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Will Afghanistan be Obama's "Vietnam"?

Chico 2009/07/28 14:02:36
Yes! Afghanistan is a tough gig. Tons of varied ethnicities, etc. Tough terrain! Russia found out!
No! He has an "exit strategy" and has the capacity to "re-group" and "re-think"--Admit mistakes and pull out if need be!
None of the above. Here's what I think..........
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Afghan war questioned as more bodies flown home

Jul 28 07:02 AM US/Eastern

CNN Correspondent: U.S. ‘Cannot Win the War in Afghanistan’

Most Britons believe the increasingly bloody war in Afghanistan is "unwinnable" and want troops pulled out, a poll suggested on Tuesday, as more soldiers' bodies were flown home.
The dead servicemen were set to be honoured a day after the government announced the end of a deadly offensive in southern Afghanistan and outlined a change of strategy there following a sharp spike in deaths.

Foreign Secretary David Miliband signalled on Monday that Britain would back talking to moderate Taliban representatives in a bid to isolate militant insurgents who have killed 191 British troops since 2001.


A total of 22 have been killed this month alone after British forces went on the offensive in Operation Panther's Claw, just weeks before crucial presidential elections.

Four more fallen soldiers' bodies were flown home to RAF Lyneham near Swindon in Wiltshire, before a solemn procession through the village of Wootton Bassett.

The ceremonies in the town -- which has become a focus of grief and support for British troops -- come after two more soldiers were killed in the troubled Helmand province, the frontline in the battle with the Taliban.

The surge in troop deaths has sparked a political row over resources for troops in Afghanistan, with Prime Minister Gordon Brown forced to defend Britain's strategy after calls for more equipment and boosted soldier numbers.

But according to a poll in the Independent on Tuesday, the majority of Britons now think the war in Afghanistan is "unwinnable" and want troops to be withdrawn immediately.

Fifty-eight percent see the offensive against the Taliban as a lost cause, while 31 percent believe the conflict can be won, according to a ComRes poll conducted between July 24 and 26.

Fifty-two percent of the 1,008 polled want the troops out while 43 percent want them to stay put.

Britain has around 9,150 troops in Afghanistan, the vast majority fighting Taliban militants in troubled Helmand.

In a keynote speech at NATO headquarters in Brussels on Monday, Miliband reiterated Britain's call for other countries to do more -- while stressing the need for the Afghan government to engage with moderate Taliban elements.

"We need to help the Afghan government exploit the opportunity, with a more coherent effort to fragment the various elements of the insurgency and turn those who can be reconciled to live within the Afghan constitution," he said.

The military on Monday insisted the first phase of Panther's Claw was a success, with 3,000 British-led troops inflicting heavy losses on the Taliban since the operation was launched in late June.

In the latest violence in Helmand on Tuesday, eight local security guards were killed by an insurgent bomb, the interior ministry said.

There are about 90,000 foreign troops in Afghanistan helping local forces, with thousands most recently deployed to the south to try and secure the restive area ahead of presidential polls on August 20.

The ballots, a key test of US and NATO-backed efforts to install democracy in Afghanistan after decades of war and conflict, will be only the second time that Afghans elect a president.

President Hamid Karzai is favourite to win a second term, but has come under fire from his rivals in the election for not doing more to improve security in the country since he assumed office after the 2001 fall of the Taliban.



Copyright AFP 2008, AFP stories and photos shall not be published, broadcast, rewritten for broadcast or publication or redistributed directly or indirectly in any medium
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  • Tiffany 2009/07/28 14:09:14
    None of the above. Here's what I think..........
    Tiffany
    +5
    I think that regardless of what's going on over there, most of the MSM wont report it. The last year of Bush's presidency....it was war 24/7. Since O'Zero got elected, the MSM virtually ignores the wars. Why is it that war is deemed bad if a Republican is in office....but is accepted when a Dem is in office? Oh.....that's right.....O'Zero inherited all of this mess from Bush. My bad............................. war republican office accepted dem office ozero inherited mess bush

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  • Edie 2009/11/23 06:56:57
    Yes! Afghanistan is a tough gig. Tons of varied ethnicities, etc. Tough terra...
    Edie
    It already is how far down does he choose to sink before he leaves them to their own demise? Russia found out after much loss of lives and money. Having been there it is so rough countryside the culture has not changed in over 100 yrs leave them alone.
  • Phyl~In~God~I~TRUST 2009/07/29 02:58:38
    Yes! Afghanistan is a tough gig. Tons of varied ethnicities, etc. Tough terra...
    Phyl~In~God~I~TRUST
    Bring our Troop''s home safe now.
  • Fordy Freedom Fighter 2009/07/29 00:03:47
    Yes! Afghanistan is a tough gig. Tons of varied ethnicities, etc. Tough terra...
    Fordy Freedom Fighter
    I have been saying this,,
    Iraq had a beginning and an end..
    The terrain and never ending supply of terrorist will be never ending.
    We need to work on making the home land safer.
    SOLDIERS are dying, and to what end??
  • Gracie - Proud Conservative 2009/07/28 22:51:58
    Yes! Afghanistan is a tough gig. Tons of varied ethnicities, etc. Tough terra...
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    He can't win in Afghanistan. It's a bad place. He is copying the surge in Iraq and no one is saying a word. Where are all the anti-war people weighing in on this?
  • Andy 2009/07/28 18:09:06
    None of the above. Here's what I think..........
    Andy
    Afghanistan is a more lagitamit war, it's true we've been there 8 years, & another 8 is posable, but its justafied, & needs to be won
  • Gracie ... Andy 2009/07/28 22:52:43
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    Sure any war from a liberal is legitimate.
  • Andy Gracie ... 2009/07/29 14:53:33
    Andy
    self defence is a legitamit reason,

    the taliban took control of Afghanistan, set up terrorist camps and on 9/11 america was attacked,

    i can't be botherd giving you the full argument,

    if your working on the levle of party bashing, (i'm not even american btw) i'm quite happy to call you arrogant
  • Gracie ... Andy 2009/07/29 19:33:56
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    I think it was George Bush who went to war with Afghanistan and if you aren't American you can't understand the level of garbage from the liberals and the media here.

    While Bush was President the media and liberals carried on about the wars everyday. Now that Obama is President you don't hear a peep.

    I personally think people from Great Britain to call us arrogant are a tad ungrateful and have forgotten much of their history.
  • Andy Gracie ... 2009/07/29 19:54:40
    Andy
    you've jusy switched your argument, i'm pro the Afghan war, we need to win that war no matter how difficult it is, you'r doing more party bashing,
    the american media is mostly right wing, the Iraqu war was ilegal,

    i not talking about the past, i'm talking about you personaly, unless you personly have done somthing in history ?

    i take it your republican so lets talk about the presant tens, who's the only country that satyed on talking terms with bush /, & basicly the only country making any realy contrabution to help the states in the middle east ? or are you stuck in the past ?
  • Gracie ... Andy 2009/07/29 20:10:58
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    I am registered as a Republican but I was not crazy about McCain because he was not conservative. I am really a Conservative Libertarian except I do believe in a strong military defense. My take on the Afghan war was only about the hypocrisy of the liberals.

    As far as our media being mostly right wing, all I can say is...

    libertarian strong military defense afghan war hypocrisy liberals media wing

    Are you kidding me? You are hysterically wrong. Where did you get that from? The Iraq war was not illegal. That's more crap! I'm in Canada right now and I've noticed that the news about the US is very slanted. We are hanging on to freedom by a thread and I know you don't get it but you are dead wrong. Obama has been nothing but nasty to your country but I guess you don't mind?
  • Andy Gracie ... 2009/07/29 20:12:54
    Andy
    do you watch fox (party political brodcast) news ?
  • Gracie ... Andy 2009/07/29 20:15:51
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    Yes I do watch Fox. It is the only network that has both sides of the story. Do you or are you getting more propaganda about it from here and elsewhere?
  • Andy Gracie ... 2009/07/29 20:31:45
    Andy
    do you ever watch the bbc news its internationly knowin as the best & fairest news brodcaster world wide, do you know fox even admit they're baiest/sympathetic towards republican polacys ?

    we've had a private enquirey here saying the public was delibratly mislead on iraqus thret, i guessing it was sexed up even more in america, as emotions were runing higher there, now we're having a public enquiry,
    forget about the politics & it was clearly a war for oil.

    i'm a proud scots man & if he had been rude to us i'd be saying so, the only thing i think hes done is snub brown when he visited america, it was unsceduald & hes a bussy man, no harm done,

    you almost watching a propaganda chanle in fox "news"

    back to the point, Afghanistan is & will be difficult, but is nesacery
  • Gracie ... Andy 2009/07/29 20:34:21
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    Then we screwed up in Iraq because we didn't get any oil. BBC is very liberal as I'm sure you are. I don't expect you to understand our politics or conservatism because you don't have it.
  • Andy Gracie ... 2009/07/29 20:51:33
    Andy
    i remember america took control of the oil field, maby made less money than the war cost(it was reported as the spoils of war)
    but it was the contracts, sadam had them with france & russia, now mosly america & some fields i think were sold to american companys, + the price hick ment shells added profit & Taxes,

    the bbc is none, left wingests say its right wing & vice versa,

    i'll try & say it in american then because they are nutral, count them in the centre of the scale, then your right cause thats what liberalsim is in the centre, but you mean left, no there not they're unbaiest, maby the centre is alot thuther left compared to what your use to,
  • Gracie ... Andy 2009/07/30 00:51:51
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    We've spent way more money in Iraq and we are leaving equipment there and have rebuilt more than we should have. I think you are misguided on the whole oil thing. It's very popular to rage on about big oil companies in America. It's a popular liberal war cry.

    Our oil companies have been making an 8% profit. That is fairly low as corporations go. I'm just glad one is making a profit myself.

    I want small government and I don't want a socialist country and I want freedom. That is why we came here from Great Britain.
  • Andy Gracie ... 2009/07/30 14:00:55
    Andy
    i'm lost to what point your trying to but across there, can i have some of your resons why you disagree with the Afgan war ?
  • Gracie ... Andy 2009/07/31 01:29:56
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    I have not said that I disagree with the Afghan war. I just think it is going to be extremely hard to win because of the terrain and the people. Obama is now doing what he criticized Bush for in Iraq. The left said that the war in Iraq was lost. They said that the surge couldn't work but it did and then they couldn't even admit that they were wrong.

    Now they are doing the same thing in Afghanistan and all the people who were bitching about the war aren't saying anything and the media is totally silent. If that doesn't show you that our media is biased what will?

    If any side has made this political it would be the Democrats.
  • Andy Gracie ... 2009/07/31 17:31:44 (edited)
    Andy
    why did you sart arguing with me them ?????????

    i disagree with nearly every thing you've said there,

    it is going to be extremely hard to win because of the terrain and the people, your right there,

    i'm gonna try & keep this unpolitical, on where your wrong,

    Iraqu & Afghanistan are very diffrent wars, i don't know what coment obama made about iraqu, but the war was over very quickly, it was the ocupation that was a mess, (as its a Q on Afgan i wount get into the legality, missleading of the public or the post war plans of iraqu)

    i've just realised your holl argument was political, so i can't comment on anything else you said lol

    look Afganistan is alot harsher conditions, for us, we take a year to get our helicopters conditioned for Afganistan from iraqu, the terrain like you said is very difficult, the sparsh populi, patch work of war lords, other than a central dictatorship like in Iraqu, the more i look it to the war the more difficult it looks to win, but its a war that needs to be won, what i think is,
    heart & mides - more troops on the ground
    divide & conquer - alot of the diffrent tribs fighting for the talban, are doing it out of fear, of have being misslead into it,
    train Afgan security - i'm not sure what the number is but we've trained thousands of police & milli...&
    why did you sart arguing with me them ?????????

    i disagree with nearly every thing you've said there,

    it is going to be extremely hard to win because of the terrain and the people, your right there,

    i'm gonna try & keep this unpolitical, on where your wrong,

    Iraqu & Afghanistan are very diffrent wars, i don't know what coment obama made about iraqu, but the war was over very quickly, it was the ocupation that was a mess, (as its a Q on Afgan i wount get into the legality, missleading of the public or the post war plans of iraqu)

    i've just realised your holl argument was political, so i can't comment on anything else you said lol

    look Afganistan is alot harsher conditions, for us, we take a year to get our helicopters conditioned for Afganistan from iraqu, the terrain like you said is very difficult, the sparsh populi, patch work of war lords, other than a central dictatorship like in Iraqu, the more i look it to the war the more difficult it looks to win, but its a war that needs to be won, what i think is,
    heart & mides - more troops on the ground
    divide & conquer - alot of the diffrent tribs fighting for the talban, are doing it out of fear, of have being misslead into it,
    train Afgan security - i'm not sure what the number is but we've trained thousands of police & millitia, basic security for the people is the minim to save the people from the talaban & stablise the regein
    (more)
  • bluesingincat 2009/07/28 17:22:16
  • Jebrel 2009/07/28 15:52:52
    Yes! Afghanistan is a tough gig. Tons of varied ethnicities, etc. Tough terra...
    Jebrel
    It may turn that way..
  • apachehellfire65 2009/07/28 15:02:33
    Yes! Afghanistan is a tough gig. Tons of varied ethnicities, etc. Tough terra...
    apachehellfire65
    +1
    afghanistan is everyones vietnam.has been for awhile
  • Sheila 2009/07/28 14:59:33
    Yes! Afghanistan is a tough gig. Tons of varied ethnicities, etc. Tough terra...
    Sheila
    +1
    They BROKE RUSSIA!!! If we really need to be there, we need to be careful. The casualties will be WAY higher than Iraq.
  • Sherry Mowery, My Cowboy su... 2009/07/28 14:50:45
    Yes! Afghanistan is a tough gig. Tons of varied ethnicities, etc. Tough terra...
    Sherry Mowery, My Cowboy suffers no longer...
    +2
    It very well could be but the difference will be those young soldiers will be repected and held close to our hearts for the battles they have and will be endured. Not done for the one who fought in Vietnam.
  • Russell 2009/07/28 14:45:50 (edited)
    None of the above. Here's what I think..........
    Russell
    +2
    He is making a "show" at our soldiers expense. Pehaps this is not a great analogy but here it is :

    There are Rats and mice in the house and barn. Do you set out hundreds of traps and wait or do you poison the Hell out of their enviroment for a more definate outcome?

    In Vietnam we fought "gorillas" in Afganistan we are doing much the same.
    In Vietnam we were restrained from "removing targets" and in Afganistan there will be more of the same.
    In Vietnam we lost a lot of Soldiers due to less than stellar moves, not from the Soldiers themselves, but from the restrictions placed on them by High Command.

    Russia stayed in Afganistan for how long? And they accomplished what? If, for whatever reason we are going to send good men and women into the furnace we should have a clear and decisive plan of action. It is truely sad that non combatants will die, but to save our lives and get the job done; mothball the rat traps and take out the poison. ALL OF IT !! Given the state of military technology today.....we should not have to be there at all.

    While I never saw combat and therefore cannot speak to the horrors of war, I do believe in my heart of hearts, if it is between you and the target, KILL IT and move on.
    Lives will be lost of course...the majority of those saved will be ours.

    ..."&"'
    He is making a "show" at our soldiers expense. Pehaps this is not a great analogy but here it is :

    There are Rats and mice in the house and barn. Do you set out hundreds of traps and wait or do you poison the Hell out of their enviroment for a more definate outcome?

    In Vietnam we fought "gorillas" in Afganistan we are doing much the same.
    In Vietnam we were restrained from "removing targets" and in Afganistan there will be more of the same.
    In Vietnam we lost a lot of Soldiers due to less than stellar moves, not from the Soldiers themselves, but from the restrictions placed on them by High Command.

    Russia stayed in Afganistan for how long? And they accomplished what? If, for whatever reason we are going to send good men and women into the furnace we should have a clear and decisive plan of action. It is truely sad that non combatants will die, but to save our lives and get the job done; mothball the rat traps and take out the poison. ALL OF IT !! Given the state of military technology today.....we should not have to be there at all.

    While I never saw combat and therefore cannot speak to the horrors of war, I do believe in my heart of hearts, if it is between you and the target, KILL IT and move on.
    Lives will be lost of course...the majority of those saved will be ours.

    A parting thought : I have family in Iraq right now, and I have family going to Afganistan. In no way am I confident that we will "sweep & mop"....we are far too concerned with collateral damage and our image. War does not make friends...and friends don't make war. Break out the Rat poison. end
    (more)
  • The Gov-Here to help BN362 2009/07/28 14:43:37
    None of the above. Here's what I think..........
    The Gov-Here to help BN362
    +2
    Shit... we are never going to get out of there... I don't really believe that anyone who can change that really,truly is going too... I think that was the plan from the beginning.
  • madjack 2009/07/28 14:39:51
    None of the above. Here's what I think..........
    madjack
    +2
    Well over a century before our involvment in Viet Nam,"Cochin China" as it was known at the time,was axiomatic for trouble among US Military Officers advising our Govt. as to how to approach the tribes of the South West in the 1850s.This did not seem to matter to Kennedy or Johnson in the 1960s.The British have long experience in the region and understand it far better than Obama,who's ego and hubris have him convinced he knows better.
  • keliffa 2009/07/28 14:27:37 (edited)
    None of the above. Here's what I think..........
    keliffa
    Obama retooling and sending more troops to Afghanistan is something he has done RIGHT.

    And I really watch journalists would shove the words Vietnam and quagmire up their asses.
  • hook 2009/07/28 14:22:29
    None of the above. Here's what I think..........
    hook
    +2
    to tell the truth chico no,i dont want them code pink harpies nowhere near our troups,remember!!
  • Denise 2009/07/28 14:15:53
    None of the above. Here's what I think..........
    Denise
    +1
    Well, did I hear on the news wrong a few weeks ago that Obama is already planning his exit strategy from Afghan-land? If so, he must be trying to avoid a "Vietnam" and possibly finds it unwinnable at that.
  • Tiffany 2009/07/28 14:09:14
    None of the above. Here's what I think..........
    Tiffany
    +5
    I think that regardless of what's going on over there, most of the MSM wont report it. The last year of Bush's presidency....it was war 24/7. Since O'Zero got elected, the MSM virtually ignores the wars. Why is it that war is deemed bad if a Republican is in office....but is accepted when a Dem is in office? Oh.....that's right.....O'Zero inherited all of this mess from Bush. My bad............................. war republican office accepted dem office ozero inherited mess bush
  • Chico Tiffany 2009/07/28 14:14:45
    Chico
    +5
    "Funny" how that works, isn't it?

    We live in a "proctocracy"!

    (ruled by an A-Hole with MSM agenda-driven lockstep support)
  • Tiffany Chico 2009/07/28 14:17:38
    Tiffany
    +3
    It's all quite maddening, Chico. My cousin just returned from his 4th tour in Afghanistan and he says it's REALLY bad over there. He was blown away by the lack of reporting being done on said war.
  • Chico 2009/07/28 14:05:03
    Yes! Afghanistan is a tough gig. Tons of varied ethnicities, etc. Tough terra...
    Chico
    +4
    The man has shown himself to have a huge ego -- fueled by his unbridled narcissism! (bolstered by his assurance from the Leftists that this is the "right war"!)

    He will get mired in a "macho" embroglio and will never want to admit he "bit off more than he can chew"!
  • Chico Chico 2009/07/28 14:08:58
    Chico
    +3
    Unless, of course, he can "talk his way out of it"!

    Britain and US prepared to open talks with the TalibanComments (…)

    Richard Norton-Taylor
    The Guardian, Tuesday 28 July 2009
    Article history

    A soldier in Gereshk, Afghanistan. Gordon Brown has signalled the end of the first phase of Operation Panther's Claw, aimed at driving back the Taliban. Photograph: Peter Byrne/PA Wire

    A concerted effort to start unprecedented talks between Taliban and British and American envoys was outlined yesterday in a significant change in tactics designed to bring about a breakthrough in the attritional, eight-year conflict in Afghanistan.

    Senior ministers and commanders on the ground believe they have created the right conditions to open up a dialogue with "second-tier" local leaders now the Taliban have been forced back in a swath of Helmand province.

    They are hoping that Britain's continuing military presence in Helmand, strengthened by the arrival of thousands of US troops, will encourage Taliban commanders to end the insurgency. There is even talk in London and Washington of a military "exit strategy".

    Speaking at the end of the five-week Operation Panther's Claw in which hundreds of British troops were reported to have cleared insurgents from a vital region of Helmand province, Lieuten..."''"


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    Unless, of course, he can "talk his way out of it"!

    Britain and US prepared to open talks with the TalibanComments (…)

    Richard Norton-Taylor
    The Guardian, Tuesday 28 July 2009
    Article history

    A soldier in Gereshk, Afghanistan. Gordon Brown has signalled the end of the first phase of Operation Panther's Claw, aimed at driving back the Taliban. Photograph: Peter Byrne/PA Wire

    A concerted effort to start unprecedented talks between Taliban and British and American envoys was outlined yesterday in a significant change in tactics designed to bring about a breakthrough in the attritional, eight-year conflict in Afghanistan.

    Senior ministers and commanders on the ground believe they have created the right conditions to open up a dialogue with "second-tier" local leaders now the Taliban have been forced back in a swath of Helmand province.

    They are hoping that Britain's continuing military presence in Helmand, strengthened by the arrival of thousands of US troops, will encourage Taliban commanders to end the insurgency. There is even talk in London and Washington of a military "exit strategy".

    Speaking at the end of the five-week Operation Panther's Claw in which hundreds of British troops were reported to have cleared insurgents from a vital region of Helmand province, Lieutenant-General Simon Mayall, deputy chief of defence staff, said: "It gives the Taliban 'second tier' room to reconnect with the government and this is absolutely at the heart of this operation."


    Julian Borger: 'There has to be a political solution' Link to this audio The second tier of the insurgency are regarded as crucial because they control large numbers of Taliban fighters in Pashtun-dominated southern Afghanistan. The first tier of Taliban commanders – hardliners around Mullah Omar – could not be expected to start talks in the foreseeable future. The third tier – footsoldiers with no strong commitments – are not regarded as influential or significant players.

    The change in tactics was revealed as the Ministry of Defence announced that two more British soldiers were killed in southern Afghanistan. One, from the Light Dragoons, was on patrol in Operation Panther's Claw; the other, a soldier from the Royal Artillery, was killed on foot patrol in Sangin. Ten soldiers have died in Operation Panther's Claw.

    Mayall is responsible for formulating operational policy in Afghanistan and his remarks gave added weight to interventions by senior ministers yesterday.

    David Miliband, the foreign secretary, and Douglas Alexander, the international development secretary, yesterday held out the prospect of reconciliation between the Afghan government and Taliban fighters prepared to renounce violence.

    For more than a year, British intelligence officers have been instigating contacts with Taliban commanders and their entourage. But their task has been very delicate given the sensitivities of the Karzai administration in Kabul.

    The situation has been complicated further by the influx of hardline and ideologically motivated fighters joining the Taliban and other insurgent groups from across the Pakistani border.

    But the fact that senior ministers and military commanders seized on the apparent success of Operation Panther's Claw to highlight the possibility of talks with the Taliban reflects their concern about the lack of progress so far in Nato's counter-insurgency. Significantly, and as if to counter public aversion to talks with the Taliban, ministers and military commanders alike compared the current campaign in southern Afghanistan to anti-terrorist operations in Northern Ireland.

    A ComRes poll in today's Independent suggests most people now believe British troops should be pulled out of Afghanistan. Most of those who responded (58%) said the Taliban could not be defeated militarily, and 52% of those surveyed said troops should be withdrawn immediately. This compares with a Guardian/ICM poll earlier this month which showed that 42% of those surveyed wanted troops to be withdrawn immediately.

    America's priorities in Afghanistan will be spelled out in a briefing paper drawn up by General Stanley McChrystal, the new US commander in the country, due to be handed to Barack Obama tomorrow.

    He will emphasise the need for speeding up the training of Afghan troops, according to defence sources. He is also expected to ask for more troops from Nato allies. British military commanders are drawing up contingency plans to increase the number of British forces to more than 10,000 from the current 9,000.

    Asked whether he needed more troops, Brigadier Tim Radford, commander of British troops in Helmand, replied: "I have enough forces to do what I set out to do in Panther's Claw."

    The number of British troops that might be deployed in future was "out of my hands", he said. But he added that as the number of Afghan army recruits increased, the number of Nato forces required to train them also increased.

    Miliband's call for talks with more moderate Taliban elements was echoed later by Gordon Brown, who said: "Our strategy has always been to complement the military action that we've got to take to clear the Taliban, to threaten al-Qaida in its bases – while at the same time we put in more money to build the Afghan forces, the troops, the police."
    (more)
  • Sheila Chico 2009/07/28 15:04:25
    Sheila
    I read this this am on Drudge....sickening!! Acting like the Taliban is a legitimate government! I don't know why this suprises me when we are mirandizing terrorists like common criminals.....

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