TSA Made Elderly Woman Remove Adult Diaper: OK or Over the Top?
SodaHead News
2011/06/26 22:27:47
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We know they're there to protect us, but sometimes the TSA just seems downright mean.
Was this action really necessary for security purposes? Or was this over the top?
Taking disabled people's toys, exposing women's breasts, making women remove their prosthetic breasts: seems TSA agents never stop figuring out new ways to be sadistic.
Now comes word that some agents made a wheelchair-bound, 95-year-old woman with final-stage leukemia take off her adult diaper for pat-down purposes.
Jean Weber, the daughter of the 95-year-old woman in question,...said security personnel...told her they would need for her mother to remove her Depends diaper because it was soiled and was impeding their search.
Weber wheeled her mother into a bathroom, removed her diaper and returned. Her mother did not have another clean diaper with her.
Was this action really necessary for security purposes? Or was this over the top?
Read More: http://gawker.com/5815608/tsa-agents-now-harassing...
There is just so much wrong with what happened here.Just WHAT is the threat level with a wheelchair-bound, 95-year-old woman with final-stage leukemia who has to wear a soiled adult diaper?
Dumbasses.
Yes, the problem is TOTALLY being searched, and not at all HOW it is done.
/s
what is wrong with this picture
No one except Muslims have tried to blow up airplanes!
Profiling a few Muslims will save the rest of the American public from this disgusting behavior!
Time for all Americans to stop this insanity!
It's an unwarranted search without probable cause or suspicious activity.
As for what we complain about, you apparently are not to seriously worried about the erosion of your liberties that this type of action demonstrates. We are not robots, we are not slaves and we sure don't intend to be prisoners of our governments stupidest dictates. When government is attempting to be our master instead of our servant; you bet we complain. When we complain it is as a warning of the dangers ahead if behavior like this is not corrected.
2) Ever sat next to a person who dumped a load and didn't have a diaper? She had no spares.
3) Specific incident may not have directly violated her rights; a court would have to decide. None the less the action fits a pattern of abuse of authority which is a violation of a citizens rights.
4) Except in, I believe the number is, 22 airports, TSA agents are employees of the Federal government.
5) If I were to carry your protect public safety argument to its end then TSA employees should not only have dirty diapers removed, but should screen passengers for drugs and alcohol, test for contagious diseases and make psychiatric evaluations before allowing a passenger on a plane. Don't you agree?
They made her daughter go through the security line twice, since they sent her to a rest room out of a secure area!
Your ridiculous quote:
" Not a God damned thing to do with losing any rights."
The Constitution guarantees the right against unwarranted searches and seizures!
You give up that right every time a TSA agent gropes you!
and the women and children who blow themselves up in Iraq?
It's the very ridiculousness of the whole notion that makes it
so effective against those of us who live in the civilized world.
Do you think the bad guys haven't considered using Westerners
to carry out their missions? Do you suppose they're too ethical
to coerce or recruit someone who won't raise suspicion?
Maybe you think that, out of 300,000,000 typical-looking citizens
in this country, not a single one of them would be willing to smuggle
something ugly onto a flight?
No... it's best to check *everybody* if you're going to check *anybody.*
Otherwise, you're wasting time at best, and inviting catastrophe at worst.
1) Most Westerners are not religious zealots.
2) While not all of the people who would do us harm are from a background of extreme poverty, a large number of them are. Americans on the other hand live comfortable lives with small areas of real poverty. How much money do you think it would take to bribe the average American into killing themselves and numbers of others.
3) American terrorists prefer to live to see the damage they cause.
There are probably other factors (like patriotism) that would preclude most Westerner from even considering such an action.
As for checking everybody, that is sheer nonsense. Israel does not check everybody, just those that fit a given profile and therefore are more likely to be suspect. Their system works. It is the only system we need in this country, but we are too politically correct to even consider it.
As an aside, can you tell me exactly what has been found on people in all these years of searches that seriously threatened air safety?
It's been proven, even with the current security measures that people can get knives, explosives and even guns on a plane. For crying out load just recently a guy was able to sneak onto a plane without even a ticket. and he did it twice. So how safe are we really.
And what about baggage handlers and other airport personnel? Are they searched like that all the time. No they are not.
Frankly I'll take my chances. I know that everyone will probably disagree with me and that's OK. Run scared and give your personal freedoms and liberties away and guess what. You'll still die when you are supposed to. Not one minute sooner or later.
"Give me liberty or give me death".
If the Government wants to continue this facade then at the very least "profile". The Israelis do it and are quite successful I might add. The police don't have as much authority as a TSA agent... at least not yet. We'll see.
in this thread. The conspiracy theories and bumper sticker maxims don't speak
well of our collective survival instinct.
Glad they're taking charge of it, however clunky it may be. If we were seeing
hijackings and bombings, it would be different. But we're not, so... there we
have it.
I know the analogy is dumb but let's think about this logically. If a terrorist really wanted to do some more damage why not set off a bomb in the middle of a crowded football or basketball venue, or Grand Central Station or even Disneyland.
Then who will we start to search? Where does it end? I don't want the Government to take charge of everything. First they start off with something trivial and then that becomes very important so the control increases. Almost everything that happens to us in life starts out as a small issue before it becomes a major issue. In this instance I'm talking about the loss of my freedoms and liberties under the guise of protecting me. When do they put me in a government controlled community with fences and guards and then say that they are doing this for my own good?
If your happy that they are screening this way then let's see how you feel if someday your 6 year old daughter is molested by a TSA agent (no matter how well intentioned). Or your 95 year old Grandmother is literally strip searched. What if you we...
I know the analogy is dumb but let's think about this logically. If a terrorist really wanted to do some more damage why not set off a bomb in the middle of a crowded football or basketball venue, or Grand Central Station or even Disneyland.
Then who will we start to search? Where does it end? I don't want the Government to take charge of everything. First they start off with something trivial and then that becomes very important so the control increases. Almost everything that happens to us in life starts out as a small issue before it becomes a major issue. In this instance I'm talking about the loss of my freedoms and liberties under the guise of protecting me. When do they put me in a government controlled community with fences and guards and then say that they are doing this for my own good?
If your happy that they are screening this way then let's see how you feel if someday your 6 year old daughter is molested by a TSA agent (no matter how well intentioned). Or your 95 year old Grandmother is literally strip searched. What if you were forced to be strip and cavity searched? I don't like it.
Anyone with enough money can buy a plane and get a pilots license and do a lot of damage. How does strip searching a 95 year old woman prevent anything? Goodness gracious. Stop reacting out of fear.
believe that these particular "dragons" exist?
Yeah, that government... agreed. It's a slippery slope, but there has to
be balance-- a measured response, proportionate to a given threat. So
far, it's working. Why back out now? Only about 4% of all passengers
are deemed worthy of a pat-down, anyway. All the hysteria about rape
and molestation is being exacerbated by a small minority of people who
are given to such bouts of drama in the first place.
Like the people who act out when they're not allowed to de-plane for a
few hours, they only do so because there's precedent. The papers are
reporting these things, so they think it's 'what people do.'
I don't know what your definition of 'molestation' is, but I strongly suspect
it appears in the apocryphal emails ("send this to *everyone* you know!!!")
that make the rounds.
I'm not even sure about your ideas on the subject of 'prevention.' We're
not seeing the hijackings and bombings that they do elsewhere, and we
happen to be the grand prize in the global terror game. Do you honestly
believe our enemies would hesitate to use a child or an elderly woman to
achieve their aims? Given their typical means of operating, doesn't this
in fact seem more likely than not?
It may seem to ...
believe that these particular "dragons" exist?
Yeah, that government... agreed. It's a slippery slope, but there has to
be balance-- a measured response, proportionate to a given threat. So
far, it's working. Why back out now? Only about 4% of all passengers
are deemed worthy of a pat-down, anyway. All the hysteria about rape
and molestation is being exacerbated by a small minority of people who
are given to such bouts of drama in the first place.
Like the people who act out when they're not allowed to de-plane for a
few hours, they only do so because there's precedent. The papers are
reporting these things, so they think it's 'what people do.'
I don't know what your definition of 'molestation' is, but I strongly suspect
it appears in the apocryphal emails ("send this to *everyone* you know!!!")
that make the rounds.
I'm not even sure about your ideas on the subject of 'prevention.' We're
not seeing the hijackings and bombings that they do elsewhere, and we
happen to be the grand prize in the global terror game. Do you honestly
believe our enemies would hesitate to use a child or an elderly woman to
achieve their aims? Given their typical means of operating, doesn't this
in fact seem more likely than not?
It may seem to be "fear" to you, which is fair, as this *is* all about terror...
but it's only sensible to adopt policies which address likely avenues of
attack. We can deal with the inevitable over-reaction factor later, as our
picture of Reality changes.
One question that I would ask you is how many hijackings and airplane bombings have you heard of elsewhere? And I don't believe for a moment that a terrorist wouldn't use a child or an elderly woman. Of course they would. Contrary to your belief that it is more likely than not, I believe that it is very very unlikely perhaps not even likely at all.
By the way "I" never said anything about rape. My definition of molestation in this case is when an adult puts there hands anywhere on a child that is uncomfortable for that child and against the wishes of that child's parents.
Even with your desire for increased security at airports there is no proof that that would stop a determined terrorist. And what about all of the other venues in this country that could be targeted by terrorists? When people can still get on planes with knives, guns and explosives (which they periodically do), there is no true safety. When people can sneak through security and board a plane without a ticket (happened twice by the same person), there is no true safety.
I'm not saying that there should be no security. I'm saying when is enough enough. And do we determine that by your needs or mine? This is a difficult subject. My concern is too much Government interference and control. My ot...
One question that I would ask you is how many hijackings and airplane bombings have you heard of elsewhere? And I don't believe for a moment that a terrorist wouldn't use a child or an elderly woman. Of course they would. Contrary to your belief that it is more likely than not, I believe that it is very very unlikely perhaps not even likely at all.
By the way "I" never said anything about rape. My definition of molestation in this case is when an adult puts there hands anywhere on a child that is uncomfortable for that child and against the wishes of that child's parents.
Even with your desire for increased security at airports there is no proof that that would stop a determined terrorist. And what about all of the other venues in this country that could be targeted by terrorists? When people can still get on planes with knives, guns and explosives (which they periodically do), there is no true safety. When people can sneak through security and board a plane without a ticket (happened twice by the same person), there is no true safety.
I'm not saying that there should be no security. I'm saying when is enough enough. And do we determine that by your needs or mine? This is a difficult subject. My concern is too much Government interference and control. My other concern is not enough Government interference and control. Go figure.
I don't need anyone's protection while I'm in this country. And frankly no one can protect me from harm. There are thousands of ways that harm could strike me without warning.
Being directly opposed to the apparent majority opinion in these threads,
I've been called a jackbooted nazi thug *and* a cowering Liberal Obama supporter... sometimes in successive posts. FWIW, I'm neither. :O)
IAC, I appreciate your concerns over unnecessary humiliation, the insidious growth of government control and widespread incompetence. Until we can get a reliable handle on intelligence gathering/sharing, I'm afraid we may be stuck with a lot of pro-active 'donkey work' on the ground.
Yes, there are plenty of other potential avenues of terror, but we're only able to address the likeliest of the lot and hope that the various Homeland Security dept's will keep their eyes peeled and work out which scenarios are worth the bulk of their attention (and budget).
In my mind, I liken the whole 'war on terror' to the fight against disease. Lots of people die with cancer every year, certainly... but this doesn't negate the value of the research that's being done, or the prevention measures we take, or the effort to cure existing cases. There's always something that comes ...
Being directly opposed to the apparent majority opinion in these threads,
I've been called a jackbooted nazi thug *and* a cowering Liberal Obama supporter... sometimes in successive posts. FWIW, I'm neither. :O)
IAC, I appreciate your concerns over unnecessary humiliation, the insidious growth of government control and widespread incompetence. Until we can get a reliable handle on intelligence gathering/sharing, I'm afraid we may be stuck with a lot of pro-active 'donkey work' on the ground.
Yes, there are plenty of other potential avenues of terror, but we're only able to address the likeliest of the lot and hope that the various Homeland Security dept's will keep their eyes peeled and work out which scenarios are worth the bulk of their attention (and budget).
In my mind, I liken the whole 'war on terror' to the fight against disease. Lots of people die with cancer every year, certainly... but this doesn't negate the value of the research that's being done, or the prevention measures we take, or the effort to cure existing cases. There's always something that comes out of the blue, as you point out. Nothing is 100% sure or safe, nor should it be.
Still and all, I think the number of incidents that actually arise suggests to me that many, many more have been nipped in the bud at some point.
Here's a list (from the Wikipedia) of hijackings in the past decade:
-------quoted from Wikipedia, details removed for brevity-------
2000: Ariana Afghan Airlines Boeing 727 is hijacked.
2000: Philippine Airlines Flight 812 was hijacked.
2000, August 18: a VASP Boeing 737-2A1 registration PP-SMG en route from Foz do Iguaçu to Curitiba-Afonso Pena was hijacked.
2000, October 14: Saudi Arabian Airlines Flight 115, flying from Jeddah to London was hijacked.
2000, 11 November: an Vnukovo Airlines Tu-154 flying from Makhachkala to Moscow was hijacked.
2001, 15 March: another Vnukovo Airlines Tu-154 flying from Istanbul to Moscow was hijacked.
2001: American Airlines flight 11 , United Airlines Flight 175 , American Airlines Flight 77 , United Airlines Flight 93, were hijacked.
2006: Turkish Airlines Flight 1476, flying from Tirana to Istanbul, was hijacked.
2007: an Air West Boeing 737 was hijacked over Sudan, but landed safely at N'Djamena, Chad.
2007: an Air Mauritanie Boeing 737 flying from Nouakchott to Las Palmas with 87 passengers on board was hijacked.
2007: an Atlasjet MD-80 en route from Nicosia to Istanbul was hijacked.
2008: a Sun Air Boeing 737 flying from Nyala, Darfur, in Western Sudan to the Sudanese capital, Khartoum, was hijacked.
2009: CanJet Flight 918, a Boeing 737-800 preparing to depart from the Sangster International Airport in Montego Bay, Jamaica to Canada was hijacked.
2009: AeroMéxico Flight 576, a Boeing 737-800 flying from Cancún to Mexico City was hijacked.
2011: Turkish Airlines Flight 1754, flying from Oslo to Istanbul, was in Bulgarian airspace when, allegedly, an unsuccessful attempt was made to hijack it.
-----------------------------...
I don't know how complete or accurate the above list is... it's a wiki thing. Still, these events may be viewed either as alarming or reassuring, depending on one's expectations.
I see a reason for concern... but also a reason to believe that the measures we're taking, such as they are, have been working.
To the 'molestation' concerns, I'd point out that doctors and nurses are often far more intimate in their handling of women and children... that, while TSA screeners aren't "professional" in the same way a doctor is, they're doing the job they've been trained to do. The well-being of all of us on the ground as well as in the air is potentially at stake. On balance, I think it's worth the temporary abandonment of modesty.
My reference to 'rape' btw, had to do with a particularly ugly discussion I had in another such thread-- some girl who'd actually *been* raped was saying that the body scanner made her re-live the suffering, etc. of the assault. It's a bad thing, and I feel bad for her... but not bad enough to advocate sending her through without being screened. Lots of fireworks in that thread, I'll tell ya. ,':O\