Quantcast

The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government." Patrick Henry Agree? (Please indicate political view, Dem, Repub etc,)

CAPISCE 2013/02/23 13:49:40
Agree, I'm a .......
disagree, I'm a ......
You!
Add Photos & Videos
Add a comment above

Top Opinion

Sort By
  • Most Raves
  • Least Raves
  • Oldest
  • Newest
Opinions

  • EdDarrell 2013/04/10 07:04:57
    disagree, I'm a ......
    EdDarrell
    Patrick Henry did not say that. You've been handed a bogus quote, voodoo history. Henry opposed the Constitution completely, and he never would have defended it with praise like that: http://timpanogos.wordpress.c...
  • CAPISCE EdDarrell 2013/04/10 14:24:37 (edited)
    CAPISCE
    You and Pat were old buddies, must be-- you claim to know what the man was thinking
  • EdDarrell CAPISCE 2013/04/23 15:06:26
    EdDarrell
    Yes, Pat and I are old friends. You could read his stuff, too, you know.

    My claims are based on Henry's writings, speeches, and actions. I'm responding to stuff that is bogus history. Real history is always better.
  • CAPISCE EdDarrell 2013/04/26 21:14:08 (edited)
    CAPISCE
    +1
    So you feel the Founding Fathers and patriots of the early days of America did not base all there philosophy's on limited Government ?
  • EdDarrell CAPISCE 2013/06/15 15:51:59
    EdDarrell
    +1
    Capisce, have you yet read the link?

    Madison wrote that the Constitution is limited government, and rights not delegated to the government remain with the people, and tasks not delegated to the government generally cannot be done -- of course, he wrote that in defense of not needing a Bill of Rights, which he later wrote and passed.

    Madison and Washington both wrote of the need of people to limit themselves, to make the Constitution work. Madison and Jefferson both advocated citizen involvement as he only sure path of limiting government and making the Constitution work.

    Technically, yes, the founders (not Patrick Henry) would tend to agree that the Constitution is a limit on government encroachment on individual rights. But more critically, they would point out that it is a plan for government, and not simply a restraint of action. The hoax quote attributed to Henry rather ignores the entire issue of enumerated duties spelled out for the various branches of government.

    The Constitution is not anti-government, not anti-regulation, not anti-tax. It is protective of individual rights, and sometimes THAT requires government that is not so limited as the neo-Tea Party and most self-proclaimed libertarians would like.

    The poll starts from a false supposition, and asks a "yes-or-no" answer where an essay response is the only correct way to go.
  • EdDarrell CAPISCE 2013/09/18 15:36:03
    EdDarrell
    Especially not George Washington. One of Washington's chief motivations in pushing for the Constitution was to get a national government to regulate trade disputes between the states, and to get a powerful national government that could open the west to development. Washington had two reasons.

    First, Washington thought Americans descended from European colonists should expand westward, populating the continent with farms, towns and cities much more like Europe. Washington had a clear "manifest destiny" vision, though he didn't call it that. He thought it was wise spreading of civilization, a contributor to peace, and a way to uplift all peoples in the world.

    Second, he had 17,000 acres in the Ohio Valley that he wanted to sell to settlers. To get settlers out to the Ohio Valley to buy his land from him, he thought there needed to be a strong national government that could rope the various states with claims out there (and after the revolution, the states in joint action) into cooperating to create a road for commerce into and out of the area, to make for orderly disposal of the lands and settlement there, and to protect settlers from English, French, Spanish or Native American resistance.

    Not at all did the early founders base all their philosophies on an idea of limited g...
    Especially not George Washington. One of Washington's chief motivations in pushing for the Constitution was to get a national government to regulate trade disputes between the states, and to get a powerful national government that could open the west to development. Washington had two reasons.

    First, Washington thought Americans descended from European colonists should expand westward, populating the continent with farms, towns and cities much more like Europe. Washington had a clear "manifest destiny" vision, though he didn't call it that. He thought it was wise spreading of civilization, a contributor to peace, and a way to uplift all peoples in the world.

    Second, he had 17,000 acres in the Ohio Valley that he wanted to sell to settlers. To get settlers out to the Ohio Valley to buy his land from him, he thought there needed to be a strong national government that could rope the various states with claims out there (and after the revolution, the states in joint action) into cooperating to create a road for commerce into and out of the area, to make for orderly disposal of the lands and settlement there, and to protect settlers from English, French, Spanish or Native American resistance.

    Not at all did the early founders base all their philosophies on an idea of limited government. Jefferson noted that the best reason we have governments is to protect the rights of individuals. In most actions, government is limited. But in protecting individual rights, government was created to have enough power to protect individuals against rights invasions by other individual people, corporations, or nations.
    (more)
  • EdDarrell CAPISCE 2013/04/26 19:41:05
    EdDarrell
    Did you check out the link to get the facts?
  • CAPISCE EdDarrell 2013/06/15 20:03:27 (edited)
    CAPISCE
    +1
    They said a lot of things....including founding fathers on limited government  limited government  ben franklin limited government
  • EdDarrell CAPISCE 2013/06/17 19:37:21
    EdDarrell
    I find it interesting that you provide no citations to any of those Jefferson quotes.

    Are they bogus, too?
  • EdDarrell CAPISCE 2013/06/17 19:38:42
    EdDarrell
    First Jefferson quote is bogus: http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/11...
  • CAPISCE EdDarrell 2013/06/17 19:43:51
    CAPISCE
    Bilieve what you wish----you r an American in socialist Clothing
  • EdDarrell CAPISCE 2013/09/18 15:36:48
    EdDarrell
    Deny the facts as you wish. All tyrants and terrorists do.
  • EdDarrell CAPISCE 2013/06/17 19:41:19
    EdDarrell
    Oops. The second quote is bogus, too: http://www.monticello.org/sit...
  • EdDarrell CAPISCE 2013/06/17 19:58:15 (edited)
    EdDarrell
    At long last, you find a quote that is accurate -- almost. The third quote is not completely bogus; it's about the government supporting a new way to preserve flour. It's from a letter Jefferson wrote before the proposal of the U.S. Constitution, which is to say it refers to no great national government, but instead the defective government under the Articles of Confederation.

    A Mr. L'Hommande wrote to Jefferson, representing the Continental Congress in France, to ask that he help in spreading news of his invention and put the heft of the American government behind its distribution in America.

    Jefferson responded (see the quote in the sixth sentence):

    TO MONSIEUR L'HOMMANDE.

    Paris, August 9, 1787.

    Sir,—At the time you honored me with your letter of May the 31st, I was not returned from a journey I had taken into Italy. This circumstance, with the mass of business which had accumulated during my absence, must apologise for the delay of my answer. Every discovery which multiplies the subsistence of man, must be a matter of joy to every friend to humanity. As such, I learn with great satisfaction, that you have found the means of preserving flour more perfectly than has been done hitherto. But I am not authorized to avail my country of it, by making any offer for its communication....









    At long last, you find a quote that is accurate -- almost. The third quote is not completely bogus; it's about the government supporting a new way to preserve flour. It's from a letter Jefferson wrote before the proposal of the U.S. Constitution, which is to say it refers to no great national government, but instead the defective government under the Articles of Confederation.

    A Mr. L'Hommande wrote to Jefferson, representing the Continental Congress in France, to ask that he help in spreading news of his invention and put the heft of the American government behind its distribution in America.

    Jefferson responded (see the quote in the sixth sentence):

    TO MONSIEUR L'HOMMANDE.

    Paris, August 9, 1787.

    Sir,—At the time you honored me with your letter of May the 31st, I was not returned from a journey I had taken into Italy. This circumstance, with the mass of business which had accumulated during my absence, must apologise for the delay of my answer. Every discovery which multiplies the subsistence of man, must be a matter of joy to every friend to humanity. As such, I learn with great satisfaction, that you have found the means of preserving flour more perfectly than has been done hitherto. But I am not authorized to avail my country of it, by making any offer for its communication. Their policy is, to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits. Though the interposition of government, in matters of invention, has its use, yet it is in practice so inseparable from abuse, that they think it better not to meddle with it. We are only to hope, therefore, that those governments who are in the habit of directing all the actions of their subjects, by particular law, may be so far sensible of the duty they are under of cultivating useful discoveries, as to reward you amply for yours, which is among the most interesting to humanity. I have the honor to be, with great consideration and respect, Sir, your most obedient, and most humble servant.
    (see the Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Vol. VI)

    In issues of flour grinding, indeed, Jefferson said the government in 1787 does not interfere in the bread-making of men.

    Then we changed the government, explicitly granting Congress the power and duty to protect patents and copyrights (Jefferson opposed this).

    So, on issues of flour, prior to the creation of the United States, Thomas Jefferson believed in freedom of grinding and milling.

    Jefferson also believed in great study of history, so we could better know what really happened, so we could make good policies based on accurate information. Nice that you got 33% of the quotes almost right.

    Do you have any clue what Mr. L'Hommande did with his invention to make and preserve flour? Does it shed any light on Patrick Henry's distaste for the American Constitution?
    (more)
  • Casey 2013/03/22 07:23:42
    Agree, I'm a .......
    Casey
    +1
    Libertarian.
  • EdDarrell Casey 2013/04/10 07:05:42
    EdDarrell
    You're a misled libertarian. Henry didn't say that: http://timpanogos.wordpress.c...
  • kashmirknight 2013/02/24 14:14:42
  • princess 2013/02/24 03:46:43
    Agree, I'm a .......
    princess
    +1
    Constitutional Conservative
  • Mike 2013/02/24 00:13:18
    Agree, I'm a .......
    Mike
    +2
    The design of the US Constitution, the first of its kind, does not rule over the people, but embraces and protects the individual’s Unalienable Rights and instructs the government how to protect those Rights from the crimes of others and from the crimes of government.

    Constitutional Conservative.
  • kmay 2013/02/23 23:57:29 (edited)
    Agree, I'm a .......
    kmay
    +1
    But don't think he was the author. He opposed the constitution as he thought it took away too many liberties.

    Constitutional Conservative.
  • Jackie G - Poker Playing Pa... 2013/02/23 23:45:22
    Agree, I'm a .......
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +1
    I am a registered Independent -
  • Patriot Unit 2013/02/23 23:26:03
    Agree, I'm a .......
    Patriot Unit
    +1
    The problem is the the Progressives, Democrats, Liers, Socialists, Communists and Marxists in our government and country, have convinced all their Liberal supporters that the Constitution is worthless. And that the Government knows all and should control all.
  • EdDarrell Patriot... 2013/04/26 19:42:10
    EdDarrell
    +1
    Please, will you stop that disrespectful flag display? Upside down means you need someone to call 911. If that's not the case, it's desecration.

    Please fix.
  • convex 2013/02/23 22:40:55
    Agree, I'm a .......
    convex
    cat
  • Cn2012 2013/02/23 22:39:09
    Agree, I'm a .......
    Cn2012
    +1
    Absolutely agree with that statement. I'm a free loving American. Not affiliated with any political group.
  • tim 2013/02/23 20:57:50
    Agree, I'm a .......
    tim
    +1
    registered republican...Constitutional Conservative in truth
  • Stop Hillary 2016 2013/02/23 20:43:14
    Agree, I'm a .......
    Stop Hillary 2016
    +1
    Yes it is 100%
  • Haole 2013/02/23 19:46:18
    Agree, I'm a .......
    Haole
    +1
    I guess if i had to call myself anything I'd be most comfortable with libertarian.
  • E3 2013/02/23 17:49:52
    Agree, I'm a .......
    E3
    +2
    like-mind of John Locke.
  • frank 2013/02/23 17:04:08
    Agree, I'm a .......
    frank
    +2
    Independent favoring the Tea Party.
  • Peewee ~PWCM~ 2013/02/23 17:02:57
    Agree, I'm a .......
    Peewee ~PWCM~
    +2
    Conservative
  • J.L.Worley 2013/02/23 16:58:15
    Agree, I'm a .......
    J.L.Worley
    +4
    I'm 100% behind the Constitution and 100% against Obama's dictatorship.
  • Charles E 2013/02/23 16:46:03
    Agree, I'm a .......
    Charles E
    +4
    Libertarian.

    The founding fathers, many of whom could have profited from a stronger central government, chose instead to limit the powers of the government and maxamize the freedom of the people.
  • Bonita Colley 2013/02/23 16:32:56
    Agree, I'm a .......
    Bonita Colley
    +5
    Constitutional Thinker! I'm so sick and tired of the Dems and Repubs 2 party system thinking!!! Got out of that game years ago! Now it has come down to one of two thoughts: Tyranny or Constitution! People need to study their history to see what True Liberty Looks Like!!!! Nullification is the answer to the usurping Central Government and the states are catching on!
  • Not A C... Bonita ... 2013/02/23 18:37:19
    Not A Crybaby Richard <3Freedom!
    +1
    Agreed, we should vote more Libertarian, Constitutional, Green, Justice and Independent.

    (Not the Socialist/Commie party tho)
  • E3 Bonita ... 2013/02/24 05:31:12
    E3
    +1
    That's what I was saying to someone else awhile ago. The Constitution makes provision for multiple parties! Don't mindlessly go for one party or the other and vote for whoever one puts forth as their selection. Vote for who you see fit.
  • SonofSp... E3 2013/02/24 05:37:06
    SonofSpermcube
    Unfortunately, the power of an officeholder goes hand in hand with their party and the party dynamics of the legislative body in which they serve. Sometimes it is better for one's personal objectives and beliefs to vote tactically for or against a party more than the individual candidates. At the national level this is usually the case.
  • E3 SonofSp... 2013/02/24 14:10:44 (edited)
    E3
    Unfortunately that's true. But, still, unless the population as a whole does something to get things back on the right track (I mean legally, not in armed revolution), we're doomed to failure as a nation.
    People need to care about politics too, not just football!
  • Bonita ... E3 2013/02/25 20:52:34
    Bonita Colley
    Do you have a plan of action on this? I have been trying to educate people for a long time, sorry it isn't going to happen. Not until a "true crisis" people are not going to wake up! As for Armed Revolution, it may happen in this country again but as last resort. But unfortunately I see the government tripping the trigger on that one. Our education system has done the job they were given, to dumb down the citizens. Nullification is our Rightful Remedy to standing up against the government. Many states are catching on to this and now we will see where our states will stand..... With Central Government or We The People....
  • E3 Bonita ... 2013/02/25 21:22:15 (edited)
    E3
    +1
    My plan of action would be to contact people with like minds all over the place and get them to form PACs and link up with other people and take our collective power to vote for people we view as most conducive towards our betterment. The saying is 1 phone call = 1k people, so we'd also bombard our reps and tell them what we want. But people shouldn't just complain about the government and do nothing. If enough would step up to the plate, we'd get things done. However, I believe as you do, a true crisis (or crises) is the only way the population will get into action.

See Votes by State

The map above displays the winning answer by region.

News & Politics

2014/10/31 16:28:00

Hot Questions on SodaHead
More Hot Questions

More Community More Originals