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Why is the redistribution of wealth from the middle class and lower income people to the richest Americans, through "Supply Side Economics, okay but when you want to end the bush "temporary" tax cuts it is suddenly class warfare and Marxism?

Bob™ the Union Ironworker 2011/12/11 14:50:20
Why is cutting payroll taxes of middle class Americans Marxism yet when Reagan and Bush redistributed wealth form the lower and middle classes it is okay?

Giving tax breaks to the middle class is smart economics, middle class people spend money back in the economy. Progressive Taxation was the norm in American until the fringe economist types got the ear of an old man suffering from Alzheimer's, Ronald Reagan. It is all in the numbers. The richest Americans already have more than they can spend so it is not getting put back into the economy, that is why most mainstream economists and even Reagan's own Economic Guru David Stockman say that Supply Side aka Trickle Down aka Voodoo Economics is a complete and utter failure.

How can you attack a tax break for middle income Americans and defend how Bush gave "temporary" tax cuts to the richest Americans......that is wealth redistribution and it was very successful.


The latest U.S. Census Bureau figures indicate an unprecedented income gap between the richest and poorest Americans.

It's the Inequality, Stupid



Eleven charts that explain what's wrong with America.

—By Dave Gilson and Carolyn Perot

| March/April 2011 Issue3317

Want more charts like these? See our charts on the secrets of the jobless recovery, the richest 1 percent of Americans, and how the superwealthy beat the IRS.


How Rich Are the Superrich?
A huge share of the nation's economic growth over the
past 30 years has gone to the top one-hundredth of one percent, who now
make an average of $27 million per household. The average income for the
bottom 90 percent of us? $31,244.

Average Income by Family, distributed by income group.




Advertise on MotherJones.com

The richest controls 2/3 of America's net worth


Note: The 2007 data (the most current) doesn't reflect
the impact of the housing market crash. In 2007, the bottom 60% of
Americans had 65% of their net worth tied up in their homes. The top 1%,
in contrast, had just 10%. The housing crisis has no doubt further
swelled the share of total net worth held by the superrich.
Winners Take All
The superrich have grabbed the bulk of the past three decades' gains.

Aevrage Household income before taxes.


Download: PDF chart 1 (large) PDF chart 2 (large) | JPG chart 1 (smaller) JPG chart 2 (smaller)


Out of Balance
A Harvard business prof and a behavioral economist
recently asked more than 5,000 Americans how they thought wealth is
distributed in the United States. Most thought that it’s more balanced
than it actually is. Asked to choose their ideal distribution of wealth,
92% picked one that was even more equitable.

Average Income by Family, distributed by income group.


Download: PDF (large) | JPG (smaller)


Capitol Gain
Why Washington is closer to Wall Street than Main Street.
median net worth of american families, median net worth for mebers of congress, your odds of being a millionaire, member of congress's odds of being a millionaire


member max. est. net worth
Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) $451.1 million
Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif.) $435.4 million
Rep. Vern Buchanan (R-Fla.) $366.2 million
Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) $294.9 million
Rep. Jared Polis (D-Colo.) $285.1 million
Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.) $283.1 million
Sen. Herb Kohl (D-Wisc.) $231.2 million
Rep. Michael McCaul (R-Texas) $201.5 million
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-W.Va.) $136.2 million
Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) $108.1 million
combined net worth: $2.8 billion

10 Richest Members of Congress 100% Voted to extend the cuts

Congressional data from 2009. Family net worth data from 2007. Sources: Center for Responsive Politics; US Census; Edward Wolff, Bard College.


Download: PDF (large) | JPG (smaller)



Who's Winning?
For a healthy few, it's getting better all the time.

Gains and Losses in 2007-2009, Average CEO Pay vs. Average Worker Pay


Download: PDF (large) | JPG (smaller)

A millionaire's tax rate, now and then. Share of Federal Tax revenue


Download: PDF (large) | JPG (smaller)



YOUR LOSS,THEIR GAIN
How much income have you given up for the top 1 percent?


Download: PDF (large) | JPG (smaller)




WANT MORE CHARTS&nb...;

See our charts on the secrets of the jobless recovery, the richest 1 percent of Americans, and how the superwealthy beat the IRS. Some samples:


YOU HAVE NOTHING&nb...;
Productivity has surged, but income and wages have
stagnated for most Americans. If the median household income had kept
pace with the economy since 1970, it would now be nearly $92,000, not
$50,000.



MEET THE ELITE
ONLY LITTLE PEOPLE&...





Sources



Income distribution: Emmanuel Saez (Excel)




Net worth: Edward Wolff (PDF)


Household income/income share: Congressional Budget Office


Real vs. desired distribution of wealth: Michael I. Norton and Dan Ariely (PDF)


Net worth of Americans vs. Congress: Federal Reserve (average); Center for Responsive Politics (Congress)


Your chances of being a millionaire: Calculation based on data from Wolff (PDF); US Census (household and population data)


Member of Congress' chances: Center for Responsive Politics


Wealthiest members of Congress: Center for Responsive Politics


Tax cut votes: New York Times (Senate; House)


Wall street profits, 2007-2009: New York State Comptroller (PDF)


Unemployment rate, 2007-2009: Bureau of Labor Statistics


Home equity, 2007-2009: Federal Reserve, Flow of Funds data, 1995-2004 and 2005-2009 (PDFs)


CEO vs. worker pay: Economic Policy Institute


Historic tax rates: Calculations based on data from The Tax Foundation


Federal tax revenue: Joint Committee on Taxation (PDF)



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Top Opinion

  • Anonymouse BN-0 ~bibbityboo~ 2011/12/11 15:13:38
    Anonymouse BN-0 ~bibbityboo~
    +10
    Because conservatives don't realise that the working classes aren't lazy, but are mostly unable to rise through the classes. And most working class workers have working class parents, whilst upper middle classes have middle/upper class children.

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  • AtoXTC 2011/12/31 01:42:38
  • luvguins 2011/12/15 18:47:40
    luvguins
    +2
    Maybe the corporations can cannibalize each other when they further tank the incomes of the majority of the consumers as those consumers will be made unable afford their goods.
  • middlesex1957 2011/12/15 02:56:50
    middlesex1957
    +2
    Oooo, nice list of stats. Hey, the last time an economy looked like this with so few being so rich while so many had so little every single rich person, their children, employees, and servants were all slaughtered. I read that the last head roled in 1928. The guillotines are probably all worn out so we'll have to build our own I guess. ;)
  • ☆stillthe12c☆ 2011/12/13 22:47:27
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    It is bad at both end. We need to striking a balance and no one seems to be trying to do this. Trickle down did not work because the money was invested in mfg. in foreign countries. Tax incentives were given to take there companies off shore and gain greater profits. Bill like NAFTA and such helped the to do this. Playing Robin Hood is just as bad. I have no problem with taxing the wealthy more, but we need to give companies an incentive to move back to this country. That is done by re-writing our regulation and giving the tax breaks that are competitive.
    We are allowing a small group of very wealthy people run the nation. Like the Green movement. Keeping us from drilling for oil here that we need to supply cheap energy. This guy's are set to make money at both end Selling the oil and then with making money on cap and trade and carbon taxes and the American people are swallowing it hook line and sinker. Such as the Koch Brother Soros and even Al Gore. These people do not have our best interest in mind. They are interested in taking our money.
  • morning40oz~mad as hell 2011/12/12 16:43:56
    morning40oz~mad as hell
    +1
    The problem didn't start with Obama. That much is obvious. However, he is no less a puppet than his predecessors. Until both sides realize this, the bickering will continue and our country will continue to get screwed and continue on its path of destruction.
  • Bob™ th... morning... 2011/12/12 19:31:21
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker
    +2
    another parroted Ron Paul talking point about how both sides are bad.....Well Paul is a Republican....A man of real Character would run as an Independent like Bernie Sanders



  • Emanon Bob™ th... 2011/12/12 19:34:12
    Emanon
    +1
    Sanders, one of my favorite senators.
  • luvguins Emanon 2011/12/15 18:10:40
    luvguins
    +2
    Mine too. He sees clearly the GOPs attack on the middle class.
  • Emanon luvguins 2011/12/15 19:19:22
    Emanon
    I wish he could run and win but... not being a member of a major party I do not expect him to
  • luvguins Emanon 2011/12/15 19:28:41
    luvguins
    +1
    Doubt that too, and it is a shame.
  • Lady Yui Bob™ th... 2011/12/12 20:56:26
    Lady Yui
    +1
    Ron Paul is a Libertarian who runs under a Republican ticket because he's not an idiot and knows that in order to actually do any good, he first has to get elected, and the failure of an education system that has been set up for generations in this country has all but guaranteed a population that doesn't know what to do with a major candidate who isn't either Republican or Democrat.
  • Bob™ th... Lady Yui 2011/12/13 05:00:28
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker
    +1
    he is a republican he votes with them other than the war stuff he is the same but on steroids.
  • Lady Yui Bob™ th... 2011/12/13 18:00:01
    Lady Yui
    You haven't actually researched Dr. Paul's voting record....have you?
  • Bob™ th... Lady Yui 2011/12/13 21:47:25
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker
    +2
    other than the Fed and the Wars he has consistently voted with the GOP block he is just ANOTHER NO IN THE PARTY OF NO

    Ron Paul would watch America burn as he dismantles the government. He would allow corporations to do whatever they want in a totally unregulated market with zero accountability. He would eliminate the federal agencies that help and protect Americans. He doesn’t care about the middle class. He doesn’t care about kids. And he certainly doesn’t care about the well being of the country. Electing Ron Paul to the Presidency would be one of the biggest mistakes in the history of American elections. You can bet that what he does as President will mirror his long career in the House of Representatives. Ron Paul is not the man Americans need to occupy the White House.

    The Candidate Of ‘NO’: Legislation Ron Paul Has Voted Against
    December 7, 2011
    By Stephen D. Foster Jr.

    Ron Paul is one of those politicians who says no for a living. As a representative of Texas, Paul has surprisingly voted against quite a few pieces of legislation that would shock many Americans. Paul has tried to sell himself as a defender of American liberty and freedom, but unfortunately, his decisions often go against what the people want and need and against all moral conscience. Considering the seriousn...

































    &





































    other than the Fed and the Wars he has consistently voted with the GOP block he is just ANOTHER NO IN THE PARTY OF NO

    Ron Paul would watch America burn as he dismantles the government. He would allow corporations to do whatever they want in a totally unregulated market with zero accountability. He would eliminate the federal agencies that help and protect Americans. He doesn’t care about the middle class. He doesn’t care about kids. And he certainly doesn’t care about the well being of the country. Electing Ron Paul to the Presidency would be one of the biggest mistakes in the history of American elections. You can bet that what he does as President will mirror his long career in the House of Representatives. Ron Paul is not the man Americans need to occupy the White House.

    The Candidate Of ‘NO’: Legislation Ron Paul Has Voted Against
    December 7, 2011
    By Stephen D. Foster Jr.

    Ron Paul is one of those politicians who says no for a living. As a representative of Texas, Paul has surprisingly voted against quite a few pieces of legislation that would shock many Americans. Paul has tried to sell himself as a defender of American liberty and freedom, but unfortunately, his decisions often go against what the people want and need and against all moral conscience. Considering the seriousness of the problems Americans face, you would think Ron Paul would say yes more often. But he has voted against so many bills that he was dubbed “Dr. No” by his congressional colleagues in 2007. Here are some of the many bills Ron Paul has voted against.

    1. In July 2009, Paul voted NO on $192B in additional stimulus spending to be used for aiding the economy. Apparently Paul wanted the economy to fail.

    2. In March 2009, Paul voted NO on modifying bankruptcy rules to avoid mortgage foreclosures. That’s right, Paul is completely fine with banks taking homes away from innocent people who were thrust into poverty by the banks in the first place.

    3. In January 2009, Paul voted NO on an additional $825B for the economic recovery package. Paul apparently didn’t care about the failing economy and decided to sit on his hands.

    4. In January 2009, Paul also voted NO on monitoring TARP funds to ensure more mortgage relief. Paul doesn’t give a damn about struggling homeowners.

    5. In December 2008, Paul voted NO on the $15B bailout for GM and Chrysler. If Paul had his way, the American auto industry would no longer exist, and millions of Americans would be jobless.

    6. In September 2008, Paul voted NO on a $60B stimulus package for jobs, infrastructure, and energy, demonstrating once again that Paul doesn’t care about America and the people.

    7. In July 2009, Paul voted NO on letting shareholders vote on executive compensation. Apparently Paul has no problem assisting the greedy corporate bastards of Wall Street while ordinary Americans suffer. Paul voted the same way when a similar bill came up for a vote in 2007, just before those same executives crashed the economy with their greed.

    8. In April 2009, Paul voted NO on enforcing against anti-gay hate crimes. Paul hates the LGBT community and civil rights. And apparently he supports hate crimes.

    9. In May 2009, Paul voted NO on $40B for green public schools. Not only does this show Paul’s unwillingness to help rebuild American infrastructure, it demonstrates his disdain for energy efficiency that would help put his Koch pals out of business.

    10. In June 2009, Paul voted NO on enforcing limits on CO2 global warming pollution. Paul must really love the Koch brothers, and pollution.

    11. In September 2008, Paul voted NO on tax credits for renewable electricity, demonstrating again that Paul is the lackey of big oil and big coal.

    12. In May 2008, Paul voted NO on tax incentives for energy production and conservation. Considering America has an energy crisis, you would think Paul would be all for saving energy but that wouldn’t help the Kochs’ profits very much.

    13. In February 2008, Paul voted NO on tax incentives for renewable energy. Of course he voted against them. Helping his Koch buddies is more important to Paul than an energy independent America.

    14. In May 2007, Paul voted NO on criminalizing oil cartels like OPEC. Of course he did. Texas politicians love Middle Eastern oil.

    15. In January 2007, Paul voted NO on removing oil and gas exploration subsidies. This shows how biased Paul is when it comes to energy. He votes against tax incentives for renewable energy companies but refuses to take billions of taxpayer dollars away from big oil. The Kochs must be so proud.

    16. In June 2006, Paul voted NO on keeping the moratorium on drilling for oil offshore. Just a couple years later, an offshore oil rig exploded in the Gulf, causing a massive spill that severely affected the economy of the Gulf coast. Once again, the Kochs must be so proud of their little Ronny.

    17. In August 2001, Paul voted NO on prohibiting oil drilling & development in ANWR. Barry Goldwater would slap Paul for this vote. Goldwater cared about the environment, unlike Paul, who only strives to please his oil industry masters.

    18. In June 2000, Paul voted NO on starting implementation of Kyoto Protocol, demonstrating just how much Paul hates the earth.

    19. In June 2008, Paul voted NO on $9.7B for Amtrak improvements and operation through 2013. See, Paul really doesn’t care about infrastructure in America.

    20. In June 2006, Paul voted NO on increasing Amtrak funding by adding $214M to $900M. Apparently Paul has never cared about infrastructure. If America were on fire he’d gleefully watch it burn from a White House window.

    21. In June 2009, Paul voted NO on four weeks of paid parental leave for federal employees. So much for family values. Paul doesn’t even want to allow employees to spend time with their newborns.

    22. In April 2003, Paul voted NO on establishing nationwide AMBER alert system for missing kids. Apparently missing kids are of no concern to Ron Paul. I can see the endorsements now. ‘Pedophiles for Ron Paul!’

    23. In November 2007, Paul voted NO on $23B for waterway infrastructure. Who cares if America crumbles? Not Ron Paul.

    24. In May 2007, Paul voted NO on requiring lobbyist disclosure of bundled donations. Paul is pro-lobbyist. Ever wonder how much they pay him to vote their way?

    25. In April 2007, Paul voted NO on granting Washington DC an Electoral vote and a vote in Congress. Ron Paul is against fair representation. Who knew?

    26. In April 2009, Paul voted NO on regulating tobacco as a drug. Now we know another lobby that pays Paul.

    27. In January 2009, Paul voted NO on expanding the Children’s Health Insurance Program. So Paul doesn’t care if your child goes missing, and he doesn’t care if your child is sick or hurt either. Prick.

    28. In July 2008, Paul voted NO on an overriding veto on expansion of Medicare. And he has the nerve to call himself a doctor. Without Medicare, seniors wouldn’t be able to afford health care.

    29. In March 2008, Paul voted NO on giving mental health full equity with physical health. Seriously, Ron Paul is one sorry excuse for a doctor. Probably why he ran for Congress.

    30. In January 2008, Paul voted NO on extending SCHIP to cover 6 million more kids. Once again, Paul shows how little he cares about children. He has no problem voting for bills that protect fetuses, but once they are born, Paul becomes a heartless monster. He voted similarly in 2007.

    31. In March 2008, Paul voted NO on requiring FISA warrants for wiretaps in the US, but not abroad. In other words, Paul has no problem suspending the Constitution in America but is concerned about the rights of terrorists abroad.

    32. In October 2008, Paul voted NO on extending unemployment benefits from 39 weeks to 59 weeks. Ron Paul obviously loves corporate executives and hates the unemployed even though those same corporate execs were the ones who fired the unemployed in the first place out of greed.

    33. In March 2007, Paul voted NO on restricting employer interference in union organizing. In other words, Paul completely supports employer efforts to sabotage and break up unions.

    34. In January 2007, Paul voted NO on increasing minimum wage to $7.25. So he is fine with corporate execs making billions off the backs of their employees, but he has a problem with the rest of us making a decent living.

    35. In May 1999, Paul voted NO on strengthening the Social Security Lockbox. The man who preaches about government responsibility is against keeping politicians from taking money from the Social Security fund for other uses. In other words, he calls legal taxation ‘theft,’ but approves of real theft of retirement money from hard working Americans.

    Ron Paul would watch America burn as he dismantles the government. He would allow corporations to do whatever they want in a totally unregulated market with zero accountability. He would eliminate the federal agencies that help and protect Americans. He doesn’t care about the middle class. He doesn’t care about kids. And he certainly doesn’t care about the well being of the country. Electing Ron Paul to the Presidency would be one of the biggest mistakes in the history of American elections. You can bet that what he does as President will mirror his long career in the House of Representatives. Ron Paul is not the man Americans need to occupy the White House.
    (more)
  • Lady Yui Bob™ th... 2011/12/14 20:54:12
    Lady Yui
    Ron Paul cares a great deal about the well being of the country. And he's a man who recognizes that the government is NOT the solution to our problems. You're a tool who is doing nothing more than parroting the words of other people which you can't even understand. He votes no on stimulus packages and government regulations and minimum wage hikes! Oh no! Try this on for size...he votes no on things which increase the authority and power of the federal government, because that authority and power are not within the scope of powers that the Constitution allows the government to have. Wake the frak up.

    Government spending does not fix the economy. In order for the government to spend anything, it has to take that money away from you and me and the PRODUCERS. Government produces nothing, and its spending therefore also does nothing to produce anything which adds to the value of the economy. The economy only GROWS when value is ADDED to it.

    It is not the job of the government to give people things for free. Why the hell should someone get paid to take a month off to "spend time with the baby?" Responsible people who decide to have children and want to take that kind of time off have done this little thing called SAVING in order to be able to afford to do so. Infrastructure? Yeah, th...









    Ron Paul cares a great deal about the well being of the country. And he's a man who recognizes that the government is NOT the solution to our problems. You're a tool who is doing nothing more than parroting the words of other people which you can't even understand. He votes no on stimulus packages and government regulations and minimum wage hikes! Oh no! Try this on for size...he votes no on things which increase the authority and power of the federal government, because that authority and power are not within the scope of powers that the Constitution allows the government to have. Wake the frak up.

    Government spending does not fix the economy. In order for the government to spend anything, it has to take that money away from you and me and the PRODUCERS. Government produces nothing, and its spending therefore also does nothing to produce anything which adds to the value of the economy. The economy only GROWS when value is ADDED to it.

    It is not the job of the government to give people things for free. Why the hell should someone get paid to take a month off to "spend time with the baby?" Responsible people who decide to have children and want to take that kind of time off have done this little thing called SAVING in order to be able to afford to do so. Infrastructure? Yeah, that's not a FEDERAL power, that is a STATE concern. Oh, and speaking of States....the District of Columbia is not a State. It doesn't get a seat in Congress or an Electoral vote because...it isn't a State! It was very specifically created to NOT be a State, in fact.

    Unemployment benefits are already WAY above and beyond reasonable limits. If you need two fraking YEARS to find a job, then you're doing it WRONG. I don't really give a flying rat's ass if you can only find a job that pays half of what your last job paid. You take what you can fraking get. And if you have to readjust and downgrade your lifestyle because you can't afford to continue living the way you used to....too damn bad. Suck it up and do it. It's not the job of the federal government to spend taxpayer money on letting you sit around on your ass for 2 years being picky about what job you're willing to deign to take.

    Don't even get me started on unions. Again, it's not the job or business of the federal government to interfere in the business of private businesses. If an employer doesn't want unions, they don't have to have unions. But I doubt your little socialist mind can grasp the concept of people being free to do business with whom they want without your meddling.

    Ahh, minimum wage. Do you have any idea how much of a destructive influence on the economy and standard of living that monstrosity is? I doubt you do. Raising the minimum wage results in one thing, and only one thing: inflation. Minimum wage goes up, prices go up, and the purchasing power of all those people who just got a pay raise remains exactly the same. Only now, all of the people who formerly had been making more than minimum wage and who are still making the same per hour that they were before the minimum wage increase are having to pay the increased prices caused by the wage increase. So their purchasing power has become LESS than what it had been. The result is that no one's standard of living has improved, and a whole lot more people have had their standard of living reduced. This does not HELP people, it only puts MORE people into or closer to being in POVERTY. NO ONE who cares about the well being of people in this country votes for increasing minimum wage. Only politicians who care about buying poor people's votes increase the minimum wage....because they can count on idiots like you to not understand the actual economic effects of that increase, and only care about "ooohh, look, I have more money!"

    Medicare...ahh yes, that wonderful program which is the only reason why seniors can afford medical care. Another absolute load of bullsh*t. You want to know what Medicare and Medicaid have done, from someone who actually works in the industry? I'll tell you. Medicare pays less than half of medical expenses and forces providers to write off the rest (and Medicaid pays even less then Medicare). I can right now print and personally hold in my hand a bill for a surgery where the doctor actually had to pay to do surgery on someone, because the amount that Medicare paid was less than the costs the doctor had to pay in order to perform said surgery. Was the doctor allowed to bill the patient for the remainder? Nope...Medicare required that the whole amount be written off. When is the last time that you paid your boss to work for him? Yeah, that's what I thought. When health care providers are being forced to eat losses like that, they have to make up the difference somewhere or else go out of business. They make up those differences by increasing what they charge. And they can't just increase what they charge to Medicare patients only....nope, they have to increase their rates for EVERYONE. THAT is what has inflated the cost of health care in this country to the point where it's all but unaffordable. Maybe if we'd had more Ron Paul's in office when this crap was originally being voted on we wouldn't be stuck in the mess we are today.

    You very clearly have no idea what any of the things that Dr. Paul has voted no on actually mean. All you are capable of doing is seeing "Paul voted no on X....that means he doesn't want people to have X!" No, what that means is that he understands that it isn't the job of the federal government to provide you with X. If you want X, then YOU need to provide X for yourself. The government is not your godsdamned nanny...it is not there to take care of you. That's your job.
    (more)
  • luvguins Bob™ th... 2011/12/15 18:08:26
    luvguins
    +1
    Ron Paul is so far right off the cliff he would be truly a disaster for the country as president. As dangerous as the John Birchers are.
  • Bob™ th... Lady Yui 2011/12/13 21:52:17
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker
    SO HE IS NOT A REPUBLICAN...HE VOTED WITH THE GOP 77% OF THE TIME IN THE 111TH CONGRESS AND SO FAR HE HAS VOTED 73% OF THE TIME......I DOUBT THAT THERE IS EVEN ONE DEMOCRAT THAT HAS VOTED OVER 70% OF THE TIME WITH THE PARTY LINE...SEE UNFORTUNATELY, GETTING THE DEMS TO WORK AS ONE VOICE IS LIKE HERDING CATS BUT THE REPUBLICANS DO WALK IN GOOSESTEP TOGETHER LIKE GOOD LITTLE NAZI'S ACTUALLY THE RIGHT TERM WOULD BE NOTSEAS BECAUSE THEY ARE A VAST SEA OF RED GOING NO NO NO

    Ron Paul (R)

    House - Texas, District 14 - Up for re-election in 2012
    Voting history
    Votes with party
    73%

    of 915 votes
    111th Congress
    77%

    of 1654 votes
  • Lady Yui Bob™ th... 2011/12/14 20:55:22
    Lady Yui
    OH LOOK, I CAN TYPE IN CAPS, TOO!

    Moron.
  • Cat 1017 Lady Yui 2011/12/15 15:08:25
    Cat 1017
    +1
    If you feel that he is wrong, why not address his points about Ron Paul?..Don't name call unless you prove his is wrong....73% and 77% of votes along with a party, pretty much validates his poisition on Paul....
  • Bob™ th... Cat 1017 2011/12/15 17:38:47
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker
    I doubt you can find a democrat that votes the party line over 70% because they are like herding cats.
  • Cat 1017 Bob™ th... 2011/12/15 18:50:40
    Cat 1017
    +1
    I was thinking the same...democrats seldom vote at such a high rate along those lines.
  • Bob™ th... Cat 1017 2011/12/16 00:14:15
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker
    the gop walks in goose step like good little nazis toeing the party line.
  • Bob™ th... Lady Yui 2011/12/15 17:38:02
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker
    +1
    lol You don't have to end your posts by signing your nickname. But I will too. Why do cons when backed into a corner resort to finding something to change the subject and resort to childish insults.

    Bob.
  • aneed2know Lady Yui 2011/12/13 08:28:33
    aneed2know
    +2
    Is that your excuse for him, wow. If he had that much support then yeah i think he could get elected as independent, hell Sander does all the time.

    But again nothing more than a Ron Paul parrot, i would expect nothing less from ya.
  • Lady Yui aneed2know 2011/12/13 18:06:47
    Lady Yui
    Really? Sander gets elected for President all the time as an independent? What fantasy land do you live in?

    The reality is that there is no way this country is electing an independent to the office of President any time soon. The voting population is too entrenched in party politics to give an independent the time of day. I find it highly amusing that someone who is merely repeating the propaganda that the media and 2-party system has taught you all of your life to believe is calling someone else the parrot. But I guess I shouldn't blame you...it's what you've been trained to do.

    It's easy to spot an Odumbo supporter...just look for the people trying desperately to discredit and trash-talk Dr. Paul...because Dr. Paul is the only contender who is a threat.
  • Bob™ th... Lady Yui 2011/12/13 21:56:51
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker
    +2
    you know what he means, as a Senator, hell Paul lacks the integrity to run as a libertarian for congress.....I find it amusing that you think you have some candidate above the fray, who is beyond party, nope he is just beyond the pale of the GOP and on the far Right Fringe of it.

    THE REASON WE DEBUNK THE CRAP ABOUT PAUL IS BECAUSE HIS SUPPORTERS ARE CONSTANTLY CLAIMING SOME TYPE OF SUPERIORITY WHEN IN FACT THEY ARE NOT AND HE HAS ABOUT AS MUCH CHANCE OF WINNING THE PRESIDENCY AS RuPAUL

    RuPaul Revolution
  • aneed2know Bob™ th... 2011/12/14 06:20:35
    aneed2know
    +1
    Thank you, she knew exactly what i meant.
  • aneed2know Lady Yui 2011/12/14 06:20:19
    aneed2know
    +2
    First dont play dumb, but you are a Ron Paul person so you just may be in some other reality.

    If Paul had any integrity he would have stayed out of the republican party, but he did not. He ran once as Libertarian republican and lost, thats when he figured it out that the country was not in some La, La land and he retuened to the republican party.

    In truth he rails about career politicians, but every since he got out of the military except for ten years, he has been in office. And i suspect when he does not win this time around he will run again, or just sit back and collect that big fat retirement check all career politicians get.

    Thats you Ron Paul for ya.

    He does have at least two ideals that i support, legalize Pot and bring the Fed under conressional control, other than that the man is not in reality.
  • Lady Yui aneed2know 2011/12/14 21:17:47
    Lady Yui
    Retirement check? Oh, might you be referring to the retirement package which Dr. Paul has opted out of? Just like the congressional health care package he has opted out of? That's public record, btw.

    Tell me...if you want to make a difference in government, can you actually do that if you never get your foot in the door? He tried to run as what he was and discovered that the 2-party system has become so entrenched in the minds of idiots like you that people don't bother taking the time to actually educate themselves about what a candidate stands for....nope, they just click Republican or Democrat and go on about day. Name a single President in the past CENTURY who was not either a Republican or a Democrat. Just one. I'll give you a little hint...there's only ever been ONE Independent elected president, and his name was George Washington.

    This country is in La-La Land....La-La-LAZY Land. Unless you've got Republican or Democrat next to your name, you stand very little chance of getting into Congress (and ZERO chance of getting into the White House). If you want to make a difference, you have to get elected. Dr. Paul's voting record since getting elected has been consistent proof that he is a Libertarian Constitutionalist. He doesn't vote to expand the federal government, no matter how much the pundits and media have made that expansion sound like a good idea in the sheeple's minds.
  • Haightbear Lady Yui 2011/12/14 06:05:30
    Haightbear
    +2
    Third Parties run all the time....Anderson, Perot and Nader to name a few.
  • Lady Yui Haightbear 2011/12/14 21:18:57
    Lady Yui
    +1
    Name a single President since George Washington who was an Independent.
  • Haightbear Lady Yui 2011/12/15 08:05:11
    Haightbear
    +1
    Technically John Tyler...who ran on a Whig ticket as VP...and after Harrison died his party expelled him. He served the rest of his term as an independent.
  • morning... Bob™ th... 2011/12/13 16:16:24
    morning40oz~mad as hell
    +1
    I see you're still wearing your partisan blinders.
  • Bob™ th... morning... 2011/12/13 16:53:14
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker
    +3
    lol you are partisan but too embarrassed to admit you are a republican, I would be to if I had voted for Bush and how they destroyed this country.
  • morning... Bob™ th... 2011/12/14 00:04:01
    morning40oz~mad as hell
    I didn't vote for Bush. I've already covered that ground with you quite some time ago, Bob. I protested against Bush. BOTH parties have destroyed this country. To say otherwise is either intellectually ignorant or dishonest.
  • Bob™ th... morning... 2011/12/13 21:57:37
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker
    +2
    lol who has blinders on PAUL IS A REPUBLICAN

    ..HE VOTED WITH THE GOP 77% OF THE TIME IN THE 111TH CONGRESS AND SO FAR HE HAS VOTED 73% OF THE TIME......I DOUBT THAT THERE IS EVEN ONE DEMOCRAT THAT HAS VOTED OVER 70% OF THE TIME WITH THE PARTY LINE...SEE UNFORTUNATELY, GETTING THE DEMS TO WORK AS ONE VOICE IS LIKE HERDING CATS BUT THE REPUBLICANS DO WALK IN GOOSESTEP TOGETHER LIKE GOOD LITTLE NAZI'S ACTUALLY THE RIGHT TERM WOULD BE NOTSEAS BECAUSE THEY ARE A VAST SEA OF RED GOING NO NO NO

    Ron Paul (R)

    House - Texas, District 14 - Up for re-election in 2012
    Voting history
    Votes with party
    73%

    of 915 votes
    111th Congress
    77%

    of 1654 votes
  • morning... Bob™ th... 2011/12/14 00:05:18
    morning40oz~mad as hell
    +1
    Ron Paul is a Libertarian who wears an R behind his name. He wouldn't have to do that if the people of this country would take their heads out of their asses and realize both parties have destroyed us.
  • Bob™ th... morning... 2011/12/14 02:16:48
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker
    +2
    So why is he in the GOP debates? Why did he vote with them 75% of the time. Why does he take money from the RNC? The only person who has their head buried is you, he is supply side economics repackaged. no things were great under clinton.....Bush and the other supply siders took care of that.
  • morning... Bob™ th... 2011/12/14 02:39:21
    morning40oz~mad as hell
    +1
    You, obviously, know next to nothing about Ron Paul. His own party doesn't accept him, booted him out of the convention last election. Your percentage doesn't make for the whole picture which is countless legislation proposed by Republicans that he has voted against.

    Ron Paul and the traiterous GW have only one thing in common--that is they both wear an R behind their names. Other than that, the two aren't comparable at all.

    Speaking of GW, enjoying his third term?
  • Bob™ th... morning... 2011/12/14 09:36:12
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker
    +1
    LOL AND THEY SUPPORT THE SAME FAILED ECONOMIC POLICIES AND DEREGULATION THAT ENDS UP KILLING WORKERS AND DESTROYING THE ENVIRONMENT.....HE HAS VOTED THE PARTY LINE ALMOST 75% OF THE TIME. LOL OBAMA IS NO BUSH. HE SAVE THE CARE COMPANIES THE STOCK MARKET IS BACK UP TO 12,OOO WE HAVE HAD 20 MONTHS OF SUSTAINED GROWTH AND HE KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN WITHOUT TORTURE AND WITHOUT A WAR AND WITHOUT ONE AMERICAN DYING.....WE HAVE A HEALTHCARE BILL, WE ARE WORKING TO DECREASE THE DEBT, WE ARE ACTUALLY FIGHTING THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN AND ENDING THE ONE IN IRAQ, WE ARE RESPECTED IN THE WORLD AGAIN, WE HELP GET RID OF QUDAFFI WITH NO TROOPS ON THE GROUND.....WORKPLACE DEATHS AND INJURIES ARE ONCE AGAIN ON THE WAY DOWN........SO LIKE USUAL MORE BASELESS NONSENSE...ALTHOUGH I WISH THE PATRIOT ACT WERE ALLOWED TO COMPLETELY EXPIRE.
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