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What Losing The Argument Looks Like

Foxy Warrior Guru 2012/02/20 17:37:59

This is what happens when you shovel BS higher than your head.

What Losing The Argument Looks Like

February 16, 2012 11:33 am ET by Eric Boehlert

Even when you try to build an airtight echo chamber, sometimes outside and unwanted information filters in and is impossible to ignore. For Fox News, the recent unpleasantness has taken the form of falling unemployment numbers ( http://abcnews.go.com/Business/january-unemployment-rate-fall... ) as well as President Obama's rising approval rating. ( http://www.cbs19.tv/story/16944797/cnn-poll-obama-approval-ra... )

The news is difficult for Fox to digest because two of the core claims it has been making about Obama is that he's destroying the U.S. economy (and capitalism as we know it), and that he's a political failure. But now both of those storylines are unraveling based on empirical evidence about the employment rate and the president's standing in the polls.

So if you're Fox's Gretchen Carlson, what do you do this week? You suggest that the improving unemployment numbers, as tabulated by the Labor Department, may have been "fabricated"
And if you're Fox's Sarah Palin on the same day? You suggest Obama's improved approval rating is based on "misinformation given to the American people."

In other words, Fox News is somewhere between damage control and denial, and this approach has the makings of a year-long conspiracy theory Fox will have to keep spinning throughout the presidential campaign. (i.e. People only like Obama because they are misinformed about him and because of fabricated findings.)

The plight highlights what has always been one of Fox's most pressing programming dilemmas: How is the anti-Obama channel going to explain good news for Obama? And how is Fox going to explain to fans if and when Oama is re-elected? For loyalists who tune in everyday for their daily dose of Obama Derangement Syndrome, Fox has confirmed and re-confirmed many times over that the president is a monster of historical proportions and is doing untold damage to the country as he shreds democracy and liberty.

If that's true, what would account for a possible Obama victory in November? ( http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/gen... ) Or in the short term, what would account for the president's growing popularity and the improving economy? For now, Palin clings to the "misinformation" claim, while Carlson peddles the line about unemployment numbers possibly being "fabricated."

That's what losing the argument looks like.

Read More: http://mediamatters.org/blog/201202160006

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  • Jimbo 2012/02/20 19:01:24
    Jimbo
    +16
    Farleigh Dickenson's study said Foxnews viewers knew less about what is going on then people that don't watch news at all. Their talking heads are a major part of it with their misinformation campaign. Gretchen nearly cried at the good news for Obama and the country. I have my own question on whether Hannity or his audience are dumber.

    http://www.sodahead.com/unite...

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  • harley oldman 2012/02/28 15:29:10
    harley oldman
    NOT SURE... I tune out Idiots, especially the ones on SH....!
  • jimrthy BN-0 2012/02/25 19:34:37
    jimrthy BN-0
    +2
    Bwahahaha!

    *Possible* Obama re-election?!

    After "conservatives" passed the Patriot Act and ramped up the drug war, I'm almost looking forward to watching him spend another 4 years butchering freedom in America.

    We're now reaping what we sowed way back when.
  • boots 2012/02/24 06:12:09
    boots
    +1
    APLAUSE


    Well written
  • Wilde~MoonChild ™ 2012/02/23 06:46:32
    Wilde~MoonChild ™
    +2
    Well they can get away with this since their viewers don't know any better.
  • Chris- Demon of the PHAET 2012/02/22 20:04:12
    Chris- Demon of the PHAET
    +5
    Is anyone actually surprised by this story?
  • Jeremiah 2012/02/22 18:05:41
    Jeremiah
    +7
    It is pathetic, isn't it? It is also good fun to watch them squirm.

    They will probably latch onto gasoline prices, and will try to explain how they are Obama's fault. Lacking credibility on that, they might echo Rick Santorum and attack birth control and sex as part of a NWO plot.
  • jimrthy... Jeremiah 2012/02/25 20:10:11
    jimrthy BN-0
    +1
    LOL.

    That's right! Obama invented sex to further the vast Left Wing Conspiracy!
  • Jeremiah jimrthy... 2012/02/26 15:50:19
    Jeremiah
    +2
    In a way I hope Santorum wins the nomination, because of all the fun we would have during the campaign for the general election. But, on the other hand, I don't want him even that close to the White House. He is just too scary.
  • jimrthy... Jeremiah 2012/03/05 06:11:22
    jimrthy BN-0
    +2
    Kind-of agreed. I don't hate the conservatives that much.

    It's a close call...these bastards *do* deserve what they're begging for.
  • Jeremiah jimrthy... 2012/03/12 16:57:12
    Jeremiah
    +1
    They really deserve someone like Sarah Palin, and she says she is ready to answer the call to duty. That would be a very enjoyable convention.
  • jimrthy... Jeremiah 2012/03/17 05:28:30
    jimrthy BN-0
    *barf*

    It would be appropriate, though. Mainstream Republicans need to have their noses wiped in their mess to remind them of some basic facts about reality.

    Mainstream democrats do as well, but I don't have the energy to deal with them. :-p
  • Michaelene 2012/02/22 17:03:12
    Michaelene
    +3
    This was predicted before he was selected as the dem nominee.

    Funny how none of the media is discussing the cost increase of food, services and goods, and the 25% increase of health insurance plans along with home, life, car, disability insurance, bank fees, closing costs, business certifications, education and all property taxes.
    tuition inflation
  • Stan Michaelene 2012/02/23 07:39:45 (edited)
    Stan
    +4
    Do you think it has anything to do with gas prices which are controled by the oil companies and what is going on in Iran and Greece? Oil companies even conduct their maintenance just before summer every year and gas prices go up. Who are you trying to blame the gas prices on?

    Further more, when Obama became President, do you think the reason the economy is not improving fast enough has anything to do with the $12 Trillion in national debt handed to him by the last three Republican Presidents, two ongoing wars costing $12 Billion per month, and the GOP vow to OBSTRUCT, HOLD THE COUNTRY HOSTAGE TWICE, FILIBUSTERING AND BLOCKING EVERY JOB BILL OBAMA PRESENTED, "SOCIAL ENGINEERING, AND DOMESTIC TERRORISM? Did you get amnesia, or do you just have a selective memory?

    All of these things are CLUES!
  • Michaelene Stan 2012/02/24 12:51:37
    Michaelene
    When do oil companies do maintenance? Well, there are two reason. One is scheduled and depending upon the unit it could be semi annual or every 5 years. Repairs happen all the time, randomly, dependent on need and may happen more often due to the moratorium on building new refineries since the 70's.
    I know several people from multiple states who are refinery workers so your assumption for spring maintenance is wrong. The reason for summer gas price changes are the components required in gasoline during different seasons.

    Refineries are closing, no new refineries have been built in decades. Good American jobs that are not being replaced while the remaining refineries are breaking even, not making huge profits. Transporting oil by ship or train costs more energy and raises the prices of gasoline.

    What part of my chart failed to explain my opinion? I shows the higher cost of living today that is being ignored by the entire government. It is unacceptable, just as much as Obama's economic record. obamas economic record
  • Stan Michaelene 2012/02/25 10:22:32 (edited)
    Stan
    +4
    But why is their maintenance an excuse to raise the gas tax? Don't they know when Summer is, and prepare extra gasoline before they go into maintenance Yes, and the gas price increases happens EVERY YEAR just like clock work. Are you now the protector of the oil companies too?

    And your myth about knowing refinery workers explains about the speculation in the futures markets on Wall Street, or what is going on with Iran and Israel HOW? The problem is not about the supply of oil, but the speculation of oil on the futures markets. What specifically are those nebulous changes in components required in gasoline you so glibly threw out as an excuse? The facts are that oil is not in shortage, nor is the refining of gasoline, and if your going to continue with that lie, just provide the FACTS that backs it up and I will agree with you. Why is it you can never provide the facts or proof of what you claim in your personal opinions? That's a damn BIG CLUE ABOUT YOUR TRUTHS AND REALITY!

    Again, where is your FACTS and PROOF that refineries are just breaking even and don't make huge profits? I thought you just said they just break even, so how do they pay their workers if they just break even? You don't seem capable of getting your story or excuses straight. OK, how else do you transport oi...


























































































































    But why is their maintenance an excuse to raise the gas tax? Don't they know when Summer is, and prepare extra gasoline before they go into maintenance Yes, and the gas price increases happens EVERY YEAR just like clock work. Are you now the protector of the oil companies too?

    And your myth about knowing refinery workers explains about the speculation in the futures markets on Wall Street, or what is going on with Iran and Israel HOW? The problem is not about the supply of oil, but the speculation of oil on the futures markets. What specifically are those nebulous changes in components required in gasoline you so glibly threw out as an excuse? The facts are that oil is not in shortage, nor is the refining of gasoline, and if your going to continue with that lie, just provide the FACTS that backs it up and I will agree with you. Why is it you can never provide the facts or proof of what you claim in your personal opinions? That's a damn BIG CLUE ABOUT YOUR TRUTHS AND REALITY!

    Again, where is your FACTS and PROOF that refineries are just breaking even and don't make huge profits? I thought you just said they just break even, so how do they pay their workers if they just break even? You don't seem capable of getting your story or excuses straight. OK, how else do you transport oil from Saudi Arabia other than by ship. Your myths about what raises oil prices show you don't fact-check or research a damn thing, because that is another conspiracy theory. Gas prices have been going up 5 cents per day, and that is being caused by shipping oil by ships and trains??????? If that is the case, and all oil is transported by ships and trains, then why don't the prices keep going up the year around, and what would then make the price of gasoline go down? Did the ships and trains stop transporting the oil? Your lies just expose themselves. I just love it when you make such asinine claims, and bury your face in another pile of your own crap. You don't even lie well enough to make your lies sound like common sense.

    What part of your chart explains the rise in the cost of gasoline, or why those statistics are where they are today? I would assume that the chart is intended to blame it on Obama rather than the real truth? First, what part of the price of gas increases does Obama have control of? FACTS BUBBA, FACTS??????? The President does not control the price of oil or gasoline because oil companies, international events, and speculation on the gasoline future markets on Wall Street sets the prices at the pump. When gasoline was over $4 in the Bush administration, he used the national petroleum reserves to bring the prices down, and gas only went down by 10 cents per gallon. Either your as dense as a post, or your lying through your teeth. I will be waiting for your FACTS and PROOF or the revelation of your lies and distortions of the truth. Now as to the other statistics in your little chart as to the economy and debt.

    Tell me, before the day Obama became the President, list all of the national debt he created and brought with him the day he became the President? Most of us would answer ZERO! HOW MUCH DEBT DID OBAMA INHERIT THE DAY HE BECAME THE PRESIDENT I'm just testing your level of honesty, integrity, and truthfulness as well as your knowledge of what recorded history is! I want to see if you know who is to blame for this economic abyss, or if your trying to blame the victims for what occurred.

    Our national debt is very high, and I am wondering if you have any concept of how it became so large as your chart seems to lay it at the feet of Obama? Most of the national debt was created by the last three Republican Presidents (Reagan, Bush I, and George Bush) To give you a little clarity, let me give you some facts and proof of what I say!

    DEBT BY PRESIDENT
    http://newsjunkiepost.com/201...
    http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

    $12 TRILLION IN NATIONAL DEBT
    (A clear proof of this with document links)
    http://zfacts.com/p/1170.html

    2009 DEFICIT ATTRIBUTED TO BUSH, NOT OBAMA
    http://www.cato-at-liberty.or...

    WHERE DID THE NATIONAL DEBT COME FROM
    http://www.dkosopedia.com/wik...
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-5...

    THE NATIONAL DEBT
    http://www.the-inter-web.com/...
    http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

    THE REAGAN EFFECT
    http://www.populistdaily.com/...

    Reagan and Bush I created $8.2 Trillion in national debt, and then George Bush created $3.9 to $4 Trillion, which means collectively, those three Republican Presidents created $12 Trillion of our national debt and passed it on to Obama. Bill Clinton was the only President during that period who created a surplus during the last four years of his administration.

    CLINTON SURPLUSES
    http://www.factcheck.org/askf...
    http://articles.cnn.com/2000-...
    http://crooksandliars.com/jon...
    http://amerpundit.com/2011/02...
    http://www.commondreams.org/v...

    George Bush created two ongoing wars, one of which was created on nothing but lies, which cost $12 Billion every month clear through those three Obama years. He also gave two big DEBT PRODUCING TAX CUTS AFTER TAX CUTS FOR THE FILTHY RICH ARISTOCRATIC MASTERS which won't be paid for a decade or more, and all through the Obama Presidency. He also laid a country on the edge of another Great Depression in the new Presidents lap, and said, here --you fix it Obama. You do understand that 25% unemployment cost lots of federal spending for the unemployment checks, and the revenue loss from lots of jobs, businesses going bankrupt also decreases revenue to the federal government to pay the nations bills? What do you suppose the interest is on $12 Trillion in national debt, two wars costing $12 Billion every month plus interest. And how much do you suppose Obama had to spend, for an economic abyss he inherited, to keep this country from sliding into another Great Depression? You seem like a smart person, so get you calculator out and add up all of the national debt that Obama inherited but did not personally create?

    Oh, but you say Obama did not make it any better during his three years. His policies stopped the near depression from getting worse in June of 2009 by the expert economists, and he created over 3.7 million new jobs during that three years. He accomplished more in three years than most President do in eight.

    OBAMA JOB GROWTH
    http://climateprogress.org/20...
    http://www.tax.com/taxcom/tax...

    FACT-CHECK ON JOB CREATION
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the...

    RECESSION IS OVER
    http://www.washingtontimes.co...
    http://www.cbsnews.com/storie...
    http://www.theatlantic.com/ma...
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/0...
    http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/...
    http://www.brookings.edu/arti...

    Why hasn't it got much better? That is now what your probably asking. The week Obama became President, the Grand Obstruction Party vowed to OBSTRUCT everything Obama did to fix the economic abyss they created. They then morphed that into OBSTRUCTION, HOLDING THIS COUNTRY HOSTAGE TWICE, FILIBUSTERING AND BLOCKING ALL JOB CREATION, "SOCIAL ENGINEERING, AND USING DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

    RIGHT WING OBSTRUCTION WILL COST THOUSANDS THEIR JOBS
    http://institute.ourfuture.or...

    GOP OBSTRUCTION SINCE BUSH LEFT OFFICE
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
    http://www.pfaw.org/media-cen...
    http://politicalhumor.about.c...

    WHATEVER OBAMA IS FOR, THE GOP IS AGAINST!
    GOP IS AGAINST
    http://politicalticker.blogs....
    http://articles.boston.com/20...
    http://www.frumforum.com/can-...
    http://swampland.time.com/201...

    GOP WANTS THE ECONOMY TO FAIL
    http://www.washingtonmonthly....
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
    http://www.politicususa.com/e...
    http://tech.mit.edu/V112/N5/c...
    http://thinkprogress.org/romm...
    http://m.lasvegassun.com/news...
    http://crooksandliars.com/joh...
    http://mydd.com/2010/1/7/what...
    http://www.businessinsider.co...
    http://www.inthesetimes.com/a...
    http://robertreich.org/post/3...
    http://www.hermes-press.com/s
    http://theweek.com/bullpen/co...
    http://www.expressmilwaukee.c...

    GOP HOSTAGE TAKING
    http://www.sacbee.com/2011/09...
    http://videocafe.crooksandlia...
    http://themoderatevoice.com/1...
    http://mykeystrokes.com/2011/...
    http://www.eclectablog.com/20...
    http://www.chron.com/opinion/...
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/0...
    http://nymag.com/daily/intel/...
    http://fdlaction.firedoglake....
    http://georgemiller.house.gov...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?...
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/...

    McCONNELL -- ON HOSTAGE TAKING
    http://www.examiner.com/polit...

    HOLDING THE COUNTRY HOSTAGE
    http://www.chron.com/disp/sto...
    http://www.politicususa.com/e...
    http://voicesofreason.info/
    http://www.juancole.com/2011/...
    http://fastlane.dot.gov/2011/...

    DOUBLE-DIP RECESSION
    http://www.alternet.org/econo...
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

    What I want to know from you, is did you do any fact-checking, research, reading, study recorded history before you posted and cast the blame for this mess on Obama where it doesn't belong? I hope your answer is no. If you are trying to blame it on the only person trying to pull us out of this mess, then show your FACTS AND PROOF AS I JUST DID.

    The sky is not less blue because blind conservatives do not see it. Nothing in a conservatives education is so astonishingly as the amount of ignorance it accumulates in the form of inert facts and denial. Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be your wishes, your inclinations, or the dictates of your passions, Bubba Monkey, you cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. Facts are God's arguments; and you should be careful never to misunderstand or pervert them. Facts do not cease to exist because you ignore them, and your mouth distorting the truth is not a fact no matter how much you wish it to be so!

    I would love to see things from your point of view half-wit, but nobody could get their head that far up your butt!
    (more)
  • jimrthy... Stan 2012/02/25 20:08:39
    jimrthy BN-0
    +3
    *Excellent* post!

    I could (and have) argued that Clinton's surplus was really just accounting fraud (by stealing from SS), but that part's almost just a side-note here.

    It's *really* stupid to blame the current situation on Obama.
  • Stan jimrthy... 2012/02/26 11:21:17
    Stan
    +5
    Thank you! I only use recorded history, facts, truth and reality to counter their lies, conspiracy theories, and distortions of the truth. It strikes them deaf, dumb, and mute!
  • jimrthy... Stan 2012/03/05 06:13:00
  • Michaelene Stan 2012/03/02 19:22:38
    Michaelene
    The oil companies have no effect on gas taxes, that is a decision made by the states.
    Summer gas costs increase due to the different ingredients used in seasonal gas types for environmental reasons. You ask me about the gas ingredients? It's not a hard answer to find on your own!
    Winter gasoline contains less BTUs per gallon, 112, 500; if you are using 100% gasoline (non-ethanol). Gasoline (conventional, summer), 0.996 US gallon, 114500 BTU/gal

    I guess you could call me the protector of oil companies, I view our country's oil reserves and the critical infrastructure involved as part of our national security. It's obvious that this is a bipartisan issue. The impact is seen in both unemployment, the closing of related businesses and the rising costs of transport. There will be a March 19 hearing led by Casey (PA-D) and Meehan (PA-R) to discuss the impact on our nation and it's global impacts as well.

    I didn't say they were breaking even. The 3 recent refineries that closed were operating at a loss.
    In the last week things have changed dramatically for the worse.
    Please search "refinery closures" and you can come to an informed conclusion on your own. It that's too hard look at my last question I asked for charts, websites, video's about the refining problem globally (see France and...




    The oil companies have no effect on gas taxes, that is a decision made by the states.
    Summer gas costs increase due to the different ingredients used in seasonal gas types for environmental reasons. You ask me about the gas ingredients? It's not a hard answer to find on your own!
    Winter gasoline contains less BTUs per gallon, 112, 500; if you are using 100% gasoline (non-ethanol). Gasoline (conventional, summer), 0.996 US gallon, 114500 BTU/gal

    I guess you could call me the protector of oil companies, I view our country's oil reserves and the critical infrastructure involved as part of our national security. It's obvious that this is a bipartisan issue. The impact is seen in both unemployment, the closing of related businesses and the rising costs of transport. There will be a March 19 hearing led by Casey (PA-D) and Meehan (PA-R) to discuss the impact on our nation and it's global impacts as well.

    I didn't say they were breaking even. The 3 recent refineries that closed were operating at a loss.
    In the last week things have changed dramatically for the worse.
    Please search "refinery closures" and you can come to an informed conclusion on your own. It that's too hard look at my last question I asked for charts, websites, video's about the refining problem globally (see France and Australias recent actions, both opposite of Obama's policy)

    I didn't bother to read the rest of your rants.
    Considering that magical mystery math is being used to purposefully confuse and omit the real data. Just figure in the enormity of the continuing damage to our economy by including Fannie and Freddie and our national debt is much larger than being reported (then add in AIG for a mind blowing stat).

    Unlike your comment that is all over the map. I'm focused on a problem we are facing today and it's implications and consequences coming in our near future.
    (more)
  • Stan Michaelene 2012/03/04 10:43:25
    Stan
    +1
    By oil companies, I meant the oil cartel, and I sure as hell did not refer to GAS TAXES. I was talking about what affects the price of gasoline at the pump, or didn't you read my posting? Since we import oil from the Middle East, the oil cartel is responsible for 50% of the direct cost of oil that is refined into gasoline. You tell yourself these lies, and then deny and distort anything that contradicts the lie you tell yourself. Since when did each state buy their own oil and then refine it into the finished product gasoline? A state may adjust their gasoline taxes, but this is not what is effecting the rise in gasoline prices currently. In your previous posting you said it was the transporting of oil by ship and train that causes the increase in gas prices, and then ignored my question about that lie. Why is it that you can't get your answers strait Sweet Cheeks? And are you claiming that the refineries don't know what months represent Summer. Sure the gas ingredients are different in the Summer, but they can refine the oil and gas mixtures before Summer hits? Is the Summer the only time a refinery can conduct maintenance, and why are you asking me to to do your fact-finding and research for you, as I don't ask you to do mine?

    And being the protector of the oil companies, wha...



























    By oil companies, I meant the oil cartel, and I sure as hell did not refer to GAS TAXES. I was talking about what affects the price of gasoline at the pump, or didn't you read my posting? Since we import oil from the Middle East, the oil cartel is responsible for 50% of the direct cost of oil that is refined into gasoline. You tell yourself these lies, and then deny and distort anything that contradicts the lie you tell yourself. Since when did each state buy their own oil and then refine it into the finished product gasoline? A state may adjust their gasoline taxes, but this is not what is effecting the rise in gasoline prices currently. In your previous posting you said it was the transporting of oil by ship and train that causes the increase in gas prices, and then ignored my question about that lie. Why is it that you can't get your answers strait Sweet Cheeks? And are you claiming that the refineries don't know what months represent Summer. Sure the gas ingredients are different in the Summer, but they can refine the oil and gas mixtures before Summer hits? Is the Summer the only time a refinery can conduct maintenance, and why are you asking me to to do your fact-finding and research for you, as I don't ask you to do mine?

    And being the protector of the oil companies, what is in it for you? What is your payback? You can view the oil reserves and anything else you please, but what relevance does that have to do with the cost of gasoline at the pump Sweet Cheeks? It might be a nice to know, but is that your dodge for the real reasons for the cost of gasoline in this country? In 2009 to 2012, we have no shortage of oil or gasoline as compared to previous years. In fact the supply of both is higher, so Supply and Demand is not a factor. Neither is that phony transportation by ship and train lie, and that is why you would not answer my questions about that. Damn right it is a bipartisan issue just like the economy and the creation of jobs are, but the only response from your group of maggots is OBSTRUCTION, HOLDING THE COUNTRY HOSTAGE TWICE, FILIBUSTERING AND BLOCKING ALL JOB CREATION, SOCIAL ENGINEERING, AND JUST PLAIN OLD DOMESTIC TERRORISM. SO TELL ME WHERE THE BIPARTISANSHIP PART COMES IN FOR YOU CONSERVATIVES?

    The President does not set the price of gasoline at the pumps, as you are now claiming the states do it (Another distortion of the truth.). Why is it that you can't get your facts or your story straight? And what party did you say was trying to blame Obama for the increase in gas prices? What impact is being seen in both unemployment, and the closing of what related business? Are you having a brain fart? Are we talking about the cause of the increase in gas prices at the pump, or the impact of the cost of goods because of the increase in gas prices Make your damn mind up what we are talking about Sweet Cheeks . Stay on topic for crying out loud. Hell you don't even recognize the causes of the increase in gas prices, let alone who or what is to blame for it.

    So you didn't say the refineries were just breaking even? Well let me do a little cut and pasting of your own words to expose another one of your lies.

    "Good American jobs that are not being replaced while the remaining refineries are breaking even, not making huge profits."

    Can you see your words " the remaining refineries are breaking even"??? Tell me again that you did not say that? Again, the supplies of oil and gasoline are greater now than in the previous years, and gas usage is way down because of the sales and usage of electric cars and hybrids, So your lack of new refineries, and the cost of shipping oil by ship and train is your bullsh*t that is the conservative's art of trying to make the idiotic sound sensible! In the last week what things have changed for the worse? Gas prices have been going up steadily for more than a week, and so has prices of other commodities related to increasing gas prices. You still will not comment about who you are trying to blame for this fiasco, and I gave you the reasons which has also caused the above $4 dollar cost during the Bush administration.

    It is caused by the GO Political forces in the world, the oil cartel, and oil speculation in the commodities market on the Stock Market. I know this is a contradiction of your lies and what you want it to be, but every search engine on the web will confirm just what I told you. Read the following links that tells about the CTFC commission set up by the government to control the speculation of oil futures and gas speculation control in the commodity futures trading on Wall Street. It explains how much money the speculators make by raising the gas prices. I don't make this crap up, I just report recorded history, and unless you can go back and rewrite history, Sweet Cheeks, your just going to have to suck it up and accept the facts, truth, and reality. Again, I don't give a tinkers damn about refineries closing, especially when there is no shortage of oil supplies or gasoline supplies. It is not because of Supply and Demand Neanderthal. Australia, and France do not control Oil and gasoline supplies in this country, so let them object to anything they want

    You posted that nebulous little chart claiming that it is Obama's record which is your Grand Obstruction party's mother load of lies, conspiracy theories, and distortions of the truth. Of course you didn't read it, because that would again confront, and expose your lies. You lie to yourself and then deny,anything that you don't want to hear, and that contradicts your concocted falsehoods. It's the bubble you live in Sweet Cheeks, that won't let the facts and truth in. I dare you to prove that anything that I gave you is that magical mysterious math or that was purposefully to confuse or omit real data? Do you always engage your mouth before starting your brain? You maggots are always making nebulous claims and myths, but you don't have the guts to show the proof of your lies and distortions of the truth. If you didn't read my posting entirely, then answer how you know that it is magical mysterious math being purposefully used to confuse and omit real data????????? Your again lying through your teeth, and you just exposed yourself. I have access to over 20 search engines that anybody can use to fact-check information, and recorded history. You could have proven your points and shoved them right back down my throat if I did what your claiming I did. I am challenging you to do just that you gaping primate, but we both know there are no facts for lies, conspiracy theories, and distortions of the truth. Your mouth does not qualify as a fact-finder.

    Fannie and Freddy did not cause this near-depression, because a commission was created by Congress to research the causes of this near-depression your half-wits created. It is called "CONCLUSIONS OF THE FINANCIAL CRISES INQUIRY COMMISSION", and was provided to Congress, and is on the Search Engines I referred to. Their conclusions did not blame Freddie and Fannie for creating this economic abyss your group of maggots created, so your going to have to make up another lie and distortion.

    MYTH OF FREDDIE AND FANNIE - RECESSION
    http://thelonggoodbye.wordpre...
    http://weblogs.baltimoresun.c...
    http://economistsview.typepad...
    http://mediamatters.org/resea...
    http://hubpages.com/hub/Fanni...
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/...
    http://www.lasvegassun.com/ne...
    http://modeledbehavior.com/20...

    If you have the guts and the nerve, go back up to my previous post and do read who created the national debt, the near-depression, and who is is currently trying to make the economy worse for political gain? You must have almost wet your pants in fear to face the facts, truth, and reality, and that is why your creating more lies, conspiracy theories, and distortions of the truth to avoid it. Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha! YOU CAN RUN, BUT YOU CAN'T HIDE SWEET CHEEKS.

    You are all fundamentalists with a top dressing of chaos and destruction. That is why you are the stupidest of Conservatives, T-Boogers, and reactionary in politics and the most bigoted of obstructionists and domestic terrorists. When it comes to getting your hate on you are all of the same opinion: stop it, lie about it, distort it, obstruct it, flog it, dynamite it, and stamp the truth right out of it.
    (more)
  • Michaelene Stan 2012/03/08 10:29:46
    Michaelene
    What's wrong with you?
    I can't even find a qestion in your rant.
    Why do you call me sweet cheecks and then refer to me as a maggot?
    If I'm a Fundamentalist then you're a communist? That's what you bring to the table, unsubstantiated dogma and an attitude of disparagement and malaise. You're not worth my time so move on troll man.
    Buy yourself a dictionary Stan.
  • Stan Michaelene 2012/03/11 09:14:20
    Stan
    +1
    Last time I checked, nothing is wrong with me. Most Of my conservative adversaries tend to react with hostility when I confront and expose their lies, but that is due to their insecurities, sense of helplessness, guilt, and inability to effect change. So you can't even find a question in my posting? Well I checked on the first four or five paragraphs, and found 13!
    I think the problem you are having is that first you don't read my postings. Second, I guess you don't understand that a sentence with a QUESTION MARK at the end of it is a QUESTION? Reading comprehension seems to be at the root of your problem. Here, let me give you a couple of examples.

    "Since when did each state buy their own oil and then refine it into the finished product gasoline?"

    "Why is it that you can't get your answers strait Sweet Cheeks?"

    "Is the Summer the only time a refinery can conduct maintenance, and why are you asking me to to do your fact-finding and research for you, as I don't ask you to do mine?"

    "And being the protector of the oil companies, what is in it for you? What is your payback?"

    "You can view the oil reserves and anything else you please, but what relevance does that have to do with the cost of gasoline at the pump Sweet Cheeks?"

    "It might be a nice to know, but is that your dodge for the r...



























    Last time I checked, nothing is wrong with me. Most Of my conservative adversaries tend to react with hostility when I confront and expose their lies, but that is due to their insecurities, sense of helplessness, guilt, and inability to effect change. So you can't even find a question in my posting? Well I checked on the first four or five paragraphs, and found 13!
    I think the problem you are having is that first you don't read my postings. Second, I guess you don't understand that a sentence with a QUESTION MARK at the end of it is a QUESTION? Reading comprehension seems to be at the root of your problem. Here, let me give you a couple of examples.

    "Since when did each state buy their own oil and then refine it into the finished product gasoline?"

    "Why is it that you can't get your answers strait Sweet Cheeks?"

    "Is the Summer the only time a refinery can conduct maintenance, and why are you asking me to to do your fact-finding and research for you, as I don't ask you to do mine?"

    "And being the protector of the oil companies, what is in it for you? What is your payback?"

    "You can view the oil reserves and anything else you please, but what relevance does that have to do with the cost of gasoline at the pump Sweet Cheeks?"

    "It might be a nice to know, but is that your dodge for the real reasons for the cost of gasoline in this country?"

    "The President does not set the price of gasoline at the pumps, as you are now claiming the states do it (Another distortion of the truth.). Why is it that you can't get your facts or your story straight?"

    "And what party did you say was trying to blame Obama for the increase in gas prices?"

    "What impact is being seen in both unemployment, and the closing of what related business?"

    "Are you having a brain fart?"

    "Are we talking about the cause of the increase in gas prices at the pump, or the impact of the cost of goods because of the increase in gas prices?"

    "So you didn't say the refineries were just breaking even?"

    "Good American jobs that are not being replaced while the remaining refineries are breaking even, not making huge profits"

    Sweet cheeks is a kinder way to refer to female conservatives without telling them what you really think, and then when you tell lies, conspiracy theories, and distortions of the truth, what I really think of you just slips out. I call your hillbilly male counterparts Bubba or Bubba Monkey. A monkey is smarter than a conservative, because when a monkey looks in the mirror he sees the truth -- a monkey!

    I know, I know Sweet Cheeks,. All of my conservative adversaries say the same thing about me (Communist) when I confront them and expose their lies. I have this great big old heart and can forgive them for their mental illness. If all I bring to the table is unsupported dogma, please tell me why you can't get the facts that what I say is untrue, and shove it back down my throat? I challenge you to prove any lies you think I am telling. I have never had a Conservative challenge me to do that before? I must confess that I just love to confront and expose the lies, conspiracy theories, and distortions of the truth with conservatives, and I do have an attitude, and I'm not afraid to use it.

    Sweet Cheeks, I am a bull dog, and once I grab hold of you, I don't let go. Open the ugly lying mouth of yours, and you will find me there. I don't know what is bothering you sweet Cheeks, but it must be suffering horribly.

    "Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy (The filthy Rich). Conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world. For thousands of years, conservatism was universally understood as being in opposition to democracy, and the destruction of reason.

    Conservatives do not trust the intellect or the will of the people. Their goal is to subjugate them for the benefit of a small minority of the privileged, while convincing the masses that this is the correct order of things, they have a great dislike for the very idea of equality. Equality you see is a very mischievous and complicated concept for them to handle. If it were not for the Declaration of Independence, it would be long gone by now. Equality is an ideal that contradicts everything they stand for. It is obvious that people do not enjoy matching portions of health, skill, talent, intellect, strong family support, wealth and privilege, and even good will. Because of that, equality loses its practical meaning. Democracy, where each person's vote, value and opinion are equal with everyone else, seems a naive form of government doomed to failure to the hidden agenda of conservatism. It always has. The founders of modern day conservatism make this very clear.

    Simply put, not everyone, as defined by conservatives should have an equal voice, because not everyone should be viewed as equal, and therefore deserving. Conservatism calls for us to surrender to their acknowledged aristocracy of those who have great wealth, leadership abilities, power, and stature. These include conservative politicians, corporate CEOs, the Filthy Rich, some religious leaders who tow the line, and purveyors of local prejudices (Governor Scott Walker, etc.), those who blaspheme the name of freedom by trying to control the thoughts and values of others. We all know them well

    Setting up an aristocracy of power is the central cause of conservatism, despite all the talk about national debt, religion, patriotism, taxes, spending, gun rights, and abortion. These issues are nothing but stepping stones to their goal, and all one has to do is look how these leaders live their lives to verify it (Glenn Beck, Sara Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich, Mitch McConnell, etc.). Their hypocrisy is undeniable, which is why wedge issues never really get resolved. Actions speak louder than words. Their chief concern proven over and over again is to cater to the Filthy Rich and powerful-while making sure that the working people are subserviently supportive of them through DEFICIT PRODUCING TAX CUTS, even against their own interests. Some democracy. When they talk of tradition, this is what they mean. They are harking back to a form of aristocracy rule rooted in the Middle Ages."
    (more)
  • Michaelene Stan 2012/03/11 14:20:21
    Michaelene
    I see how you put words into my mouth. I never said a state controlled oil or gas.
    I see how you refer to me with disdain and agressive ignorance. Your mockery continues to flow from your fabricated anger, in such chaotic ways, you wouldn't know the difference between the middle ages and the age of enlightenment.

    I think you need to be check by that doc again, you can't seem to stay focused on a single topic by your history lesson rant.

    Two things I agree with you about leaders, "all one has to do is look how these leaders live their lives to verify it" and "Actions speak louder than words." So to impose those two ideals upon Obama, leads me to say Obama Must Go, his lifestyle and his actions and even his tone make me want to barf.
  • Stan Michaelene 2012/03/12 22:51:07
    Stan
    +1
    Somebody sounds a little frustrated and angry. Was it something I said or did I touch one of your sensitive spots? What words do you think I have been putting in your mouth, and if you don't like words in your mouth, just spit them back out. Now was that all that hard to fathom Sweet Cheeks? You never said a state controlled oil or gas? Well let me do some cutting and pasting of one of your posting where you said just that.

    "The oil companies have no effect on gas taxes, that is a decision made by the states."

    And if you go back up to that posting where you said that, you will find that I never said one word about GAS TAXES, so that sounds like you were trying to put words in my mouth that I never said and I just spit them out. In that posting, I even said that I never said a word about "GAS TAXES". That came out of the sewer you call a mouth. Sweet Cheeks when you lie like you do, and use distortions of the truth, I can only give back what you are. If you don't like what you hear, I suggest you take a long look in your mirror and see your true reflection.

    Anger is such a wasted emotion Sweet Cheeks, so what makes you think I am angry? I am not angry at you, your just so damn insignificant. Why don't you pontificate what you know to be the differences between the middle ages and ...













    Somebody sounds a little frustrated and angry. Was it something I said or did I touch one of your sensitive spots? What words do you think I have been putting in your mouth, and if you don't like words in your mouth, just spit them back out. Now was that all that hard to fathom Sweet Cheeks? You never said a state controlled oil or gas? Well let me do some cutting and pasting of one of your posting where you said just that.

    "The oil companies have no effect on gas taxes, that is a decision made by the states."

    And if you go back up to that posting where you said that, you will find that I never said one word about GAS TAXES, so that sounds like you were trying to put words in my mouth that I never said and I just spit them out. In that posting, I even said that I never said a word about "GAS TAXES". That came out of the sewer you call a mouth. Sweet Cheeks when you lie like you do, and use distortions of the truth, I can only give back what you are. If you don't like what you hear, I suggest you take a long look in your mirror and see your true reflection.

    Anger is such a wasted emotion Sweet Cheeks, so what makes you think I am angry? I am not angry at you, your just so damn insignificant. Why don't you pontificate what you know to be the differences between the middle ages and the age of enlightenment? I have always been intrigued to know what the conservative ideology, policies, and dogma is, but I can never get one of you to give your rendition. I know what conservatives are and do from my research of conservatism, that I provided in my last posting. Do you disagree with what it reveals about your dogma?

    I am so glad you picked up on the statement that "all ones has to do is look how these leaders live their lives to verify it." Now all you have to do is look at FOX NEWS (an oxymoron as they just make up the news.), Rush Limbaugh, Sara Palin, Santorum, Gingrich, Romney, Ron Paul, and your Grand OBSTRUCTION Party leaders to understand the meaning of that statement. I stopped listening to what your maggots say, and just watch what they do, and therein is the truth. It is like watching your groups current conspiracy theory of "The War On Women" and Rush Limbaugh's current Filth Fest he started. He loves videos of women having sex! Wow, and that is so Christian and full of those Family Values that you profess to believe in.

    LIES OF RUSH LIMBAUGH
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?...
    http://www.politicalforum.com...
    http://www.apj.us/index.php?I...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?...
    http://www.alternet.org/media...
    http://www.theatlantic.com/po...

    Obama is not going to go anywhere, so what is your point? I have asked over and over, just what is it your trying to accuse Obama of? Show some specifics and facts Sweet Cheeks? Your always letting your mouth loose before engaging your brain. What is it about his lifestyle, actions and tone that upsets you so much? Your attacking the man, again, and not his ideology, or policies. You are either deeply involved in racism, or irrational hatred which is a pathology of your own magnified insecurities, sense of helplessness, feelings of guilt, and your inability to effect change. Your "Barf" comment sounds like it just came out of Santorum's mouth.

    Sweet Cheeks, I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day, and tomorrow doesn't look good either. Learn from your parent's mistakes and use birth control. Life is a garden, so quit being a hoe! Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha. You are the gift that keeps on giving..
    (more)
  • Michaelene Stan 2012/03/13 06:43:45
    Michaelene
    Your a thread flamer who is not worthy of my time, Flame on Sweet Cheeks
  • Jeremiah Michaelene 2012/02/26 16:07:21
    Jeremiah
    +3
    Do you think the recession began January 20, 2009? Unemployment was rising the day Bush left office, and we were losing jobs at the rate of 750,000 per month. Now we are gaining jobs at the rate of 230,000 per month, and we have been adding jobs for 23 consecutive months. Your little graphic fails to note any of that.

    Funny thing about numbers: you can twist them any way you like. When Obama took office, one of the first things he did was to add the costs of Bush's wars into the budget (Bush had hidden them for his entire time in office). At $12 billion per month for eight years, you can imagine how that impacted the debt. Also, Bush's $1 trillion prescription boondoggle for Big Pharma added a dollar or two, since it was paid for with our credit card. Then there were his tax cuts for the rich, which turned a $127 billion budget surplus into a $750 billion deficit almost overnight. Add them all up and you can see how the debt might grow out of control.

    What exactly is Obama supposed to do about the price of gasoline? Issue more drilling permits? Dozens have been issued and have not been used. Ignore safety precautions on drilling in the Gulf of Mexico? We did that and got the BP spill. Approve the Keystone pipeline? The sand tar-based crude is intended for markets i...
    Do you think the recession began January 20, 2009? Unemployment was rising the day Bush left office, and we were losing jobs at the rate of 750,000 per month. Now we are gaining jobs at the rate of 230,000 per month, and we have been adding jobs for 23 consecutive months. Your little graphic fails to note any of that.

    Funny thing about numbers: you can twist them any way you like. When Obama took office, one of the first things he did was to add the costs of Bush's wars into the budget (Bush had hidden them for his entire time in office). At $12 billion per month for eight years, you can imagine how that impacted the debt. Also, Bush's $1 trillion prescription boondoggle for Big Pharma added a dollar or two, since it was paid for with our credit card. Then there were his tax cuts for the rich, which turned a $127 billion budget surplus into a $750 billion deficit almost overnight. Add them all up and you can see how the debt might grow out of control.

    What exactly is Obama supposed to do about the price of gasoline? Issue more drilling permits? Dozens have been issued and have not been used. Ignore safety precautions on drilling in the Gulf of Mexico? We did that and got the BP spill. Approve the Keystone pipeline? The sand tar-based crude is intended for markets in China, and TransCanada's safety record is not exactly exemplary. With all the de-regulation during the Reagan and Bush years, there just isn't much left that a president can do to affect the prices.
    (more)
  • Michaelene Jeremiah 2012/03/02 19:34:49
    Michaelene
    Ok so you believe that Obama's #'s are closer to reality because he added in the cost of the wars, so why hasn't he also added in the costs of nationalizing car companies, insurance industries and the HUGE albatross around our collective necks, Fannie and Freddie?

    I'm so tired of hearing about the Bush tax cuts. As an accountant I know that the tax cuts also include cuts for all income brackets and if stopped today, everyone would be paying more! Please look it up.

    The Epa and the Dept of Energy have increased the regulations and red tape to purchase oil to refine. It only took a few months for this to get to a crisis stage. Now it has become a consumer, defense and national security concern.
    If you want to see more of my information see the last question I asked last week about the refining industry. It barely touches the tip of this iceberg that will sink our economy so quickly.
    Every one cent increase in the cost of gasoline is a 1.4 billion dollar loss to our economy.
  • Jeremiah Michaelene 2012/03/02 19:48:25
    Jeremiah
    +2
    If you are an accountant, you should know the tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 were strongly weighted in favor of the upper brackets.

    The current spike in gas prices has nothing to do with Iran or supply––which is currently plentiful––and everything to do with Wall Street speculators. With the gutting of Glass-Steagall by Gramm-Leach-Bliley, a president is virtually powerless to prevent such speculation.

    The auto company bailout was a major success. It revived an industry and saved more than a million jobs in the industry and related industries. All three Detroit automakers are selling more cars then ever before, GM is back in the top spot, and the loans are being repaid.

    The insurance companies were bailed out? Aside from AIG, I am not aware of any others.

    Obama has not hidden anything from the budget. Bush's budgets would have shown far greater deficits if the war costs had been added.

    Yes, Obama's numbers are much closer to reality. He has no one like Cheney telling him how to game the system.
  • Michaelene Jeremiah 2012/03/02 20:42:43
    Michaelene
    I'm starting to think that we should revert back to pre 2001 tax code, that would stop the huge amount of EITC, Child tax credit and other fraud being
    perpetrated against the taxpayers. It would also stop the underfunding of the SS and Med systems.

    The auto, AIG (world's largest), and F & F have all been HUGE losses for the American taxpayer and continue to get bailed out every quarter?

    Having several friends in the auto biz, I know all about the waste, fraud and employment debacles which caused them to need to file for bankruptcy.
    Where else can you report to a rubber room and not work while getting paid, getting raises and seniority for a dozen years until your retirement date?

    If he's not gaming then why exclude those 3 industries from the deficit?
    Please don't respond with Bush did it first, because he didn't. It's been going on for a century, selective data manipulation is politics 101.

    The gas price problem is really a refining crisis. It's a global problem but in the US it has reached crisis level in the last few weeks.

    There will be a Congressional hearing led by the Subcomittee for National Security, Counterterrorism and Critical infrastructure on March 19. Tune into to cspan for that one!
  • Jeremiah Michaelene 2012/03/02 20:56:39
    Jeremiah
    +2
    Yes, the auto industry was mismanaged, especially GM. One of the first things the administration did was sack GM's CEO, and they oversaw the company's operation as a representative of the shareholders, us.

    Was it worth saving? Of course. We certainly didn't need a million more unemployed persons. People like Mitt Romney can dither all they want about whether it was a good or bad idea, but meanwhile the jobs were saved. Some were lost, but most were saved. During a time of talking about job creation, it was equally important to preserve as many as possible.

    The AIG bailout was part of TARP, which, as I'm sure you know, was initiated by Bush and Hank Paulson in 2008. It was one of the last bipartisan measures to pass both houses of Congress.

    We disagree on many points, but we are not likely to persuade each other. I will check out that C-SPAN hearing, if I can remain awake long enough. :-)
  • Michaelene Jeremiah 2012/03/02 21:24:06
    Michaelene
    I would agree with you except GM filed for bankruptcy even after the bailout. They also burned their customer base by invalidating the warranties of their vehicles even though the same workers built the vehicles. Ask the 450,000 Impala owners who filed a class action lawsuit against them.

    I don't know about you, but my retirement portfolio was directly affected by these failing nationalized companies. I'm not interested in investing after the stockholders were thrown to the curb.

    Our worthless shares of GM should be on our balance sheets, just in case a miracle occurs and they do rise above the loss limit. Yes?

    I don't know Romney's position on the bailouts or TARP since he is the only candidate that did not vote for either program.

    I know how boring cspan is, but if you want the info from the horse's mouth instead of a pundit's spin, it's the only viable option.
  • Jeremiah Michaelene 2012/03/02 22:01:08
    Jeremiah
    +2
    I often have C-SPAN playing in the background as I go through the day. Yes, it can be tedious, but it can also be informative.

    I didn't say there were no bumps in the road to solvency for the auto companies, particularly GM. The bankruptcy was planned, and the shareholders were unfortunately left holding the bag. But the sum total of the bailout was a successful re-entry into the realm of profitable corporations. Hopefully, another bailout will never be necessary.

    Romney was against the Blunt amendment about an hour before he was for it. He says he opposed the bailout, but who knows what his position was before that, or after it for that matter? It probably cost him Michigan in the general election if he wins the nomination. The guy can give you whiplash.
  • Michaelene Jeremiah 2012/03/02 22:13:42
    Michaelene
    On this we can agree, cspan is informative and hope for no more bailouts.
    We are broke, any company with a balance sheet like our governments would be raided and shut down in a heartbeat.
  • Jeremiah Michaelene 2012/03/02 22:30:47
    Jeremiah
    +3
    Thanks for your input. Have a great weekend.
  • Artist~PWCM~ 2012/02/22 14:10:54
    Artist~PWCM~
    +2
    If you take in all the numbers of unemployed, under-employed and those that have given up the percentage is closer to 16% according to Labor statistics...but of course obama can't report that on an election year. And as to Fox News, if they are delusional why is the White House directing Media Matters to attack them, get dirt on their journalists from private detectives and consult weekly with obama? Just sayn'...
  • Foxy Wa... Artist~... 2012/02/22 20:18:51
    Foxy Warrior Guru
    +5
    And what paranoid conspiracy theory were you spoonfed to make you think the white house is directing them to do anything?
  • Artist~... Foxy Wa... 2012/02/22 20:27:14
    Artist~PWCM~
    +1
    Carl Tucker...he exposed the whole thing a couple of weeks ago.
  • Foxy Wa... Artist~... 2012/02/23 00:52:25
    Foxy Warrior Guru
    +4
    And did he get that information from Elvis or Bigfoot?
  • Artist~... Foxy Wa... 2012/02/23 10:23:12
    Artist~PWCM~
    Apparently from the horse's mouth...
  • Foxy Wa... Artist~... 2012/02/23 18:02:40
    Foxy Warrior Guru
    +2
    Sounds like the other end of the horse to me.
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