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Why are parts of Leviticus used, but other parts ignored?

Bico December 13, 2008 18:16:54
I believe only the abomination mentioned in Lev 18:22 and 20:13 is a sin and not those in other verses because...
I believe all of Leviticus' abominations are sins because...
I don't believe any of Leviticus' abominations are sins because...
Undecided
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I recently watched a program in which the point was brought up that the same part of the Bible that most people cite in condemning the homosexual act also condemns shaving your temples, eating shellfish, and wearing clothes of mixed fiber. However, neither the pundit nor the guests ever actually discuss this matter, instead focusing on some other arbitrary issue, ignoring this fact.

I, however, find this argument interesting. In Leviticus it states that if a man lies with a man as one does with a woman, it is unclean (or an abomination, depending on your translation). This is usually interpreted as being a sin. The same terminology is used, however, when describing eating things like pork, hare, shellfish, any creatures that live in water but don't have scales, and birds of prey, among other things. Women are also said to be an abomination 33 days after giving birth to a boy and 66 days after giving birth to a girl and animals must be given up as sacrifice to cleanse her of her sins (of giving birth, I guess), and having sex with a woman during her period is an abomination. A man cutting his beard is an abomination. Tattoos are an abomination. Also, in this book, cursing one's parents results in the death penalty.

Okay, so basically by saying homosexuality is a sin because it is called an abomination by Leviticus, one also must concede that all these prior things are also sins, correct? However, most people who use Leviticus to say that homosexuality is a sin conveniently ignore these things, and most likely indulge in sins such as shaving or eating pork chops. I, personally, from my reading of this book, believe that these taboos are more for ritual effect than anything, if not to be altogether ignored by Jesus' own statement that old Jewish laws were defunct, but I am very curious to know how people who believe homosexuality is a sin due to this part of the Bible can ignore the other abominations there in which they, themselves indulge; yet, do not pursue legislation to ban these unclean acts. Or are there those who support and practice the interpretations espoused, in which all these things are sins and should be outlawed?
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  • KSJR362 -- Don't Own a Gun,... January 24, 2009 15:44:00
    I don't believe any of Leviticus' abominations are sins because...
    KSJR362 -- Don't Own a Gun, But Glad to Know I Can
    +9
    Leviticus was a Hebrew philosopher. He wrote all this around the time when the Hebrews were trying to free themselves from slavery and establish themselves.

    Leviticus was a very smart man. If you read through the so-called laws, they all have one common denominator -- survival and growth of the group.

    Even disallowing the cutting of hair makes sense in that it allowed one follower to recognize the other.

    Think about it. The laws protect from potential food poisoning, inbreeding, racial impurities, and so on. The most apparent "laws" surround procreation. Homosexuality in men does not produce babies.

    It is important to note the laws don't disallow homosexuality in women. That would be because women were property and a husband had every right to rape his wife.

    Another prime example is it is a sin to screw your wife when she's having her period. Why? No babies.

    These archaic and outdated laws do have a scientific foundation, but are simply not applicable to today.

    The homophobes hold on to that one statement because, in all truth, it's all they got.

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  • Derek May 05, 2010 02:11:11
    I don't believe any of Leviticus' abominations are sins because...
    Derek
    To me, anyone who is against gays based on this must not cut their hair, wear cotton/polyester blend, have a flower next to a different flower in their garden nor eat pork (and shellfish). Otherwise they're huge hypocrites.

    If they demand everyone follows ONE petty rule that's from a time when people thought the wind were Satan's farts, then they must follow ALL the petty rules the same passage dictates.
  • F*ckYou February 26, 2010 10:27:11
  • chosenone July 30, 2009 17:50:23
    Undecided
    chosenone
    you got them to read the book of Leviticus? Read chapter 11. Clean and unclean foods. This is still Law. Most of the sickness now comes from unclean foods. You must clean it good,wash your hands before you eat,and pray over your food.For a Blessing from God. So Nothing Unholy goes into your body.
  • <--That guy April 09, 2009 06:45:42
    None of the above
    <--That guy
    People like to quote certain aspects of the Bible which suit their agenda. They don't really have a good reason from the real world why being a homosexual is a bad thing, so they have to resort to the only source that supports that notion, irrational as it may be.

    However, they turn a blind eye to everything else in the Bible that doesn't jive with their ideology because they know that if they support this verse yet dismiss the one that immediately follows it, they'll be called hypocrites--and rightfully so.

    Anyone who's ever been to court has probably heard the judge explain that ignorance of the law is no excuse. If you're going to use the Bible as the handbook for determining morality and dictating behavior, you don't get to pick and choose which laws you want to abide by and which ones you don't.
  • Tu Madre February 21, 2009 07:41:38 (edited)
    None of the above
    Tu Madre
    In the New Testament Jesus made call meats clean and all those dietary and specific laws about worshiping in the temple were meant for the Jewish religion to show their covenant with God and to set the Jewish people apart from the others as God's chosen people. We no longer worship in temples and the Gentiles are not required to follow the Jewish customs because they are not Jews. Have any of you guys read the Bible start to finish? You need to write it all to understand it all as a whole and you can not just pick out small parts because they don't make sense if you haven't read all of it.
  • Brick t... Tu Madre August 15, 2009 01:25:53
    Brick that were shat.
    What verse did he do that in?
  • Mollybdamned American Atheist February 06, 2009 17:07:42
    I don't believe any of Leviticus' abominations are sins because...
    Mollybdamned American Atheist
    It's all mythology anyway so it doesn't matter to me what it says. However, I do see the nosey's and the people that don't have enough to do in thier own lives trying to regulate other peoples lives by cherry picking certain verses and loudly proclaiming all must follow ancient Jewish Law. There is no distinction in Sin in the bible. No ONE sin is greater than or less than another Sin. The book clearly states the 'wages of sin is death' ALL SIN. If you want to believe that stuff. So, to pick just one is nothing more than a control trip by a bunch of brainless, superstitious control freaks.
  • wolfshadow January 27, 2009 09:57:43
    Undecided
    wolfshadow
    I think they were about the times. Also we have to remember that the 'Bible' was written by man, many times over. Furthermore, isn't Leviticus a code for priests?

    Anywho, the people that ignore all those but thump on homosexuality better get a grip. I for one believe I am just the way God made me, I have no choice over my sexuality, but these people that thumpa thumpa on this every Sunday then dine at Red Lobster (Very much a choice) better watch out.
  • De'~ January 26, 2009 10:01:39
    None of the above
    De'~
    Why are some parts used and other parts ignored?
    Because both humans and religions are selective. And one must consider the times that these were written and the purpose that it was written under.
  • crsone January 26, 2009 03:56:01
    I don't believe any of Leviticus' abominations are sins because...
    crsone
    they were the ethics of a Bronze Age people -- we live in entirely different times. Furthermore, the author(s) of this text were trying to bind a people together -- many, of not most, of the laws are just that -- things to make them stand out from everyone else so that they wouldhave to stick together. Some of them were actually pretty smart for a time when trichinosis was a serious problem.
  • A January 25, 2009 13:47:16
    I don't believe any of Leviticus' abominations are sins because...
    A
    I don't believe the bible is anything more than myths, fairy tales and fables, so it's moot to me anyway, but as you pointed out, Jesus said the old Jewish laws were defunct. Sadly, homosexuality is addressed in the new testament, by the world's most famous emotion eunuch/misogynist Paul, this time including female homosexuality.

    This is but one of many contradictions in the bible.
  • lslsttn January 25, 2009 09:30:50
    None of the above
    lslsttn
    If I remember correctly, Leviticus is the one with all the health codes. So, you tell me, why would pious people ignore their own laws? Would it be that their piety and their laws, having been fulfilled by their own GOD, are no longer important?
  • cronewinter January 25, 2009 06:48:32
    I don't believe any of Leviticus' abominations are sins because...
    cronewinter
    None of them are "sins" because not every thing that is printed is true? Not just one god gets to make the rules for every one? I do think that the dietary laws resulted from smart observation of what did and didn't make people sick..refrigeration and cooking temps weren't well understood or available. The laws on mold and mildew also probably the result of seeing that people got sick in moldy places. Most of the rules seem to be all about controlling the masses and were suitable for warlike, nomadic tribes but some have some pretty solid reasoning behind them.
  • StringT... cronewi... January 25, 2009 08:12:47 (edited)
  • Bico StringT... January 26, 2009 05:58:03
    Bico
    So you would assert that certain things from the Bible are untrue and not the inerrant Word of God. This would mean that the credibility of the other passages could be called into question, especially given that the oldest transcripts we have for the New Testament books alone are from hundreds of years after the originals, and they vary widely amongst each other.

    Because of this, one could argue that the parts of the Bible that condone slavery, the rape of children (as long as it's male on female), and even the parts that may be interpreted as being anti-homosexual, could also be, as you said, "that man has added this betrayal to the word of God."

    It's troublesome, because as many of these things are widely accepted in the Bible--and compounded by corruption as it was copied over the millenia, as well as what is lost in translation (or mistranslation)--it would be near impossible for even devout Christians to confirm what might be true. Every single person would basically have to learn Greek and Hebrew for themselves and personally compare the old transcripts to figure out what's what. Otherwise, you could just trust the experts to figure it out and read their own translation of their interpretation of what the original might have been.

    One way or the other, this viewpoint would tend ...
    So you would assert that certain things from the Bible are untrue and not the inerrant Word of God. This would mean that the credibility of the other passages could be called into question, especially given that the oldest transcripts we have for the New Testament books alone are from hundreds of years after the originals, and they vary widely amongst each other.

    Because of this, one could argue that the parts of the Bible that condone slavery, the rape of children (as long as it's male on female), and even the parts that may be interpreted as being anti-homosexual, could also be, as you said, "that man has added this betrayal to the word of God."

    It's troublesome, because as many of these things are widely accepted in the Bible--and compounded by corruption as it was copied over the millenia, as well as what is lost in translation (or mistranslation)--it would be near impossible for even devout Christians to confirm what might be true. Every single person would basically have to learn Greek and Hebrew for themselves and personally compare the old transcripts to figure out what's what. Otherwise, you could just trust the experts to figure it out and read their own translation of their interpretation of what the original might have been.

    One way or the other, this viewpoint would tend to undermine the fundamentalist belief that everything in the Bible must be taken as the literal and inerrant Word of God, which means that we should be able to interpret it as we will, throwing out the parts that seem to us not to fit with the message and keeping those parts that do.
    (more)
  • StringT... Bico January 26, 2009 06:12:22
  • Bico StringT... January 26, 2009 19:10:32
    Bico
    So you say that because homosexual relationships would not naturally produce offspring, this is proof that it is wrong. The premise that doing things that would not, if universally practiced, result in the continuation of the human species can be considered wrong and sinful unfortunately leads to other problems.

    What would you say about those who choose to be chaste for the rest of their lives, such as Catholic priests or monks or nuns? Would they be considered sinning because if everyone was chaste the population would not be sustainable? I recall that there is a passage in the Bible which discusses marriage and, in a roundabout fashion, procreation. Jesus says that it is good to marry, but it would be better to be like Jesus (which is interpreted as not marrying or having children). Jesus, himself, is believed to have remained chaste. If everyone were to act like Jesus, the population would also be unable to sustain its numbers.

    Would you also say that any use of contraceptives would be sinful? I know there are some sects of Christianity that would say it is, but it seems strange that it would be so, even in the context of marriage. Some people make the mistake that any time you're having sex all it is is carnal lust. To those in loving relationships, you know this not to be tr...'''
    So you say that because homosexual relationships would not naturally produce offspring, this is proof that it is wrong. The premise that doing things that would not, if universally practiced, result in the continuation of the human species can be considered wrong and sinful unfortunately leads to other problems.

    What would you say about those who choose to be chaste for the rest of their lives, such as Catholic priests or monks or nuns? Would they be considered sinning because if everyone was chaste the population would not be sustainable? I recall that there is a passage in the Bible which discusses marriage and, in a roundabout fashion, procreation. Jesus says that it is good to marry, but it would be better to be like Jesus (which is interpreted as not marrying or having children). Jesus, himself, is believed to have remained chaste. If everyone were to act like Jesus, the population would also be unable to sustain its numbers.

    Would you also say that any use of contraceptives would be sinful? I know there are some sects of Christianity that would say it is, but it seems strange that it would be so, even in the context of marriage. Some people make the mistake that any time you're having sex all it is is carnal lust. To those in loving relationships, you know this not to be true. Sexual intercourse is one of those things that helps to affirm the emotional and spiritual connection between you and your spouse. Why should one necessarily have to be trying for children every time one desires closeness with one's spouse?

    It also may bring into question those with certain diseases, genetic or otherwise, that might prevent them from having children. Are these people who simply choose not to have children sinful for not doing so, even when they may be unable to physically or because they might put their potential children at risk by having them?

    So, you see, these issues alone hopefully elucidate the reason creating a universal out of an incidental is a poor way to prove it wrong. The fact is that in any given population at any given time, about 10% of it will be homosexual. The other 90% have no problem continuing the human species, and it would be vastly unlikely that we would ever have a situation which would leave us with only homosexuals to repopulate the planet. If that was the case, I'm sure that if it was the human race at stake, they might be willing to consider heterosexual intercourse, even though they wouldn't like it. Anyway, the fact that homosexuality is also been present in most animal species seems to confirm that this is indeed normal behavior and apparently not harmful to the species.
    (more)
  • wolfshadow StringT... January 27, 2009 10:02:07
    wolfshadow
    Were very talented...

    We can learn a skill.
  • wolfshadow StringT... January 27, 2009 10:01:09
    wolfshadow
    So if all creatures were put here for human consumption then I guess it's okay to eat each other. Guess it's good that I just stick to 'eating' one part...
  • StringT... wolfshadow January 29, 2009 18:06:45
  • wolfshadow StringT... January 30, 2009 05:03:26
  • Bico wolfshadow February 01, 2009 08:56:45
    Bico
    +1
    I love sock puppets, though would have appreciated an on topic reply more. Perhaps mentioning the poison dart frog or some such beast that would actually be incredibly stupid to eat.

    I'd also like to laugh that your String Theory friend didn't seem to catch the sexual innuendo, but to be honest it went over my head the first time I read it, too...
  • Axl Snaks January 25, 2009 04:41:39
    I don't believe any of Leviticus' abominations are sins because...
    Axl Snaks
    +2
    People take what they want from the Bible and use it for their gain: whether good or bad.

    The morality of the Bible is not followed, but INTERPRETED!
  • Howard Beale II January 25, 2009 03:33:06
    None of the above
    Howard Beale II
    Frankly, I haven't the slightest idea who this Leviticus dude is, but apparently he is a liar and a hypocrite. And if the bible thumping crowd go around selectively quoting a liar and hypocrite, then it could only be that they are either lying hypocrites themselves, or hopelessly brainwashed.
  • StringT... Howard ... January 26, 2009 06:29:04
  • Howard ... StringT... January 26, 2009 06:44:26
    Howard Beale II
    +1
    Perhaps you misunderstood me. I defintely did say that I have not the slightest idea who the Leviticus dude is. And I thought I made it clear (but apparently not) that I do not really give a fuck who he is. All I know is that he seems to be a lying hypocrite.

    And these Roman dudes you speak of, are you including the likes of the Caesar clan? Cuz I don't think they saw any problem about it.
  • StringT... Howard ... January 26, 2009 07:11:16
  • Bico StringT... January 26, 2009 19:26:08
    Bico
    Wow. You really didn't do a good job of hiding your unabashed hate and bigotry in that last paragraph. I have to say I'm highly disappointed to hear anyone speak in such a way toward anyone. It was certainly inappropriate to use the "f" word, but that is most certainly not a trait "encoded within [homosexuals'] DNA." First off, you don't even know if this person is a homosexual or not. Most heterosexuals I know are pretty casual about the F-bomb, even those who are extremely homophobic like you. Your theory that gay people have some kind of inherent immorality and rage is just... plain ignorance, I'm sorry to say.

    Also, to say that the "entire Book of the Holy Bible seems to point to [homosexuality being a sin]" is a vast hyperbole. There's barely a handful of passages that even mention anything like homosexual behavior. Not only that, in the more original manuscripts, these passages often tend to be more vague, and there is evidence that the text was changed by some later scribes to more explicitly condemn homosexual behavior. Because of this, the very interpretation that these passages are even referring to normal homosexual relationships is called into question. Even in the corrupted text it seems more likely that it condemns mindless lust, which is no more prevalent in homosexual relationships than in heterosexual relationships.
  • Howard ... StringT... January 27, 2009 00:14:18
    Howard Beale II
    So you are talking about some bible characters, then. No wonder it all sounds like a pile of crap, because that's what it is. The bible is nothing by a collection of mythology accumulated over the millenniums, edited and re-edited to serve its purpose of controlling people's minds. And I must admit it does a pretty good job of what it is intended for.

    I suppose you believe homosexuality and all other things you don't like are all the result of some naked woman being conned by a talking snake some 6000 years ago? Well if you believe that, let me introduce you to my investment plan. You see, I have some prime ocean-front property in the heart of Arizona...
  • wolfshadow StringT... January 27, 2009 10:05:45
    wolfshadow
    I'm gladyou brought up the ten commandments...

    If God was so adament about it, don't you think he would have made it one of the top ten?

    The problem with Homosexuality is people like you. Not the homosexuals. God isn't going to damn me or send me to hell. I am JUST the way HE made me.

    My place in the Kingdom of God is assured. For let he who is without sin cast the first stone... I don't throw rocks and judge others. Are you sure a seats waiting for you?
  • StringT... wolfshadow January 29, 2009 18:08:43 (edited)
  • wolfshadow StringT... January 30, 2009 05:02:04
    wolfshadow
    OMG... where you born this fu**ing dumb or did you have to work at it?

    People like you are soon to wish you kept your mouths shut. The call will soon go out and my people will rise up and vengance shall be ours.

    Until that happens... I can tell you to shut your dumb hole, but I;m sure it wouldn't do any good...stupidity like that I am sure someone told you that already.

    SO I will block your punk, dumb a$$ so I don't have to hear you babble further.

    Be thankful this is an online community.
  • Bico wolfshadow February 01, 2009 08:59:42
    Bico
    +1
    You're probably right to do that. A general rule of forums is "do not feed the trolls," after all.

    I just find him too entertaining to block, though.
  • StringT... Bico February 01, 2009 19:29:31 (edited)
  • Bico StringT... February 02, 2009 02:23:26
    Bico
    Nice alliteration. However, such talk is highly revealing of your paranoid delusions. Also, calling wolfshadow or me arrogant is akin to the pot calling the kettle black. Your own words are filled with pride and condescending self-assurance. Your threats sound like those made by someone doing their damnedest to sound like their in the mafia or something. In any case, I'd just like to point out that you seem to be confusing me for a gay person. I'm actually quite unshakably straight. The sight of a naked guy makes me throw up a little in my mouth. Then again, I think tomatoes are disgusting, but I'll defend anyone's right to eat them.
  • StringT... Bico February 01, 2009 19:38:45
  • StringT... Bico February 02, 2009 00:50:26
  • Shadow13 StringT... February 23, 2009 04:18:41
    Shadow13
    All this sneaking around. One begins to think you're a peeping tom. Seriously, all this talk about sneaking up on people while they're taking a pee is quite disturbing.
    We can get you some more sock puppets, ones that won't whisper sweet nothings into your ear at night. Ones, you will most likely use to pleasure yourself while looking at your secret gay porn cache.
    Dude, you're such a hypocrite. You should just give it up and relocate to San Fran. We can all see through your facade.
  • Shadow13 Bico February 23, 2009 04:02:04
    Shadow13
    Trolling for trolls. Sounds like a sport. I'm in the same boat as you. He can say the most vilest things but it is all so entertaining. Because no matter what he will never win.
  • wolfshadow StringT... January 30, 2009 05:02:48

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