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The real game-changer in "Obamacare". Good thing or bad thing?

Heptarch 2012/07/04 13:39:10
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/12/02/the-bomb-bur...
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  • ProudProgressive 2012/07/04 13:54:37
    Good thing (explain)
    ProudProgressive
    +10
    One of the biggest reasons the cost of health care in this nation has skyrocketed, and made the United States by far the most expensive industrialized nation in which to get health care, is corporate greed. Unlike every other country, which have outlawed the very concept of a for-profit primary care system, the American health care industry has been based on a fatally flawed model from the start - they are an industry which can only make a profit by denying its customers the very thing that they pay the industry for. By denying coverage, the industry profits.

    The Health Care Reform Law does not solve the problem. But it does force the industry to change their m.o. and actually spend most of their money on the service they are supposed to provide, and that is a very, very good thing. This year alone the American public will receive more than a billion dollars in rebates because of this provision.

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  • Heptarch Steve 2012/07/04 14:17:00
    Heptarch
    +1
    Agreed.
  • Idiot repubs 2012/07/04 14:08:03
    Good thing (explain)
    Idiot repubs
    +3
    Good by to 8 figure CEO bonuses.
  • Heptarch Idiot r... 2012/07/04 14:09:55
    Heptarch
    +4
    Here's hoping. I've always thought it was more than a bit shady for companies to make a profit off the health of citizens. Hopefully Obamacare is the death knell of that.
  • Wahvlvke 2012/07/04 14:04:31
    Bad thing (explain)
    Wahvlvke
    +2
    The carefully orchestrated death of private health insurance will lead to the govt. run single payer debacle and all that "free" health care won't be worth a crap.
  • Heptarch Wahvlvke 2012/07/04 14:06:47
    Heptarch
    +4
    Why does everyone keep talking about universal health care as if it's free? It's not free. People have to pay for it. And it DOES work.
  • mich52 Heptarch 2012/07/04 14:44:22
    mich52
    +2
    Because so many Cons. on here are just dishonest.
  • lstl5 Heptarch 2012/07/04 15:06:19
    lstl5
    +2
    I tried to respond to Wahvlvke but he has blocked me. Ask him why France is number one in healthcare if the govt run healthcare is so bad. I would much rather pay to the govt than to private insurance.
  • Wahvlvke Heptarch 2012/07/04 19:59:20
  • Heptarch Wahvlvke 2012/07/04 15:13:26
    Heptarch
    +1
    "I tried to respond to Wahvlvke but he has blocked me. Ask him why France is number one in healthcare if the govt run healthcare is so bad. I would much rather pay to the govt than to private insurance."

    Respond or don't.
  • Wahvlvke Heptarch 2012/07/04 20:03:08
    Wahvlvke
    Well ... blue face blocked me. I don't block unless I have been blocked. Just who rated French health care number one? Did it start with World? If so ... BS. Just why do so many people come here from all over tthe globe for their health care? Ever think about that?
  • Heptarch Wahvlvke 2012/07/05 15:30:33
    Heptarch
    So your argument is that no one but America can judge what is good?
  • Wahvlvke Heptarch 2012/07/06 13:26:06
    Wahvlvke
    I'm saying that those orgs. beginning with 'World' have an agenda that takes precedent over all else. Therefore their opinions are not worth the paper I wipe my ass with. Any other questions?
  • Heptarch Wahvlvke 2012/07/06 14:36:38
    Heptarch
    No, I think that pretty much sums up your prejudice. Thanks.
  • Wahvlvke Heptarch 2012/07/07 04:16:00
    Wahvlvke
    Why would you label as prejudice standing up against a bunch of third world pissheads who only want someone else to foot all their bills?
  • Heptarch Wahvlvke 2012/07/07 06:21:16
    Heptarch
    Because you judge everything outside the US as worthless. That's about as prejudicial as it's possible to get.
  • Wahvlvke Heptarch 2012/07/07 11:34:02
    Wahvlvke
    That is your erroneous assumption. Just that collection called the UN and their "World" organizations that are designed to extract Us money for their stupid ideas. And ... having been to over 40 countries and done projects in about 28 I can tell you there is a lot of stupid and a lot of worthless out there.
  • Jackie G - Poker Playing Pa... 2012/07/04 13:57:15
    Bad thing (explain)
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +2
    Rick, like many, believes that single payer system is a good thing. We can look around the world and see exactly what it has done for the economy in every country that has it and it ain't good.
  • Heptarch Jackie ... 2012/07/04 14:00:38
    Heptarch
    +4
    That's completely untrue. 8 of the top 10 happiest countries in the world have universal health care and their economies are doing just fine.
  • Jackie ... Heptarch 2012/07/04 14:12:47
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +2
    Spain, Italy, Greece, England, France - are not fine, are not happy and I do not give a damn about "happy" countries the size of a walnut or with any people who purposely set all expectations low as with Finland so they can be taken care of by government.

    I prefer freedom to slavery even if the chains of slavery are covered in velvet and sold as a good - Obamacare is telling us all that poison is good for us and pushed by those who prefer to control the population at its most basic level. Nothing more and nothing less
  • Heptarch Jackie ... 2012/07/04 14:15:22
    Heptarch
    +2
    You prefer being a slave to for-profit insurance companies, then. Your choice.
  • Jackie ... Heptarch 2012/07/04 14:21:04
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +1
    Never been one - has several different companies (job changes), never been denied a claim, never cancelled, and all things said to be covered were covered. I know not a single person who ever had a problem with their insurance, not a single person and I have lived in 7 states.
  • Heptarch Jackie ... 2012/07/04 14:23:35
    Heptarch
    +2
    Must be nice. I know three just off the top of my head. And I'm sure a cursory investigation into my friends and family would be about the same.
  • Jackie ... Heptarch 2012/07/04 14:36:24
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +2
    Depends on what they say vs the facts. Think of that young boy standing at the signing of this crap bill - he was told his mother would have lived with this bill (gross child abuse in my opinion) - his mother refused chemo treatments, she was not denied them.

    I sat on a jury, the wife was suing her husbands company - he had been diagnosed with testicular cancer and lost his job after some period of time and with it his insurance. She maintained it was the companies fault and the insurance companies because he succumbed to the cancer. We had the medical record in the jury room and there it was - he refused chemo and surgery -- chemo made him sick and cutting off his testis was out of the question, the hospital/clinic had him submit his rejection in writing. She lost the case - after the trial and on TV, she declared that the insurance company and the company were a perfect example of the broken health care system and how it abuses people.

    Are there some few abuses, of course - there are small firms out there that should not exist. Is the insurance industry as a whole bad - hell no
  • Heptarch Jackie ... 2012/07/04 14:41:53
    Heptarch
    +1
    They don't have to abuse everyone to be bad. If they abuse a significant enough minority, that's enough. I've always felt like the health of American citizens shouldn't be treated like a commodity to be weighed against a bottom line. That's just evil.
  • Jackie ... Heptarch 2012/07/04 14:57:10
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +2
    It never has been weighed against a bottom line, people bought a policy (or their company) and terms.

    Now we are all a commodity, the committees and boards ( roughly 185 at last count generated by this bill) will decide ones usefulness (tax paying ability) and determine health care. Now that is real evil
  • Heptarch Jackie ... 2012/07/04 15:48:43
    Heptarch
    +1
    "It never has been weighed against a bottom line, people bought a policy (or their company) and terms. "

    That's nonsense. People buy insurance because they expect to be covered when they need it. And insurance companies look for any way to deny them that coverage.
  • Jackie ... Heptarch 2012/07/04 17:54:02
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    No they do not - they pay for coverage - watching too many movies ma dear.
  • Heptarch Jackie ... 2012/07/04 18:00:03
    Heptarch
    Let me make sure I understand your argument here. You're saying that insurance companies pay for coverage for everyone who deserves it? You're saying, here and now, that they haven't denied coverage to people based on the most ludicrous and crass justifications?
  • Jackie ... Heptarch 2012/07/04 18:02:57
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    No I did not say that - I was answering your ludicrous point that they look for ways to deny coverage on policies.
  • Heptarch Jackie ... 2012/07/04 18:05:02
    Heptarch
    +1
    But they DO! Not for everyone, of course. I would never claim that. But there are reams and reams of examples of them denying coverage to customers based on the flimsiest, most banal pretexts. If you want to see ludicrous, you need look no further.
  • Jackie ... Heptarch 2012/07/04 18:11:46
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    Not even a percentage worth noting - sorry, real facts just do not support this argument. I know you think that even one is too many - given this premise, Canada should shut down their HC program - people fleeing here to get MRIs and life saving surgery damn near every day. Why? because they prefer to live than die waiting for the single payer system to get care. They come to our doctors and our hospitals and then go home well. People fly here from all over the world to get immediate care that they cannot get under these universal plans. Why anyone wants us to follow in those foot steps is beyond me.


    T Sowell
  • Heptarch Jackie ... 2012/07/04 18:14:42
    Heptarch
    "Not even a percentage worth noting - sorry, real facts just do not support this argument"

    I think the fact that pretty much everyone knows someone who has been either denied coverage or given the runaround says everything I need to know. A vast majority of Americans feel that the system needs reformation.

    As for the rest, you're working under the mistaken assumption that there won't be a for-profit health care industry for those who want it. There will. This is about insurance companies/policies, not actual health care providers.
  • Jackie ... Heptarch 2012/07/04 18:18:16
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    I repeat - lived in 7 states and have never known a single person denied coverage, not one.
  • Heptarch Jackie ... 2012/07/04 18:41:16
    Heptarch
    Then you're lucky. I repeat, I've known three over the past ten years.
  • Dana Heptarch 2012/07/04 20:12:43
    Dana
    Here is a story you can pass on to that twit above.. (who has me blocked)... have friends who love Limbaugh, Fox news, whole 9 yards. On Limbaughs show, he was promoting an insurance policy for self employed people. This was about 5 years ago. My friends trusted Limbaughs advice and bought this policy, and all the quirks.. it would cover all medical, even cover if they could not work due to injury, you name it... and they paid through the nose for this.

    Later after a year of so of paying premiums, the man is in a tragic accident, broken neck. He is in the ICU, needs surgery to stabilize and fix what they can, but have to wait a few days for the rest of him to stabilize. Wife comes to see hubby at hospital only to find him outside in a wheel chair, waiting for her to arrive. He was parked out there, literally, by the hospital staff. His insurance had decided to deny any further care, surgery, anything for him. So, they dumped him out on the sidewalk. Wife had to try and get him into her truck on her own and get him home. Had to get him into the house on her own. No help, no meds, no nothing... just a husband, with a broken neck and partial paralysis. She had to do all his care herself, fly by the seat of her pants, because insurance had flat out decided to deny care for the he...





    Here is a story you can pass on to that twit above.. (who has me blocked)... have friends who love Limbaugh, Fox news, whole 9 yards. On Limbaughs show, he was promoting an insurance policy for self employed people. This was about 5 years ago. My friends trusted Limbaughs advice and bought this policy, and all the quirks.. it would cover all medical, even cover if they could not work due to injury, you name it... and they paid through the nose for this.

    Later after a year of so of paying premiums, the man is in a tragic accident, broken neck. He is in the ICU, needs surgery to stabilize and fix what they can, but have to wait a few days for the rest of him to stabilize. Wife comes to see hubby at hospital only to find him outside in a wheel chair, waiting for her to arrive. He was parked out there, literally, by the hospital staff. His insurance had decided to deny any further care, surgery, anything for him. So, they dumped him out on the sidewalk. Wife had to try and get him into her truck on her own and get him home. Had to get him into the house on her own. No help, no meds, no nothing... just a husband, with a broken neck and partial paralysis. She had to do all his care herself, fly by the seat of her pants, because insurance had flat out decided to deny care for the hell of it. She spent hours on the phone daily fighting w/ insurance companies, hospitals and attorneys, and her hubby just laid there on the couch because she could not even get him into the bedroom.. up stairs... not possible.

    he eventually got better, never back to normal, but he did improve, no thanks to the insurance company he had faithfully paid for and paid well to.

    Last I heard, they were still worried about losing their home. The hospital had come after them for the amount of time he had been in the ICU and it was more than their entire property was worth. Wife went into a deep depression, and she just plain shut out the world and I have not been able to reach her since.

    BTW.. this was in AZ.
    (more)
  • dallas Jackie ... 2012/07/04 14:30:20
  • Jackie ... dallas 2012/07/04 14:38:37
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +1
    Grow up dallas, read the article and then comment - You really have become boring
  • Space I... Jackie ... 2012/07/04 15:36:50
    Space Invader
    +1
    company line man all the way Dallas is.....a mutant
  • dallas Space I... 2012/07/04 16:46:18
  • Steve Jackie ... 2012/07/04 14:11:14
    Steve
    +5
    They pay about half as much per capita in total healthcare spending, with better health outcomes. Ditching the for-profit insurers is better for everyone.

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