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'Transgender marriage' up next?

~ The Rebel ~ 2012/07/26 01:20:28
A crucial case on marriage and family set to be heard by the European Court of Human Rights offers the increasingly controversial institution a chance to undo an error committed a decade ago and stop what Malta’s high court called “social engineering,” according to the European Center for Law and Justice.

Experts say even the U.S., embroiled in its own battle over same-sex marriage, could be affected by the ruling.

The case, Joanne Cassar vs. Malta, centers on a “transgender” person – a man who underwent surgery in 2005 to resemble a woman – seeking government recognition and sanction of a “marriage” to another man.

Following appeals, the deeply Catholic island nation in the Mediterranean Sea eventually refused to grant the plaintiff permission to marry a male partner.

For Cassar, however, the decision was unacceptable. Last summer, Cassar sued the government of Malta with the ECHR, claiming that a “right to marriage” outlined in the European Convention on Human Rights had been violated.

The European rights court in Strasbourg, which ruled in the landmark 2002 Goodwin vs. United Kingdom judgment that marriage could not be based on biological sex, eventually agreed to hear the case. The outcome, however, is far from certain.

Malta’s constitutional court clearly acknowledged the decade-old marriage ruling by the ECHR, which stated that the European court was “not persuaded that at the date of this case it can still be assumed that these terms [man and woman] must refer to a determination of gender by purely biological criteria.”

However, Malta’s high court refused to apply the ECHR ruling in the Cassar case, arguing that the nation was not bound by the European decision, because the ruling was “social engineering” based on dubious notions of evolving societal norms, not law.

Read More: http://www.wnd.com/2012/07/transgender-marriage-up...

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Opinions

  • Alexander T Steward 2013/02/03 21:48:59
    Alexander T Steward
    Is that still an issue in US?
  • Fred For All 2012/08/29 00:26:36
    Fred For All
    +2
    How about this...get government completly out of marriage. That way someone can marry a tree for all anyone cares but more importantly no one would be forced to respect or acknowledge this stupid "marriages"
  • freakoutnow... cuz mom's here 2012/08/15 23:52:21
    freakoutnow... cuz mom's here
    It's just easier to recognize a transgender person who either has underwent SRS (which would make them physically in all intents and purposes the opposite gender), is socially living as the opposite sex in all aspects of thier lives even if they don't have the surgery, or they are legally recognized as the opposite sex to which they were born to marry the sex opposite of what they are living life as.
  • Fred Fo... freakou... 2012/08/29 00:29:55
    Fred For All
    +2
    na..it's just a mulitated man or woman who is trying to look like what society considers a man/woman..no amount of cosmetic change or acting can change what you were born..if i put black color on my skin ,wearin a hoodie and start saying "yo yo yo" doesn't make me african-american
  • freakou... Fred Fo... 2012/08/30 10:51:53
    freakoutnow... cuz mom's here
    +1
    Well don't you sound like a witty original writer. The issue of hermaphrodites existing and chromosonal/physical abnormalities that go beyond what we think of as man or woman is what makes this a much more complicated matter. For example their are certain birth defects that cause a boy's testicles and penis not to drop while they are in the womb and the biological disorder that causes it also causes their bodies to produce excess estrogen. So when their born they look like a girl so the doc says that they are girl when they only appear to be a girl on the surface due to this disorder. Unless we test every baby chromosonally and do ultrasound immediately after they are born to determine that they are the sex that they external appear to be than hermaphrodites and people with abnormal biological problems will be a problem if we don't acknowlege that GENDER has a biological component (on the surface only), a social component, a legal component. Marriage has only a legal and social component w/o arranged ones.
  • freakou... freakou... 2012/08/30 11:09:27
    freakoutnow... cuz mom's here
    +1
    If a guy and girl get married than usually we don't know if the were born biologically that sex unless all of the biological has been done A) We've seen their original birth certificate (which only really establishes that the doctor did or didn't see certain genitalia but that isn't 100% due to hermaphodites and children born with disorders that cause the genitalia not to drop making a boy be assumed to be a girl because his sexual organs didn't drop) B) We've seen that person naked or in the case of a transsexual we knew them before their transition C) They've had a chromosone test to test for sex & also an ultrasound showing thier abdominal cavity. Unless all that has been done (which would mean that only 1% of the population is entirely in the clear as natal born whatever without any possible hitches). By the way transsexuals have been marrying for years. Some marry as the sex they were classified as at birth. Should these ''same sex marriages'' stand just cuz 1 was classed M & 1 was classed as F @ birth?
  • Fred Fo... freakou... 2012/09/03 03:17:08
    Fred For All
    +2
    well like i said in my single post, if the government would get out of marriage it would benifit everyone..so you are saying if i wear a dress and makeup right now i have every right to go into women's restroom..cool
  • freakou... Fred Fo... 2012/09/03 11:21:41
    freakoutnow... cuz mom's here
    That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying as long as the government is involved than who someone is considered socially and legally matters. Have you ever heard of hermaphrodites (who have the sex organs of both sexes) or read what I said about certain biological disorders (like androgen insenativity disorder which makes biological women produce excess testosterone which enlarges their clitorises to look like small penises or the male equalivilant which doesn't cause a male's balls and penis to drop during inutereo development so he looks like he has a vagina & the disorder also causes the body to produce excess estrogen) because while transsexuals are a different ball game these biological oddities do change the game unfortunately unfavorably. Marriage being a legal thing really only has two purposes: to deal with the issues of having children and thier care & to deal with the issues of inheritance & estate. We could still deal with those but do it through blood test & hieredity. So yeah get the gov out works.
  • Monty Fred Fo... 2012/09/18 22:38:33
    Monty
    that's what some guys want to do probably
  • RawRsaurus Fred Fo... 2012/09/14 19:12:21
    RawRsaurus
    Oh, shut the hell up.
  • Monty Fred Fo... 2013/02/28 20:12:56
    Monty
    lol
  • Joanie 2012/07/27 18:45:45
    Joanie
    +1
    Providing for same sex marriage would solve this "problem". By the way, I am a transsexual and was married and will probably marry again.
  • RawRsaurus Joanie 2012/08/13 21:14:55
    RawRsaurus
    +1
    You would think with completion of SRS surgery, your birth certificate would be corrected. Therefore, who would question it?
  • Joanie RawRsaurus 2012/08/13 22:56:07
    Joanie
    +1
    I am a male to female transsexual, am legally female under Illinois and federal law, and have no desire to change my birth certificate. I am an out transsexual and desire to remain out. I have no desire to hide the fact that my designated sex at birth was male. Some states do and some do not change the gender marker on a transsexual's birth certificate post-surgery. Some states, under their law, recognize sex change post-surgery; some do not. The point I am making is that legalizing same sex marriage would solve all significant potential legal problems related to marriage by transgender people. Coincidentally, I wish to marry another woman so I would need to have same sex marriage legalized in order to fulfill that wish.
  • RawRsaurus Joanie 2012/08/14 01:25:14
    RawRsaurus
    +1
    Of course. I was meaning no harm. I've looked into things like changing sex on a birth certificate as well as undergoing a legal name change, mainly because I, too, am transgender. I wasn't aware not all states were on the same page. I was led to believe, with a surgeon's note stating completion of sex change, the court would change your sex on the birth certificate and issue you a new copy.
  • Joanie RawRsaurus 2012/08/14 13:20:35
    Joanie
    They will in Illinois if you want that done. No harm taken.
  • RawRsaurus Joanie 2012/08/15 04:15:26
    RawRsaurus
    Slight problem--I reside in Kansas.
  • Joanie RawRsaurus 2012/08/15 12:40:43
    Joanie
    Here is a link which suggests that Kansas does not change gender markers on birth certificates, but I do not know the current state of the law in Kansas.

    http://www.metnews.com/articl...

    If you are out, why do you want to change your birth certificate?
  • RawRsaurus Joanie 2012/08/15 19:21:12
    RawRsaurus
    My mindset is different, I guess. I've always been a guy at heart, even when I attempted to force myself into conformity.

    Plus, it'd be kind of weird to undergo extensive surgery and name changes only to have my sex read "female" on my birth certificate.
  • Joanie RawRsaurus 2012/08/15 20:18:47 (edited)
    Joanie
    I've always been a female at heart even when lived in denial/attempted to be male. That is the transsexual phenomenon. My issue is different. I think it is a mistake to live in stealth about who we are. It is my view that living in stealth is dysfunctional for both the individual and the community. What do we have to hide?

    I don't think it is weird that I underwent genital re-assignment surgery, and now have a vagina, clitoris, vulva, etc., and still have male on my birth certificate. That doesn't make me any less female than any other woman. I am legally female under both Illinois and federal law. My gender marker is F on my driver's license, and the Social Security Administration has me listed as female. There is a need to change current identification forms, etc., but why the historical birth certificate?
  • RawRsaurus Joanie 2012/08/15 20:52:18
    RawRsaurus
    I'm up front with friends, family, and co-workers about being transgender. Outside of that circle, I don't bother with explaining because it isn't their business, especially when I'm going to be able to pass as a male.

    I guess we are just different. Having my birth certificate changed would make me feel liberated, in a sense. Like being born a girl never happened and was a horrible nightmare. I'm sure you already know the feelings I'm describing since you attempted to live as a male. However, we are two separate entities and handle our feelings differently. I respect your perspective and opinion, but I don't feel it pertains to my situation.
  • Joanie RawRsaurus 2012/08/15 21:16:33
    Joanie
    I am able to pass as female, especially if I wear my wig. We will have to agree to disagree on whether living in stealth is healthy for individuals or our community. Have you ever read The Autobiography of Malcolm X?
  • RawRsaurus Joanie 2012/08/15 22:39:11
    RawRsaurus
    No, I have not.

    Again, I am only "stealth" to those who don't know me very well. As it should be. My primary objective is to be viewed as male in society, not transgender. Therefore, I won't run into random strangers and admit I'm transgender. I prefer to blend in a bit.
  • RawRsaurus Joanie 2012/08/15 19:23:59
    RawRsaurus
    Also:

    Kansas

    Administrative Code: K.A.R. § 28-17-20 (b)(1)(A)(i) (2006).

    Text: (i) The items recording the registrant's sex may be amended if the amendment is substantiated with the applicant's affidavit that the sex was incorrectly recorded or with a medical certificate substantiating that a physiological or anatomical change occurred.

    Notes: Amended certificates will be marked "Amended," though the amended sections will not be specified.

    Summary: Kansas will issue a birth certificate reflecting the proper sex.
  • Joanie RawRsaurus 2012/08/15 20:19:58
    Joanie
    Thank you for sharing the Kansas law with me.
  • RawRsaurus Joanie 2012/08/15 20:54:27
    RawRsaurus
    You were right, though. Kansas, at one point, wouldn't allow changes to gender on the birth certificate.

    I'm not quite sure if merely having top surgery would constitute an amended certificate, or if one would have to undergo bottom surgery as well.

    I honestly would be satisfied with top surgery and hormones the rest of my life.

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