Why Republicans are Fascist.......

For the Democrats of today to somehow accuse the Republicans of being Fascist is laughable and shows a complete lack of understanding of history and what the term Fascism means. Fascism is a big government central planning philosophy. The opposite of what today’s republicans are pushing for, and exactly what Obama is pushing for. While socialists push for actual state ownership, Obama and the democrats of today push far more of a fascist model where the government controls everything yet keeps ownership private and strongly supporting the politically favored businesses and industries while destroying any company that does not abide by their every wish and every industry that competes with their favored industries. The early progressives that the democrats so proudly name themselves after today were staunch supporters of the Fascists. If you look at Obama’s policies and compare them to Hitler’s or Mussolini’s, they are almost identical. Even down to the siding with the Muslim extremists and spitting in the face of the Jews. Look at all the anti-Semitism in the Occupy Wall Street Movement. Fascist economic policies can certainly perpetuate the redistribution of wealth, they also tend to create powerful privileged elites that leverage tax dollars and political favors so as to manipulate the market in their favor. This is what the democrat party of today is all about. Nearly 200 of his biggest donors have landed plum government jobs and advisory posts, won federal contracts worth millions of dollars for their business interests or attended numerous elite White House meetings and social events, an investigation by iWatch News has found. These “bundlers” raised at least $50,000 — and sometimes more than $500,000 — in campaign donations for Obama’s campaign. The cluster of appointments among top bundlers suggests that the size of the donation may have been a factor at least in getting a foot in the door. Less than one in five at the $50,000 level got an administration position. Half of $200,000 bundlers were picked for some post; 80 percent of the $500,000 bundlers were appointed. Obama has showered his supporters with hundreds of billions in loans, contracts, and hand outs. Fascism is not solely about taking over entire industries, even though they did, it is about using brute government force to force companies to act on the sole benefit of the state. You always hear Democrats talk about how businesses should not act in the interest of profit, but purely for the workers, country and the democrats goals. The notion that businesses operate and make decisions only with the consent of the government is known as fascism. There are already many fascist elements in our so-called capitalist society, and Republicans advocate these policies almost as much as Democrats do. While it sounds good, the system leads to a destruction of innovation and efficiencies and ends up destroying the economy long term. Fascist policies are also expensive. The more a business is forced to comply with decisions against its own financial interest, the more it will have to cut jobs. We all know the employment numbers continue to be wretched. The real cause: Too much fascism. Fascism hurts businesses whether carried out by Republicans or Democrats. What President Obama has been pushing for, and moving toward, is more insidious: government control of the economy, while leaving ownership in private hands. That way, politicians get to call the shots but, when their bright ideas lead to disaster, they can always blame those who own businesses in the private sector. Sound familiar? This is precisely what happened during the recent recession. For example, government-mandated loans aimed at boosting homeownership were clearly among the root causes of the economic downturn - but when the sub-prime bubble burst blame was placed exclusively on “corporate greed.” Of course at the same time politicians were absolving themselves of any responsibility, they were forcing taxpayers to subsidize massive bailouts of these “greedy” financial institutions. This is the basis of fascism’s “third way” between laissez-faire capitalism and Marxism. It’s also precisely the economic system we see at work in America today, a centralized bureaucratic oligarchy in which farm subsidies, investments in “green jobs,” Wall Street bailouts, Export-Import Bank subsidies and numerous other taxpayer-funded incentives manipulate the market to serve specific political purposes. Is any property really “private” if the government can take it based on little more than a whim? And is any sector of the economy really “private” as long as government can swoop in and set its prices and production quotas? And finally, is any market truly “free” if government can compel citizens to make specific purchases? Obama is almost by definition a nouveau fascism. Here are some examples; 1. Fascists are masters of manipulating the media in order to justify their stifling policies just as Joseph Goebbles did as propaganda minister for Hitler’s Nazi regime. As he said, if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people eventually will come to believe it. It is clear that the entire media, universities, and even the grade school teachers unions are pushing the Democrat fascist propaganda. Look at how even thr president directly atttackes and tries to discredit Fox News, the only news source that actually presents both sides to every story. They have Democrats on just about every program stating their views and having open debate, yet the democrats paint them as only showing one side. Where is that on MSNBC, CNN, etc? Lets face it, most of the media simply prints the democrats daily talking points. Hitler attacked any group and attacked and nationalized any media that preached against his policies. 2. Let’s not forget Obama's "Truth Squad" in Missouri, where elected Democrats were cruising the internet looking for examples of those that disagreed with him during the health care debate and threatening to use legal means to suppress opponent's "Lies." 3. Under fascism, the state, through official agencies, controlled all aspects of manufacturing, commerce, finance, and agriculture. Licensing was ubiquitous; no economic activity could be undertaken without government permission. Levels of consumption were dictated by the state, and "excess" incomes had to be surrendered as taxes or "loans". 4. To maintain high employment and minimize popular discontent, fascist governments also undertook massive public-works programs financed by steep taxes, borrowing and fiat money creation. Sound Familiar? 5. Mussolini heaped praise upon FDR's New Deal as "boldly...interventionist in the field of economics." Roosevelt was not reticent in his compliments to Mussolini for the latter's "honest purpose in restoring Italy" and acknowledged that he kept "in fairly close touch with the admirable Italian gentlemen." 6. ObamaCare is not about health care, per se; rather, it is intended to dictate to business and the individual what insurance they must buy, what health care they are allowed to access, and ultimately what behavior is acceptable -- all at the whim of a centralized bureaucracy. 7. The Dodd-Frank Bill firmly establishes the concept of "too big to fail" for certain financial institutions, thereby subjecting them to the absolute control of the state while allowing, and in many cases forcing, others to cease doing business, as well as instituting lending and operating policies determined by government regulators. 8. GM and Chrysler: The Obama regime has thrown out the rule of law when it comes to the rights of private investors by their actions against the bondholders of Chrysler and General Motors, as well as forcefully taking over and operating both companies and others as quasi-private entities. They shut down dealerships that have historically supported Republican candidates and very few that openly supported democrats were shut down. 9. They have chosen which businesses will succeed or fail by the taxpayer financing of companies such a Solyndra among a score of others, others of which have failed. The Obama appointees to the National Labor Relations Board are now dictating to companies where they can locate and are attempting to force their workers into unions without secret ballots. 10. The mantra of public-works spending is alive and well and constantly being used to justify massive government spending. 11. A key characteristic of the reality of fascist thinking is rampant cronyism and corruption. Certain capitalists, wishing to ingratiate themselves with the state, are willing to fund the election of those in power in exchange for favorable government contracts and avoidance of regulatory wrath. Recently, much of Wall Street, Hollywood, the unions, major companies such as General Electric, and the super-wealthy such as Warren Buffett and Soros are willing to sleep with those in power and be used as props in any propaganda campaign initiated by the Obama regime. 12. The Obama administration has, through the Justice Department and other agencies, behaved exactly as many quasi-fascist regimes in the past -- almost all of whom have been governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect themselves and their friends from accountability. 13. When a health insurance company that marketed Medicare policies tried to warn its olicyholders that Obamacare would hurt seniors’insurance programs, the Department of Health and Human Services issued on a gag order on such communications with policyholders. It also said that the warning was misleading, which it was not. When segments of the health insurance industry turned against Obamacare, Mr. Obama threatened to have the antitrust exemption of the industry revoked. When the timing of the threat is taken into account, it is clear that this was revenge and payback for Obamacare criticism. Working in tandem with Mr. Obama, Congressional leaders also issued threats to insurance companies that dared to dissent. 14. Then there was the highly publicized attempt of the Obama Administration to use the National Endowment for the Arts to influence artists and others who received government grants to create “works of art” supporting the Obama program. This is not an isolated example of the illegal and improper use by Mr. Obama of the government to propagandize and campaign. 15. You will probably also recall the White House’s collection of e-mail names, addresses and comments of those making “fishy” comments about Obamacare. He encouraged Americans to send the White House emails or web posts of those that were against Obama Care. Just as Hitler had school children report their parents to the government. 16. Mr. Obama and Democratic Congressional leaders have expressed support for the Employee Free Choice Act, which would abolish the secret ballot in union elections. This shows the willingness of Mr. Obama and the Democratic Party leadership to do anything to satisfy the demands of one of their voting constituencies. In this case, it’s the labor bosses, who want to revive their fortunes by making it easy to organize new unions – without the need to pass the test of a secret ballot obtaining the right to organize a union. 17. In March of 1938 The Nazi Weapons Law was issued. These were it’s main points:  Classified guns for “sporting purposes”.  All citizens who wished to purchase firearms had to register with the Nazi officials and have a background check. This applied only to handguns, not to long guns or ammunition.  Presumed German citizens were hostile and thereby exempted Nazis from the gun control law.  Gave Nazis unrestricted power to decide what kinds of firearms could, or could not be owned by private persons.  The types of ammunition that were legal were subject to control by bureaucrats.  Juveniles under 18 years could not buy firearms and ammunition. Once this had been accomplished, Hitler set his sights on disarming the Jews. In November of the same year, the Minister of the Interior, Wilhelm Frick, passed Regulations Against Jews’ Possession of Weapons Shall I Continue?

Brandon, everything you said here applies to Liberals and Progressives as well. What you are doing is generalizing and when you do that... you are wrong in most cases.

Let's examine the Fascists of Germany which is what you are implying because, like most, you don't know what you are talking about. While true that Hitler admired Mussolini and adopted Fascism when he first came to power, it is untrue that he continued to support it beyond possibly a year. They were called Fascists for that reason and the name held. However, historians and all political analysts recognized decades ago that Hitler was no Fascist... they even developed the term Nazism to redefine his government because Hitler was a Totalitarian meaning he took what he needed to rule from any political ideology.

The Nazi Party was a workers union... meaning they were what Brandon? What is the SEIU and UAW Brandon? They are workers unions! When the Nazi's came to power, they did indeed eliminate all other unions... they eliminated the competition which is a claim many unions have made about the SEIU and which the SEIU has lost several lawsuits in regard to as they have tried to eliminate their rivals and, often illegally, try to steal their membership.

The Nazi Party were environmentalists and fought for animal rights... in fact Brandon, their animal rights laws were copied almost to the letter by many nations including the US. Their record on animal rights when compared to PETA's is actually far better because PETA kills up to 95% of all the animals they "rescue" while the Nazi's didn't have anywhere near that level of kill ratio.

The Nazi's outlawed things like smoking tobacco and countless other things they considered "unhealthy"... who is it Brandon in the US trying to outlaw smoking, trying to stop fast food franchises from selling fatty foods, who try to change everything we do claiming it is unhealthy... it's not the political right is it Brandon, no... it's the political left!

The Nazi's developed a welfare state dictating regular exercise, providing for the elderly, providing for mothers, providing aid to help build homes and they created a universal healthcare system... sounds familiar doesn't it?

They embraced eugenics viewing "undesirables" from the view of eliminating them... Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, had the exact same view except she thought it cruel to kill them after they were born and instead implemented a policy of convincing undesirables to have abortions... today, black women have two to three times as many abortions than white women and minorities as a whole (with the exception of Asians) have more abortions per population statistics than white women do and the main reason is Planned Parenthood targets minority communities more than any other community.

Nazi's forced men who were undesirables to be sterilized or tricked them into doing it and used undesirables such as blacks, the mentally ill and criminals for inhuman experimentation... Liberals in the US did the same damn thing and into the late 70's continued to push mandatory sterilization for those with inherited genetic defects like downs syndrome just as they sterilized men who were undesirables into the 1960's often through trickery and deceit.

The political / religious right did none of that because, as you well know, they opposed the very sciences that Liberals embraced!

The Nazi's were not Capitalists. In fact, the Nazi's were a workers union and when they came to power... Hitler dictated they give him 10% of all profits and they did what he told them to do where benefits and wages were concerned thus fulfilling his promises as leader of the German nations only surviving union! If corporate leaders did as they were told, they earned profit... if they did not, they were executed or sent to prison.

The Nazi's were Christians? In fact, they were not. Many of the leading Nazi's were known occultists. The German people were overwhelmingly Christian and rightwing but like how he took over the true German military by executing the leaders of his own Brown Shirts in the Night of Long Knives, Hitler said and wrote what was necessary to win support from the people when almost nothing Hitler did had any religious truth to it... he was the ultimate con artist.

The confusion comes from Hitler initially supporting Mussolini's Fascism out of admiration for the Italian dictator. But Hitler quickly realized how weak Fascism was as Mussolini couldn't get any of his corporations to do a damn thing he wanted. He fought most of WWII using equipment from the First World War because his business leaders saw no reason to create anything new for him being there was no profit to be made from war in their view. Mussolini couldn't even make his soldiers fight as that was a lead reason Italy failed in battle so often because many in his army just tossed down their guns and surrendered rather than fight for a cause they didn't believe in.

When you actually compare the political left and the political right to Nazi Germany... it's the political left which comes out like Nazi Germany to a much higher degree.

When you compare the political right to Fascist Italy, then you get an appropriate comparison because the political right did control Fascist Italy to a point most in Italy didn't do a damn thing Mussolini wanted and his Fascist government was so weak that local communities simply refused to obey and their government couldn't do a thing to make them obey.

True, the German people were nationalists but then... they are an even younger nation than the United States and you expect strong nationalism from such a nation overcoming thousands of years of division as separate kingdoms. Germany existed as an identity for the various kingdoms, territories and the region as a whole... but it was not a true nation until Otto von Bismarck made it into one. They were mostly Christian because they had been ruled by the Holy Roman Empire which forced them to be Christian and to accept rightwing views... but as they began to emerge from that period, Germany became a nation torn by new ideals and social reforms as the left came to power.

You make one huge mistake Brandon in defining left vs right... the left you know today is not the left of Hitlers time.

In Hitlers time, many on the left believed in eugenics which actually justified his views of racial superiority and purity... this is why most leftwingers at the time here in the US also believed such things... Margaret Sanger as just one of numerous people. Eugenics and ideals of racial purity are all based on science and as you guys on the left always point out... the right are dominated by Christian views and stand against science.

In fact, you see it today when you look at Pro Life (rightwing and Christian by majority) vs Pro Choice (mostly leftwing and atheist).

You don't get it because you don't know your history and just blindly follow the arguments made by people trying to place todays values and ideological views on past generations.

Fascism is indeed a rightwing policy and it is dominated by Plutocracy... but the implication you are making is to align it with Nazi Germany and this is a complete falsehood.

Hitler and the Brownshirts were Liberals. Ernst Rohm was an openly gay man and a child molester which were frowned on by rightwing Christians. In fact, we have NAMBLA today here in North America and these "boy lovers" are mostly leftwing similar to Rohm who was leader of the Brownshirts second only to Hitler. When you examine the Brownshirts, you find a completely different view of the Nazi's because almost all of their views were leftwing... and almost all of the leaders closest to Hitler after he came to power had been Brownshirts with Hitler.

Look at #8 you list here...

Quote
Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed
to the government's policies or actions.

Damn, once again enough said.
End Quote

In other words, they pretend to be supporters of religion and use it to manipulate the people... there are millions of leftwing Christians who profess religious belief but then place the power of government above religion to a point it not only contradicts but opposes the major tenets of the religion... Damn dude, you described the political left to a tee on this one or at least you proved only that the political right can be as bad as the political left.

I love you guys who don't have a damn clue what you are talking about as you have copied something from others who were trying to attack the political right claiming they are Fascist in line with Nazi Germany... in fact, they are in line with Fascist Italy perhaps but in no way are they alike with Nazi Germany.

If you view todays Liberals and Progressives as compared with the past, their is a thin veneer of difference. The left today prides itself on being anti war... yet we get a supposedly leftwing President and suddenly, they're supportive of waging war on every country in the whole damn world in the name of spreading Democracy if the leftwing president wants it. you claim you support freedom of speech but then attack your political opposition and try to deny them this right when they're doing nothing you didn't do when we had a Republican President!

In every way, you guys on the left prove to be the nations biggest hypocrites and among our least educated when you like to claim you are our nations intellectual elite... true, many Liberals and Progressives seek careers in our fields of education... also true that Communists and Socialists in every nation they eventually overthrew and drove into ruin did the same thing which means what exactly?

As a Centrist, I agree with you that the political right have a lot of problems because Plutocracy is in itself a great evil where we are all dollar signs and a persons worth is based entirely on your productive ability like all livestock... whatever earns the most money gets the most attention and the best treatment.

Plutocracy, however, is completely different from Nazism as Hitlers ruling elite all hated Fascism and supported Capitalism only from the point of view of Union leaders who gained power over corporations to make them do what they want them to do!

Fascism = Fascist Italy
Totalitarianism = Nazi Germany

Trying to give the US Federal Government ever more sweeping powers when you have control is what the left does every time they gain power forgetting that they will not always be in power within a nation which possesses the freedom to vote... something Hitler eliminated when he got to power because eliminating free elections was the only way he could preserve his power. Prior to being made Chancellor by Hindenburg, the Nazi party had all but been destroyed by free elections and Hitler admitted that he was at the verge of suicide when this happened because the left even in his time did not view suicide as an evil or bad thing. It was when he was appointed Chancellor (he did not win the position through election but was given the position much as our Presidents appoint Czars today)... he was able to appear powerful and he was the only one the German people would listen too after several elections led to stalemate and governments resigning calling for new leadership.

In fact Brandon, Fascism survived in Spain until the death of Franco and Spain didn't become what Nazi Germany became by any comparison... it was, however, something which could be compared to Mussolini's Italy as Franco did not possess full power over his corporations any better than Mussolini, he was just a more intelligent man than Mussolini which helped him maintain power.

The German people were afraid, they were suffering, they were divided against one another, they were electing leaders for reasons that had nothing to do with leadership ability and they were confused because everything they believed in was falling apart... and isn't this where we are in America today?

Fascism and Plutocracy do share things in common... but then, you weren't comparing the Republicans to Mussolini or Franco were you.

You were comparing them to Nazi Germany and I'm sorry to break it to you... but it's the left which the Nazi's embraced more than anything beyond what you pointed out in regards to "manipulating" religion which was what Hitler did if you'll remember. While rightwing politicians may be about as religious as Obama is Hungarian, at least they come from religious communities and Christian culture where the Nazi's did not beyond making whatever appearances were necessary to keep the people blissfully unaware they were being manipulated by people whose true views stood against everything they believed in as Christians.

Ahh but then the definition of Conservative in the US is different than in the UK just as the term Liberal is. In the US, the left believes that the Nazi's in Germany were rightwing and Fascist... they were not. Mussolini was a Fascist and his country was controlled by it's corporations to a point he fought most of WWII using WWI technology because his corporations refused to build him more modern equipment because they saw no profit in it just as his soldiers tossed down their weapons in numerous cases preferring to be captured rather than fight for something they didn't believe in.

Hitler and the Brownshirts were leftwing. This is something most forget when they try to label the Nazi's rightwing. Hitlers nazi Party was almost destroyed by voters and he was on the verge of suicide before von Papen manipulated Hindenburg into making Hitler Chancellor of Germany. Post WWI Germany was in chaos. Private militia's were everywhere, it's economy was shattered, political parties divided the people against one another blaming everyone but themselves, the people were voting for leaders for all the wrong reasons so that few of those leaders had any real leadership ability, several governments elected to serve were forced to resign and call new elections because they could not resolve the nations problems being so divided against one another with so few real leaders to put forth any real answers.

The Night of Long Knives was the elimination of the Brownshirt leaders to give Hitler power over the real German army but all the men Hitler brought with him were still leftwing in their views. Everything from animal rights and the environment to social programs and universal healthcare were identical to todays leftwing views.

The inhuman medical experiments and racial purification... all born of science and leftwing views. Leftwingers deny this but cannot deny that they were behind the sterilization of the mentally ill and minorities who also became victims of medical experimentation leftwingers supported. All of Hitlers views on racial purification were leftwing science which at the end of the 19th century and beginning of the 20th century was exceptionally cruel. Look up eugenics which taught that only the physically and mentally fit should be allowed to live and established views on race where it was easy to justify exterminating anyone who did not meet a leftwing view on what was the norm.

Liberals did eventually change their views but not entirely as Margaret Sanger was a leftwinger, an Atheist and she subscribed to almost all of Hitlers views except that she thought it cruel to kill undesirables while they were alive... they should be convinced to have abortions and be sterilized. Margaret Sanger was the founder of Planned Parenthood and her views were heavily adopted by Pro Choice... then exceeded as Sanger believed human life began at conception and that any woman who knows about birth control but becomes pregnant having consentual sex was a dimwitted moron if they then wanted to have an abortion. Sangers writings are well documented and they are by her own hand so there are no misconceptions about her views.

In the US, you do indeed get tax breaks and a refund of part of what they donate at the end of the year... but this applies to all Americans and not just employers. Our tax laws here were created to alleviate opposition to taxation as we are a nation which has never supported taxation where we see money wasted or stolen from us.

In this Jonathon, I'll give you one glaring example... our Medicare and Medicaid programs lose over $65 billion a year to fraud that our government knows about and there are tens of billions of dollars they admit they don't know about every year. Big Pharma and the healthcare lobbies pay off our leaders to purposely underfund the FDA so they don't have the resources to fight fraud and barely have the resources to rubber stamp every payment put forth to the US government to pay. But when they do investigate a hospital, they barely scratch the surface and millions of dollars in fraud comes bubbling out.

After the 2006 elections, Big Pharma and the healthcare industry began giving more lobby money to the Democrats and Obama gave them a huge present for doing it by excluding them from his Obamacare programs for ten years. Sure Big Pharma promised $80 billion in rebates over that ten year period but when you consider we lose that much to fraud every year and that they are free to simply raise costs for healthcare services by $800 billion if they want because there are no price controls with them being exempt from Obamacare... who gave these people a winfall? Then, when the 2010 elections gave Republicans power and it's clear the Democrats are going to lose, Big Pharma and the healthcare lobby toss their support behind Republicans so that when the ten years are up... they'll use their money to kill Obamacare (if it survives) before it ever is imposed on them.

You can tell Obama's supporters to examine his voting record and they will not do it... but anyone who does is shocked to find that Obama votes most of the time with the political right and when he became a US Senator, he never once voted against Bush but voted instead for everything bush wanted... he even provided Bush with Democrat votes when Bush didn't have enough Republican support in his second term.

See, Obama is a Neocon and he knew his career would be limited as a Republican... so he became a Democrat. He knew the lefts views on race so he played the race card to get their blind support but at least half the Democrat Party here are rightwing or right leaning Moderates and he had to vote for what they wanted to win their votes. He not only supported Bush but actually voted against leftwing legislation numerous times in favor of the Republicans.

All this talk about racism... they admit had they elected a white Democrat that Republicans would have treated him the same way so where's the racism? The racism is among the political left as they cannot see a black man as anything but a victim so that even if there is a valid reason to criticize Obama... they'll call you a racist to counter the criticism.

I am a Centrist... people on the left find that hard to believe since I am almost always against them but then, I was against bush and the Republicans when he was President. I did not support and vote for Obama just to see him and his supporters become no damn better than Bush and the Republicans.

In the US, we have reached a point to where we no longer care if our leaders have any real leadership ability... all that matters is beating the other side to keep them from forcing their views down our throats.

Look at our two choices for President, a Democrat whose actual voting record makes him look like a rightwing extremist who caves to the right most of the time even when he claims to support the left... and a leftwing Republicans whose playing the same damn game claiming to be a rightwinger when his voting record reveals he's a leftwinger and he always caves to the left. Republicans actually have the gall to point out that yeah, Romneycare in Massachusetts is almost identical to Obamacare but Ted Kennedy and the Democrats rewrote it... but Romney left his name on it, signed it and to this day takes credit for it so how damn stupid is it that they have Romney as their candidate and the Liberal / Progressive Democrats have Obama?

You will not understand politics in the US or our policies by listening to supporters of Obama and Romney... they are sheep blindly walking to slaughter who know nothing about their candidates other than blindly believing what they say which presents only a mirror of what you think reflects your views not understanding that it's a two way mirror where you may see yourself being reflected in the candidate, but what lay behind that mirror is something you cannot see unless you have the strength of character and integrity to break that mirror to see the candidates for what they are.

Remember the Wizard of Oz? The Wizard was meant to warn us about our leaders being this way as he wasn't what he claimed, but as long as people only saw the all powerful Oz... he could make them do everything he wanted. But when they looked behind the curtain, they saw a scared little man who may have had goodness and wisdom within him, but he had become lost in the power of being Oz and in doing so, became cruel and ignorant bereft of any real leadership ability.

That's what America's leaders have become... too many curtains and not enough leaders willing to remove the curtains to let us see them for what they are.