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Who is your favorite Economist...past or present?

Gracie - Proud Conservative 2012/06/24 23:02:34
My favorite economist of the past is Hayek, my favorite of today is Thomas Sowell. Who do you respect and why?
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  • Gracie ... dave s 2012/06/25 02:51:00
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +1
    She had to stay married to that creepy king, she had some pent up anxiety! LOL!
  • Cyan9 Psicolabis 2012/06/25 02:40:57
    Cyan9
    +1
    the labour theory of value is absurd on its face. One cannot detrime the value of something solely on the effort it takes to produce an item. Yes that influences it but it is only half the story. There is also demand which is as equally important. It gives a signel to how much something is valued in society so an equivelant amount of work can be put into producing it. Markets work when there is not a gross imbalence of power. The problem is that society is more hierachial than most would like to admit and so markets do fail. The challenge is correcting them not inefficently allocatally resources. Central planning has never worked on the long term. If any form of socialism is viable today it has to be a form of market socialism vested in democracy. Any other form of socialism or communism is absurd on its face and I would sincerally advocate you place your dislike for class based society in more nuanced ideas.
  • Psicolabis Cyan9 2012/06/25 03:04:43
    Psicolabis
    1) If you readed the capital you know that the production price is determined by labour hours and final price is indeed afected by the relationship between offer and demand. Please, read before criticize.
    2) Do you know what acctually socialism is? Socialism (the real one) is based on the democraticaly planned economy. That means that the society decides through differen means, like soviets, what is needed and informs other sectors how much they can produce.
  • Cyan9 Gracie ... 2012/06/25 02:23:15 (edited)
    Cyan9
    Your claim about the most colonized countries being better off is completely false. In fact the opposite is true, and Botswana is probably the prime example of this. Since it's independence it has maintained the highest rate of growth in Africa. One of the main reasons for this is because the British left them alone. The relationship was an exchange of protection for hut tax. Because the British left the governmental structures pretty much alone, they had the institutions ready to create an inclusive democracy and economy. Nigeria one of the most heavily colonized states has suffered greatly for it. The British pitted the Christians against the Muslims with Colonial favoritism and dismantled any sense of cohesion there. Nigeria still very much suffers for it today. Even your example of the Belgian Congo is incorrect. The reason why it is one of the most economically failed reasons of the world today is because of the nature of its colonization. The slave trade and mining was based completely around exploitation. When the Europeans left, the natives simply changed the people in power, not the power structure. Colonial favoritism and exploitation created large imbalances in power which only perpetuated and reenforced systems based on economic and political exclusion. Even when y...
    Your claim about the most colonized countries being better off is completely false. In fact the opposite is true, and Botswana is probably the prime example of this. Since it's independence it has maintained the highest rate of growth in Africa. One of the main reasons for this is because the British left them alone. The relationship was an exchange of protection for hut tax. Because the British left the governmental structures pretty much alone, they had the institutions ready to create an inclusive democracy and economy. Nigeria one of the most heavily colonized states has suffered greatly for it. The British pitted the Christians against the Muslims with Colonial favoritism and dismantled any sense of cohesion there. Nigeria still very much suffers for it today. Even your example of the Belgian Congo is incorrect. The reason why it is one of the most economically failed reasons of the world today is because of the nature of its colonization. The slave trade and mining was based completely around exploitation. When the Europeans left, the natives simply changed the people in power, not the power structure. Colonial favoritism and exploitation created large imbalances in power which only perpetuated and reenforced systems based on economic and political exclusion. Even when you look at the New World this still holds true. Until the aftermath of the seven years war, The 13 colonies and the Crown largely cooexisted through benign neglect. The Spanish in Mexico and the rest of the encomienda system greatly exploited the people and created a corrupt elite just like in central Africa. This is even true when one looks at Argentina and sees that the less exploited regions are the most prosperous parts of the country today. In places like Australia, Canada and the US these colonies succeeded because instead of creating a system based off extraction, the British set up a relatively inclusive society based with the prototypes of a liberal democracy. That is the only reason an illusion of colonization creates prosperity exists. A lot of what I said is actually what Acemoglu is famous for and if you weren't too busy pulling out the socialist card, this might be apparent. I'm sorry this is long winded but it's probably the topic I've most studied and most familiar with and I felt obligated to correct the nation that colonization somehow creates prosperity. No, it's democratic institutions based on political pluralism with an inclusive economy capable of promoting technological change.
    (more)
  • Gracie ... Cyan9 2012/06/25 02:40:17
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +1
    Your figures on Botswana are old and they are experiencing negative growth despite the rest of Africa expanding. The main reason they were growing was not because Britain "left them alone" but because they managed their economy conservatively with budget surpluses. The natural resources and agriculture were further reasons for growth. The lack of corruption is always a plus.

    Give me an example of how India didn't benefit from colonization, mostly because they can speak English. We wouldn't be exporting technical and financial call centers if they couldn't speak the language now would we? Why do they speak English?

    For the record, I didn't pull out the socialist card, I was asking and you went all crazy!
  • wolf sloan 2012/06/24 23:31:33
    wolf sloan
    +6
    I don't know about my favorite but Ross Perot doesn't seem like the kook everyone took him for in the 90's
  • Gracie ... wolf sloan 2012/06/24 23:37:31
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +3
    He was a good businessman, I didn't see him as a kook, I voted for him. That's why we got Clinton, it was my fault!
  • wolf sloan Gracie ... 2012/06/25 11:16:50 (edited)
    wolf sloan
    +1
    As I remember from the time(s), a lot of people did. But don't blame yourself for Clinton.
  • CUDDLY BUT STILL CRABBY 2012/06/24 23:25:11
    CUDDLY BUT STILL CRABBY
    +7
    Ronald Reagan (an economist? No but .....)

    He warned us, we didn't pay no attention to his advice.
  • Gracie ... CUDDLY ... 2012/06/24 23:28:01
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +6
    He took the advice of Economist Arthur Laffer, and his Laffer Curve! Great advice!
  • No nonsense NanC...don't BS... 2012/06/24 23:19:16
    No nonsense NanC...don't BS me!
    +11
    Thomas Sowell........... he is the full package....
  • Gracie ... No nons... 2012/06/24 23:28:54
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +6
    He is a true intellectual. Can you imagine having his historical and economic knowledge in a professor? Too bad our universities aren't full of people like Sowell. He writes great books!
  • No nons... Gracie ... 2012/06/24 23:36:00
    No nonsense NanC...don't BS me!
    +10
    Yes, he does, (I used to say he could park his shoes under my bed anytime,
    but that was just figuratively)................ He had welfare and its effect
    on the Black community nailed back when he was such a young man.




    Welfare has destroyed the Black family, and he predicted that from the beginning.
  • Gracie ... No nons... 2012/06/24 23:38:55
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +4
    I love that, he destroys her!
  • No nons... Gracie ... 2012/06/25 00:08:58
    No nonsense NanC...don't BS me!
    +4
    He destroys 0bama too in his analysis.



  • Gracie ... No nons... 2012/06/25 00:36:29
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +2
    Wouldn't you love to watch Sowell debate Obama or even Obama's "so-called expert economists"? That would be so much fun!
  • No nons... Gracie ... 2012/06/25 03:24:58
    No nonsense NanC...don't BS me!
    +2
    That it would.
  • MQ-Amer... Gracie ... 2012/06/25 14:54:10
    MQ-American Values Again (AVA)
    Simply delicious!
  • DDogbreath 2012/06/24 23:18:50
    DDogbreath
    +5
    Milton Friedman with any doubt whatsoever.
  • Gracie ... DDogbreath 2012/06/24 23:30:38
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +3
    I love this one!

  • DDogbreath Gracie ... 2012/06/24 23:44:58
    DDogbreath
    +1
    Pinto Minto Zippo Junko

    pinto minto zippo junko

    Is that a young Bill Clinton? LOL
  • holly g... Gracie ... 2012/06/25 00:19:04
    holly go lightly
    +1
    That is classic.
  • Jackie G - Poker Playing Pa... 2012/06/24 23:15:38
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +4
    Current - I am with you Sowell - Past, I like Adam Smith
  • Gracie ... Jackie ... 2012/06/24 23:16:42
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +4
    Everyone has to love Adam Smith...without him, who would we be? Who knows!
  • Cognito22 2012/06/24 23:11:51
  • Gracie ... Cognito22 2012/06/24 23:17:58
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +4
    I have that posted on my profile, it's a beautiful classic. I've watched a lot of his debates and they are always fantastic! I haven't read much about him as a man, I need to do that now!
  • Cognito22 Gracie ... 2012/06/24 23:21:46
    Cognito22
    +4
    I would probably say Sowell since I read his articles more often.
    But this one video is like a fatal bullet to the Marxist argument against capitalism.
    (And I love it when Hollywood celebrities are schooled by someone in touch with reality.)
  • holly g... Cognito22 2012/06/25 00:23:13
    holly go lightly
    +2
    Donahue thinks he has had better days.
  • Gracie ... holly g... 2012/06/25 00:57:39
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +3
    Donahue never saw the light when it was right there shining in his eyes!
  • holly g... Gracie ... 2012/06/25 01:42:43
    holly go lightly
    +3
    Hate to say I still don't think he has.
  • Icono1 2012/06/24 23:08:17
    Icono1
    +3
    First Hayek then Sowell. They have a lot in common but I favor Hayek by just a hair.
  • Gracie ... Icono1 2012/06/24 23:19:33
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +3
    Well, much of Sowell's thinking is influenced by Hayek. You have to admit that Sowell's writing is a little easier to read and more entertaining. Hayek is dry and great! The Road to Serfdom is the best worst book I've ever read!
  • Icono1 Gracie ... 2012/06/24 23:28:53
    Icono1
    +2
    To a degree I agree with you.
  • Gracie ... Icono1 2012/06/24 23:39:58
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +3
    Don't get me wrong, I love Hayek's books, I've learned so much from him. Sometimes getting knowledge isn't at all entertaining, it's just satisfying.
  • Icono1 Gracie ... 2012/06/24 23:49:02
    Icono1
    +2
    Understand. No problem here. It is a matter of subjective judgments as to what one likes.
  • BlueMax372 2012/06/24 23:07:04
    BlueMax372
    +6
    Gracie, I agree with you 100% on both choices and for the very same reasons: You and I are classic Right-Wing Nut Jobs and proud of it!!! ;-) Besides that, Hayek and Sowell have been right about everything 100% of the time!
  • Gracie ... BlueMax372 2012/06/24 23:20:49
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +5
    That's why I'm always stunned that Keynes theories are still alive and well in the liberal community. They know it doesn't work but it fits their agenda. Well, I say they know but I guess only the ones pulling the strings really know, the rest are just dupes.
  • Icono1 Gracie ... 2012/06/24 23:28:01
    Icono1
    +4
    Correct.
  • BlueMax372 Gracie ... 2012/06/24 23:34:13
    BlueMax372
    +2
    I had thought that Keynes' crap had been buried by the early 70's and then covered over with more earth by the Reagan years but the glibs keep digging it up and imposing its zombie-like presence into our lives. We obviously cannot simply defeat the glibs. We have to destroy them.
  • Gracie ... BlueMax372 2012/06/24 23:41:06
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +3
    Well, what can we expect from people who look to a man who starved his own children for answers, Karl Marx!

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