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Why can't conservatives back their opinions with facts?

Jimbo 2012/03/03 14:12:54
Because their opinions are lies.
I can, here's my rebuttal.
Another opinion.
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Truth does not matter to conservatives, putting out lies that prey on the prejudices of the GOP base for support works. Conservatives love Reagan, love trickle down, have attacked Dems as wrong on the economy. They have attacked the president as weak on terror, bad foreign policy, not supporting the troops. They have attacked him as a threat to religious institutions, taking away freedom. They have attacked him on stopping oil production. Their presidential candidates make absurd statements believed by so many.

Voodoo economics gave us the S&L; failure, the 90-91 recession, the great recession with a destroyed housing sector, banks needing TARP to survive, 750,000 jobs lost a month, Dow dropping to below 6000. Every Dem president since LBJ had better job creation than the GOP president that followed. Dem presidents had better GDP growth and better stock market performance than GOP presidents. Stimulus did work with a ten point change in GDP growth 4th qtr 08 vs 4th qtr 09, Dow doubling in 19 months to 12,000, 200,000 jobs a month created this year. The tax breaks for the top 2% were not reinvested here as 50,000 factories closed the past decade. Working class income has been stagnant as more wealth has shifted to the top for 3 decades. Before Reaganomics our country had both investor and workers move up in income in tandem creating a larger middle class and prosperity. Clinton took 5 million people out of poverty, Dubya put 2 million into poverty.

The president is not weak on terror being stronger than Dubya. A 30,000 man surge, 20 times the drone attacks, IDP help to Pakistan allowing them to clear the Swat Valley, were major changes. A Somalian pirate dead, Haqqanni dead, OBL dead, Al Awalaki dead, Gadhafi dead, Taliban/Al Qaeda leadership taken out is strength. No 911, London, Madrid is strength. Good foreign policy is a START treaty, 160 tons of food to N. Korea taking Younbon reactor offline, ending waterboarding, better trade agreement with Korea, China, elsewhere, saving Haiti when no one else could. Troops that strapped water barrels to humvees in Iraq now travel in MRAPs. Our armed forces are now equipped for battle per Secy Gates statement. Increased pay, no stop loss, increased care for returning heroes has all occurred on the CICs watch.

They have attack him as a threat to religious institutions when formerly having to pay for contraception in over 20 states, no longer have to with the federal waiver. If anyone has attacked religion it has been the GOP equating all Islam with the terrorists and not issuing 5 Mosque permits outside of NYC. When creationism is taught in TX, KS, public school science classrooms, the first amendment has been violated. Freedom taking is no collective bargaining (petitioning the govt), no free speech at Allen West town halls, life at conception ending birth control use, forced trans-vaginal ultrasounds with no permission nor medical reason.

They have attacked the president on oil production when a million acres in AK came under lease, production both on land and at sea has increased by half a trillion barrels from 2008. We import less than half our oil and have become a net fossil fuel exporter. There are also 3 million green energy jobs in the US moving us away from fossil fuel use. Yesterday's conservation speech by the president is a push for more.

The GOP clown car has candidates making absurd claims. Paul says he is for more freedom but that also includes allowing bias in public venues taking away freedom. Gingrich has whoppers one after the other, no urban work models, paid by Fannie/Freddie as a historian, multiple lies about the president. Santorum's gays destroy marriages, the military, the fabric of society, is like sex with animals is off the wall talk. He says he does not want to ban contraception but does with life at conception. He says people don't go into hospitals in the Netherlands for fear of euthanization. He says mainline Protestanism is not Christianity, sees no first amendment problem with Biblical law being US law. This is a candidate tied for frontrunner, a fruitcake. Romney thought the Start treaty made us less safe. Romney said Stimulus was a failure. Romney said GM bankruptcy would have made them viable when his own Bain capitol refused to invest in them. Romney said he would repair safety nets, not help the top when his tax plan ends the EIC, cut medicaid, WIC, SNAP shredding safety nets to give himself a better tax break.

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  • John Galt jr or Ron/jon 2012/03/13 04:45:23
    Another opinion.
    John Galt jr or Ron/jon
    +1
    they don't know the difference between facts and propaganda,
    so they read wikipedia
  • Informed Voter 2012/03/05 16:06:21 (edited)
    I can, here's my rebuttal.
    Informed Voter
    +1
    Hmmm.... LBJ? REALLY?

    What did LBJ say when he passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964? (Mainly with GOP votes?).

    “‘I’ll have them n**gers voting Democratic for two hundred years.’ – President Lyndon Baines Johnson, discussing the Civil Rights Act of 1964 with two governors”
    ref: Ronald Kessler, Inside the White House , (New York: Simon & Schuster Inc., 1996), 33.

    I suppose, with the help of a Liberal press corps, he was correct now wasn't he?

    “How many (Americans) know that only 64 percent of Democrats in Congress voted for the 1964 Civil Rights Act (153 for, 91 against in the House; and 46 for, 21 against in the Senate)? And 90 percent of Republicans (136 for, 35 against in the House; and 27 for, 6 against in the Senate) voted for the 1964 Act?”
    ref: Larry Elder, Stupid Black Men , (New York, NY: St. Martin’s Press, 2008), p. 59.

    Who was Hiram Revels?
    Who was Joseph H. Rainey?

    Revels (R-MS) was elected in 1870
    Rainey (R-SC) was elected in 1870

    http://baic.house.gov/member-...
    http://baic.house.gov/member-...

    Both were the first black Senator and Representative respectively that were elected to Congress... in 1870, along with others black represenatives... and ALL were Republican!

    WHO reversed all the civil rights legislation the GOP had put in place after the Civil War, in 1892?

    “In 1892, D...






    Hmmm.... LBJ? REALLY?

    What did LBJ say when he passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964? (Mainly with GOP votes?).

    “‘I’ll have them n**gers voting Democratic for two hundred years.’ – President Lyndon Baines Johnson, discussing the Civil Rights Act of 1964 with two governors”
    ref: Ronald Kessler, Inside the White House, (New York: Simon & Schuster Inc., 1996), 33.

    I suppose, with the help of a Liberal press corps, he was correct now wasn't he?

    “How many (Americans) know that only 64 percent of Democrats in Congress voted for the 1964 Civil Rights Act (153 for, 91 against in the House; and 46 for, 21 against in the Senate)? And 90 percent of Republicans (136 for, 35 against in the House; and 27 for, 6 against in the Senate) voted for the 1964 Act?”
    ref: Larry Elder, Stupid Black Men, (New York, NY: St. Martin’s Press, 2008), p. 59.

    Who was Hiram Revels?
    Who was Joseph H. Rainey?

    Revels (R-MS) was elected in 1870
    Rainey (R-SC) was elected in 1870

    http://baic.house.gov/member-...
    http://baic.house.gov/member-...

    Both were the first black Senator and Representative respectively that were elected to Congress... in 1870, along with others black represenatives... and ALL were Republican!

    WHO reversed all the civil rights legislation the GOP had put in place after the Civil War, in 1892?

    “In 1892, Democrats gained control of the House, the Senate, and the White House, and repealed all the Republican-passed civil rights laws. That enabled the Southern Democrats to pass the Jim Crow laws, poll taxes, literacy tests, and so on in their individual states.” (Ibid, p. 58-9)

    WHO was the first black Democrat and WHEN was he elected to office?

    Arthur Wergs Mitchell (D-Chicago, ILL)
    ref: http://baic.house.gov/member-...

    If the truth doesn't bother you then it certainly doesn't bother me... make sure you tell ALL of it, not just what makes your so-called party look good!
    (more)
  • A Pigeon. 2012/03/05 03:48:09
    Another opinion.
    A Pigeon.
    They don't *Have* any solid facts to back up their pitiful claims.
  • Ken 2012/03/05 03:26:55
    I can, here's my rebuttal.
    Ken
    +2
    Don't you have this backwards, sounds like you are talking about liberals and Democrats.
  • Spizzzo BN-0 2012/03/04 15:27:03
    Because their opinions are lies.
    Spizzzo BN-0
    +2
    It's deeper than that, though. Most Conservatives, I think, truly believe reality is a matter of consensus opinion. That is, they do not believe in objective reality. They think that if they lie loud enough and convincingly enough, actual reality will match their fantasies and not genuine reality.

    So, these people are genuinely delusional and are to be pitied, IMHO.
  • XENON23 Spizzzo... 2012/03/04 15:47:19
    XENON23
    Liberals do the same thing. Both side do it. I do not belong to a party but was once a Democrat. I am Friends with Ex-Speaker of the House Jim Wright and he has much to say about how both party act these day vs. in his day.

    You can generalize all you want but it does not make it true. What we need is to stop being so decided or the USA will end up in the trash heap of past Republics.

    By the way...good for you on reporting to the SS. Not sure what it was but it sounded worth reporting. We have nuts on all side who should be checked out when they make dangerous comments.

    Have a nice day

    Xenon23
  • Spizzzo... XENON23 2012/03/04 16:37:39
    Spizzzo BN-0
    +1
    Thanks for proving my point.

    One of the favorite lies Conservatives like to make is claiming that Liberals are just as crazy as they are. Somehow, this is supposed to show they are sane. What Conservatives can't do is point to objective evidence of equivalent craziness by Liberals. Heck, they don't even try to point to it. If they could find any, the correct attitude towards such a Liberal would be, "Hey, you are crazy and a bad Liberal!" When a Conservative does it, they are told, "Hey, you are ONE GREAT Conservative!" and get a show on Fox News.

    Thanks for your support on SS.
  • XENON23 Spizzzo... 2012/03/05 01:40:36
    XENON23
    I don't think I proved your point. I am not on of the Conservatives you speak of. I am more the man standing by and watching both sides play silly one-upmanship games with each other.

    It is no lie that both Liberals and Conservatives on SodaHead act crazy on these polls. I SEE IT ALL THE TIME! I also see people on both side that make good points. I am not a slave to one side or the other. It is better to be open and take each topic one at a time.

    What I am really not sure of is why you seem to be so bent out of shape over what people say about your liberal views. you should be proud and not let petty small minded Conservatives bother you any more than Conservatives who find themselves in the same spot.
  • Spizzzo... XENON23 2012/03/05 12:02:48
    Spizzzo BN-0
    I would like to think we live in a world of people who balance in all attitudes equally along the Liberal-to-Conservative spectrum. Really I would. I tried really hard to be a genuinely independent Independent (especially as an analytical Psychologist by training), but the blatant insanity of Conservatives beat me down. You claim to have found true balance in the insanity, so prove it with references here. Please. I've asked, BEGGED, for Right-wingers to give even a SINGLE reference to Left-wingers being crazy in the way Right-wingers are; and they've never been able to do it. Enlighten me.
  • XENON23 Spizzzo... 2012/03/05 12:06:11
    XENON23
    Try talking to people off SH. I do not think you will find much fair from any side at this time on SH. I try very hard to but I am not happy with people on SH at this point in time on this topic. But when I have time I will look.
  • Spizzzo... XENON23 2012/03/05 12:25:44
    Spizzzo BN-0
    OK, looking forward to it. But for now, fail; frankly.

    This extends not just to SH Right-wingers, but to all Republicans (Right-wingers all), ESPECIALLY all elected Republicans.

    Now that I've looked at your profile and some sample answers of yours, I must say I'm dubious.

    Here's the deal: Virtually all Liberals, and all prominent Liberals strive to make cogent arguments supported by facts using facts from respected sources; while virtually all Conservatives (meaning all Republicans, remember) strive to spout unsupported opinion and avoid ANY reference to facts at all! If they bother to try to 'support' their 'arguments', it's merely by saying stuff like, "it's obvious!" That's bogus.

    Besides, IF there were Liberals as mindless as Conservatives are, they'd be called bad Liberals; while Conservatives being mindless gets them accolades as, "Great and True Conservative!"

    Prove me wrong.
  • XENON23 Spizzzo... 2012/03/05 15:05:51
    XENON23
    "OK, looking forward to it. But for now, fail; frankly.

    This extends not just to SH Right-wingers, but to all Republicans (Right-wingers all), ESPECIALLY all elected Republicans.

    Now that I've looked at your profile and some sample answers of yours, I must say I'm dubious.

    Here's the deal: Virtually all Liberals, and all prominent Liberals strive to make cogent arguments supported by facts using facts from respected sources; while virtually all Conservatives (meaning all Republicans, remember) strive to spout unsupported opinion and avoid ANY reference to facts at all! If they bother to try to 'support' their 'arguments', it's merely by saying stuff like, "it's obvious!" That's bogus.

    Besides, IF there were Liberals as mindless as Conservatives are, they'd be called bad Liberals; while Conservatives being mindless gets them accolades as, "Great and True Conservative!"

    Prove me wrong."





    I am now sure that no matter what I say you will find someway to say I am wrong. You are being rude while I have been nice.

    Do you think all or say 90% of liberals here are kind and filled only with facts and only conservatives lie and are with out facts? Is that what you believe?

    Your first line claimed I had failed before you even gave me time to get back to you. I do have more to do than just sit he...




    "OK, looking forward to it. But for now, fail; frankly.

    This extends not just to SH Right-wingers, but to all Republicans (Right-wingers all), ESPECIALLY all elected Republicans.

    Now that I've looked at your profile and some sample answers of yours, I must say I'm dubious.

    Here's the deal: Virtually all Liberals, and all prominent Liberals strive to make cogent arguments supported by facts using facts from respected sources; while virtually all Conservatives (meaning all Republicans, remember) strive to spout unsupported opinion and avoid ANY reference to facts at all! If they bother to try to 'support' their 'arguments', it's merely by saying stuff like, "it's obvious!" That's bogus.

    Besides, IF there were Liberals as mindless as Conservatives are, they'd be called bad Liberals; while Conservatives being mindless gets them accolades as, "Great and True Conservative!"

    Prove me wrong."





    I am now sure that no matter what I say you will find someway to say I am wrong. You are being rude while I have been nice.

    Do you think all or say 90% of liberals here are kind and filled only with facts and only conservatives lie and are with out facts? Is that what you believe?

    Your first line claimed I had failed before you even gave me time to get back to you. I do have more to do than just sit here and look up stuff. I really don't have anything to prove.

    My only point that I wanted to address is the generalization of the head line of this poll.

    "Why can't conservatives back their opinions with facts?"
    This is a generalization and you know that it is.
    (more)
  • Spizzzo... XENON23 2012/03/05 15:09:26
    Spizzzo BN-0
    OK, all I said was, "prove it". So prove it, if you can. So far, it looks like you can't.

    I hope you don't REALLY think you are unbiased!
  • XENON23 Spizzzo... 2012/03/05 15:30:32
    XENON23
    I never said that I do not have my own opinions just as you do.

    Why don't you give me a few topics that you think Conservatives can't and never prove with facts. That will give us a better starting point.

    You can skip gay points as I am gay and I do not agree with the typical Conservatives thought on gay issues.

    I also do not like Rush, Hannity and I do not agree with Bill O on drug issues...Mostly how he feels about Pot. I also do not take the Bible as word for word fact. I was not and am not for the war Bush started in Iraq and I think we should pull out of Afganistan and many other hot spots. I hope that gives you a start on some issues you may think I am Conservatives minded on.
  • Spizzzo... XENON23 2012/03/05 16:57:46
    Spizzzo BN-0
    OK, you now claim to have a lot of atypical views for a Conservative. Why is it we are only now learning of this about you? Like it or not, if you choose to be a Conservative, you will have to have an answer for Conservative and Repuboican views. Like how they hate Gays. You may not like all Conservative views. OK, then point me to where I can see what you do support.

    After all, though I'm not a Democrat, I have no problem, as a Liberal, answering for Democratic views. After all, Liberals and Democrats merely base their views on facts; not the fantasies Conservatives use--so it's easy to point to facts. There is no need for us to make stuff up like Conservatives do.
  • scum1 Spizzzo... 2012/03/05 15:36:24
    scum1
    +1
    You are behaving just like them. I mean come on "Good Liberals ALWAYS tie what they say to evidence and facts" Can you prove that? Well not all liberals are good liberals then. I mean a middle of the road independent speaks here and you attack them. It is just like when I answer something in a Conservative post and they attack me and call me a Liberal. Not everyone fits into neat categories. I think one reason you don't see many coherent post from conservatives is that they have been hijacked by the far far right and Fox. I think a lot of middle and left leaning conservatives have been pushed out and now consider themselves independent.
  • XENON23 scum1 2012/03/05 16:34:38
    XENON23
    Thanks...
  • Spizzzo... scum1 2012/03/05 17:13:20
    Spizzzo BN-0
    YES, I can prove it! *I* am a Good Liberal, and *I* can always prove my case with actual evidence--and any Liberal unable to do so is worthy of disgust. I'd hoped that similar Conservatives existed here on SH 3 years ago when I joined; but they don't. No Conservative (here, or as an elected Republicans, or on Fox News, for that matter) has even TRIED to prove a point. ALL of them say hateful lies and assume all of their listeners will believe them. Frankly,it's disgusting.
  • scum1 Spizzzo... 2012/03/05 17:24:15
    scum1
    +1
    Ok so you are a good liberal. Fine. But there are many that are not. There are many that just follow MSNBC like the right follows Fox. Really you can say you always prove your point with facts but you can't say all do. I would say more liberals than conservatives seem to show a rational side though. I do find that the majority of conservatives here really don't want to be bothered with facts.
  • Spizzzo... scum1 2012/03/05 17:35:14
    Spizzzo BN-0
    And you continue to behave just like Conservatives (by asserting things without proof) while claiming to not be Conservative. That's suspicious. YES, if a Liberal spouts unsupported opinion, they're a BAD LIBERAL! Of course! Why would you think otherwise? Do you fantasize that rational people support other people just because of their political stances, regardless of the quality of those stances? Are you THAT silly?

    All you have to do to support your ideas is offer some support. I guarantee you that any Bad Liberals you point me to will be "verbally attacked" by me to point out to them how they are being a Bad Liberal.

    You are acting as if truth depends on political philosophy.
  • XENON23 Spizzzo... 2012/03/05 16:35:51
    XENON23
    I take it you are off line...I will be off line and back later...got some Capitalistic stuff to go do.
  • Spizzzo... XENON23 2012/03/05 17:15:15
    Spizzzo BN-0
    Back. My chips and salsa were calling me (this is 'late' for me, not 'early'; so I may well conk out if i get sleepy).
  • Cognito22 Spizzzo... 2012/03/04 17:32:49
    Cognito22
    +3
    Actually, you managed to get it quite backwards.

    Reality is not opinion based, as most liberals would like to believe.
    It's the Left that makes its appeal for the Collective . . . for consensus of opinion.

    Reality is harsh. Something liberals avoid in so many ways.
    The world of liberals is a fantasy utopia for that reason.
    Reality is acknowledging and using truth in the mind of a conservative and not having to spin an argument to suit a predetermined agenda.
  • Spizzzo... Cognito22 2012/03/04 18:38:13
    Spizzzo BN-0
    Nope. Not at all. Good Liberals ALWAYS tie what they say to evidence and facts. Conservatives don't even bother and just make stuff up and pretend it proves their case. It's pathetic.
  • Cognito22 Spizzzo... 2012/03/04 20:20:15 (edited)
    Cognito22
    +1
    Using a false generalization to prove your argument doesn't even approach logic.
    What's interesting is, by doing so, you demonstrate that which you accuse others of.
    "Just make up stuff and pretend it proves their point".
    It's not necessary for me to insult you with my evaluation of your comment.
    You did already.
  • kaZappoo 2012/03/04 05:29:11
    Another opinion.
    kaZappoo
    +3
    can liberals /progressives ,,,make intelegent posts ,,,and have facts to back their cooked numbers ?
    and simply post a reasonable poll instead of accusing conservatives of the stuff ?

    these numbers are the ones released by whom ?

    the same folks that created the crash in 07 ?

    created the same numbers used by dept of labor & statics for unemployment & jobs nunbers ?

    and the truth doesnt seem to matter to some here either as long as confusion can be aquired .
  • Alvin 2012/03/04 02:27:19
    Because their opinions are lies.
    Alvin
    Because they are the masters of the sound bite. They get the gullible to accept the sound bite as truth then go around and repeating it.
  • JoeBlo 2012/03/04 02:26:12
    Another opinion.
    JoeBlo
    +3
    Damn.... it's going to be a long Summer with the copy-paste Media Matters and 'Truth Team' E-mails. Icing sprinkles on the turds this administration has left in our WH.

    Thank GOD that place is scheduled for fumigation & renovations in January.
  • relic 2012/03/03 22:03:41
    Another opinion.
    relic
    +3
    If I give you a reasoned answer, you'll just call me vile names. I know about your type.
  • Jimbo relic 2012/03/03 23:39:33
    Jimbo
    +3
    You get what you give. This was a respectful post getting back the same. Would like to hear your opinion.
  • GOP Poison 2012/03/03 21:46:49
    Because their opinions are lies.
    GOP Poison
    +2
    Why would anyone listen to a radio talk show host that is AGAINST the fairness doctrine.That is where if a political opinion is given the opposing side has the opportunity ON THAT STATION to offer opposing facts.That is the way it was years ago and when people listened to Cronkite they knew they were getting facts or else the TV station would have to allow opposing views to be aired. Why would anyone watch a TV news outlet where that outlet went to court to get the right to lie to their audience and call it "free speech".?
  • Sinpac GOP Poison 2012/03/03 21:52:46
  • GOP Poison Sinpac 2012/03/03 21:56:06
    GOP Poison
    LOL
  • Sinpac GOP Poison 2012/03/03 21:56:51
    Sinpac
    I thought you would like this! LOL
  • Sinpac Sinpac 2012/03/03 21:57:22
    Sinpac
    One more time For the folks on the right!
  • Roger47 2012/03/03 19:42:53
    Because their opinions are lies.
    Roger47
    +4
    Their opinions are most often based on propaganda that is being sold to them as news and valid information. I suspect most of them have an awareness that their beliefs are inconsistent with the real world, but the real world is a messed up place. The liars out there give them someone to blame and tell them that nothing is their fault, so "believing" it allows them to sit back, complain, and feel comfortable.
  • uncle r... Roger47 2012/03/04 16:45:53
    uncle remus
    +1
    Conservatism Thrives on Low Intelligence and Poor Information http://www.alternet.org/story...
  • Rodney 2012/03/03 19:21:49
    Another opinion.
    Rodney
    +1
    Most of us do, it just that small under-educated or fully propagandized brains refuse to accept the facts.
  • Jimbo Rodney 2012/03/03 19:51:12 (edited)
    Jimbo
    +2
    Fact is you post anti union posts that show unions that overreach are punished and nurses have the right to resign, not face discipline unrestricted with support from that awful government entity that protects workers that conservatives want abolished.

    "Nurse: "I wanted to protect my patients"

    With free legal assistance from the National Right to Work Foundation, three Minneapolis nurses have filed federal unfair labor practice charges against nurse union officials for illegally threatening them with disciplinary action for refusing to participate in a recent strike.

    Recently, a local TV news crew interviewed two of the nurses about the atmosphere of hostility and distrust created at the children's hospital as a result of the union boss-ordered strike.

    One nurse tells KARE-11 that she exercised her right to resign from the union and go back to work because "I wanted to protect my patients."

    Union officials claim some nurses received the threatening letters due to a "clerical error" but refused to be interviewed on camera.

    Over the years, Foundation attorneys have won settlements for workers illegally threatened by union bosses with fines up to $40,000 simply for returning to work to provide for their families. "

    Looks like that awful Federal Unfair Labor practice entity (NLRB) protects both unionized workers and anti-union workers. Fines in the millions have gone against employers.
  • Rodney Jimbo 2012/03/03 21:23:33
    Rodney
    +1


    Can't refute what I said, so you have to wander off on some unrelated tirade?

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