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Why the Republicans are so upset with Operation Fast and Furious, after all Fast and Furious was conceived, planned, and operated by President George W. Bush Administration?

bob 2012/06/21 15:12:26
In 2006, during the presidency of George W. Bush, the Justice Department launched the first of a series of misguided “gunrunning” schemes that eventually led to the death of federal Agent Brian Terry
Rather than look to ways to prevent such a tragedy from happening again, however, House Oversight Chair Darrell Issa’s (R-CA) spent his tenure as a committee chair trying unsuccessfully to embarrass Attorney General Eric Holder
Issa’s uncovered no evidence showing Holder bears any blame for the botched operations begun under George W. Bush, even though the Justice Department turned over thousands of pages of documents concerning the operations.
Republicans in Congress continued the Bush-era gunrunning operations because they wanted to “us this crisis to somehow take away or limit people’s Second Amendment rights”
But the Bush Administration were actually part of a secret Obama plot to release guns to Mexican drug lords, so that those guns could then be used to kill federal agents, which would then cause a national uprising in support of gun control.
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  • Waldorf 2012/06/21 15:16:23
    None of the above
    Waldorf
    +11
    Holder withdrew the claim that the Bush people were involved in F&F;.

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  • james.g.backus 2012/06/28 23:19:29
    None of the above
    james.g.backus
    +1
    The Republican Party thinks since they pulled this scam on Clinton over 8 years, the sheeple of their party can go another 8 years and $85 million looking for a Lewinski moment. Pathetic GOP theatre for the little minds.
  • teigan 2012/06/26 20:37:50
    None of the above
    teigan
    +1
    Stupid uninformed people drive me nuts. Fast and Furious was not started under the Bush administration. There was a gun walking program under his administration, it was called "Operation Wide Reciever". It was started in 2006 and resulted in lost guns, that is why it was ENDED in 2007. Obama's "Fast and Furious" is this administrations program, lock, stock and barrel. Instead of learning from the failure of Bush's program, these idiots decided to double down on it. Anyone that can google can find the truth, but too many people are just too damn lazy to check facts.
  • bob teigan 2012/07/23 17:57:44
    bob
    so they changed their name so they could feel better about it.
  • teigan bob 2012/07/23 20:01:03
    teigan
    Look up the definition of ended fool. Boy you people sure are lacking in the brain dept. Why do you advertise that, you should be embarrassed by your shortcomings.
  • Red 2012/06/23 03:43:28
  • aherbert Red 2012/06/23 19:45:11
  • ConLibFraud 2012/06/23 02:59:19
    None of the above
    ConLibFraud
    There is only 1 party and you people are so programmed to be divided and separated that you always let the criminals get off the hook.
  • Ev Rom 2012/06/23 02:54:38
    In 2006, during the presidency of George W. Bush, the Justice Department laun...
    Ev Rom
    +1
    I hope this enough to take down BOTH parties, you are dumb if you think Obama/Dems are the only ones involved, this was going on during the Bush years, Obama is covering for his ass and Bush's.
  • teigan Ev Rom 2012/06/26 20:42:51
    teigan
    +1
    Have you ever checked facts on anything? Bush's program was ENDED in 2007 and since he left office, he has no responsibility in the "Fast and Furious" program that was created by Obama's administration. Maybe you can explain how a program that ended in 2007 has anything to do with another program that began two years later after he left office. Operation Wide Reciever was no longer an ongoing program when Obama took office.
  • Ev Rom teigan 2012/06/26 21:24:27
    Ev Rom
    If I used a gun to kill someone, does it matter if I bought it or got it from Bush or Obama? You overlook the fact that BOTH of them supplied criminals with guns. Those guns weren't given to criminals to makes holes in the ground and plant beans.
  • teigan Ev Rom 2012/06/26 21:39:19
    teigan
    What you are over looking is that Bush ended his program which was coordinated with the Mexican government. Obama started a much larger program without coordinating with the Mexican government. Bush put tracers on the guns and actually tracked the guns. Obama program didn't even attempt to track the guns they were supplying to the cartel. Obama's program resulted in the death of a U.S. border patrol agent, Bush's did not. There was no gun running program in place when Obama took office, unless Bush came back and started Fast and Furious, he has no responsibility for the actions of the Obama administration. I haven't overlooked anything, Obama is President the buck stops at his feet. Brian Terry's family wants answers and they deserve to have them. When you supply a weapon to a criminal illegally, you are accountable for the consequences.
  • Ev Rom teigan 2012/06/26 22:03:05
    Ev Rom
    Bush's program was a failure, care to state why? People in Mexico knew about the US providing criminals with guns during Bush. Those guns were not being used to bring about peace LOL. I am sure the parents of the few thousand who died as a result of arming criminals want answers as well, but I know they are Mexican, who cares...
  • teigan Ev Rom 2012/06/26 22:28:07
    teigan
    Do you know what coordinating means? If you want to start an investigation on Bush's program, write your congressman. F & F is the subject of this investigation and has nothing to do with Bush. Those are the facts. Bush's program was ended because they found it too difficult to trace the guns, they lost a few hundred guns. So why would anyone with even a half a brain decide to double down on a program that was proven to be a bad idea? Are they stupid? They not only started the same program but increase the volume resulting in loosing over 2000 guns. Doesn't sound too bright does it? The bottom line is that this program was not Bush's, he had nothing at all to do with it. So the President that is in office right now is accountable. Trying to blame this on Bush is just ignorant.
  • Ev Rom teigan 2012/06/27 01:20:11
    Ev Rom
    "Bush's program was ended because they found it too difficult to trace the guns, they lost a few hundred guns"

    A complete investigation to see if one of Bush's guns that killed that agent is in order.

    I'm not blaming Bush. I am saying he did the same thing, provided criminals with guns and people died as a result, both are criminal activities. I believe Obama is covering his ass as well as Bush's.
  • teigan Ev Rom 2012/06/27 01:33:37
    teigan
    Perhaps you didn't hear, but the gun came from Holder's operation. The serial number was matched to guns sold in Fast and Furious. Do you have an objection to getting answers for Brian Terry's family? By the way Mexico is sueing us, since this operation started thousands of Mexican citizens have been murdered and their tourism business is suffering because the U.S. is warning it's citizens about going to Mexico. The Mexican government was not consulted on this program, so they didn't know what this administration was doing. Bush was working with the Mexican government, they ended it when they found that the cartels had found and were removing the trackers. Holder never would have ended the program if the media hadn't found out about their guns killing Brian Terry. It continued after Brians death, even after they knew it was the guns they sold that killed him.
  • Ev Rom teigan 2012/06/27 01:41:55 (edited)
    Ev Rom
    YOU don't listen. GUNS were used by OUR COUNTRY and as a result PEOPLE died, not just one agent. Keep pretending this is only about Obama.

    When I posted years ago that people in Mexico were talking about the US selling arms to criminals in Mexico and that those criminals were killing more people as a result you conservatives said it was lies if I could not prove it. Now it comes out as fact and all of sudden the death of ONE man is what concerns you. BS, you only wish to use this against Obama. Another one of your desperate attempts and tactics. When you can admit that both presidents did evil things and are possibly responsible for the murder of hundreds of people then I will believe you when you say that this is about Justice FOR ALL who were murdered. Just cuz Mexico told Bush it was OK to give criminals and drug dealers guns doesn't make it any less of a crime, you know perfectly well what those guns are gonna be used for.
  • teigan Ev Rom 2012/06/27 01:48:55
    teigan
    THIS F**king case is about Fast and Furious, Holder and Obama. You seemed to miss that fact. Why don't we handle one F**king case at a time. It's a bit childish to say "well he did it". What is it that you don't understand about governments working together and someone that chooses to load a country with guns without even notifying that country. Are you truely that ignorant? Really? The Mexican government is suing OBAMA not BUSH. Get over it.
  • Ev Rom teigan 2012/06/27 03:23:49
    Ev Rom
    Both are guilty of murdering people by way of giving criminals guns. Period. Where is your outrage over the death of all the other people who got killed? You can only handle murder one case at a time?
  • teigan Ev Rom 2012/06/27 03:32:02
    teigan
    So me the facts on those deaths and I'll show you the outrage. Where's your outrage? Your too busy trying to find a way to make Bush responsible for Obama's actions. I've seen no outrage at this adminstration for Brian Terry's death. Even though his guns have been identified by the serial numbers at numerous murder sites.
  • Ev Rom teigan 2012/06/27 04:09:22
    Ev Rom
    http://www.lostiempos.com/dia...

    You can use a translator if you like but by the time Bush left office 10,000 people had already been killed, some with the weapons Bush allowed to be sold. I am angered by Brian Terry's death and the death of over 70 thousand people now in Mexico. The US hasn't helped by letting criminals get guns under BOTH presidencies. Are you outraged about the 70,000 people dead in Mexico that came with the aid of BOTH US presidents? Maybe you could give the mothers of some of those 70,000 people some answers....
  • teigan Ev Rom 2012/06/27 19:46:53
    teigan
    The biggest difference between the two programs is that "Wide Receiver" was a coordinated effort between the U.S. and Mexico. The failures to make arrests and seize the guns happened in Mexico, their failure. Guns in this operation were traced. Guns in "Fast and Furious" were not traced, the Mexican Government wasn't aware of this operation and as per the Mexican Attorney General Marisela Morales, they in no way would have allowed it. So what was the purpose of selling these guns if they were not going to be traced?

    Wide Receiver failed because of failures within the Mexican government. It was a coordinated effort between two governments.

    Fast and Furious was never coordinated with the Mexican government. Agents were told not to track the buyers and guns were allowed to cross the border freely with no intention of tracking them. What was the purpose?

    Now you can piss and moan and scream unfair all you want but the fact remains that in Fast and Furious over 2500 guns have not been recovered because there was never any intention to track or recover them. They were just suppling guns to the cartel. That is why the Mexican government is suing us. Without their knowledge our government supplied weapons to their criminal drug cartel. The Mexican government is not suing f...

    The biggest difference between the two programs is that "Wide Receiver" was a coordinated effort between the U.S. and Mexico. The failures to make arrests and seize the guns happened in Mexico, their failure. Guns in this operation were traced. Guns in "Fast and Furious" were not traced, the Mexican Government wasn't aware of this operation and as per the Mexican Attorney General Marisela Morales, they in no way would have allowed it. So what was the purpose of selling these guns if they were not going to be traced?

    Wide Receiver failed because of failures within the Mexican government. It was a coordinated effort between two governments.

    Fast and Furious was never coordinated with the Mexican government. Agents were told not to track the buyers and guns were allowed to cross the border freely with no intention of tracking them. What was the purpose?

    Now you can piss and moan and scream unfair all you want but the fact remains that in Fast and Furious over 2500 guns have not been recovered because there was never any intention to track or recover them. They were just suppling guns to the cartel. That is why the Mexican government is suing us. Without their knowledge our government supplied weapons to their criminal drug cartel. The Mexican government is not suing for "Wide Receiver" because they were part of the operation, they can't sue us because of the failures to apprehend on their side of the border. They couldn't very well apprehend in the case of "Fast and Furious" because they were not aware of it and would have stopped it if they were.

    If you are unable to see the difference, it's because you are allowing your bias to get in the way of logic and facts.
    (more)
  • Ev Rom teigan 2012/06/27 20:31:22
    Ev Rom
    70,000 people have died, some in part because of the guns BUSH supplied ALSO. It doesn't matter how coordinated both governments were, they didn't get these guns out to bake cookies they got them out knowing people would die.
  • teigan Ev Rom 2012/06/27 20:38:28
    teigan
    You fail to look at facts and the breakdown on where the failures took place. So go ahead a cry about the investigation on Fast and Furious, that's what you people do best. I knew that it was a waste of time giving you facts, because you're not interested in them. So whine away, in the mean time Mexico will sue over Fast and Furious because they do know a fact when they see one. not fair whine whine
  • Ev Rom teigan 2012/06/27 20:43:52
    Ev Rom
    FACT, criminals were supplied with arms by both Bush, Obama and the Mexican government TO KILL PEOPLE. 70,000 + have died including an American citizen.
  • teigan Ev Rom 2012/06/27 23:40:31
    teigan
    FACT,HOLDER HAD NO, I REPEAT, NO AUTHORIZATION FROM THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT FOR HIS FAST AND FURIOUS OPERATION AND THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO SUE HIS ASS. BUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE GOING TO PAY THE TAP. WHINE SOMEMORE! YOU ARE JUST PISSED BECAUSE HOLDER'S ASS IN ON THE LINE. WHINE ALL YOU WANT, YOU CAN EVEN THROW YOURSELF ON THE FLOOR IF IT HELPS. POST YOUR WHINING SOMEWHERE ELSE
  • Ev Rom teigan 2012/06/28 02:20:11
    Ev Rom
    Then you should have a nice batch of booze, murder is murder, doesn't matter if all governments were in on it.
  • schjaz 2012/06/22 17:05:16
    None of the above
    schjaz
    +1
    Operation Wide Receiver, under Bush, was a coordinated effort with the country of Mexico. All of the weapons were, indeed, retrieved. HOLDER'S plan was a takeoff of the original idea but they did not coordinate with Mexico and I believe their intentions were entirely different. This administration wants gun control and I think they wanted to show how guns were getting from the U.S. into the hands of drug cartels, thereby, pushing this agenda with the American ppl.
  • teigan schjaz 2012/06/26 20:44:11
    teigan
    +1
    Bush's program also ended in 2007, two years prior to this administrations "Fast and Furious".
  • schjaz teigan 2012/06/28 19:25:33
  • frank 2012/06/22 16:18:30
    None of the above
    frank
    +2
    F & F is a completely different case. Holder is guilty of contempt of court and should be fired followed by his boss.
  • Jeff Smith 2012/06/22 13:10:01
    None of the above
    Jeff Smith
    +1
    And the screwing continues.
    Kissinger further stated to the Chinese, this report says, that Obama was a “safe choice” to be an “interim leader” as besides his being a member of the Bush family (Obama is former President George W. Bush’s cousin by blood) his mother, Ann Dunham/Soetoro, was a “prized” CIA asset who was dispatched from Hawaii to Indonesia in 1967, along with seven year-old Barack Obama, to infiltrate villages in Java to carry out a CIA survey of political leanings among the Javanese population and whose “handler” was George H.W. Bush who a few years later became Director of the Central Intelligence Agency.
    Kissinger added, this report says, that by putting Obama in office they were, also, able to secure the passing of draconian new laws in the United States that otherwise wouldn’t have been allowed to pass due to the overwhelming objections of American liberals and progressives, but who now are all but silent as the last vestiges of the US Constitution are being swept away.
    Being ignored by these American liberals and progressives, however, are that the laws being passed by the Obama regime are intended to be used against them and include the power of the US President to designate anyone he so chooses as a “terrorist,” kill them without charges or trial, hold Ame...
    And the screwing continues.
    Kissinger further stated to the Chinese, this report says, that Obama was a “safe choice” to be an “interim leader” as besides his being a member of the Bush family (Obama is former President George W. Bush’s cousin by blood) his mother, Ann Dunham/Soetoro, was a “prized” CIA asset who was dispatched from Hawaii to Indonesia in 1967, along with seven year-old Barack Obama, to infiltrate villages in Java to carry out a CIA survey of political leanings among the Javanese population and whose “handler” was George H.W. Bush who a few years later became Director of the Central Intelligence Agency.
    Kissinger added, this report says, that by putting Obama in office they were, also, able to secure the passing of draconian new laws in the United States that otherwise wouldn’t have been allowed to pass due to the overwhelming objections of American liberals and progressives, but who now are all but silent as the last vestiges of the US Constitution are being swept away.
    Being ignored by these American liberals and progressives, however, are that the laws being passed by the Obama regime are intended to be used against them and include the power of the US President to designate anyone he so chooses as a “terrorist,” kill them without charges or trial, hold American citizens in prison, also without charges or trial, and, under a new law being pushed through the US Congress, would give the US government the power to strip Americans of their citizenship without being convicted of being “hostile” against the United States.
    (more)
  • Radlad 2012/06/22 10:40:55
    None of the above
    Radlad
    +2
    I'll be nice "bob" and just say you are wrong. Operation Fast and Furious started in 2009. Who was president then?
  • bob Radlad 2012/06/22 16:08:50
    bob
    wrong Bush is to blame Fast and Furious had a different name under Bush same Bush corruption. Go figure Republicans try to lay the balme of one of their on Obama.
  • frank bob 2012/06/22 16:18:16
    frank
    +1
    FYI - Operational names do not change from one president to another. F & F is all Omama's.
  • teigan frank 2012/06/26 20:49:19
    teigan
    Bush's program was called "Operation Wide Reciever", not "Fast and Furious". It ended in 2007, two years prior to Obama's F&F. You are correct that Obama owns this.
  • frank teigan 2012/06/26 21:28:49
    frank
    +1
    That is what I was referring to. Two different deals.
  • teigan frank 2012/06/26 21:40:44 (edited)
    teigan
    Yes I know, I thought you were saying that they both had the same name. :)
  • frank teigan 2012/06/26 21:57:07
    frank
    +1
    Sorry for my giving you that impression, I did not mean to.
  • teigan frank 2012/06/26 22:01:42
    teigan
    No worries, I misread it. :)
  • schjaz bob 2012/06/22 17:07:10
    schjaz
    +2
    You should do a little more research. Operation Wide Receiver was a different program and it ended prior to Obama taking office.

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