When Did Corporations Become "People"?

Get some sleep, rocat. You're getting abusive and your writing doesn't even look like e.e. cummings anymore. What would he think of you talking like that? You're starting to act like a liberal troll on me now. I should flag you for that behavior. I'm really surprised at you.

Pffttt... nonsense. There is no such animal as "group rights." They don't exist as groups are merely concepts. Individuals have rights, not corps.

Collectivist much?

This is an important distinction you're making here - it flies in the face of everything this country was founded on.

The Federal Govt. has NO authority to "grant rights" which is precisely what the Citizens United ruling did. If govt. can grant rights, it can also take rights away as the source of rights determine their nature.

If groups have rights like individuals - then the largest group dominates. And what is the largest group? Why, the govt. - which is itself a CORPORATION.

It is you and the rest of the "corporations are not people" mob who are missing the critical distinction that our country was founded on.
Do you recall that "the right of the people peaceably to assemble" is part of our first amendment rights? Only a dictatorship doesn't recognize the existence of group rights. Under such a regime only government authorized collectivism is allowed to exist.
So how about you? Collectivist much?
The Citizens United ruling isn't a granted right by the Supreme Court. It's a right we already possess which was confirmed by the ruling. And a right by independently formed corporations that is under threat by the 'largest corporation' as you call it, the government.

Nonsense - pure unadulterated nonsense.

Individuals have the right to peaceably assemble, the assembly itself has no rights - the assembly is a CONCEPT. People have rights, not groups.

To suggest that "groups" have rights would be to legitimize the notion of 'Democracy', which our Founders openly loathed.

Our Constitutional Republic was fashioned with the sole intent of protecting the rights of the Individual against groups rights / mob rule and the group our founders sought to protect individuals from was in fact Govt. - the largest corporate collective of them all.

No one said that corporate collectives cannot speak their piece - of course they can. They can do so as private citizens, without their corporate collectives being recognized as Individuals. What they can't do is dump unlimited amounts of money into our elections and use the voice of money to overpower the voice of people. And the SCOTUS has no authority whatsoever to "grant" them such a right to begin with.

Now you've lowered yourself to disenfranchising assemblies of free individuals. If the government doesn't recognize the validity of an assembly because of it's concept, then there is nothing legally to prevent the government from outlawing that assembly as is commonly done under dictatorships.
You are right about our Constitutional Republic being formed to protect the citizen from the largest corporate collective which is the government. But you are disingenuous in suggesting that privately formed corporations have unlimited amounts of money to dump into elections. Only the federal government with its taxing authority has unlimited amounts to wield. The corporation as I've said earlier is a legitimate entity for leveling the field against government's vast power.
Another blind spot in your argument is the fact that privately formed corporations must compete with each other in putting out their ideas which diminishes their influence. The U.S. government on the other hand has no competition.

Y' know, when you open your replies with statements like "Nonsense - pure unadulterated nonsense" I get the impression that you're doing that to compensate for a weak argument. Try making your arguments without using the insults as a crutch for a change and see how that works out for you.

I've disenfranchised no one - all individuals have rights. INDIVIDUALS, not Groups. Stock holders, business owners, corporate lackeys - all have rights as individuals. Their corporate collectives - however, do not have the rights of individuals.

And they are not competing with govt. - they're buying the govt.

**BTW - can you point out to me where I insulted you personally? Thanks.

When you defined an assembly as a concept you've committed disenfranchisement. Those whom the government would enslave or eliminate must first be dehumanized. That is all your argument amounts to.

You mean you're not aware that your previous post begins with "Nonsense - pure unadulterated nonsense?" My goodness! There must be a hacker adding unauthorized phrases to your posts! You couldn't have possibly intended to open any of your posts with a disrespectful tone, could you?

An assembly is a concept - it consists of Individuals, it doesn't exist alone. lol

It is nonsense.

If you call anything a concept you're describing something immaterial. I live in Redmond Washington and Microsoft is definitely not a concept here. It stopped being a concept the day Mr. Gates first stepped into his garage. Your argument is the nonsensical one.

It is immaterial without individuals to comprise it.

And corporations are comprised of individuals. My point exactly.
Did you think you were making another point? You seem confused on this issue.

And each of those individuals have rights... as Individuals, not individual rights as a collective.

They have rights as a corporation AND rights as individuals. Shouldn't we all have rights collectively and individually? Or do you take the side of the government that wants to suppress some people's rights that are problematic to its agenda?

We do all have rights as individuals - what more could one ask for? All business owners have rights, as Individuals.

Now you're talking that hybrid-socialist / corporatist bs. No - it can't and won't be both. Our attempt is failing miserably, look around you.

There are no such collective rights - as rights don't come from groups, they are inherent to self-determined Individuals ONLY.

So you take the side of government that feels secure in dividing us individually so it can easily pick us off one by one rather than have to contend with any united opposition of citizens ordering their own lives independent of government? It is your logic that fails miserably assuming you value our liberty.

Look around at what?

Looking for someone to blame, are you?

It's the duty of every self-determined individual to defend their own rights. You don't have to like it - but that is a necessary prop of freedom.

Look around at the hybrid system we have now - it's failing for a reason. It doesn't work.

Thanks for the reveal, btw.

I'm not blaming you. I'm just telling you you're wrong to blame corporations for the shady politicians who pander to groups, playing them off against each other out of class envy and then boast that they have the solutions to everybody's problems. The corruption will stop when the voters stop selling themselves out to the big government grifters.

The Federal Government is itself a corporation. lol Are you aware of this? I mean really, REALLY aware of this?

And if you are - then how could you possibly argue in favor of individual rights being 'granted' to corporations?

Are you aware the federal government is not a corporation founded by private citizens? That it relies on its taxing power to function because it produces nothing on its own? That most of the services it provides are monopolistic and protected from competition by law? You're talking about a totally different beast than a corporation and distorting the very definition of the word.
And individual rights weren't 'granted' to corporations. They were upheld by the Supreme Court.

i can-...did-

Can? Did? What is this in reply to?

your comment that foxy could not address with logic-

That's way too high up there for me to find. It's probably on the previous page.

the little grey arrow on left...
will collapse all replys between the two relevant ones-

Nah, doesn't help much.

the talking point...
is...
that corporations are persons-

they are legally constructed entitys-
but made of paper-

a dog is an entity...
an amoeba is an entity...
neither are "persons"

are you aware this ruse...
was perpetrated on us by the early progressive movement???

a thing created/owned by people...
is not a person-
simply absurd to think so-

ponder this...
is a church a person???
is a party a person???
is a bowling team a person???
is your family a person???

just think on it a while-

A corporation is no more just a piece of paper than I am nothing more than my Washington State driver's license. Think on that.

what poppycock-

i can assure you...
you and your rights existed before any paper addressed them-

is that not the basis for our nation???

Fascinating premise, right?

And corporations existed before any paper addressed them too.

please...do explain-

No explanation necessary. You just need to break out of your narrow minded cliche definition of what constitutes a corporation.

so your bowling team is a corp-
by your def-

Yep. My bowling team's just us guys. Not underwear stealing gnomes. And if you got a beef with our team you're dealing with us.

an entity...
cannot be an "us"-

see how the language you use reveals the truth???

If an entity isn't about us there's no entity present. We have left the building and moved our entity to a local diner.
I only see how you use language to express your screwy logic.

the language used ...
was yours...
not mine-

I always speak plain English. What language is yours?

"My bowling team's just us guys. Not underwear stealing gnomes. And if you got a beef with our team you're dealing with us."

don't be an ass...
like so many on here-

I'm willing to debate with you in a civil manner over whatever point you have to contend with if you like. If you've got a beef with our bowling team, The Gutter Gnomes, feel free to share it with us. Just don't be an ass yourself.
No, don't talk to the bowling ball. We're up here. We're a freely associating entity and our team has certain rights and privileges at the local Sunset Lanes. Now let's bowl.