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THE U.N. SHOULD ADMIT PALESTINE AS A FULL MEMBER STATE

Intelligence Squared 2011/11/28 18:47:46
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On January 10, 2012 in New York City, leading authorities will debate whether the U.N. should admit Palestine as a full member state. Cast your vote now. You can also participate in the conversation on Twitter at @IQ2US or on Facebook at ThinkTwice.



Intelligence Squared U.S. brings together the world’s leading authorities for an exciting contest of ideas, wit and persuasion in a series of provocative and timely debates. Best of all, your vote decides who carries the day. Attend the debates live in New York City, watch the livestream on Slate.com, or listen on NPR. More information at www.iq2us.org.

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Top Opinion

  • Hobbitt / Oldsquid 2011/11/28 22:47:48
    NO - AGAINST THE MOTION
    Hobbitt / Oldsquid
    +6
    There's no such thing as "Palestine"
    "Palestine" is the name that the Romans gave to the land of Israel when they conquered this land 2000 years ago and Wikipedia explains (Israel) :
    It was during this time that the Romans gave the name Syria Palaestina to the geographic area, in an attempt to erase Jewish ties to the land. The Mishnah and Jerusalem Talmud, two of Judaism's most important religious texts, were composed in the region during this period. The Muslims conquered the land from the Byzantine Empire in 638 CE. The area was ruled by various Muslim states (interrupted by the rule of the Crusaders) before becoming part of the Ottoman Empire in 1517.
    And also the Greeks prior to the Romans:

    Abba Eban wrote in his book 'My nation - The history of the nation of Israel' in page 64 that the Greek historian Herodotos used the name 'Palestina', that is 'Pleshet', for the first time as a complete name for all the land of Israel while in the past it referred only to the populated areas of the Philistines themselves.

    Abba Eban added that the Philistines, who settled down in the shore area, were the first ones with whom the Greek invaders encountered thus the Greeks called all the land in the name of the Philistines.

    There was never in the history of the world a "Palestinian"...























































































    There's no such thing as "Palestine"
    "Palestine" is the name that the Romans gave to the land of Israel when they conquered this land 2000 years ago and Wikipedia explains (Israel) :
    It was during this time that the Romans gave the name Syria Palaestina to the geographic area, in an attempt to erase Jewish ties to the land. The Mishnah and Jerusalem Talmud, two of Judaism's most important religious texts, were composed in the region during this period. The Muslims conquered the land from the Byzantine Empire in 638 CE. The area was ruled by various Muslim states (interrupted by the rule of the Crusaders) before becoming part of the Ottoman Empire in 1517.
    And also the Greeks prior to the Romans:

    Abba Eban wrote in his book 'My nation - The history of the nation of Israel' in page 64 that the Greek historian Herodotos used the name 'Palestina', that is 'Pleshet', for the first time as a complete name for all the land of Israel while in the past it referred only to the populated areas of the Philistines themselves.

    Abba Eban added that the Philistines, who settled down in the shore area, were the first ones with whom the Greek invaders encountered thus the Greeks called all the land in the name of the Philistines.

    There was never in the history of the world a "Palestinian" nation.

    There was never in the history of the world a "Palestinian" state.

    There was never in the history of the world a "Palestinian" kingdom.

    There were never in the history of the world "Palestinian" kings.

    There was never in the history of the world a "Palestinian" capital.

    There was never in the history of the world a "Palestinian" essence.

    There was never in the history of the world a "Palestinian" heritage.

    There was never in the history of the world a "Palestinian" culture.

    The "Palestinians" are ARABS who were brought to the region by the Ottoman empire as part of the Muslim occupation in the region and later on also by the British who entered masses of Arabs from the surroundings while closing Israel to its genuine owners. Arabs from countries like Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Yemen emigrated to Israel in the beginning of the 20th century to look for employment (due to the development of this land by the Judean inhabitants) while pretending to be living in Israel "for thousands of years..." These Arabs are definitely not the tribes from Crete who settled down in the 5 cities of Gaza strip after the Exodus of Israel from Egypt. These tribes were called Philistines and they weren't Arabs at all and the nowadays "Palestinians" are definitely not their descendants. The Philistines don't exist as a nation nowadays.

    There's no "Palestinian" nation but an ARAB one which went out of the Arabian Peninsula and occupied dozens of lands, including the land of Israel.

    According to the Israeli Wikipedia the Arabs who were living in the land of Israel started to call themselves "Palestinians" only after the establishment of Israel in 1948 and prior to it they called themselves just 'Arabs' and this is how they called their organizations ('Arab Higher Committee') and their struggles ('The Great Arab Revolt') and nicknamed the land of Israel in different names such as 'Southern Syria'.

    Zuheir Mohsen is widely known for having made the following statement in a March 1977 interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw:
    "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

    For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."
    There was an Israeli state in the land of Israel 2000 years before the prophet of Islam dreamt that he's flying on a "magical horse" from Mecca to Jerusalem.

    There was an Israeli nation in the land of Israel.

    There was an Israeli kingdom in the land of Israel.

    There were Israeli kings in the Israeli kingdom of Israel.

    There was an Israeli capital in the kingdom of Israel.

    There was and there is an Israeli essence.

    There was and there is an Israeli heritage.

    There was and there is an Israeli culture.

    Israel isn't just a name of a state. It's first and for all a name of a nation (Am Yisrael). Israel is the name of the father of the nation (Jacob) and Israelis are his descendants. The real meaning of the word 'Israeli' is someone who belongs to the nation of Israel and not only "a citizen of a state called Israel". The word 'Israeli' (Yisraeli) is mentioned in the Torah and we use it in Hebrew till this day. Yisraelim in plural.

    Don't say "Jews", say Judeans. Yehudi in Hebrew is Judean in English, not "Jew". "Jews" is a mockery word for Judeans. The word 'Judeans' was invented by gentiles. When the Persians, the Greeks and the Romans conquered the land of Israel they called all the Israelis in the name 'Judeans' because at those days the tribe of Judah was the biggest and the dominant tribe which survived the exile of Assyria in which 10 tribes of Israel were exiled. The tribe of Judah lived in the Judean desert thus the gentiles who occupied the land of Israel called the members of this tribe (and also the ones of Benjamin and Levi who joined it) in the name 'Judeans'.

    When Israelis (Judeans) who live abroad go to synagogue they don't read about Judeans and not about "Jews" in the prayer books nor in the Torah but about 'The Nation of Israel', 'The Children of Israel', 'The House of Israel', 'Israeli', 'Shema Yisrael', etc. They are Israelis because they belong to the nation of Israel even if they aren't citizens of a state called Israel. Both of the words 'Judeans' and 'Israelis' refer to nationality, to ethnic identity and not to religion. Judeans are members of the tribe of Judah and not "people who believe in Judaism". And the nation isn't called Judah but Israel, and so does the land and in the future the 10 tribes will return to this nation.

    Israelity ("Judaism") isn't a "religion" but a historical national covenant between G-d and the Israelis.

    That's why Arab citizens of Israel don't define themselves as Israelis but as Arab/"Palestinian" citizens of a state CALLED Israel. They aren't members of the Israeli nation but of the Ishmaelite nation. Ishmael used to shoot arrows at Isaac (father of Israel) while saying: "I'm only playing..." That's why there's no "Israeli-Palestinian conflict" but a WAR that the Ishmaelites/Arabs opened on the Israelis. Also Muhammad murdered Israelis in Saudi Arabia who refused to accept his murderous pagan dream.

    That's why we should say: End the Arab occupation in the land of Israel!

    Couple of facts that the haters of Israel don't like:

    Israel became a state in 1312 B.C., two millennia before Islam.

    Arab refugees from Israel began calling themselves "Palestinians" in 1967, two decades after (modern) Israeli statehood in 1948.

    After conquering the land in 1272 B.C., Israelis ruled it for a thousand years and maintained a continuous presence there for 3,300 years.

    The only Arab rule following conquest in 633 B.C. lasted just 22 years.

    For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem was the Israeli capital. It was never the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even under Jordanian rule, (East) Jerusalem was not made the capital, and no Arab leader came to visit it.

    Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Tanach, but not once is it mentioned in the Qur'an.

    King David founded Jerusalem; Mohammed never set foot in it.

    Israelis pray facing Jerusalem; Muslims face Mecca. If they are between the two cities, Muslims pray facing Mecca, with their backs to Jerusalem.

    In 1948, Arab leaders urged their people to leave, promising to cleanse the land of Israeli presence. 68% of them fled without ever setting eyes on an Israeli soldier.

    Virtually the entire Israeli population of Muslim countries had to flee as the result of violence and pogroms.

    Some 630,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948, while close to a million Israelis were forced to leave the Muslim countries.

    In spite of the vast territories at their disposal, Arab refugees were deliberately prevented from assimilating into their host countries. Of 100 million refugees following World War 2, they are the only group to have never integrated with their co-religionists. Most of the Israeli refugees from Europe and Arab lands were settled in Israel, a country no larger than New Jersey, USA.

    There are 22 Muslim countries, not counting "Palestine". There is only one Israeli state.

    Fatah and Hamas constitutions still call for the destruction of Israel.

    During the Jordanian occupation, Israeli holy sites were vandalized and were off limits to Israelis. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian holy sites are accessible to all faiths.

    The U.N. was silent when the Jordanians destroyed 58 synagogues in the old city of Jerusalem. It remained silent while Jordan systematically desecrated the ancient Israeli cemetery on the Mount of Olives, and it remained silent when Jordan enforced apartheid laws preventing Israelis from accessing the temple mount and western wall.

    Arabs started all five wars against Israel, and lost every one of them.
    (more)

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Opinions

  • Robert Hand 2012/01/13 03:37:00
    NO - AGAINST THE MOTION
    Robert Hand
    To Hobbit: I'd not waste my breath on an airhead antisemite like Michael. In order to learn, one must first admit their ignorance, and he's too stupid to recognize his. Goebbels would have love this guy! Am Yisrael Chai!
  • sarahleah 2012/01/12 21:12:46
    NO - AGAINST THE MOTION
    sarahleah
    +2
    There is no Palestine!
  • Susanne... sarahleah 2012/02/16 18:06:56
    Susanne DeWitt
    Palestine was the name of the British Mandatory Palestine. The UN recognized a division calling one country Israel, for the Jewish population and one country, Jordan, for the Arabs.
    The Arabs refused to recognize Israel. The Arabs countries declared war on Israel, and LOST. Sanne DeWitt
  • Anonymous 2012/01/12 14:02:21
    NO - AGAINST THE MOTION
    Anonymous
    +2
    Who exactly would this Palestinian state be for? Barghouti himself admitted that the PLO would be the ones to take over the new government of "Palestine." One little problem: The PLO has no claim to represent the Palestinian people. They weren't formed by Palestinians, and let's not forget they lost the election in 2006. Hamas won, and Hamas is AGAINST this plan! And let's not forget the Palestinians who live in refugee camps and didn't even vote in the election to begin with.

    So who exactly is this Palestinian state for? Not the Palestinian people, but a power grab for Abbas and the PLO. There's no reason why the UN should support that.
  • Abdul 2012/01/11 09:35:06
    YES - FOR THE MOTION
    Abdul
    +1
    Definitely, YES for this long overdue motion.
  • A.J 2012/01/09 15:36:51
    YES - FOR THE MOTION
    A.J
    Yes.
    What's israel and their racist supporters afraid of?? The truth to come out.
  • michael 2012/01/07 00:32:17
    YES - FOR THE MOTION
    michael
    +1
    @Hobbit/Oldsquid......thank you for your reply to my response to your post. As evident from your reply, where you could not find anything to copy and paste in response to me and your incoherent and racist rant, it is unfortunately individuals like you that are the stumbling block to peace. The truth is Israel does not want peace because peace would mean giving back stolen land and admitting to decades of war crimes against a defenceless nation. Israel are masters at portraying themselves as the victims, when in reality the real victims have been forced out of their homes and humiliated by settlers from Europe and the US who have NO RIGHTFUL claim. The truth is that Israel is an apartheid state with one law for Jews and another for non Jews, the latter treating people no better than animals. The truth is that Israel can no longer hide the crimes it has committed and it's own people are now voicing their anger at the way people like Sharon and Netanhayu have acted and have allowed settlers to act. The truth is that Israel proclaimes itself as the only democracy in the MiddleEast but treats its Israeli Arab citizens as second class citizens whilst preventing foreign journalists from entering Gaza and revealing the full horrors of Israels crimes. The facts are my friend that Israe...
    @Hobbit/Oldsquid......thank you for your reply to my response to your post. As evident from your reply, where you could not find anything to copy and paste in response to me and your incoherent and racist rant, it is unfortunately individuals like you that are the stumbling block to peace. The truth is Israel does not want peace because peace would mean giving back stolen land and admitting to decades of war crimes against a defenceless nation. Israel are masters at portraying themselves as the victims, when in reality the real victims have been forced out of their homes and humiliated by settlers from Europe and the US who have NO RIGHTFUL claim. The truth is that Israel is an apartheid state with one law for Jews and another for non Jews, the latter treating people no better than animals. The truth is that Israel can no longer hide the crimes it has committed and it's own people are now voicing their anger at the way people like Sharon and Netanhayu have acted and have allowed settlers to act. The truth is that Israel proclaimes itself as the only democracy in the MiddleEast but treats its Israeli Arab citizens as second class citizens whilst preventing foreign journalists from entering Gaza and revealing the full horrors of Israels crimes. The facts are my friend that Israel is happy to collect taxes from the Palestinians but not happy to give them the right that you and I enjoy. The fact is that Israel continues to violate multiple UN resolutions regarding occupied territories and the reality is that the world is waking up to see the injustice and unless Israel changes it's policies then the sad truth is that Israel will no longer be a viable State and will therefore be the cause of it's own destruction.
    (more)
  • Muhammad 2012/01/06 05:47:48
    YES - FOR THE MOTION
    Muhammad
    +2
    It is against the basic human rights to stop the people from asking for their rights ! Those people who ve been deprived of their children, their land and their property ! They must be given a platform so that they can communicate in an effective manner with international community ! And it is the only way to stop the bloody violence waged in Palestine !
  • Rob Muhammad 2012/01/12 21:25:06
    Rob
    +3
    People who've been deprived...you mean by Jordan, iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, all of whom have killed/expelled more 'Palestinians' than Israel ever has? Remember Black September Muhammed? Face it, what this is about is the Jews, you have nothing to say about how your Arab 'Brothers' treated the people whom identify as 'Palestinians'. Instead, you save your anger and hatred for the only country in the Middle East that actually allowed the 'Palestinians' so much as a square dunam of land to call their own. And you know what? Based on how they've behaved since Oslo, that was a huge mistake. I think we can do without another terrorist squat, thanks.
  • Claudia Leibowitz 2012/01/06 05:20:22
    YES - FOR THE MOTION
    Claudia Leibowitz
    +3
    Seriously you guys?! are you blind? how many people have been killed in Israel compared to Palestine?? 6480 Palestinians vs 506 Israeli, Israel killed 1327 minor vs 44 Israeli minor (since 2000 by btselem.org an Israeli source). this is an uneven and unfair conflict where Israel is fighting unarmed civilians, what a shame! Israel doesn't want peace, it's been increasing its settlement with the support of the US who's been using its veto every time (17 times since 1989). And..please define terrorism to me (please use a more reliable source than Wikipedia..) killing civilians, humiliating people through check points, taking people's homes and lands? well Israel does all that and is ridiculously described as "protecting itself". Protecting itself from who?? poor, unarmed people who only got their bodies to fight back! If we want to go back to origins, then maybe Native Americans should be conquering the American lands back and throw everybody out! Palestine is recognized by most countries of the world. it's a fact. For peace to be achieved both countries will have to co-exist. It is only fair for Palestinians to be represented in the UN as everyone else.
  • Sherry V. Pishner 2012/01/06 01:52:29
    NO - AGAINST THE MOTION
    Sherry V. Pishner
    +2
    I'm a 100% for Israel to keep their land and no to Palestian. God gave Israel that land!!!!!!!
  • michael Sherry ... 2012/01/07 01:50:00
    michael
    +2
    You are nuts....God gave Israel that Land????? Did the same God also decide on the holocaust? Oh wait god gave the land to the Jews but then decided that they should vacate the land for over 2000 years and and then come back again....you fruitcake.
  • Petri Ruotsalainen 2012/01/05 20:57:41
    NO - AGAINST THE MOTION
    Petri Ruotsalainen
    +5
    World doesn't need another dictatorship that supports terrorism.
  • Jo Ann knowles 2012/01/05 11:18:53
    NO - AGAINST THE MOTION
    Jo Ann knowles
    +5
    I'm against it! They should NOT be a full member state!
  • Shelia 2012/01/05 08:35:17
    NO - AGAINST THE MOTION
    Shelia
  • TB 2012/01/05 08:14:41
    NO - AGAINST THE MOTION
    TB
    +1
    The people of Israel have been there since the time of Jesus Christ, the the Terrorist Palestinians have not. They constantly bomb and terrorize Israel with their suicide bombers and rockets. If anything the UN should give Israel munitions and bombs to wipe out the thugs of Palestine and maybe then they could go about the business of peace. If the UN members are STUPID enough to let Palestine in then the US should get out of the UN and get the UN out of the US. Tell me how the Palestinians fit any part of this piece of the UN Charter, they don't. :


    PREAMBLE
    WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED
    to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and
    to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and
    to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and
    to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,
    AND FOR THESE ENDS
    to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbors, and
    to unite our strength to maintain international...

    The people of Israel have been there since the time of Jesus Christ, the the Terrorist Palestinians have not. They constantly bomb and terrorize Israel with their suicide bombers and rockets. If anything the UN should give Israel munitions and bombs to wipe out the thugs of Palestine and maybe then they could go about the business of peace. If the UN members are STUPID enough to let Palestine in then the US should get out of the UN and get the UN out of the US. Tell me how the Palestinians fit any part of this piece of the UN Charter, they don't. :


    PREAMBLE
    WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED
    to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and
    to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and
    to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and
    to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,
    AND FOR THESE ENDS
    to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbors, and
    to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and
    to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and
    to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples,
    (more)
  • A. Morgan. 2012/01/04 21:24:56
    NO - AGAINST THE MOTION
    A. Morgan.
    +5
    It would be disastrous to the peace process.
  • Razoreye001 2011/11/28 23:40:41
    YES - FOR THE MOTION
    Razoreye001
    I take a third option- it should be recognized as the state of Canaan.
  • Rob Razorey... 2012/01/12 21:28:03
    Rob
    +4
    I agree, provided the Arabs give them the land for it from the huge territories they have.Call it payback for how they treated the 'Palestinians' and the almost one million Jews they ethnically cleansed after1948
  • Hobbitt / Oldsquid 2011/11/28 22:47:48
    NO - AGAINST THE MOTION
    Hobbitt / Oldsquid
    +6
    There's no such thing as "Palestine"
    "Palestine" is the name that the Romans gave to the land of Israel when they conquered this land 2000 years ago and Wikipedia explains (Israel) :
    It was during this time that the Romans gave the name Syria Palaestina to the geographic area, in an attempt to erase Jewish ties to the land. The Mishnah and Jerusalem Talmud, two of Judaism's most important religious texts, were composed in the region during this period. The Muslims conquered the land from the Byzantine Empire in 638 CE. The area was ruled by various Muslim states (interrupted by the rule of the Crusaders) before becoming part of the Ottoman Empire in 1517.
    And also the Greeks prior to the Romans:

    Abba Eban wrote in his book 'My nation - The history of the nation of Israel' in page 64 that the Greek historian Herodotos used the name 'Palestina', that is 'Pleshet', for the first time as a complete name for all the land of Israel while in the past it referred only to the populated areas of the Philistines themselves.

    Abba Eban added that the Philistines, who settled down in the shore area, were the first ones with whom the Greek invaders encountered thus the Greeks called all the land in the name of the Philistines.

    There was never in the history of the world a "Palestinian"...























































































    There's no such thing as "Palestine"
    "Palestine" is the name that the Romans gave to the land of Israel when they conquered this land 2000 years ago and Wikipedia explains (Israel) :
    It was during this time that the Romans gave the name Syria Palaestina to the geographic area, in an attempt to erase Jewish ties to the land. The Mishnah and Jerusalem Talmud, two of Judaism's most important religious texts, were composed in the region during this period. The Muslims conquered the land from the Byzantine Empire in 638 CE. The area was ruled by various Muslim states (interrupted by the rule of the Crusaders) before becoming part of the Ottoman Empire in 1517.
    And also the Greeks prior to the Romans:

    Abba Eban wrote in his book 'My nation - The history of the nation of Israel' in page 64 that the Greek historian Herodotos used the name 'Palestina', that is 'Pleshet', for the first time as a complete name for all the land of Israel while in the past it referred only to the populated areas of the Philistines themselves.

    Abba Eban added that the Philistines, who settled down in the shore area, were the first ones with whom the Greek invaders encountered thus the Greeks called all the land in the name of the Philistines.

    There was never in the history of the world a "Palestinian" nation.

    There was never in the history of the world a "Palestinian" state.

    There was never in the history of the world a "Palestinian" kingdom.

    There were never in the history of the world "Palestinian" kings.

    There was never in the history of the world a "Palestinian" capital.

    There was never in the history of the world a "Palestinian" essence.

    There was never in the history of the world a "Palestinian" heritage.

    There was never in the history of the world a "Palestinian" culture.

    The "Palestinians" are ARABS who were brought to the region by the Ottoman empire as part of the Muslim occupation in the region and later on also by the British who entered masses of Arabs from the surroundings while closing Israel to its genuine owners. Arabs from countries like Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Yemen emigrated to Israel in the beginning of the 20th century to look for employment (due to the development of this land by the Judean inhabitants) while pretending to be living in Israel "for thousands of years..." These Arabs are definitely not the tribes from Crete who settled down in the 5 cities of Gaza strip after the Exodus of Israel from Egypt. These tribes were called Philistines and they weren't Arabs at all and the nowadays "Palestinians" are definitely not their descendants. The Philistines don't exist as a nation nowadays.

    There's no "Palestinian" nation but an ARAB one which went out of the Arabian Peninsula and occupied dozens of lands, including the land of Israel.

    According to the Israeli Wikipedia the Arabs who were living in the land of Israel started to call themselves "Palestinians" only after the establishment of Israel in 1948 and prior to it they called themselves just 'Arabs' and this is how they called their organizations ('Arab Higher Committee') and their struggles ('The Great Arab Revolt') and nicknamed the land of Israel in different names such as 'Southern Syria'.

    Zuheir Mohsen is widely known for having made the following statement in a March 1977 interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw:
    "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

    For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."
    There was an Israeli state in the land of Israel 2000 years before the prophet of Islam dreamt that he's flying on a "magical horse" from Mecca to Jerusalem.

    There was an Israeli nation in the land of Israel.

    There was an Israeli kingdom in the land of Israel.

    There were Israeli kings in the Israeli kingdom of Israel.

    There was an Israeli capital in the kingdom of Israel.

    There was and there is an Israeli essence.

    There was and there is an Israeli heritage.

    There was and there is an Israeli culture.

    Israel isn't just a name of a state. It's first and for all a name of a nation (Am Yisrael). Israel is the name of the father of the nation (Jacob) and Israelis are his descendants. The real meaning of the word 'Israeli' is someone who belongs to the nation of Israel and not only "a citizen of a state called Israel". The word 'Israeli' (Yisraeli) is mentioned in the Torah and we use it in Hebrew till this day. Yisraelim in plural.

    Don't say "Jews", say Judeans. Yehudi in Hebrew is Judean in English, not "Jew". "Jews" is a mockery word for Judeans. The word 'Judeans' was invented by gentiles. When the Persians, the Greeks and the Romans conquered the land of Israel they called all the Israelis in the name 'Judeans' because at those days the tribe of Judah was the biggest and the dominant tribe which survived the exile of Assyria in which 10 tribes of Israel were exiled. The tribe of Judah lived in the Judean desert thus the gentiles who occupied the land of Israel called the members of this tribe (and also the ones of Benjamin and Levi who joined it) in the name 'Judeans'.

    When Israelis (Judeans) who live abroad go to synagogue they don't read about Judeans and not about "Jews" in the prayer books nor in the Torah but about 'The Nation of Israel', 'The Children of Israel', 'The House of Israel', 'Israeli', 'Shema Yisrael', etc. They are Israelis because they belong to the nation of Israel even if they aren't citizens of a state called Israel. Both of the words 'Judeans' and 'Israelis' refer to nationality, to ethnic identity and not to religion. Judeans are members of the tribe of Judah and not "people who believe in Judaism". And the nation isn't called Judah but Israel, and so does the land and in the future the 10 tribes will return to this nation.

    Israelity ("Judaism") isn't a "religion" but a historical national covenant between G-d and the Israelis.

    That's why Arab citizens of Israel don't define themselves as Israelis but as Arab/"Palestinian" citizens of a state CALLED Israel. They aren't members of the Israeli nation but of the Ishmaelite nation. Ishmael used to shoot arrows at Isaac (father of Israel) while saying: "I'm only playing..." That's why there's no "Israeli-Palestinian conflict" but a WAR that the Ishmaelites/Arabs opened on the Israelis. Also Muhammad murdered Israelis in Saudi Arabia who refused to accept his murderous pagan dream.

    That's why we should say: End the Arab occupation in the land of Israel!

    Couple of facts that the haters of Israel don't like:

    Israel became a state in 1312 B.C., two millennia before Islam.

    Arab refugees from Israel began calling themselves "Palestinians" in 1967, two decades after (modern) Israeli statehood in 1948.

    After conquering the land in 1272 B.C., Israelis ruled it for a thousand years and maintained a continuous presence there for 3,300 years.

    The only Arab rule following conquest in 633 B.C. lasted just 22 years.

    For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem was the Israeli capital. It was never the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even under Jordanian rule, (East) Jerusalem was not made the capital, and no Arab leader came to visit it.

    Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Tanach, but not once is it mentioned in the Qur'an.

    King David founded Jerusalem; Mohammed never set foot in it.

    Israelis pray facing Jerusalem; Muslims face Mecca. If they are between the two cities, Muslims pray facing Mecca, with their backs to Jerusalem.

    In 1948, Arab leaders urged their people to leave, promising to cleanse the land of Israeli presence. 68% of them fled without ever setting eyes on an Israeli soldier.

    Virtually the entire Israeli population of Muslim countries had to flee as the result of violence and pogroms.

    Some 630,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948, while close to a million Israelis were forced to leave the Muslim countries.

    In spite of the vast territories at their disposal, Arab refugees were deliberately prevented from assimilating into their host countries. Of 100 million refugees following World War 2, they are the only group to have never integrated with their co-religionists. Most of the Israeli refugees from Europe and Arab lands were settled in Israel, a country no larger than New Jersey, USA.

    There are 22 Muslim countries, not counting "Palestine". There is only one Israeli state.

    Fatah and Hamas constitutions still call for the destruction of Israel.

    During the Jordanian occupation, Israeli holy sites were vandalized and were off limits to Israelis. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian holy sites are accessible to all faiths.

    The U.N. was silent when the Jordanians destroyed 58 synagogues in the old city of Jerusalem. It remained silent while Jordan systematically desecrated the ancient Israeli cemetery on the Mount of Olives, and it remained silent when Jordan enforced apartheid laws preventing Israelis from accessing the temple mount and western wall.

    Arabs started all five wars against Israel, and lost every one of them.
    (more)
  • Yonah Hobbitt... 2012/01/05 08:04:51
    Yonah
    +2
    Sma Israel! Adonai eloheinu Adonai echad. Baruch Shem Kavod Malchuto Leolam Vaed.
  • michael Hobbitt... 2012/01/06 23:16:36
    michael
    +4
    You are full of BS.....you have no clue what you are talking about and have obviously used you ctrl c and ctrl v to paste some nonsense written by by someone even more idiotic than you. Your dumb ass argument would make the USA an illegitimate state. Israel continues its genocide of the Palestinian people, whilst using the holocaust as a shield to hide the horrors of their war crimes and claiming that the world wants to wipe out Jews. Well in the words of Cynthia Ozick, "if the world wants to wipe out the Jews...... The world has always wanted to wipe out the Jews.....If all the world wants the Jews dead, truly the wonder is that they are still alive.....and unlike much of humanity, not exactly starving".
    You have no knowledge of history as demonstrated by your stupidity in your post and your arguments stinks of an APAC member. You mug.
  • Hobbitt... michael 2012/01/06 23:34:19
    Hobbitt / Oldsquid
    +1
    Screw You and the Murderous Arabs there is not now nor will there ever be a such thing and Palestineians ...more like palosimians if the UN admits them I would advocate the fire bombing of the UN after all that is what the Arabs are doing every day to innocent Israeli children so screw you and every other Anti Semitic Son of a bitch on the plabet...1.5 billion Muslims 17 million Jews and you cannot leave us alone I hope you die tomorrow.l
  • Biggerjake Hobbitt... 2012/01/07 09:18:39
    Biggerjake
    +3
    Leave you alone? You loser! It is the Israelis who should leave the Palestinians alone.

    Why does there need to be a Jewish state? So Israel can "legally" persecute the non-Jews?

    How about if we declare the US a Christian state and drive out everyone from all other religions, including the Jews? How would that be any different?
  • Hobbitt... Biggerjake 2012/01/07 15:24:20
    Hobbitt / Oldsquid
    +1
    There was always a Jewish state even before there was a Mooselime....They want nothing but the total destruction of ALL the JEWS on the planet..it is not enough for them that there are 1.5 BILLION of the scumbag bombers and only 17 million Jews because their grand Mufti was in league with Hitler..Now they want to finish the JUB..SCREW you and ALL MUSLIM HATERS...
  • Rob michael 2012/01/12 21:29:37
    Rob
    +3
    Trust me Hobbit..if it really was genocide, the 'Palestinians' would be just a memeory today. You really are clueless.
  • none 2011/11/28 19:51:41
    NO - AGAINST THE MOTION
    none
    +4
    There never was a palestine and until the 1967 war there never were palestinians.
    Then there 's the fact that the UN SUCKS.
  • Dale 2011/11/28 19:15:46
    NO - AGAINST THE MOTION
    Dale
    +5
    And I quote from UN Charter:


    PREAMBLE
    WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED
    to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and
    to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and
    to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and
    to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,
    AND FOR THESE ENDS
    to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours, and
    to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and
    to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and
    to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples,

    And I would continue to vote "No" until Palestiians kinna' get with the program. Not that the current members, all members, are much better.
  • misterz 2011/11/28 19:02:33
    NO - AGAINST THE MOTION
    misterz

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