. That's becoming more and more difficult to find as companies ship middle class jobs overseas, abandon any sense of loyalty to their employees, give greater shares of their profits to fewer people while the vast majority get less and less for their work, etc.

    You said: "All classes are better off today then they were 30 years ago."

    My jaw hit the floor when I read this. Are you really being the slightest bit serious? Here's something I would suggest you take a look at: http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/...

    An excerpt: "Incomes for 90% of Americans have been stuck in neutral, and it's not just because of the Great Recession. Middle-class incomes have been stagnant for at least a generation, while the wealthiest tier has surged ahead at lighting speed.

    In 1988, the income of an average American taxpayer was $33,400, adjusted for inflation. Fast forward 20 years, and not much had changed: The average income was still just $33,000 in 2008, according to IRS data.

    Meanwhile, the richest 1% of Americans -- those making $380,000 or more -- have seen their income...
    You present a false choice. All most people want as far as I can tell is the ability to work reasonable hours for a reasonable salary that allows them to pay the bills and maybe tuck a little away for the occassional vacation and such. That's becoming more and more difficult to find as companies ship middle class jobs overseas, abandon any sense of loyalty to their employees, give greater shares of their profits to fewer people while the vast majority get less and less for their work, etc.

    You said: "All classes are better off today then they were 30 years ago."

    My jaw hit the floor when I read this. Are you really being the slightest bit serious? Here's something I would suggest you take a look at: http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/...

    An excerpt: "Incomes for 90% of Americans have been stuck in neutral, and it's not just because of the Great Recession. Middle-class incomes have been stagnant for at least a generation, while the wealthiest tier has surged ahead at lighting speed.

    In 1988, the income of an average American taxpayer was $33,400, adjusted for inflation. Fast forward 20 years, and not much had changed: The average income was still just $33,000 in 2008, according to IRS data.

    Meanwhile, the richest 1% of Americans -- those making $380,000 or more -- have seen their incomes grow 33% over the last 20 years, leaving average Americans in the dust."
    (more)
  • Blinky Grandbr... 2012/05/04 19:57:50
  • Grandbr... Blinky 2012/05/04 23:15:01 (edited)
    Grandbrother
    +1
    The claim that this is about "jealousy" is, at best, ragingly disingenuous. All people want is opportunity, and that is precisely what's been dwindling in recent decades. People on "the upper end" achieved what they did when opportunity was abundant. The same opportunity simply does not exist today, because a greater and greater share of America's wealth is being redistributed to the rich while the middle and lower classes have remained financially stagnant or even saw pay and opportunity going away. But most folks are like you - they don't expect someone else who's better off to give anything to them. They just want to be fairly compensated for their work and have the same opportunity to become "better off" that those who already are had available to them.

    rise of super wealthy

    Just to illustrate the disparity in economic growth and opportunity...
  • Blinky Grandbr... 2012/05/05 11:25:28
  • Grandbr... Blinky 2012/05/13 05:04:28
    Grandbrother
    "No claim of jealousy was made..."? Really? Let's quote your previous reply to me:

    "...those on the lower end should do what those on the upper end did to achieve what they achieved rather than letting their jealousy get the best of them."

    And yes, many don't take the opportunities presented them. But that's always been the case and isn't the point. What you need to learn is that there's less opportunity today than there was in the past thanks to the shifting of a larger and larger percentage of Americas wealth to a smaller and smaller group of people who influence legislation in their favor while shipping more and more jobs overseas - all of which leaves less jobs and less wealth available for the middle and lower classes to earn and advance through. This is whats been decimating the middle class. Do you know what kind of countries have only a lower and upper class with no middle? Third world countries.
  • Eric Grandbr... 2012/05/13 04:03:34
    Eric
    It is unfortunate that the media and a political party has latched onto this theme about a declining middle class. First of all, that would be illogical, like Lake Wobegon "where all children are above average". There will always be a middle class because there will always be a middle.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    "The report found that real household income after federal taxes and including government transfers (payments from Social Security, unemployment insurance, etc.[43][44]) grew by 62%. However, income of households in the top 1 percent of earners grew by 275%, compared to 65% for the next 19 percent, just under 40% for the next 60 percent, 18% for the bottom fifth of households."

    That is where I got the 18% improvement for the lowest quintile, from the CBO report. Yes, I understand the rich are getting very rich but that is not what I said. All classes are doing better. Certainly I have seen anecdotal evidence of that as my 80 yr relatives are less well off than my 50 yr old and the 50 yr olds are less well off than my 20-30 yr olds. Bigger houses earlier, more expensive cars, more travel, etc. Surprised that you haven't noticed. And with my relatives, each generation was less educated than the previous, ironically.

    Maslow talked about the hierachy of needs, w...






    It is unfortunate that the media and a political party has latched onto this theme about a declining middle class. First of all, that would be illogical, like Lake Wobegon "where all children are above average". There will always be a middle class because there will always be a middle.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    "The report found that real household income after federal taxes and including government transfers (payments from Social Security, unemployment insurance, etc.[43][44]) grew by 62%. However, income of households in the top 1 percent of earners grew by 275%, compared to 65% for the next 19 percent, just under 40% for the next 60 percent, 18% for the bottom fifth of households."

    That is where I got the 18% improvement for the lowest quintile, from the CBO report. Yes, I understand the rich are getting very rich but that is not what I said. All classes are doing better. Certainly I have seen anecdotal evidence of that as my 80 yr relatives are less well off than my 50 yr old and the 50 yr olds are less well off than my 20-30 yr olds. Bigger houses earlier, more expensive cars, more travel, etc. Surprised that you haven't noticed. And with my relatives, each generation was less educated than the previous, ironically.

    Maslow talked about the hierachy of needs, with physiological, safety, social/love, self esteem, and self-actualization, in order. The first 2 are related to money but basically everyone in the US has that. Only a cynic would say money is needed for social needs, love, or self-actualization. That is perhaps why it is not a "false choice", as you called it, to choose between working and leisure. We are at historically low rates of participation in the labor force as many are doing what I am doing.
    http://data.bls.gov/timeserie...

    The greatest possession we have is the 1,440 minutes we all get each day. Because of the diminishing utilty of money (after you have a pair of shoes and a roof over your head do you really need 3,000 pairs of shoes and seven 30,000 sq ft houses?), people are choosing to work less.
    And we have historic lows in married couples. Marriage helps greatly in achieving financial security but since we already have this, many are choosing not to be married-no financial need.

    Finally, it just irritates the heck out of me that we live in a world in which 2.5 billion live on less than $2/day and only the richest 700 million live on more than $10,000/year. Basically all of the US is in the top 10%. Yet the OWS crowd is whinning about the top 0.1% of the top 10% that they are all in. And they complain about jobs being shipped overseas which has contributed greatly, as Money mag noted, in improving the lives of the bottom 90% globally.
    I guess that liberalism is dead.
    (more)
  • Grandbr... Eric 2012/05/15 01:13:45 (edited)
    Grandbrother
    "There will always be a middle class because there will always be a middle."

    Let's not lose the point in semantics. My work frequently takes me to India, and yes, even there they have a "middle class". But it's nowhere near significant enough a demographic to drive their economy as our middle class has historically been. It is overwhelmingly poor, with a handful of obscenely wealthy people scattered throughout. You should visit some time if you've never been. Mumbai in particular is made up of a sea of slums, with new highrises and other high-end buildings popping up here and there in the middle of them. A diminishing middle class pushes us further towards this model.

    As for your position that the "declining middle class" is essentially a false narrative, you're only citing one factor and drawing a broad conclusion on it when the reality is that there are MANY factors to consider here. For instance, you pointed out yourself that between 1979 and 2007, income "grew by...just under 40% for the next 60 percent" - the "next 60 percent" being, for discussion's sake, the middle class. Sounds great when considered in a vacuum. But then factor in things like the following:

    "...the cost of college doubles every nine years. For a baby born today, this means that college costs will be more...



    "There will always be a middle class because there will always be a middle."

    Let's not lose the point in semantics. My work frequently takes me to India, and yes, even there they have a "middle class". But it's nowhere near significant enough a demographic to drive their economy as our middle class has historically been. It is overwhelmingly poor, with a handful of obscenely wealthy people scattered throughout. You should visit some time if you've never been. Mumbai in particular is made up of a sea of slums, with new highrises and other high-end buildings popping up here and there in the middle of them. A diminishing middle class pushes us further towards this model.

    As for your position that the "declining middle class" is essentially a false narrative, you're only citing one factor and drawing a broad conclusion on it when the reality is that there are MANY factors to consider here. For instance, you pointed out yourself that between 1979 and 2007, income "grew by...just under 40% for the next 60 percent" - the "next 60 percent" being, for discussion's sake, the middle class. Sounds great when considered in a vacuum. But then factor in things like the following:

    "...the cost of college doubles every nine years. For a baby born today, this means that college costs will be more than three times current rates when the child matriculates in college." http://www.finaid.org/savings...

    So assuming the "baby" in question is looking to attend college at 18 years old, that means college tuition has increased 300% in 18 years, while it's taken 28 years for their middle class parent's income to grow by less than 40%. And in those same 28 years, the median home prices rose over 400%. Are you starting to see an imbalanced trend here that may just support the reality of a declining middle class?

    Finally, yes, U.S. incomes are higher than the vast majority of the world. But as I've been illustrating above, so is our cost of living. I've had full, high quality, restaurant meals in places like India, Thailand, etc. for only pennies. A McDonald's in the U.S. costs a fortune in comparison. So we need to consider apples to apples if we're going to be drawing conclusions about comparative quality of life and who deserves the right to complain.
    (more)
  • Eric Grandbr... 2012/05/15 04:22:33
    Eric
    Glad to see that you do have an international perspective and understand the poverty in other countries.
    But don't get too carried away with the idea that life is so much cheaper in other countries. I do understand that some things, food especially, costs less. Wonder how much of that price difference is due to the types of food eaten as locals tend to eat more locally produced food, less processing and the labor costs are lower. For reference, comparing apples to apples, a $4.20 US Big Mac costs $2.46 in Thailand and $1.62 in India. So, that equivalent food cost 39% in India and 59% in Thailand, compared to the US. Per capita GDP in the US is $48,10, in India is $3,700 (8%) and in Thailand is $9,700 (20%), and so it would appear that the difference in income more than covers the higher US food prices. Meanwhile, I suspect that my $22,000 Hyundai or $700 42" Toshiba TV probably costs a little more in those countries. Gas/energy probably costs more. Housing costs seem somewhat lower but relatively close, comparing apples to apples. Most of us would probably not be happy with average Indian housing.
    http://www.economist.com/blog...

    https://www.cia.gov/library/p...

    The price of education is interesting. Many assume that we are in a higher education bubble, produced when...





    Glad to see that you do have an international perspective and understand the poverty in other countries.
    But don't get too carried away with the idea that life is so much cheaper in other countries. I do understand that some things, food especially, costs less. Wonder how much of that price difference is due to the types of food eaten as locals tend to eat more locally produced food, less processing and the labor costs are lower. For reference, comparing apples to apples, a $4.20 US Big Mac costs $2.46 in Thailand and $1.62 in India. So, that equivalent food cost 39% in India and 59% in Thailand, compared to the US. Per capita GDP in the US is $48,10, in India is $3,700 (8%) and in Thailand is $9,700 (20%), and so it would appear that the difference in income more than covers the higher US food prices. Meanwhile, I suspect that my $22,000 Hyundai or $700 42" Toshiba TV probably costs a little more in those countries. Gas/energy probably costs more. Housing costs seem somewhat lower but relatively close, comparing apples to apples. Most of us would probably not be happy with average Indian housing.
    http://www.economist.com/blog...

    https://www.cia.gov/library/p...

    The price of education is interesting. Many assume that we are in a higher education bubble, produced when money is easily available and more and more are attending. US provides over 25% of the worldwide tertiary educated people. More US citizens attend college, c. 42% then the OECD average of 30%. Not sure that many of those attending college should be attending. If Germany can survive with 27% of the adult population being college grads why can't we. I read today that only 30% of the 2004 US graduates are working in jobs that require a college degree. I think that the answer is not to make money more readily available for college as colleges just seem to raise their tuition to meet available revenues. I would like to see less people in college and more government support for those truly qualified for college. There are millions of well paying jobs that don't require a college degree. There has to be some system of grading colleges on performance and rewarding those that keep costs low. Perhaps with colleges holding some responsibility, with their own chips in the game. If their Women's Studies grad can't get a degree in that field perhaps the college should lose something, like they pay the interest on the student loan until it is paid.

    If qualified college students complete college in a timely manner, and actually study while in college, their earning potential should cover the costs. But, yeah, I agree with your that college costs a major concern.

    http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/...

    I think that the biggest challenge facing the young is public debt and fulfilling government promises to its citizens. We need c. $300,000 to fund Soc Sec and $500,000 to fund Medicare, per recipient (if I remember the Money mag article). With 77 million baby boomers almost done contributing, that means that $61.6 Trillion should be sitting in a bank somewhere. Or added to our $15.7 Trillion debt.
    (more)
  • Grandbr... Eric 2012/05/15 17:01:41
    Grandbrother
    Yes, McDonald's charges prices that are inconsistent with the prices of "local" food. Mainly because those types of chains are located in more touristy areas. You'll find that most of these countries have two distinct prices for everything - the local and the tourist prices. I would never look at McDonald's prices to reach any legtimate conclusions about cost of living. Locals live extremely cheaply in these places.

    Electronics are also not an accurate gauge. Despite often being made in Asia, they are much more expensive due to how the tarriffs and such are set up. You can't simply isolate the exceptions to the rule and act as if they establish the norm.

    You are exactly right that typical Indian housing would not be well-received by the average American. And not just the housing, but the basic public services, such as tainted water, unreliable power, very poor internet infrastructure, etc. This is exactly my point about why it's nt a model we should be moving towards, yet we are and will continue to until we deal with our declining middle class problem in a substantive way.
  • Eric Grandbr... 2012/05/15 18:01:55
    Eric
    +1
    Enjoyed our dialogue.
    And only a fool would be eating Big Macs in Mumbai.
  • Grandbr... Eric 2012/05/15 19:24:11
    Grandbrother
    True. Everyone knows that in Mumbai you order the McVeggie burger. Not kidding....
  • Lady Whitewolf 2012/05/03 19:58:08
    YES, They WILL Whine And Make Lame Excuses.
    Lady Whitewolf
    +4
    LOLZ... does a Bear sit in the woods? November is gonna be interesting.
  • Uranos7 2012/05/03 19:53:52
    NO, They WILL Admit Defeat and Move On.
    Uranos7
    +6
    We will not be the ones whining already the media is beginning to turn on Oduma because they know he will be defeated. Barack will be deported back to Kenya, that is if he is not imprisoned. All of his supporters will bury thier heads in the sand and cry it is the end of the world!
    Obama fired

    obama baby
  • Willie 2012/05/03 19:45:55
    YES, They WILL Whine And Make Lame Excuses.
    Willie
    +5
    Voter fraud will be their hue and cry. They really believe that it's true because they're guilty of voter suppression, and they think if they're cheating, the other side must be cheating, too. Poor deluded conservatives.
  • S and S Willie 2012/05/03 20:03:31
    S and S
    +1
    like Obama's thugs killing Tubbs and Gwatney
  • Hula gi... Willie 2012/05/03 20:06:13 (edited)
    Hula girl - Friends not Followers
    +3
    You mean like the truth of having George Soros's company in charge of ballots? Naw..that's not corrupt.
  • Willie Hula gi... 2012/05/03 20:35:48
    Willie
    There's going to be a ballet? I just love ballet.

    ballet
  • Hula gi... Willie 2012/05/03 21:03:20
    Hula girl - Friends not Followers
    +1
    Yep...lots of dancing around by this administration in the honesty department.
  • Blinky Willie 2012/05/03 22:15:24
  • Rebel Yell 2012/05/03 19:38:09
    YES, They WILL Whine And Make Lame Excuses.
    Rebel Yell
    +9
    Just read some of the insane posts here. They're sure George Soros will invalidate the ballots. They know there was voter fraud in '08 but McCain didn't say anything because of threats from the New Black Panthers... who apparently Obama has installed in the White House along with his communist/marxists pals. Bin Laden isn't really dead. That's another Obama trick and all the SEALS hate him... all 2500 . One believes Obama will order attacks on Americans to further his cause... whatever the hell that is supposed to mean. Bill Ayers is warning university students America's game is over and ’another world’ is coming. Obama is behind that, too. Boehner is protecting Holder.... Obama must have threatened Boehner, too. And on and on and on.....

    Everyday the same mouthbreathers are here with breaking news that " You will NOT find this story on any of the Old Media outlets!!"
  • Lady Wh... Rebel Yell 2012/05/03 19:58:57
    Lady Whitewolf
    +4
    well said!
  • John James 2012/05/03 19:25:53
    NO, They WILL Admit Defeat and Move On.
    John James
  • Always ... John James 2012/05/03 19:49:47
    Always Right
    +1
    The whine some libs will hear, are the bullets flying around them!
  • John James Always ... 2012/05/03 20:02:25
    John James
    +4
    One only has to ask, why do the liberal oppose voter ID laws???
  • Che Gue... John James 2012/05/03 23:01:08
    Che Guevara - Hero
    +2
    Please post 1 factual example of an illegal alien that was able to vote in a US Election.
  • John James Che Gue... 2012/05/04 03:54:16
  • Che Gue... Always ... 2012/05/03 23:00:03
    Che Guevara - Hero
    +2
    Conservatives are cowards and draft dodgers. They are really tough behind a keyboard but melt like butter when you meet them face to face. lol
    conservative draft dodgers
  • Blinky Che Gue... 2012/05/04 02:47:03
  • John James Blinky 2012/05/04 03:54:42
    John James
    +1
    or clinton for that matter.
  • Blinky John James 2012/05/04 12:59:37
  • The Wro... John James 2012/05/03 20:38:22
    The Wrong Guy
    +3
    You wish, pansy. We have guns, too, ya know ;-)
  • John James The Wro... 2012/05/03 20:51:04
    John James
    +2
    All you have are insults. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Internet tough guy

    internet tough guy
  • The Wro... John James 2012/05/03 21:30:15
    The Wrong Guy
    +2
    ...says the guy who merely replied, "WAR", like it means something.
  • Che Gue... The Wro... 2012/05/03 23:02:22
    Che Guevara - Hero
    +3
    WAR is White Aryan Resistance, a neo-nazi group of child molesters.
  • The Wro... Che Gue... 2012/05/03 23:40:23
    The Wrong Guy
    +3
    Oh my - I had no idea...
  • Blinky The Wro... 2012/05/03 22:16:44
  • The Wro... Blinky 2012/05/03 22:21:28
  • Blinky The Wro... 2012/05/04 02:47:58
  • The Wro... Blinky 2012/05/04 03:20:40
    The Wrong Guy
    +2
    What - a BB gun? Where did I say a BB gun counted? I doubt they can even read.
  • Blinky The Wro... 2012/05/04 13:00:39

See Votes by State

The map above displays the winning answer by region.

News & Politics

2013/05/19 00:46:55

Hot Questions on SodaHead
More Hot Questions

More Community More Originals