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To everyone who believes the 'government' is taking away our constitutional rights....

Dragonfly_Path 2010/03/21 02:52:04
You don't want the government involved.....yet you believe the military should protect you.......You don't believe 'health care' is a 'God given right' and you cite The United States Constitution.....yet The United States Constitution states, "promote the general Welfare," The Declaration of Independance states, "certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" note the words LIFE and WELFARE.....You think your
'God given rights' are being taken away from you......Have you seen any news from countries where people are being killed on the streets for these rights that you believe are "God Given Rights"....
Does ANYONE know anything about the history of this country? Any woman, black person, minority person.........actually any person who wasn't a white male land owner back around good old1776 who is reading this right now didn't have the rights these rights! Most of us still wouldn't even be allowed to READ THIS!!! The Ammendments were to 'Change' the Constitution because it wasn't fair!!
Come on people........please can't we at least be honest and realistic when we go around citing something that is over 200 years old and has been changed from time to time and still can be changed...........isn't the be all end all that some people act like it is and it infact does say that everyone is entitled to "Life and General Welfare in order to pursue that Happiness"
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  • Dan (Politicaly Incorrect) 2010/03/21 03:12:14
    Dan (Politicaly Incorrect)
    +6
    The Welfare Clause is not a law. It is an introduction to the enumerated powers in Article 1. A typical Liberal misinterpretation, you have been indoctrinated well.

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  • donellaandrick 2013/07/14 03:12:12
    donellaandrick
    +1
    I THINK OBAMA IS THE ANTI CHRIST HE ACTS LIKE HE IS. HE THINKS HE IS GOD. ACCORDING TO HIM I SHOULD NOT EVEN SAY THAT WORD. I AM PROUD TO BE A GOD FEARING BELIEVING LOVING WOMAN. IMPEACH OBAMA
  • cassandra 2012/03/18 04:50:20
    cassandra
    Bs dude you are a libral retard. Obama is trying to control everything just watch one day armed forces will be all over with tanks and shooting people just cause. And he will be saying who lives and who dies water will be saved for upper class rich people along with any food or fuel while every one ho is poor or not famus will be kicked to the curb or shot even children will be taken away from parents and sold for cheap labor to other countries just so the goverment has money do you want some one comming in ur house at gun point saying get out and that u can't bring nutin with but clothes on ur back and then rip ur children from ur arms just so they can make a fast buck or sell the babies to china for food yes china for food they eat newborn babies and aborted babies and so doae japan and korea because it is said that it gives u better sex bs the only thing this world will be getting desurves god is planning on doomsday he takes out the good. So then the bad stay behind and suffer so i am not worried I am a good person dooms day bring it on. And obama can kiss my fat round mexican ass id ratger be mexican then named after a terroist.
  • Ryan_protector of right 2011/11/15 05:29:33
    Ryan_protector of right
    +2
    @ Dragonfly_Path, you are stupid. And so is everyone else who supports this BS!!!! Its God given becasue it's been earned by forefather's blood! The constitution says nothing about minorities in it, and that's because they were smart. They knew America would change and that if they granted these rights at the time to those minorities there would be riot. Blame that on society, not the men who granted you the right to run your mouth about it. And if you haven't noticed Mr/Mrs. History (who claims to know things) there was a riot. Quite a large one in fact, it's called the civil war. We were the same as those countries fighting now and worse, now they must fight like we did. We pay the government TAXES, probably your too young to know what they are, but thats why the military so valiantly protects us ( my upmost respect to those who do, thank you). We don't pay them to control us. And the "General Welfare" doesn't mean we must have a welfare program, it means enforce laws and keep criminals behind bars, the ones who blatanly disobey the laws of humanity. Not the ones who like to protect their family and hunt for sport by owning a gun. Without that document you wouldn't have the right to be ignorant, you would probably be on the street, same as the rest of the world fighting. Respect it.
  • Nick Name 2010/03/21 23:35:29
    Nick Name
    +2
    Why do some people think they have a constitutional right to stop healthcare?
  • Dragonf... Nick Name 2010/03/22 01:15:21
    Dragonfly_Path
    Well said!!!
  • brutusin~ Proud Apetheist 2010/03/21 21:48:12 (edited)
    brutusin~ Proud Apetheist
    +2
    "........please can't we at least be honest and realistic when we go around citing something that is over 200 years old and has been changed from time to time and still can be changed...........isn't the be all end all that some people act like it is..."


    That is what I say about the Bible all the time. No one listens.
  • Dragonf... brutusi... 2010/03/22 01:16:38
    Dragonfly_Path
    +2
    I agree......The Bible has been put together taken apart add to subtracted from and mis-translated more times then I think most people realize!!!
  • Isma'ila (God has heard)! 2010/03/21 20:30:27
    Isma'ila (God has heard)!
    Typical liberal nonsense! Our rights are being taken away from us and you know it!
  • what the 2010/03/21 19:14:42
    what the
    +1
    more dumb circular illogic
  • MOM - LOL@Silly.St.Sarah.of... 2010/03/21 15:17:08
    MOM - LOL@Silly.St.Sarah.of.Wasilly
    +5
    Things change, that's why we have amendments to the constitution. MOST people evolve, however it is obvious (here, on SH) change has never happened to a conservative here in America, they would rather beat a dead horse.
    people evolve obvious sh change conservative america beat dead horse
  • Dragonf... MOM - L... 2010/03/21 16:47:38
    Dragonfly_Path
    +3
    OMG!!! That is an awesome cartoon! and very well said comment!
  • santa6642 2010/03/21 13:32:22
    santa6642
    +2
    yes freedom but not if you feel you neighbor should pay for it and you just sit and take and take. You want it work for it.We the people owe you nothing.
  • Jim 2010/03/21 09:36:57
    Jim
    +1
    I feel it's a twisted con deriving from are enemy's hiding behind soft kindly love seeking liberals that want peace not war
  • wolfshadow 2010/03/21 09:03:26
    wolfshadow
    +2
    I think the current government has taken "promote the general welfare" as you put it to a new meaning... promote general welfare. They take more from me then I get in return and I don't have a whole lot to give, so it makes me wonder who is getting my money. As far as government involved...if we went back to the constitution you would see the feds are way more involved in our day to day lives then the Constitution called for. Thus, they are taking away our rights. As far as the military protecting us, the people, here in the country, the last time they did that was 1945. They just been sent around the world to enforce our will, not protect the people of the United States.

    And as far as rights... I still don't have the right to get married. When can I expect the same rights as others?
  • Dragonf... wolfshadow 2010/03/21 17:13:57
    Dragonfly_Path
    +1
    WOW! That was so well said!!

    I replied to someone something like what stated about our military protecting us......we are the only industrialized country to NEVER fight a war on our soil.......unless you count the 'war on drugs' which isn’t a ‘war’ and does nothing but spend a lot of money and put people in jail for what is essentially the same thing as alcohol and actually not as destructive as alcohol when you look at the statistics.

    And I 100% agree with everything else you said.....

    I have no idea why there is ANY debate as to who can marry who....especially in a country where at least 50% of 'heterosexual marriages' you know the 'normal ones' end in divorce.…(and as someone who is divorced I have to question your sanity on wanting to get married…..but that‘s a whole other topic….LOL!!!).

    I do agree that the government is too involved in our rights and that we are losing more and more and more. But I don't think that basic health care is where we should be drawing the line at "No more" either. Er need to find a happy medium here……
  • wolfshadow Dragonf... 2010/03/22 04:05:32 (edited)
    wolfshadow
    +1
    Thank you.

    Actually, our military has fought a war on our soil. In World War II the Japanese invaded the Aleutian Islands in Alaska. They weren't there for too long as I understand it, and it isn't widely known. It certainly was NOT told to the people at the time. (And it may not have been ours yet... but I think we owned it even if it wasn't a state yet... I have a US flag from 1940's that has 48 stars-no Alaska or Hawaii)

    I also remember my grandpa telling me about forest fires started by "the Japs" sending balloons of fire over the Northwest states. I also heard about a submarine that sent an airplane (yep a submarine aircraft carrier) to bomb California and a submarine that reported burning Santa Barbara California to the ground (But only did a few hundred dollars in damage). But hey... at least they tried...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
  • Dragonf... wolfshadow 2010/03/22 04:54:45
    Dragonfly_Path
    Yeah you are right..... and I'm not sure either if Alaska was a part of the US yet.....My grandfather was in the Navy during WW2 as well.....

    The point I was trying to make was the fact that we've never had a battle waged or fought on our soil. WW2 is a great example......The French and English would wake up one day and have the US, English, French, etc. military moving on their land and houses. There'd be tanks coming up the street and their houses we're bombed. They'd spend days in their cellars, basements, etc.

    My great Uncle was in the first group of paratroopers (Band of Brothers). He wasn't in 'Easy Company', but he was a medic because he promised his mother he wouldn't kill anyone (I still can't begin to wrap my head around what he went through). He was also the first paratrooper to break both legs on a jump (not his fault, they were supposed to land in water but landed on land or vice versa in the middle of the night), and return to jump again and serve active duty.

    My grandmother said (she was just a kid) the day he came home 3 paratroopers (men who served with him) came to the house and took him out, and he was gone for several days, and when he came back he pretty much picked up where he left off in life before the war. He didn't talk about it much at all. But...



    Yeah you are right..... and I'm not sure either if Alaska was a part of the US yet.....My grandfather was in the Navy during WW2 as well.....

    The point I was trying to make was the fact that we've never had a battle waged or fought on our soil. WW2 is a great example......The French and English would wake up one day and have the US, English, French, etc. military moving on their land and houses. There'd be tanks coming up the street and their houses we're bombed. They'd spend days in their cellars, basements, etc.

    My great Uncle was in the first group of paratroopers (Band of Brothers). He wasn't in 'Easy Company', but he was a medic because he promised his mother he wouldn't kill anyone (I still can't begin to wrap my head around what he went through). He was also the first paratrooper to break both legs on a jump (not his fault, they were supposed to land in water but landed on land or vice versa in the middle of the night), and return to jump again and serve active duty.

    My grandmother said (she was just a kid) the day he came home 3 paratroopers (men who served with him) came to the house and took him out, and he was gone for several days, and when he came back he pretty much picked up where he left off in life before the war. He didn't talk about it much at all. But she said he told her that's what they did for each other when they came home. They went to their house, got them, took them somewhere, and helped them deal with the incredible.....everything..... in their way. I can't even begin to imagine what our soldiers went through, everyone of them........they truly are heros........

    Thanks for sharing that.

    Peace.
    (more)
  • wolfshadow Dragonf... 2010/03/22 05:03:18 (edited)
    wolfshadow
    +1
    My American Grandfather served the US army in WWII, my Great grandfather served in Italy... as the head of the German S.S., his son served in the German army and was involved in the march on Paris. Caught feeding the 'wrong people' he was sent to the Russian front where he was buried alive, twice, while getting shelled by the Russians... imagine being offended by a little thing like an invasion... (jk)... he survived but with stubs in place of some of his finger having had to dig his way out. My mother wasn't expected to survive, having been born in a bomb shelter while the American and British Air Forces were systematically dismantling the city around her. Anemic and undernourished the first few years of life due to the scarcity of meat. Eggs from the chickens and food grown in the garden or hunger was the meal of the day.

    Most people today have no idea what war is about. It sucks. I lost the man I loved with all my heart in Iraq. It sucks being alone, and being told my love and our relationship meant nothing. If we don't remember, accept and learn from our history, we are doomed to ignorance and to repeat the mistakes of the past.

    Peace to you my friend.
  • ☆WILLIAM☆ 2010/03/21 07:58:33
    ☆WILLIAM☆
    +1
    The Welfare Clause? BWAHAHAHAHAHA.

    Fail.
  • LinkX 2010/03/21 04:52:43
    LinkX
    +5
    Give it up. The right could care less what's in the Constitution, there is money on the line and it's money that the Insurance companies will loose.
  • wolfshadow LinkX 2010/03/21 09:04:20
    wolfshadow
    +1
    I don't think either side cares whats in the Constitution when it comes to the government.
  • LinkX wolfshadow 2010/03/21 13:59:38
    LinkX
    +2
    Well, remembering the last Republican President "Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, it's just a goddamned piece of Paper." Obama on the other hand is a Constitutional lawyer.
  • wolfshadow LinkX 2010/03/21 14:56:14
    wolfshadow
    +1
    So that makes him... an expert at getting around it?
  • LinkX wolfshadow 2010/03/21 15:14:11
    LinkX
    +2
    *Sigh* I give. Obama could come with a cross and a constitution preaching Jesus and Jefferson and you would still hate him.
  • wolfshadow LinkX 2010/03/21 15:16:03
  • LinkX wolfshadow 2010/03/21 22:33:48
    LinkX
    I can't tell if you hate him because he's a Democrat or because he's black. I know it has nothing to do with his policies because if he embraces a Republican policy all Republicans change views. You guys have supported some Democrats so I don't think it has to do with his political party. That leaves one thing...
  • wolfshadow LinkX 2010/03/22 04:47:40
    wolfshadow
    I have many reasons for not liking him. The first, he's a liar. And he's caught at it. I don't care what anyone, him included, has to say about where he was born. When in college, he applied for and accepted a scholarship for foreign students. HE put on that application for money that he was from Kenya. Now he says he's from Hawaii... Either way, he either lied then, or he is lying now. If he lied then, he's a thief too.

    I can't stand his vision of healthcare, I can't stand his party. Until that election I considered myself a democrat. The DNC made it obvious that they did not care who the people wanted for the democratic nominee, they twisted and turned every which way to make sure that Hillary didn't get the vote, in one state, where Obama himself chose NOT to be on the ballot, the DNC gave him HALF the votes when they decided to count that state in the primary... I have Many Many wonderful reasons for not liking the Commander in Thief, the beauty of this nation USED to be that these reasons are MINE and I didn't have to share them with anyone. When did that right to privacy in our thoughts get taken from us?

    There also was a time in this country, not long ago, that if you disagreed with a political party it was your right as an American, and that didn't make you of a ce...



    I have many reasons for not liking him. The first, he's a liar. And he's caught at it. I don't care what anyone, him included, has to say about where he was born. When in college, he applied for and accepted a scholarship for foreign students. HE put on that application for money that he was from Kenya. Now he says he's from Hawaii... Either way, he either lied then, or he is lying now. If he lied then, he's a thief too.

    I can't stand his vision of healthcare, I can't stand his party. Until that election I considered myself a democrat. The DNC made it obvious that they did not care who the people wanted for the democratic nominee, they twisted and turned every which way to make sure that Hillary didn't get the vote, in one state, where Obama himself chose NOT to be on the ballot, the DNC gave him HALF the votes when they decided to count that state in the primary... I have Many Many wonderful reasons for not liking the Commander in Thief, the beauty of this nation USED to be that these reasons are MINE and I didn't have to share them with anyone. When did that right to privacy in our thoughts get taken from us?

    There also was a time in this country, not long ago, that if you disagreed with a political party it was your right as an American, and that didn't make you of a certain class or race or racist. These days, everyone implies your a racist if you don't agree with Obama. And I for one, am getting tired of that.

    So as far as your implications and inuendo... "That leaves one thing..." no Linkx, it leaves many things. The fact that you think it leaves ONE thing says more about you then about me. And on a final note, you and I are sodaheads... there was a time that that made us friends. Granted we have never met in person but at one time you (or I) said some things the other agreed with, liked or laughed at and we decided we would link up here on this site and share ideas.

    The fact tha you would insinuate something along the lines that you did, to a friend... it's no wonder so many people on this site hate each other when this impliocation gets thrown around so much at strangers... I guess that leaves just one thing....
    (more)
  • LinkX wolfshadow 2010/03/22 04:56:12 (edited)
    LinkX
    +1
    He's a liar because someone made up a story about him applying for foreign aid?

    Like I say, I can't tell if it's because he's black or because he's a Democrat.

    I honestly hope that I am wrong, I don't want anyone to be a racist, and I hope I am wrong with every ounce of energy in my body.
  • Dragonf... wolfshadow 2010/03/21 17:15:29
    Dragonfly_Path
    +1
    I agree.....but I think that 'the American People' or at least most of them do....despite what FOX news says........cause they aint speaking for me or anyone I know.....
  • boomer 2010/03/21 04:29:46
    boomer
    +3
    quit spreading propaganda to pursue your socialist agenda. Here's something you might try on for size... even if our founding documents OK'd government ran health care, or government intervention into the market of any kind... I would oppose it on the grounds that government is incapable of making the economic calculations required to run it. Economic calculation can only come about through the market process, not the iron fist.

    The alleged clause "promoting the common welfare" is found in the pre-amble, not in articles 1, 2, or 3, and it is extremely vague. What welfare means today didn't mean back then. The pre-amble is a paragraph stating the purpose of the document, and does not grant government any special little powers. (must be nice to grant yourself power to run other people's life huh?)

    The declaration is to be used as a guide for what was going on in the founders' heads when our nation began, and does not grant anybody any powers. sorry to disappoint you, but it is not a ruling document. Its meaning is philosophical in nature.

    The military shouldn't necessarily protect me... in fact, I don't think we really need a military. If an opposing force were to invade and try to take us over, they'd get enough hell from the people... how do you think a bunch of far...



    quit spreading propaganda to pursue your socialist agenda. Here's something you might try on for size... even if our founding documents OK'd government ran health care, or government intervention into the market of any kind... I would oppose it on the grounds that government is incapable of making the economic calculations required to run it. Economic calculation can only come about through the market process, not the iron fist.

    The alleged clause "promoting the common welfare" is found in the pre-amble, not in articles 1, 2, or 3, and it is extremely vague. What welfare means today didn't mean back then. The pre-amble is a paragraph stating the purpose of the document, and does not grant government any special little powers. (must be nice to grant yourself power to run other people's life huh?)

    The declaration is to be used as a guide for what was going on in the founders' heads when our nation began, and does not grant anybody any powers. sorry to disappoint you, but it is not a ruling document. Its meaning is philosophical in nature.

    The military shouldn't necessarily protect me... in fact, I don't think we really need a military. If an opposing force were to invade and try to take us over, they'd get enough hell from the people... how do you think a bunch of farmers beat down the most powerful military on the planet in the first place?

    Nationalizing healthcare may or may not promote life, but it doesn't promote liberty. One right cannot infringe on another or it is destructive to all rights.

    The Constitution is not a perfect document, and it is important we understand how liberty and prosperity work so people you like you don't piss them away.
    (more)
  • Dragonf... boomer 2010/03/21 06:35:40
    Dragonfly_Path
    +1
    ok you are all over the place........
    1st. the document isn't a ruling document, it's philosophical in nature.....but one 'right' can't infringe on another 'right' or it's destructive to all 'rights'?
    2nd. the Preamble isn't a part of the constitution, but losing our 'rights' is what everyone is complaining the health care bill will do........our freedom and liberty......
    3rd. the reason you state is that "government is incapable of making the economic calculations required to run it" yet this same government can start wars without having ANY way of paying for it.
    (oh and by the way I am completely against war & the trillions spent on our 'national defense'......I am speaking to the people who are against health care because it's not a right and the government shouldn't be involved in our lives, yet totally believe they have the right to have the military a government run industry protect us)
    4th. definition of Liberty is:
    1 : the quality or state of being free: a : the power to do as one pleases b : freedom from physical restraint c : freedom from arbitrary or despotic control d : the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges e : the power of choice........from the 14th century Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French liberté...













    ok you are all over the place........
    1st. the document isn't a ruling document, it's philosophical in nature.....but one 'right' can't infringe on another 'right' or it's destructive to all 'rights'?
    2nd. the Preamble isn't a part of the constitution, but losing our 'rights' is what everyone is complaining the health care bill will do........our freedom and liberty......
    3rd. the reason you state is that "government is incapable of making the economic calculations required to run it" yet this same government can start wars without having ANY way of paying for it.
    (oh and by the way I am completely against war & the trillions spent on our 'national defense'......I am speaking to the people who are against health care because it's not a right and the government shouldn't be involved in our lives, yet totally believe they have the right to have the military a government run industry protect us)
    4th. definition of Liberty is:
    1 : the quality or state of being free: a : the power to do as one pleases b : freedom from physical restraint c : freedom from arbitrary or despotic control d : the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges e : the power of choice........from the 14th century Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French liberté, from Latin libertat-, libertas, from liber free — more at liberal........Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin liberalis suitable for a freeman, generous, from liber free; perhaps akin to Old English lēodan to grow, Greek eleutheros free
    *****sidenote I also think this is interesting to note that liberty is from the root word liberal....again another attack I keep getting........So I guess I am a liberal and damn proud of it
    So as I understand positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges is kind of hard to do if your ill, dying or dead. So these things actually go together......
    5th. the definition of welfare is:
    1 : the state of doing well especially in respect to good fortune, happiness, well-being, or prosperity........from the 14th century Etymology: Middle English, from the phrase wel faren to fare well
    Note the keywords here well-being, happiness, and/or prosperity again hard to do if you are ill, dying or dead. Also just how is this a socialist agenda or propaganda or whatever you all choose to call it?
    *****Another side note It cracks me up that everyone who has argued that point to me has thought I was referring to 'public assistance' which I didn't even catch on to until you who are the 4th person said something about the definition of welfare or the meaning of welfare is not the same as today.....and I'm the racist socialist........
    6th. Your lat two statements are now invalid (aside from just mean, nasty, attacking and senseless by your own points and arguments and prejudging the way I was using the words.......I was using them EXACTLY as they were written in the constitution) "Nationalizing healthcare may or may not promote life, but it doesn't promote liberty. One right cannot infringe on another or it is destructive to all rights.
    The Constitution is not a perfect document, and it is important we understand how liberty and prosperity work so people you like you don't piss them away."

    I do understand the constitution and I chose and used the exact words and phrases to back-up my statement............which seems to only be proved over and over and over by the very people who are arguing it.......I'm not racist, prejudgist or a socialist.........I just want the constitution to do what it says it's states that it was created to do and what people keep saying that it does for EVERYONE............

    Now if you can show me that the men who wrote and signed these documents were using definitions from the 20th century then you will be right and I am wrong

    Peace!!!!!
    (more)
  • boomer Dragonf... 2010/03/21 15:18:28
    boomer
    +1
    how is it a socialist agenda? because government will be running health care, that's how. It doesn't matter whether it's privately owned or not, they will be determining who gets coverage over what and when. If you don't think that is big totalitarian government, then you don't know what you're talking about.

    the declaration of independence is not a ruling document. when people cite it today they do so for philosophical reasoning.

    the pre-amble is part of the Constitution, but it's got nothing to do with granting anyone any special authority. Its purpose is to state the purpose of the Constitution, not to use to handout unwarranted power to the bureaucracy.

    War doesn't require economic calculation based on the laws of supply and demand. Their's more going on here than paying off everyone's health care bills. If massive bureaucracies could successfully calculate economic situations, communism would have been the utopia it promised to be, but it's impossible and communism is a failure. I know this is not communism, but if our solution to every problem is to have the government interfere with what we do, we will live in a tyrannical state in which economic calculation is impossible.

    the word Liberty does not come from liberal, the word liberal comes from liberty. get it ri...





    how is it a socialist agenda? because government will be running health care, that's how. It doesn't matter whether it's privately owned or not, they will be determining who gets coverage over what and when. If you don't think that is big totalitarian government, then you don't know what you're talking about.

    the declaration of independence is not a ruling document. when people cite it today they do so for philosophical reasoning.

    the pre-amble is part of the Constitution, but it's got nothing to do with granting anyone any special authority. Its purpose is to state the purpose of the Constitution, not to use to handout unwarranted power to the bureaucracy.

    War doesn't require economic calculation based on the laws of supply and demand. Their's more going on here than paying off everyone's health care bills. If massive bureaucracies could successfully calculate economic situations, communism would have been the utopia it promised to be, but it's impossible and communism is a failure. I know this is not communism, but if our solution to every problem is to have the government interfere with what we do, we will live in a tyrannical state in which economic calculation is impossible.

    the word Liberty does not come from liberal, the word liberal comes from liberty. get it right. If liberty is the absence of coercion, why do you think you can use the authority of the federal government to tell everyone in the health care industry what to do and still maintain liberty?

    haha, what'd you expect about welfare?

    If you think the Constitution is designed to nationalize health care in any way, you don't understand the document, you don't understand the founding of this nation, and if you're for it, you have no clue when it comes to economics or prosperity.

    I don't care what definition you want to use... government authority can not spread without destroying liberty. Liberty, as per your definition as well, means the absence of coercion. Government is nothing but a monopoly of coercion.
    (more)
  • Manuel boomer 2010/03/21 17:07:41
    Manuel
    +1
    So how good is your health care?
  • boomer Manuel 2010/03/21 17:16:09
    boomer
    +1
    i don't have it... i'm relatively poor.
  • Manuel boomer 2010/03/21 17:28:19
    Manuel
    +1
    So your ok with not having Heath care?
  • boomer Manuel 2010/03/21 17:31:22
    boomer
    +1
    no, i'd like to have it, and the best way for me as a consumer to go about getting it partially involves supporting the economic system that does the best job of distributing services to the largest amount of people... and that is the free market... not corporatism like we have now, not socialism, not more interventionism...
  • Manuel boomer 2010/03/21 18:15:31
    Manuel
    +1
    corporatism and socialism are also part of the free market in America dude....

    and this here ----no, i'd like to have it, and the best way for me as a consumer to go about getting it partially involves supporting the economic system that does the best job of distributing services to the largest amount of people...

    You have to realize that Government workers don't pay very high premiums for their health care. because they are the largest amount of
    people in one body that pay into one pool to get the best deals on health care...my advice to you...is you don't like the health care system in the private free market ...go get a government job if you want affordtable health care ...other wise ....?
  • boomer Manuel 2010/03/21 18:19:40
    boomer
    +2
    HAHA! So corporatism and socialism are free market tools now is that it? Have you ever read anything on economics? If you can show me how someone coming in to my home and robbing me of my money works out for me, I would love for you to try. don't get mad if I disagree with you, and I won't get mad if you say something completely illogical, because it should be pretty entertaining. Socialism/interventionism/cor... etc. are cancers on our market.

    Imagine that, government and corporate america in bed together, and somehow government employees get lower premiums... who would've thought?

    I'd rather drop dead than work for the system of coercion.
  • Manuel boomer 2010/03/21 20:18:16
    Manuel
    +1
    it obvious you don't understand freedom...For example; you can't be locked up in this country for being a Communist or a KKK member or a Tea Party member or a black Panther member.....RDF put in Social Security in our democratic society. FBI and CIA and Secret military are social organizations that were set up by presidents in the past.
    All these came into play because of the Freedoms we have based on the Constitution.

    For instance; Nixon set up the Drug Enforcement Agency. Now many Americans thought that was unconstitutional. Here's one better; many Americans thought it was unconstitutional for the Government to set up a Alcohol tobacco and Firearms control system on these things. People who very much think along the same lines as you do believed that things like this were going against the rights to their pursuit of liberty and Happiness. And Both of these acts were set up by the GOP. So there you go.

    And this- The Congress shall have power... To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

    The President put forth a bill for Health care reform. The Congress shall have power to pass this ...

    it obvious you don't understand freedom...For example; you can't be locked up in this country for being a Communist or a KKK member or a Tea Party member or a black Panther member.....RDF put in Social Security in our democratic society. FBI and CIA and Secret military are social organizations that were set up by presidents in the past.
    All these came into play because of the Freedoms we have based on the Constitution.

    For instance; Nixon set up the Drug Enforcement Agency. Now many Americans thought that was unconstitutional. Here's one better; many Americans thought it was unconstitutional for the Government to set up a Alcohol tobacco and Firearms control system on these things. People who very much think along the same lines as you do believed that things like this were going against the rights to their pursuit of liberty and Happiness. And Both of these acts were set up by the GOP. So there you go.

    And this- The Congress shall have power... To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

    The President put forth a bill for Health care reform. The Congress shall have power to pass this bill if they choose to.....and where America is now, many feel the need for this Health care Bill to pass

    P..S. so what you are really saying is you can't get a Government Job?--- or else you're getting SSI and working under the table.....
    (more)
  • boomer Manuel 2010/03/21 20:27:36
    boomer
    +1
    I don't understand freedom? You're the one arguing for nationalized health care... which would go far in negating freedom by spreading the apparatus of compulsion and coercion.

    Social security, the FBI and CIA have nothing to do with freedom. The activities of radical groups such as the KKK, tea partiers, and black panthers end when they interfere with the rights of others.

    The DEA need not exist, because it is unconstitutional for the government to control what you do and do not put inside your body. same goes for ATF... all the Constitution says regarding firearms is that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. Their are no regulatory powers permitted by the Constitution. That is not to say that State governments couldn't do it, just that the Federal Government can not.

    The necessary and proper clause needs to be clearly defined, until it is, I am not for using it to interpret what the government can and can not do, since it can be twisted to mean the government can do almost anything. It should also be pointed out that as per the 10th amendment, anything not clearly given to the federal government is reserved to the states and people. Necessary and proper is not clear.

    It's funny, government intervention into health care, namely managed care, is what has given u...

    I don't understand freedom? You're the one arguing for nationalized health care... which would go far in negating freedom by spreading the apparatus of compulsion and coercion.

    Social security, the FBI and CIA have nothing to do with freedom. The activities of radical groups such as the KKK, tea partiers, and black panthers end when they interfere with the rights of others.

    The DEA need not exist, because it is unconstitutional for the government to control what you do and do not put inside your body. same goes for ATF... all the Constitution says regarding firearms is that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. Their are no regulatory powers permitted by the Constitution. That is not to say that State governments couldn't do it, just that the Federal Government can not.

    The necessary and proper clause needs to be clearly defined, until it is, I am not for using it to interpret what the government can and can not do, since it can be twisted to mean the government can do almost anything. It should also be pointed out that as per the 10th amendment, anything not clearly given to the federal government is reserved to the states and people. Necessary and proper is not clear.

    It's funny, government intervention into health care, namely managed care, is what has given us this wonderful system to begin with. Congress will do what Congress wants... but they are ignoring the rule of law.

    I'm saying Government is the enemy of liberty, and I will not work for our government until they become limited to things which are both consistent with liberty and the rule of law.
    (more)

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