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What Do You Think The Motives Are Behind The Billionaire Koch Brothers Secret Meetings?

AARGH! 2011/07/30 18:17:23

SLIDESHOW: What Are The Koch Brothers Motives?

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Agenda Of Billionaire Koch Brothers
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    Agenda Of Billionaire Koch Brothers

What Do You Think The Motives Are Behind The Billionaire Koch Brothers Secret Meetings?
What do you think is the motives are behind the Koch Brothers secret meetings? Are they meeting to try and make America a better place or just the opposite?


Sun Jul 17, 2011 at 03:00 PM PDT


The Koch 'Free Enterprise' Meeting to 'Protect America' -- Conducted in Total Secrecy, of course.

by jamess

For some reason, holding Top Secret Meetings to save our "free market" way of life, kind of bugs me.

It's not just that I don't trust Billionaires -- it just kind of bugs me they want to Buy our Democracy and Public Assets outright (whenever a sympathetic Governor will help them), turning our States' precious Resources, into their part of their own Private-Sector empires.


Public Debt? -- No Problem! Have they got a Deal for you.



Billionaire brothers to host conservative seminar in Vail


Virginia governor among those on Koch brothers' guest list this weekend


Lauren Glendenning, The Vail Daily, Aspen, CO Colorado -- June 24, 2011


A recent study by The Center for Public Integrity, a Washington-based watchdog, found that Koch Industries, the brothers' Kansas-based energy company that is the second largest private company in the United States, has increased its spending on lobbying from $856,000 in 2004 to $20 million in the last two years. The report also shows the company had $100 billion in revenues in 2009.
[...]

“Our goal is really just to expose the work that they do,” Jenny Flanagan said [of Colorado Common Cause].


Nancy Pfotenhauer, spokeswoman for Koch Industries, Inc., issued the following statement to the Vail Daily Thursday:


“This conference brings together some of America's greatest philanthropists and most successful business leaders whose companies have created millions of real jobs. Attendees will discuss solutions to our most pressing issues and strategies to promote policies that will help grow our economy, foster free enterprise and create American jobs.”


"... grow the economy, foster free enterprise and create American jobs" ...


All in total secrecy, with total anonymity, of course. Can't have those pesky reporters snooping around ... now can we?



That wouldn't be polite. Billionaires and their Guests, need their Privacy.



Public Accountability? -- they Don't need no Accountability -- they're Billionaires; They're the "Job Creators" ...


THEY define the Accountability, in Today's America ... move along people.





Billionaires and their honored Guests, need their Privacy.


Perry spoke Sunday at Koch brothers’ gathering near Vail
by Jason Embry, statesman.com Austin -- June 27, 2011


Gov. Rick Perry spoke Sunday at a summit hosted by the billionaire Koch brothers near Vail, Colorado.

Perry spokesman Mark Miner described the Colorado summit as a “private gathering of business leaders” and said it was not related to a possible presidential campaign.
[...]


Miner also said Perry talked about issues related to his role as chairman of the Republican Governors Association.
[...]


The guest list is kept secret, and organizers won’t say where the four-day retreat is being held beyond describing it as in the Vail area.



Oh I see, No need to Make Public, the tactics and strategies to continue the GOP campaign to take over even more States, to break them up, and sell off the pieces to the highest bidders.


-- It's Not like State Governor Campaigns, are of concern to the Public or anything.



Who needs Public Disclosures when they got Front Groups, to bemuse the locals ... as the Bloomberg News, has just recently noticed ...



Koch Brothers Spread Influence Via Blueberry Farmer [in Maine]
by William McQuillen and Jonathan D. Salant -- Bloomberg.com - Jul 15, 2011


[...]
Donations to Americans for Prosperity jumped to $16.6 million in 2009 from $3.5 million in 2007, Internal Revenue Service filings show. Koch Industries’ spending to lobby on federal issues surged 40-fold to $8.1 million last year from $200,000 in 1998, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a Washington-based research group.
[...]

The spending can make a powerful impact,” Ross Baker, a political science professor at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, New Jersey, said in an interview. “There is a bottom-up effect. You only have to see what is happening in Ohio and Wisconsin.”


Walker, Kasich



The group’s support for Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker and Ohio Governor John Kasich helped the two Republicans win legislation restricting public employee unions. In Wisconsin, Americans for Prosperity organized rallies, set up a pro-Walker website and announced an ad campaign costing more than $300,000 to support him.


Firing Public Workers, Breaking up Unions, running False Ads ad nauseum, to get your Governor-picks elected ... Well, that's Priceless!


I can see why the Kochs might want to keep all THAT Secret.


Shoot, if you make too much fuss folks, they might Shut Down your entire State Government -- if you ask them too many questions ...


We can't have that -- They are the "Job Creators"



Common Cause to protest conservative Koch brothers confab Sunday in Avon
by David O. Williams, Real Vail – June 24, 2011


Colorado Common Cause today issued a release saying it will join with labor organizations and other progressive groups to “protest against oil/corporate billionaires Charles and David Koch’s efforts to control the nation’s future by spending hundreds of millions of dollars in secret money” on campaign ads.


Sunlight is the best disinfectant.


No one is above the Law.



Money is Power.


Money is also Speech.



... and Corporate Speech is paramount -- the flow of which must not be interrupted, especially when that Speech is occurring behind closed doors, from Billionaire slush funds fire hydrants.



Go figure. Funny system we got here ... where Lies are speech too. The People deserve to be Mis-informed, by unknown, unnamed Benefactors. That's the American {Corporate} Way!



Pretty soon Corporate Titans will be holding Secret Meetings, to discuss the Threats facing their America. Only Republican Power Players invited. You understand America, the "Little People" need not worry, this is how Business gets done ... you know -- 'Pink Slip' anyone?



Billionaire brothers to host conservative seminar in Vail
Lauren Glendenning, The Vail Daily, Aspen, CO Colorado -- June 24, 2011



Money and influence



In a September 2010 letter to supporters, Charles Koch describes the annual meetings as a way to review strategies

for combating the multitude of public policies that threaten to destroy America as we know it.”

“Our goal for these meetings must be to advance ideas that strengthen that freedom, beat back the unrelenting attacks and hold elected leaders accountable,” Charles Koch wrote.


The meetings, “Understanding and Addressing Threats to American Free Enterprise and Prosperity,” are invitation-only. While members of the media are not among those invited, millionaire, right-wing donors are.


Flanagan [of Colorado Common Cause] said the seminars are so important because it's when the brothers and their donors decide how to spend their money.


“We're talking about millions of dollars that are used to influence public policy,” Flanagan said. “This is the meeting where they come together and figure out where they're going to spend this money.”


Flanagan said money has been spent on everything from rolling back environmental protections to attacking social security.


The biggest concern we have is that the money will be spent in secret,” Flanagan said.



Afterall if they Told Us -- WHAT they were up to -- just where their Millions in Free-Secret-Speech were going -- We might actually be able to Do Something to Stop them.



Now that wouldn't be prudent, now would it?


That could make us, the Public, a part of their Problem.



What's this a rare ray of Sunlight? Are their Campaign Coffers about to be filled?



LittleSis.org



Koch Network Participants, Vail 2011



Name About


Kenneth T Cuccinelli II Attorney General, Commonwealth of Virginia


David Koch Richest man in New York


Charles G. Koch Libertarian billionaire scion of the Koch empire.


Fred Malek Republican Operative, Business luminary


Robert F McDonnell Governor of Virginia


Rick Perry Governor of Texas


Rick Scott Republican Governor of Florida



Us, "Little People" -- need not apply ... and Need not know.



Free-Enterprise 'protectin' is only for Billionaires, and their chosen Representatives -- silly peasants. Just be happy you still have cake.


Privatization is a "Good thing" {for them} -- just Trust them!







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  • Queen B 2011/07/31 14:24:04
    Queen B
    To see how much more power they can grab with the help of their friends in Congress, the Supreme Court, and the clueless baggers who presumably, unknowingly spread their message to the rest of the clueless masses. The corporatocracy's goal is to make the policies and the Congress is paid by them to put them into effect.
  • aneed2know 2011/07/31 05:37:12
    aneed2know
    To set up bribe funds that cannot be traced back to them or their cronnies?
  • Tinka123 2011/07/30 21:04:34 (edited)
    Tinka123
    +1
    They're Libertarians - the motivation is obviously Capitalism. What's wrong with that?

    Big Labor has no problem INVESTING millions of their dollars in Koch Corporate Bonds - if the left dislikes them so - why are they INVESTING in their bonds?

    http://www.nationalreview.com...

    If only lib/progs would invest half as much time investigating the people funding their platform like: General Electric, who paid -61.3% in taxes from 2008 - 2010 http://www.forbes.com/2010/04... and George Soros, a billionaire hedge-fund manager that laughingly admits his first Billion was made of the backs of others misfortunes when he deliberately tanked the Bank of England http://www.zerohedge.com/news...

    Alas, the left's more concerned with people that actually produce something which others CHOOSE to buy.

    The Koch's didn't make their money by manipulating (and in some cases collapsing) currencies or the economies of ENTIRE NATION'S, like George Soros. The Koch's support eliminating subsidies for ALL COMPANIES (including Big Oil) and support ending ALL TAX LOOPHOLES, unlike General Electric. Yet the left rally behind Obama's appointing a G.E. CEO as his jobs czar - who is now creating jobs in CHINA.
    http://www.examiner.com/conse...

    They've no problem with George Soros making his money at the expense of ot...

    They're Libertarians - the motivation is obviously Capitalism. What's wrong with that?

    Big Labor has no problem INVESTING millions of their dollars in Koch Corporate Bonds - if the left dislikes them so - why are they INVESTING in their bonds?

    http://www.nationalreview.com...

    If only lib/progs would invest half as much time investigating the people funding their platform like: General Electric, who paid -61.3% in taxes from 2008 - 2010 http://www.forbes.com/2010/04... and George Soros, a billionaire hedge-fund manager that laughingly admits his first Billion was made of the backs of others misfortunes when he deliberately tanked the Bank of England http://www.zerohedge.com/news...

    Alas, the left's more concerned with people that actually produce something which others CHOOSE to buy.

    The Koch's didn't make their money by manipulating (and in some cases collapsing) currencies or the economies of ENTIRE NATION'S, like George Soros. The Koch's support eliminating subsidies for ALL COMPANIES (including Big Oil) and support ending ALL TAX LOOPHOLES, unlike General Electric. Yet the left rally behind Obama's appointing a G.E. CEO as his jobs czar - who is now creating jobs in CHINA.
    http://www.examiner.com/conse...

    They've no problem with George Soros making his money at the expense of other people loosing their entire life's savings.

    If you dislike the Koch's don't do business with them. How many people, who lost money in Soros currency manipulation schemes, do you think CHOSE to do business with Soros? And how many people CHOOSE to do business with the Koch's? There's your answer right there.
    (more)
  • JCD aka... Tinka123 2011/07/30 22:27:39
    JCD aka "biz"
    +3
    The Koch brothers want to control America. They lost in California, they will lose in America.
  • Tinka123 JCD aka... 2011/07/31 19:17:32
    Tinka123
    Progressives want to control America too - lots of people do. That doesn't mean they will.
  • Rebel Yell 2011/07/30 20:23:53
    Rebel Yell
    +4
    The Koch Bros.have two immediate goals. The first is to destroy the unions. We saw what happened at soon as the 4 new Republican governors took office. We all remember Scott Walker turning Wisconsin upside down. They also want to get rid of the EPA. That way their industries can pollute our waters and air with no threat of fines. Beyond that, they want to get rid of the minimum wage. Have American workers work at $5. 00 per hour and with no health care benefits. Rick Perry is thinking of jumping in the Presidential race. In no time, he was called to a Koch Bros meeting.

    The Koch Bros have found , at last, the perfect vehicle to control America... the Tea Party will gridlock all legislation that benefits this country. The plan is in motion now.
  • aneed2know Rebel Yell 2011/07/31 05:38:34
    aneed2know
    +1
    exactly, now the answer is are peopel goingt o wake up in time to stop them.
  • #Justice4Trayvon 629 BLOCKT... 2011/07/30 20:04:22
    #Justice4Trayvon 629 BLOCKT CONS
    +6
    It's a "war council" to plot strategy on how to make war against the American people's health (via pollution), further their propaganda (via FOX Noise & conservative talk radio) & kill green energy initiatives (via Congress) so THEY can prosper & nobody else.
  • AARGH! #Justic... 2011/07/30 20:06:10
  • CMac 2011/07/30 19:53:25
    CMac
    +3
    They are always up to no good.
  • Juanb 2011/07/30 19:18:54
    Juanb
    +6
    Nothing but Snake oil Salesmen......THESE ARE THE EXACT PEOPLE WHO ARE PAYING PEOPLE TO TELL IDIOTS THAT GLOBAL WARMING DOESN'T EXIST AND ISN'T A THREAT, if the devil exists they have a nice room waiting for them in hell, they have so many idiots convinced.
    whats ironic is that with all the money they have you would think they would retire or do something productive.But at the end sadly it doesn't pay to be stupid in humanity because there are more opportunists than good samaritans they are hell bent on perhaps ''accidentally'' if you want to believe destroying humanity.and they have so many idiots convinced humanity opportunists samaritans bent accidentally destroying humanity idiots convinced
  • #Justic... Juanb 2011/07/30 20:18:02
    #Justice4Trayvon 629 BLOCKT CONS
    +3
    JuanB, it ain't a nice little room & I can almost see with my minds-eye them sliding into hell with gasoline soaked draws one!!!
  • Sandy 2011/07/30 19:14:55
    Sandy
    +5
    It's a way to multiply avarice, the corporate idol. Corporations buy politicians, politicians in turn use their power to influence policies that benefit the corporations, and the cycle repeats itself until democracy is shattered. It is like giving the finger to anything that stands in their way-the average citizen, American values, the common good, the health of the people on the planet and even the planet itself. As we numbly look on; time to wake up and stop the takeover of "we the people".
  • Tea in the Harbor 2011/07/30 19:12:46
    Tea in the Harbor
    +5
    Their goal is establishing the People's Republic of America, or the United States of China. They might even let us pick the name!
    http://www.sodahead.com/unite...
  • wildcat 2011/07/30 19:00:35
    wildcat
    +6
    They are crooks and need to be reigned in.
  • #Justic... wildcat 2011/07/30 20:20:50
    #Justice4Trayvon 629 BLOCKT CONS
    +4
    Maybe WE THE PEOPLE can hire Black Water to abscond them TRAITRIOTS to a black ops site in some foreign country. I think Somalia would be a good place.
  • wildcat #Justic... 2011/07/30 21:56:34
    wildcat
    +3
    sh I could rave you 100 times sh rave 100 times the fonz
  • JCD aka... wildcat 2011/07/30 22:28:50
    JCD aka "biz"
    +3
    "They are crooks, and need to be reined in", correct.
  • Grabitz 2011/07/30 18:58:19
    Grabitz
    +2
    Don't know . They do come from a long line of communist and i think they are first generation Americans . You guess is as good as mine .
  • Caroline - fan of Audubon 2011/07/30 18:57:44
    Caroline - fan of Audubon
    +7
    To increase their wealth and power. Interesting that billionaires as Warren Buffett and Bill Gates give millions away in charities, but the Kochs do not.
  • ☆stillthe12c☆ 2011/07/30 18:56:08
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    +1
    When they built the refineries in the L.A. Long Beach area here in Calif. There where very few homes around them. People bought homes there to be close to work. The oil companies have done many things to cleanup the air around them. But there comes a time when you have diminishing returns on what you can do. Are they over regulated. The answer is maybe.. To complain about the dangers to the people that endanger there health by living close to them is like the people who sue about the noise levels of the airport that was there when they bought their homes. It is called poor planning. You don’t allow the homes to be built. There has been refineries shutdown do to the fact they could not meet EPA standards and then we complain about how much Gas cost while we refuse to drill for oil and natural gas. We have a government that give 2 billion Dollars to Brazil that we could not afford to drill in the Gulf when we will not drill there are selves at the rate that we should. Instead of pushing for vehicles that run on natural which we have an abundance of we push for vehicles that the poor can not afford. I am tired of listening to these green nuts that have theirs heads where a head does not belong. Now that they have pushed and gotten what they want with use food to ma...
    When they built the refineries in the L.A. Long Beach area here in Calif. There where very few homes around them. People bought homes there to be close to work. The oil companies have done many things to cleanup the air around them. But there comes a time when you have diminishing returns on what you can do. Are they over regulated. The answer is maybe.. To complain about the dangers to the people that endanger there health by living close to them is like the people who sue about the noise levels of the airport that was there when they bought their homes. It is called poor planning. You don’t allow the homes to be built. There has been refineries shutdown do to the fact they could not meet EPA standards and then we complain about how much Gas cost while we refuse to drill for oil and natural gas. We have a government that give 2 billion Dollars to Brazil that we could not afford to drill in the Gulf when we will not drill there are selves at the rate that we should. Instead of pushing for vehicles that run on natural which we have an abundance of we push for vehicles that the poor can not afford. I am tired of listening to these green nuts that have theirs heads where a head does not belong. Now that they have pushed and gotten what they want with use food to make fuel they have decided that was a mistake. Well most of us new that before it got started. We have made food more expensive and people are now starving around the world because they can not afford to eat. I could go on, but I am sure I have offended enough of the wacho already.
    (more)
  • Grabitz ☆stillt... 2011/07/30 19:25:52
    Grabitz
    +2
    Yeah i agree with most of you post all but drilling here because it ends up on the free market anyay and we still pay out our ass for it .
  • ☆stillt... Grabitz 2011/07/30 20:13:39
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    Here is why we need to drill. We have a choice to use Companies that are American. That keeps the dollars here. When we buy from other Countries this adds to our National debt. So by doing this we can collect taxes on these dollars and pay down debt. What everybody needs to understand that our debt is occurring for 2 reasons. One we buy more from other countries than we sale. A lot of what we buy is from Companies that are American but are located out side this nation. Those dollars are not taxed because in the 70’s we passed a bill that stated that we would not taxes profits on corporations on profits that were made in a foreign County. Then we started actually giving them tax incentive to move to other Counties and we raised taxes on the ones that did not locate to another country. We have the 2nd highest taxes on manufacturing in the world. All these things need to be reversed. By the way this was done by both parties, Democrats and Republicans. I have Voted for Democrats, Independents and Republicans trying to counter these stupid things that we do. So I am happy to see a 4th party. I am hoping that the Tea Party will continue and make a difference.
  • Grabitz ☆stillt... 2011/07/30 21:44:30
    Grabitz
    Thanks for getting back to me . So far your the only tea member that makes any sense what so ever to me simple logic . I do have a problem with the tea party i feel they are trying to set an example using the middle class to do it and i am not at all thrilled with senators of the party because they are doing nothing that i can see to reverse all that you said needs to be revers that i agree with you on .
  • ☆stillt... Grabitz 2011/07/30 21:58:15
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    Things are done in little bites at a time. They have forced us to do somethings. So they have done part of the job. There may be mistakes made a ;long the way. But mistakes of the other parties is why we are in the shape that we are in now. I just hope that we can recover from where we are now.
  • Grabitz ☆stillt... 2011/07/30 22:15:29
    Grabitz
    I can understand that . Kind of like feeling your way through . I get aggravated with over half the tea members on here . There is no talking to them . Say one wrong word they don't like or asking and the next thing you know they are going off on you calling you this and that . Then all a sudden you have 2 or 3 ganging up on you . . Does this go on at the rallies ? Kind of makes me feel if i went to ones of the rallies i would need to be packing my 45 .

    I don't mind debating but to be told what to do and say i just cant do that . I just wish the tea party had more organization a plan that all could work on at one time . Just way to many totally different ideas going around and most are having a hard time trying to figure out what the main goal or objective is .
  • ☆stillt... Grabitz 2011/07/30 22:54:08
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    +1
    Are you sure this is Tea party people. The only ones that I have a problem with is the far left. Look at it this way, if they are getting angry it is because they do not have the answer to your question. If you were to go to a tea party meeting I think that you will find them to be very tolerant and they do not put up with people that try to bully others. The majority of them are able to defend their point of view without getting angry about it. You do not see them doing the things like you see in Wisconsin by the left. There are certain elements that attend that try to disrupt their meeting. The news organization have had a hard time to show unruly people at their meetings. So the left has sent organizer in to try to bring disruption to there meetings. I am registered Republican, but I vote for the person that I think will do the better Job.
  • aneed2know ☆stillt... 2011/07/31 05:53:00
    aneed2know
    +1
    There is no reason to drill here, gas prices will not come down because the oil goes on the open market, and will comepete for it, there is no rule in place that says a certain amount of oil must be sent here not one rule. It goes to the highest bidder. Now i fully recognize that will be using oil maybe for another 20 years ( and in those years oil will continue to climb higher in cost), but what do we do when 1.6 billion Chinese start to drive in mass, or 1.2 billion Indians, do you think there is enough oil in the ground to stop prices from going up. No its better that we start the transition now while we dont have too, because if we wait till we have too its going to be tragic.
  • ☆stillt... aneed2know 2011/07/31 06:36:47
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    What you are saying is partial true. There are companies here in the US that do use the oil that they drill for their own refineries and sell the excess to other Companies. Even if they use the oil they charge the going rate for it to the refinery. But the money from the sale of the oil even to themselves goes to the company here and they pay taxes on it. So the dollars remain here and creates jobs here. We give permits to all kinds of oil companies from all over the world. But we do not have to do that. We can give those permits to US based Companies. As terms of the permits we can stipulate that the oil be used here. This can be terms of the permit. Even if we do not use the oil here the profits remain here and they pay taxes on the sale. So it is income to the Government and we are not buying less foreign oil. Here in California the oil goes into the same pipeline as all the other companies goes into and then the amount that they put in the pipe is taken out by their refinery to make oil products and the excess goes on the open market at the going rate. Some of the oil may very well go to India or China.. They do not get enough oil from the wells here to even satisfy California need so not much is sold on the open market. The idea is that our dollar remain here. This why we need to drill here.
  • aneed2know ☆stillt... 2011/07/31 07:06:27
    aneed2know
    +1
    There is no law that stipulates that it must andif one politician introduced a law like that he/she will be labeld a socialist, or communist you know it i know it. Second to continue drilling ignores the problem that is closely gaining on us, and that problem is peak oil ( yeah i know you may not believe in it but it is true), and teh second problem is greed, do you honestly think any oil company is going to ignore those billions of dollars they could get from China or India? The sad truth is our politicians are bought and sold just like oil is and no one is immune to it. You want fair legislation take money out of politics and not just corporate money but all money. Until this happens the American people will always be screwed.
  • ☆stillt... aneed2know 2011/07/31 17:37:28
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    I not sure if you are understanding me. They would sale the oil or a portion of the oil to there own refineries here in the U.S. to meet their needs, but even if they sale it on the world market it is still revenue here and reduces the amount of imports from other nations or increases taxable revenues. The oil companies are naturally gone to take care of there own needs here first. It would be silly to sale there oil on the open market and then purchase oil from the world market for their refineries. At any rate if we are putting more oil in the market it will reduce the price of oil here and if OPEC reduces there rate of production we could increase ours or take the extra profits here which adds to our GDP. At this time it is difficult to do this. I can tell you that we have lots of wells that are capped and able to produce oil just not at the rate that the oil companies want. Just like the oil well that leak millions of barrel of oil in the gulf when they were attempting to shut it down.
  • JCD aka... ☆stillt... 2011/07/30 22:33:40
    JCD aka "biz"
    +1
    America LENT 2 billion to Brazil, it did NOT give the 2 billion! I wish my bank would GIVE me the money when I borrow from them.
  • ☆stillt... JCD aka... 2011/07/30 23:10:22
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    And they will pay us back with our money!! It started off to drill for oil off their coast then we slipped in a it is ok to drill in Gulf. Guess who is trying to sneak in the back door. They are talking to China for an oil deal!
  • Grabitz ☆stillt... 2011/07/30 23:28:04
    Grabitz
    Yeah China is screwing us left and right . I don't see why we keep dealing with them . I know we owe them tuns of cash but as long as they get their payment who cares .
  • ☆stillt... Grabitz 2011/07/30 23:48:30
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    +1
    I do, because it is our stolen secret and out money that is building their military. They are not our friends and they used the debt that we owe them to get us to back down on Taiwan. They threaten us with calling in their debt. You don’t hear that on the News.
  • Jareth Majere 2011/07/30 18:34:29
  • Pete 2011/07/30 18:33:11
    Pete
    +3
    They trying to figure out how to make a trillion dollars in one years....Peace be with you
  • BHGOzzy 2011/07/30 18:23:57
    BHGOzzy
    +3
    They're planning out their next WoW raid party.

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