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Who is more responsible for the poor economy. Bush and the republicans or Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats?

RedRockNv 2009/08/17 00:11:18
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When Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats took over congress the unemployment rate was 4.5 percent. My wife and I both working just bought a nice home in a good neighborhood. We had money in our pockets, money in the bank and investments. Nancy Pelosi said "Help is on the way." Now neither of us has worked in months our savings and investments gone and our home near forclosure a president that can't show a valid birth certificate and a country crumbling around us. Everyone blames Bush! Can't they see that it started with a Democraticly controlled congress and has been going down hill since they the democrates to the riegns?
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  • Anthem 2009/08/18 17:05:44
    My opinion is ......................
    Anthem
    +7
    Yes, we had a serious economic downturn during the later Bush years, caused by liberal Democrats and their goofy notion that everyone in America should "own" a home, even if they couldn't afford it. Had they been left in charge, Republicans would have solved the problem with sensible, time-tested, pro-business, free market remedies and we would be safely on the other side with a much improved economy and a strong market. Nobama and company reversed this and they are leading us to economic ruin and the folly of a single-payer health plan. It is all doomed to fail and us along with it.

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  • Lynn ReasonA... 2009/08/19 06:08:28
    Lynn
    Clinton wasnt the worst president ever and sure the economy wants awful either, but that was just luck and a lack of ill concieved tinkering. At least Clinton new when to NOT fuck with things... However, the government should NOT run a surplus. Thats called over taxation.

    Googling up "clinton surplus" I found some intersting opinion articles... More fun with numbers.

    http://www.craigsteiner.us/ar...
    http://thephantomrepublican.b...
  • ReasonA... Lynn 2009/08/19 12:33:42 (edited)
    ReasonANDorder
    More Bullsh*t.

    Yearly budget surpluses, if they are big enough, go toward paying down the national debt.

    How are we EVER going to pay down the national debt if we don't run budget surpluses?

    Think about it.

    No matter what you right wing websites have to say about it, we NEED yearly surpluses (big ones) in order to reduce the overall national debt.

    And as I already indicated, the Clinton administration worked hard to make its own luck. Clinton raised taxes for high earners, and his VP heavily promoted the Internet, attracted investors, and helped launch the Dot Com Boom.
  • Lynn ReasonA... 2009/08/19 19:29:45
    Lynn
    No, we dont need budget surpluses, we need the government to STOP SPENDING SO GODAM MUCH MONEY.
  • ReasonA... Lynn 2009/08/19 21:12:33
    ReasonANDorder
    . . . which, when combined with high tax revenue, leads to budget surpluses.

    And that can lead to paying down our massive national debt.

    Somebody's got to do it.

    Why should we put that responsiblity on the shoulders of our grandchildren?

    It's time for you Right Wing fools to realize, THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH.

    Quit being such disgusting deadbeats and take resposibility for a change.

    .
  • Lynn ReasonA... 2009/08/20 01:18:02
    Lynn
    Listen to yourself... jezus... are you really that thick?

    Simple math says if you take in more than you spend you will have more money. If you spend more than you make, you will have more debt. I think we can both agree on that.

    Whats wrong with balancing that 'spend less than you make' plan by spending less as opposed to taxing more?

    THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH. Tell the F'ing GOVERNMENT to stop being such disgusting deadbeats, not me. I work hard and pay my taxes and live within my means. I expect no less from my government. Can you say the same thing?
  • ReasonA... Lynn 2009/08/20 13:42:26 (edited)
    ReasonANDorder
    Hmmm . . . apparently you don't quite understand the relationship between the national debt and yearly budget deficits.

    Like any business, the US govenment has expenses and revenue. In order to pay for expenses, it must take in adequate revenue, and taxes are our government's main source of revenue. If expenses exceed revenue, then we have a deficit. Each year's deficit adds to the national debt.

    The national debt is cumulative. It grows every year, if we have deficits. In fact it takes a pretty good budget SURPLUS to pay down a little on the national debt, because of all the interest the government has to pay on loans.

    That means that in order to pay down the national debt, we need repeated and significant yearly budget SURPLUSES. And that means generating revenue through TAXES.

    If we don't pay down the debt, our descendants will have to, because somebody's got to do it.

    You're right, the government has not been living within its means, becasue it has allowed its debt to get very high. And that's because it has not taken in enough revenue through taxes to pay down the debt.

    Reagan started this, and it just took off through subsequent Republican administrations.

    Now, though, our government has been compelled to pay out stimulus money in order to keep the economy f...





    Hmmm . . . apparently you don't quite understand the relationship between the national debt and yearly budget deficits.

    Like any business, the US govenment has expenses and revenue. In order to pay for expenses, it must take in adequate revenue, and taxes are our government's main source of revenue. If expenses exceed revenue, then we have a deficit. Each year's deficit adds to the national debt.

    The national debt is cumulative. It grows every year, if we have deficits. In fact it takes a pretty good budget SURPLUS to pay down a little on the national debt, because of all the interest the government has to pay on loans.

    That means that in order to pay down the national debt, we need repeated and significant yearly budget SURPLUSES. And that means generating revenue through TAXES.

    If we don't pay down the debt, our descendants will have to, because somebody's got to do it.

    You're right, the government has not been living within its means, becasue it has allowed its debt to get very high. And that's because it has not taken in enough revenue through taxes to pay down the debt.

    Reagan started this, and it just took off through subsequent Republican administrations.

    Now, though, our government has been compelled to pay out stimulus money in order to keep the economy from totally crashing.

    So our debt has climbed much more quicly within the last year.

    But as I said, contrary to what Right Wingers would have you believe: THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH.

    Citizens need to realize they have a responsiblity to help pay expenses . . . and that means paying taxes . . . whether you choose to believe that or not.
    (more)
  • Lynn ReasonA... 2009/08/20 18:49:48
    Lynn
    I understand the difference quite clearly... Its you that has a problem understanding the idea that the governement needs to cut back, rather than take more.

    Have a nice day.
  • Tea in the Harbor 2009/08/17 16:14:37
    My opinion is ......................
    Tea in the Harbor
    I think the republicans carried the banner that got us here, but there were plenty of democrats who were complicit in the crime, and I do think crime is the right word.
    Want to fix it? Require that all political contributions be anonymous, and outlaw both corporate and labor contributions.
    Our Constitution guarantees free speech to people, nowhere does it allow for corporations, labor unions, or other special interests to effectively usurp that right and that is exactly what they have done. Special interest groups should be consulted on policy that affects their interests, but all of that consultation should be done on the record.
  • swimminggirl09 2009/08/17 15:45:35
    My opinion is ......................
    swimminggirl09
    the people who sent jobs over to place that pay less to people to work like china and mexico. at least thats one thing on my mind now
  • fuzzy K... swimmin... 2009/08/17 18:26:19
    fuzzy Ken "In G*d We Trust"
    +1
    please remember to thank the Clintons.
  • ReasonANDorder 2009/08/17 14:56:44 (edited)
    My opinion is ......................
    ReasonANDorder
    +2
    No doubt about it. Bush and the Republicans bear at least 95 percent of the responsiiblity for this horrible economy.

    Years of Republican malfeasance culminated in this disaster, and it's going to take time for the Democrats to reverse the damage . . . especially given the fact that the Repugnant ones are doing their best to make sure Obama's administration will fail in helping America.

    Rush Limbaugh said it best, "I hope Obama fails."

    That sums up the dirty, low-down, traitorous attitude of the Repubiican Right, who are determined to see America in pain.
  • pork&beans ReasonA... 2009/08/17 21:08:04
    pork&beans
    +1
    Please add me as another who hopes Obama fails!! Limbaugh nor I, said we want America to fail, which will be the end result of Obama suceeding,got that?
  • ReasonA... pork&beans 2009/08/18 13:08:31 (edited)
    ReasonANDorder
    duly noted . . . you are TRAITOROUS scum determined to see America fail under this Democratic administration.

    Truly patriotic Ameircans would not want this country to fail ever . . . no matter which Party is in control of the White House.
  • pork&beans ReasonA... 2009/08/18 14:50:33
    pork&beans
    Just whom died making you judge and jury?"You are TRAITOROUS scum determined to see America fail under this administration" ,hmmmmmmmmm , imagine the irony,you wanted America to fail in Iraq at the expense of our troops, you fail to see yourself in your own words,you sir, are an OXYMORON.
  • ReasonA... pork&beans 2009/08/19 12:42:58
    ReasonANDorder
    I NEVER wanted America to fail in Iraq.

    I NEVER wanted Bush to fail in helping our country.

    Bush and the Republicans did all their failing by themselves.

    Only low-life, traitorous scum want America to fail when an opposition party occupies the government.

    . . . . Low-life traitorous scum . . . like so many right wingers in America today.
  • pork&beans ReasonA... 2009/08/19 18:43:44
    pork&beans
    Opposition eh, I will not cease in my opposition to changing the fundamental principles my country was built on. The Founding Fathers would beg to differ with your opinion of me,blood has been spilled for 233 years to preserve America,some belonging to my family! So let me reiterate for you,yes, I want Barack Obama and his Socialist agenda to fail, nothing you say or do will change that!Folks are waking up to just what a nightmare this Leftist is to freedom,The Constitution,America! Only a complete oxymoron such as yourself would be blinded by these shit piles that occupy the majority of U.S. government,you can kiss my America loving,Constitution believing posterior,got that? Dont like what I say,snitch me to your President(wanna be RULER) who wants citizens names!
  • ReasonA... pork&beans 2009/08/19 20:20:47 (edited)
    ReasonANDorder
    What "socialist agenda?"

    Is universal health care any more socialist than medicare?

    Is it any more socialist than public roads, public sewer systems, or clean water provided by government?

    And do us all a favor . . . Look up "oxymoron," and try to use it correctly in a sentence.

    By the way ann, being a low-life traitor to the United States of America is something that only a Right-Wing Limbaugh-worshiper would be proud of.
  • pork&beans ReasonA... 2009/08/20 21:56:46
    pork&beans
    Hmmm,Medicare is Socialist.....well maybe for the bloodsucking Dems and leeches who havent contributed a dime, but hardly for folks who have spent 30 to 40 years contibuting MONEY to build the system, dumbass! Look face it ,you boy, are in love with Obama,why you are so blinded St.Peter couldnt change your mind,or, perhaps its an empty head you have! Whatever run along boy I have much bigger fish to fry,to kiss your guy goodbye in 2012! Later!
  • ReasonA... pork&beans 2009/08/21 02:15:36 (edited)
    ReasonANDorder
    Ah ann sweetie . . . don't call names . . .

    Actually your idea that Republicans pay more taxes than Democrats is completely wrong.

    As a matter of fact, as a rule, Red (Republican) states benefit from federal tax and spending policies . . . and the blue (Democratic) states foot the bill.

    http://taxprof.typepad.com/ta...

    Yes, that's right. Blue States, predominantly Democrat, foot the bill for you dead beat Right Wingers.

    And I think it's about time you got off your asses and provided for yourselves for a change.

    So about it?

    How about you just stop crying and bitching and moaning and acting out and obstructing progress and telling great big lies?

    . . . And do something constructive for a change.
  • pork&beans ReasonA... 2009/08/22 20:32:13
    pork&beans
    Aw sweetie, condescending ,strong woman hating,male chauvinist piglet,you are the king of name calling! Read your idiotic posts ,to see your little self, in your own, twisted repugnant words!Man up, get a real job, no one is interested in keeping your lazy hiney,well,maybe your momma! You are obviously smitten with me,but, if I wanted to hear babble I'd sit beside a brooke, what a whiner are you......! Last post,I have a multitude of property taxes to pay.
  • ReasonA... pork&beans 2009/08/24 03:01:10 (edited)
    ReasonANDorder
    Yes ann . . . I am smitten !!

    I love you the same way I love Sarah Palin.

    By voicing her idiocy, she drives thinking people AWAY from the Repubican Party.

    And so do you . . .but on a lesser scale.

    And that is good for America.

    Thank you dear . . . for being you !
  • bill 2009/08/17 14:28:08
    My opinion is ......................
    bill
    +3
    It all started IN 1977 with the Community Rehabilitation Act. A Jimmy Carter brainstorm, that was implemented by Bill Clinton in 1995. The rest is history.
    This is an unbelievably big Democrat scandal that is being covered up by a very liberal news media.
  • ReasonA... bill 2009/08/17 15:02:01 (edited)
    ReasonANDorder
    That's Complete Bullsh*t bill.

    I know how Repubicans love to pass the buck, but facts are facts.

    Loan defaults due to the CRC are a small percentage of overall defaults.

    The problem actually started back during the Reagan era, when Ronald (Destroy America) Reagan decided to back deregulation and a laizzes-faire, do-nothing government. He reduced taxes for high earners, and then he had to borrow heavily to pay for expenses. And our national debt skyrocketed.

    GW Bush copied his hero, and out-Reaganed Reagan. As a result, our economy crashed.

    And now, all these loudmouthed Republican apologists are looking to place the blame somewhere other than where it belongs . . . And the blame belongs squarely on the shoulders of Repubican "leadership."

    .
  • bill ReasonA... 2009/08/17 16:38:59
    bill
    +3
    When Clinton implemented The Community Rehabilitation Act,it changed the Banking laws in the country that led to this whole debacle. No one is apologizing for anything .We know where it started and who promoted it.
  • ReasonA... bill 2009/08/17 17:05:51 (edited)
    ReasonANDorder
    You are COMPLETELY full of it.

    You don't know a thing. All you know how to do is parrot PURE LIES spouted by low-life scum like Rush Limbaugh et al.

    Shortly after GW Bush was elected President, fellow Texan Phil Gramm sneakily submitted the the Commodity Futures Modification Act into a budget bill, unbeknownst to Democrats.

    This bill contained the Enron loophole, and it made it possible for firms to invent and trade extremely shaky derivatives. As a direct result of this, corporations fell like dominios,. after speculators realized these derivatives were worthless.

    Sneaky Republican SLIME are behind this economic fiasco . . . no matter what some slimy Conservative Entertainers may have to say about it.

    Right Wingers are behind this economic slump.

    Thanks a heap bill.

    Because of the willing ignorance of people like you, our country is in decline.

    Right Wingers are bringing our country . .
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  • bill ReasonA... 2009/08/17 18:00:14
    bill
    +1
    If this was the cause?The liberal media would have jumped on it,and they would have never let go. The media hates Reagan and Bush just as much as You do. They would never give them a pass, on anything!
  • ReasonA... bill 2009/08/17 19:16:27
    ReasonANDorder
    This was and IS the cause.

    All you have to do is look at history . . . and use your head.
  • randy ReasonA... 2009/08/18 00:28:04 (edited)
    randy
    They are all to blame, republicrats and democans alike. Why didn't the repubs do anything about the Community Rehabilitation Act? Both the (R) and (D) care nothing except being reelected. Not you or me. If it was republicans fault, why didn't the Democrat congress do anything about since 2007? Why is Obama blaming the debt on Bush when he voted for TARP? Clintons surplus was a myth.
    http://www.craigsteiner.us/ar...
    http://media.www.sbstatesman....
  • ReasonA... randy 2009/08/18 02:22:29
    ReasonANDorder
    In 2007, the Dems had a very small majority in Congress . . . certainly not enough to override a Presidential veto.

    Still the fact remains, government deregulation (a Conservative Republican mantra) led to this economic fiasco.
  • Mystery_K 2009/08/17 11:18:22
    My opinion is ......................
    Mystery_K
    +1
    I don't think we can attribute this to one person, party or establishment.
  • ReasonA... Mystery_K 2009/08/17 15:03:18 (edited)
    ReasonANDorder
    Yes we can.

    The blame belongs to myopic, irresponsible Republicans who kowtowed to high earners by reducing their taxes and deregulating the finance industry.

    Cowardly Republican "leadership" is directly responsible for this fiasco.
  • Diane 2009/08/17 03:59:00 (edited)
    My opinion is ......................
    Diane
    +4
    My opinion is best expressed in these two articles:

    From:

    http://www.dailyfinance.com/2...

    George W. Bush left so many memorable things in his wake. Sure, there were those two wars. . . However, for a legacy that keeps on giving, W's greatest leave-behind is a level of income inequality that outpaces even that of the Roaring '20s that led to the Great Depression.

    In 2007, the top .001 percent of American earners took home 6 percent of total U.S. wages -- about twice the figure for 2000, notes Emmanuel Saez, an economics professor at University of California–Berkeley. Saez also found that the top 10 percent of American earners pulled in 49.7 percent of total wages: a level "higher than any other year since 1917 and even surpasses 1928."

    What did W have to do with this? He cut $1.3 trillion worth of taxes, 32.6 percent of which went to the top 1 percent of earners. And thanks to $7.8 million in contributions from Ameriquest, a subprime-mortgage company, President Bush pushed his Ownership Society initiative to get poor people into mortgages they could not afford so that Wall Street could engorge itself on borrowing to buy toxic waste.

    But truly, W's legacy of income inequality is best reflected in the earnings of his Yale classmate Steve Schwarzman, CEO of the Blackston...











    My opinion is best expressed in these two articles:

    From:

    http://www.dailyfinance.com/2...

    George W. Bush left so many memorable things in his wake. Sure, there were those two wars. . . However, for a legacy that keeps on giving, W's greatest leave-behind is a level of income inequality that outpaces even that of the Roaring '20s that led to the Great Depression.

    In 2007, the top .001 percent of American earners took home 6 percent of total U.S. wages -- about twice the figure for 2000, notes Emmanuel Saez, an economics professor at University of California–Berkeley. Saez also found that the top 10 percent of American earners pulled in 49.7 percent of total wages: a level "higher than any other year since 1917 and even surpasses 1928."

    What did W have to do with this? He cut $1.3 trillion worth of taxes, 32.6 percent of which went to the top 1 percent of earners. And thanks to $7.8 million in contributions from Ameriquest, a subprime-mortgage company, President Bush pushed his Ownership Society initiative to get poor people into mortgages they could not afford so that Wall Street could engorge itself on borrowing to buy toxic waste.

    But truly, W's legacy of income inequality is best reflected in the earnings of his Yale classmate Steve Schwarzman, CEO of the Blackstone Group (BX). Schwarzman's $702.4 million payday last year makes him the highest paid executive in America.

    You may recall him as the fellow whose 60th birthday party in February 2007 cost millions, but Schwarzman also hosted a $1.2 million fundraiser for Bush that helped pave the way for China to invest $4 billion in Blackstone prior to its IPO.

    From:

    http://money.aol.com/article/...

    WASHINGTON (Aug. 13) - A deal with Switzerland settling U.S. demands for the names of suspected tax dodgers from a Swiss bank has a lot of wealthy Americans with offshore accounts nervously running to their tax advisers — and the Internal Revenue Service.
    "They are very frightened," said Richard Boggs, chief executive of Nationwide Tax Relief, a Los-Angeles-based tax firm that specializes in clients with tax debts exceeding $100,000. "You have the super rich who are not used to being pushed around and they are finding themselves in unfamiliar territory."
    . . .
    President Barack Obama, in his proposed 2010 budget, asked Congress to pay for 800 additional agents, examiners and lawyers to go after people who hide money overseas. Obama also wants Congress to require overseas financial institutions doing business in the U.S. to share more information with the IRS.
    Earlier this year, UBS admitted assisting U.S. citizens in evading taxes as part of a deferred prosecution agreement with the Justice Department. UBS agreed to disclose the names of about 300 American clients and pay a $780 million penalty. The IRS subsequently filed its case seeking the names of 52,000 additional U.S. taxpayers believed to be hiding assets in UBS accounts.
    (more)
  • iamnothere Diane 2009/08/19 13:29:23
    iamnothere
    Excellent post.. would like to add just a thought.. New data Released by the IRS has just shown that the top 1% income earners pays more in tax than the bottom 95% combined.

    An analysis of IRS data by the Tax Foundation shows that the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 40.4 percent of the total income taxes collected by the federal government, the highest percentage in modern history. While the bottom 95 percent paid 39.4 percent of the income tax burden.

    The tax foundation rightly notes that putting this in perspective, the top 1 percent is comprised of just 1.4 million taxpayers and they pay a larger share of the income tax burden now than the bottom 134 million taxpayers combined.


    Of course, this isn't even taking into account President Obama's plan to increase the top marginal tax rate to almost 60%.

    Inequality makes me wonder as Barney Frank told his constituents yesterday.. What planet are you from?
  • ReasonA... iamnothere 2009/08/19 21:24:06
    ReasonANDorder
    +1
    Lets see some proof Slick.

    And not some made-up BS from a Wrong-wing website either.
  • iamnothere ReasonA... 2009/08/19 23:36:37
    iamnothere
    I got this from one of the government sites.. I am sorry you do not believe the IRS
  • ReasonA... iamnothere 2009/08/19 23:46:00
    ReasonANDorder
    +1
    iF you got your information from a "government site," then why can't you provide us with a link?
  • iamnothere ReasonA... 2009/08/20 01:14:21
    iamnothere
    will have to go back and find it.
  • iamnothere ReasonA... 2009/08/20 01:26:16
  • ReasonA... iamnothere 2009/08/20 12:59:07 (edited)
    ReasonANDorder
    None of those are "government sites."

    Those are all Ultra-Wrong Wing propaganda outlets (i.e., lie dispensers and conduits for slander).

    That wasn't even a nice try.
  • iamnothere ReasonA... 2009/08/20 16:30:57
    iamnothere
    Because you are such a dick head here is the link from the US TREASURY

    www.treas.gov/topics/taxes/Ta... - 2008-05-29

    NOTE that is treas.gov..

    it gives exactly the same information that you would not accept from three other independent sources..

    Now get over yourself This is from the government and not a right wing source .. I understand that you are incompetent.. and unable to do a simple web search

    Signed conservative who does not slander or conduit slander

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