My purpose behind this isn't to perpetuate divisions among libertarians, but to see how many of us (of all stripes) are here, how much larger the remnant has grown in recent years, and how much common ground we can find between seemingly disparate and feuding sub-groups. Just click the description that most closely resembles your own libertarian philosophy (or lack thereof), and feel free to comment. Most of all, have fun!
Awesome! Welcome to the dark side of the rabbit hole!
If you'd like, feel free to join this group of SH Voluntaryists we started a month or so ago. We don't have a ton of members yet, but it's a great little bunch, and every one is a principled anti-statist.
I would modify this a little and add that government, per se, is not in violation to the principle of voluntary actions. It is arbitrary government and government not consented to that is the problem. A government of consent, basically a government of voluntary contracts, as opposed to coercion (as the modern nation state, and most jurisdictions within it are set up) is consistent with Voluntaryism. So, in so far as I oppose the concept of the state, I am an Anarchist, and in so far as I uphold the concept of governance (though as a Voluntaryist, I support those who reject both), I am a Minarchist. I do lean right on a few issues, but then I lean left on others. I guess that goes for most libertarians when compared to the conventional spectrum.
That's a great answer, and very true. I have no problem with voluntary or "opt-in" governments/arrangements, as long as everyone who participates in them is doing so of their own free will and nobody outside of those contractual bonds are forced to fund them or obey their policies.
This is one reason why I avoid the term "Anarcho-Capitalist" like the plague, even though it perfectly describes my personal preferences. Real anarchy can't be hyphenated because there would be literally *hundreds* of varying consensual social experiments of all socioeconomic stripes. And that's a good thing.
On a lighter note, I'm incredibly encouraged to see how much Voluntaryist sentiment there is here! I was expecting far less representation for them on this survey.
I was surprised too. But when statism is the language of the day, it is no surprise that every discussion is tainted by it, which would explain why voluntaryists only come out of the woodwork when the subject itself comes up.
At the very most, I would seek a minarchist government incapable of arbitrary legislation and restrained by extremely paranoid checks and balances with teeth. Given our experience with the Constitution, I think it should be clear that anyone seeking to write another one must craft the language halfway from the point of view of a diabolical statist attacker seeking to subvert it, so any possible weaknesses are anticipated and accounted for.
That said, I see voluntaryism as a moral/ethical ideal, and I think it's worth experimenting with it when the time is right. I hold hope that done right, it could be a final end to the evils of government...and in this sense, I consider myself a voluntaryist at heart. At the same time, I do not demand it, because I do not demand absolute perfection...especially if the perfect becomes the enemy of the good: I'm also wary of the possibility that minarchists could be right, and voluntaryism could end up leading to another state (a non-minarchist one at that), especially if we were not culturally ready for it (which we currently are not!). Therefore, I would be perfectly happy with minarchy if I thought it would ultimately maximize individual liberty.
I am primarily a principled libertarian (deontological), but there are certain corners of an...
At the very most, I would seek a minarchist government incapable of arbitrary legislation and restrained by extremely paranoid checks and balances with teeth. Given our experience with the Constitution, I think it should be clear that anyone seeking to write another one must craft the language halfway from the point of view of a diabolical statist attacker seeking to subvert it, so any possible weaknesses are anticipated and accounted for.
That said, I see voluntaryism as a moral/ethical ideal, and I think it's worth experimenting with it when the time is right. I hold hope that done right, it could be a final end to the evils of government...and in this sense, I consider myself a voluntaryist at heart. At the same time, I do not demand it, because I do not demand absolute perfection...especially if the perfect becomes the enemy of the good: I'm also wary of the possibility that minarchists could be right, and voluntaryism could end up leading to another state (a non-minarchist one at that), especially if we were not culturally ready for it (which we currently are not!). Therefore, I would be perfectly happy with minarchy if I thought it would ultimately maximize individual liberty.
I am primarily a principled libertarian (deontological), but there are certain corners of anarcho-capitalism that I fear could become prohibitively dangerous on a utilitarian level. For instance, prisons would still be necessary for uncontrollably violent people (where no form of compensation-based justice would work), but a completely privatized justice system would have to be set up EXTREMELY carefully to ensure the prison owners' profit motive did not incentivize bastardization of the law to imprison more people, whether we're talking private law or a monopolistic NAP. So far, I have not found a completely privatized solution (without any form of monopolistic government or law) which fully alleviates my concerns. In some ways, I would be more comfortable with a non-coercively funded "government" based solely on the NAP and homestead principles, where the monopoly was limited solely to those principles. Such a system does not appear to be as, uh, "anarchic" as private law anarcho-capitalism, but it doesn't go so far as having a state either.
Ultimately, the people are the true limiting factor of any system of governance (with or without an explicit state): The US government is allowed to get away with what it has because the people allow it, and the people allow it because they either do not respect or do not properly understand the Constitution. If the Constitution had much stronger checks and balances - with teeth for zealous enforcement - people in the past may have been able to stop, reverse, and/or punish incremental expansion before it ever took hold and was allowed to accumulate, which would have also halted the gradual perversion of its "interpretation." At the same time, libertarians and allies have had great success utilizing the Constitution as an ideological rallying point, because so many of us have internalized a respect for it (as opposed to unlimited government, that is)...not enough of us to prevent what has happened, but enough that there is still hope. The most dangerous aspect of the state - and the potential saving grace of an anarchic system - is that people are indoctrinated and conditioned into believing the state is "special" and inherently justified in doing things that constituent individuals are not. A minarchist country that became voluntaryist through gradual dismantling of government might have the culture to reject this insidious justification, but there may be a catch as well: In order to maintain that culture of liberty, it may still be necessary to have a single codified document (such as a Constitution) to internalize, pass down, and rally behind. This could serve as a basis for courts, and a basis for which people could judge their legitimacy in perpetuity.
I'm not any kind of libertarian! Libertarians drive me nuts!!!
They've lost their way and the original intent of the party. If originated it today they would called the Tea Party.
Founder Dave Nolan was right of the Republican Party..he believed and was right, they had become moderates.
"As a youth he was an avid reader of science fiction, which led him to the writings of libertarian Robert Heinlein, the first major influence on his political thinking. Later, encountering Ayn Rand's writings helped cement his innate libertarianism."
In the early '60's there was virtually no libertarian movement as we know it today. Republican Barry Goldwater's 1964 presidential campaign, with its emphasis on limited government (aided by the fiery rhetoric of his libertarian speechwriter Karl Hess), was a natural draw for nascent libertarians looking to change the world. Dave was one of many libertarians attracted to that campaign.
He became a founding member of M.I.T. Students for Goldwater. Largely due to his efforts, the chapter rapidly grew to become the largest Youth for Goldwater chapter in New England. In recognition of this achievement Dave was appointed Vice-Chair of Massachusetts Youth for Goldwater.
Dave also became involved with the Liberty Amendment Committee, an organization working to repeal the federal income tax and get the federal governm...
They've lost their way and the original intent of the party. If originated it today they would called the Tea Party.
Founder Dave Nolan was right of the Republican Party..he believed and was right, they had become moderates.
"As a youth he was an avid reader of science fiction, which led him to the writings of libertarian Robert Heinlein, the first major influence on his political thinking. Later, encountering Ayn Rand's writings helped cement his innate libertarianism."
In the early '60's there was virtually no libertarian movement as we know it today. Republican Barry Goldwater's 1964 presidential campaign, with its emphasis on limited government (aided by the fiery rhetoric of his libertarian speechwriter Karl Hess), was a natural draw for nascent libertarians looking to change the world. Dave was one of many libertarians attracted to that campaign.
He became a founding member of M.I.T. Students for Goldwater. Largely due to his efforts, the chapter rapidly grew to become the largest Youth for Goldwater chapter in New England. In recognition of this achievement Dave was appointed Vice-Chair of Massachusetts Youth for Goldwater.
Dave also became involved with the Liberty Amendment Committee, an organization working to repeal the federal income tax and get the federal government out of all activities not specifically authorized by the U.S. Constitution.
The Libertarian movement has been infiltrate by the left to become Liberal lite. Its only purpose now is to siphon off votes from the Republican party so that the DemocRats can win national elections
It's not enough to say, "Oh, we'll stick to these functions because the Constitution put them in there." We should carefully examine what core functions the government ought to have, and then say: Those few, and no more!
A government's job is to manage force. Its proper functions all have to do with that. And they are three and only three:
Police
Military
Courts
It has taken a great deal of time to get to this point. But a minarchist society would keep taxes to a minimum. After that, a world in which the biggest trading companies field their own troops might look rather interesting.
Take the issue of health care, for example: I'm Team Kucinich (single payer) because as a libertarian I look and see that in half of all 1.4 million personal bankruptcies, the people were forced to file due to medical bills, and approximately 2 million others in their families were affected, including 700,000 children (this was for 2001 – this goes on year after every single year – link: http://www.consumeraffairs.co... ), and, worse than this, tens of millions of our people are without coverage altogether, or, if they did have coverage, could (before ObamaCare at least) be denied coverage for a pre-existing condition, which could be defined as just about anything. Such a situation should be unacceptable to libertarians, because liberty starts with the health and well-being of one's body; one's vehicle here on earth.
I don't like ObamaCare's mandate, which is unconstitutional regardless of what the SC has said, or its further wedding of large corporations to government. The *more* free market approach would have been what I'm advocating: A completely private system of health care practitioners (I would have done more even to strengthen that aspect, and to eliminate their red tape and government burden), but within the context of public funding, and to have that funding limit...
Take the issue of health care, for example: I'm Team Kucinich (single payer) because as a libertarian I look and see that in half of all 1.4 million personal bankruptcies, the people were forced to file due to medical bills, and approximately 2 million others in their families were affected, including 700,000 children (this was for 2001 – this goes on year after every single year – link: http://www.consumeraffairs.co... ), and, worse than this, tens of millions of our people are without coverage altogether, or, if they did have coverage, could (before ObamaCare at least) be denied coverage for a pre-existing condition, which could be defined as just about anything. Such a situation should be unacceptable to libertarians, because liberty starts with the health and well-being of one's body; one's vehicle here on earth.
I don't like ObamaCare's mandate, which is unconstitutional regardless of what the SC has said, or its further wedding of large corporations to government. The *more* free market approach would have been what I'm advocating: A completely private system of health care practitioners (I would have done more even to strengthen that aspect, and to eliminate their red tape and government burden), but within the context of public funding, and to have that funding limited to constitutional taxes (Kucinich's HR 676 plan consisted of a 3.7% payroll tax, and a 5% tax on the employer side. This is not much above what each pay now into Medicare, and it would have replaced – not been in addition to – it, and its full health, dental, eye and mental health coverage would have allowed people the freedom to go to the practice of their choice, with zero co-pays, zero deductibles, no worry ever over how they're going to pay their medical bills, no more being a slave to a job just because they can't port their health insurance... that alone would be a huge boost to free labor markets – if that is in fact what we're interested in.
Lastly, there is no doubt at all that this is within the power of The People to achieve and implement, should they want it, because we believe that people have the God-given right to free association. 'Public' isn't a dirty word – I myself don't even think in terms of 'public' and 'private'... those categories make no sense. In both cases, all we are dealing with are *people*; associations of *people*. My libertarianism requires only that
1) The associations – whether 'public' or 'private' – be as free as they can possibly be, for all, in consideration of their human – not divine – organization (that they be truly *self*-organized), and
2) We recognize that centralization is a two-edged sword – as much as centralization allows men to increase their living, their material achievements and comforts and to reduce their toil, does excessive centralization tend to sour and corrupt all that which is good in human self-organization.
My health care example here, hopefully, provides some insight into what I believe a proper balance might be.
I believe myself to be here at this point. I believe we need a Rule of Law and a central plan to announce those laws. But, I in no way see that need to be at the Federal level. I would be more supportive of this function at State and Local levels. I believe our Federal Government would not be here today without the ratification of our Bill of Rights. They kept the individual involved. With their demise so goes individual liberties. I believe securities and responsibilities can be best handled by the individual, but there has to be (although very limited) a system in place to protect interaction. In other words "Morals with a small dose of Reinforcement"
Edit: I think this is where Minarchist puts me. if not, please help me to "revise" my position.
I think your perspectives of what constitutes right wing and left wing are all mixed up, Liberal policy is liberal policy whether it comes to domestic social control or foreign involvement... So, as for the perspective of fiscal policy if you fail to comprehend the nature of the current monetary system and keep it within the prescribed constraints we will not function for very long as it is a FIAT system and does not represent a monetary system in which a true Libertarian System may function...
Given the descriptions, I'm somewhere between right-leaning and Constitutionalist. I am a Constitutionalist, but put myself on the right because I support what you refer to as militarism, and what I would call a forward defense.
I would be close to minarchist as well, except for that "system of courts" thing. We have seen for a long long time that governments cannot be trusted to own and run a "justice system".
We *may* want a federal government strictly for the purpose of defense and treaties & such, paid for by subscriptions tendered by the various states and voluntary insofar as the people are concerned, and for establishing a union of the various States, which states would retain all rights of sovereignty and secession, and prohibited from all manner of Force against the citizens.
FedGov should have absolutely NO powers whatsoever over the citizens.
The dangers remain within all "lower" levels of government; tackling that comes later, but you get my drift.
The federal government is the most obviously evil level of government, but the "lower" levels actually cause more harm in people's daily lives. That is why principle is so important. Once you understand the principles of voluntary interaction, it is much easier to apply them to all levels of government.
Founder Dave Nolan was right of the Republican Party..he believed and was right, they had become moderates. "As a youth he was an avid reader of science fiction, which led him to the writings of libertarian Robert Heinlein, the first major influence on his political thinking. Later, encountering Ayn Rand's writings helped cement his innate libertarianism." In the early '60's there was virtually no libertarian movement as we know it today. Republican Barry Goldwater's 1964 presidential campaign, with its emphasis on limited government (aided by the fiery rhetoric of his libertarian speechwriter Karl Hess), was a natural draw for nascent libertarians looking to change the world. Dave was one of many libertarians attracted to that campaign. He became a founding member of M.I.T. Students for Goldwater. Largely due to his efforts, the chapter rapidly grew to become the largest Youth for Goldwater chapter in New England. In recognition of this achievement Dave was appointed Vice-Chair of Massachusetts Youth for Goldwater. Dave also became involved with the Liberty Amendment Committee, an organization working to repeal the federal income tax and get the federal government out of all activities not specifically authorized by the U.S. Constitution."
The Libertarian movement has been infiltrate by the left to become Liberal lite. Its only purpose now is to siphon off votes from the Republican party so that the DemocRats can win national elections
I find myself wanting a combination of Constitutionalist and Minarchist. Our government has ignored the Constitution almost from the get-go, but nothing like it is ignored today. The Founding Fathers id have a marvelous notion when they wanted men of accomplishment to serve for a LIMITED period of time. The parasites that decided to make a career out of 'public-service' should be lined up and shot!
Our nation was really the worlds first experiment at Minarchy. Unfortunately what, to my view, it has proved is that any form of government, no matter how small initially, will grow exponentially as it increases in age. The only solution, to my point of view, is no government.
I agree with that, but as a practical matter voluntarism is easier for the resistant to accept. That would seem to require a Constitution (drastically tightened), and no matter how it's put, the Bill of Rights, which could use some rehab, because both are "habits". Try this draft on for size: http://no-ruler.net/new-const...
We agree fundamentally. I must point out that there will ALWAYS be somebody that wants to screw things up, so he winds up on top. This is where some centralized authority comes in to let the jerk know that the population at large does NOT agree. In our real-life situation, things went downhill when Congress decided that they could make careers out of power accumulation and dispense this power disparately. All of these career minded Congressmen, from the first one that stayed beyond 2 terms should be dug up and and shot for treason.
I wouldn't quite agree that the US has proven that minarchy cannot work: The checks and balances in the Constitution are quite weak and unenforceable, and in retrospect, the wording of powers was nowhere near defensive enough to prevent changes in language from perverting them. The Constitution's particular wording made it too easy to subvert, and its lack of teeth (or consequences for subverting it) let expansions of government power incrementally build upon each other without reversal and punishment.
I'd still consider the Constitution more of an early experiment in minarchy rather than its final failure. I could write a Constitution with extremely paranoid and vindictive checks and balances that put an entire "armory of Damocles" over anyone who dared to take public office, for instance. ;) On top of that, it could be made as difficult as necessary to pass arbitrary legislation (or impossible), and as easy as necessary (or trivial) for the public to repeal it. Technically speaking, you could have a minarchy without a legislative branch altogether...just courts and a bare-bones executive branch for the purpose of coordinating a national defense against a hostile state.
That's not to say voluntaryism wouldn't be preferable, and it's really the direction I hope humanity moves toward in the long run...but I still think a properly constructed minarchy could "work."
Great point! It's also been alleged by some antifederalist historical researchers that the Constitution was deliberately designed to be ineffectual at preventing government expansion. And of course, the wording of many amendments is certainly vague enough to leave all kinds of wiggle room for statists to read their own distorted meanings into "general welfare", "a well-regulated militia", and other phrases.
I haven't read it yet, but "Hologram of Liberty" by Boston T. Party is supposed to be a great book on this subject.
While I definitely think that the U.S. Constitution was a breakthrough moment in the history of government, I have to agree with Lysander Spooner that, at the end of the day, it has either overtly permitted the kind of tyranny we see now, or has been powerless to prevent it.
I'd be curious to hear evidence that the Constitution was deliberately sabotaged. I understand that Hamilton's "necessary and proper" clause may have been intended in this manner, but a lot of the most abused phrases and clauses would have sounded pretty innocuous at the time, because their meaning was clear.
Benjamin Franklin had some interesting words on the Constitution upon its initial completion: http://www.usconstitution.net... He seemed to believe that it was not the best Constitution possible, but the best that could actually be agreed upon by the delegates present. He was also well aware it would end in despotism, but he seemed to fear the consequences of immediate failure more. Even though the states were doing pretty well in "anarchic" years without an effective central government (and he once made a wry comment that the delegates at the convention had to hurry up before the people caught on ;)), I think he feared Britain especially would attempt to take over again, and that the people wouldn't care enough to fight them off again, which would prematurely end such a fledgling experiment in limited representative government.
We only know the consequences of the path that was actually taken for sure, so who knows if he might have been right? I'm sure that if they had t...
I'd be curious to hear evidence that the Constitution was deliberately sabotaged. I understand that Hamilton's "necessary and proper" clause may have been intended in this manner, but a lot of the most abused phrases and clauses would have sounded pretty innocuous at the time, because their meaning was clear.
Benjamin Franklin had some interesting words on the Constitution upon its initial completion: http://www.usconstitution.net... He seemed to believe that it was not the best Constitution possible, but the best that could actually be agreed upon by the delegates present. He was also well aware it would end in despotism, but he seemed to fear the consequences of immediate failure more. Even though the states were doing pretty well in "anarchic" years without an effective central government (and he once made a wry comment that the delegates at the convention had to hurry up before the people caught on ;)), I think he feared Britain especially would attempt to take over again, and that the people wouldn't care enough to fight them off again, which would prematurely end such a fledgling experiment in limited representative government.
We only know the consequences of the path that was actually taken for sure, so who knows if he might have been right? I'm sure that if they had the support of enough delegates, they might have been able to write a better Constitution: Eliminating slavery off the bat would likely have prevented the Civil War and Lincoln, which could have given us a lot longer before things totally fell apart. Nevertheless, I get the feeling that writing a Constitution that actually "worked" was beyond them. From their vantage point, they just didn't have enough historical perspective yet to write anything that wouldn't end in despotism...and whether or not he believed anything else was possible, Franklin seemed to know it. Given that, a British takeover and immediate loss of sovereignty might have legitimately seemed like a bigger threat than tyranny centuries down the road.
With the addition of the past two hundred years of hindsight, I think it's now quite possible to write a constitution that would actually work, but our real obstacle would be the same one that forced the Framers to keep slavery in the original Constitution: Even if the initial draft was impervious to internal subversion (by virtue of being written by someone sufficiently paranoid and precise), would the delegates be intelligent or wise enough to ratify it or constructively strengthen it, or would they be foolish enough to demand dilution?
hmm, I never got a right leaning libertarian vibe from Ayn Rand. Not sure why you used her pic for the right leaning libertarian option. I always thought she was a minarchist.
I admire Rand, but her exact point on the spectrum is kinda tough to pin down sometimes. On one hand, Galt's Gulch reads like an absolutely perfect libertarian society. But some of her quotes in later years about how the military should be used are somewhat troubling to me.
Then again, it's possible that I'm conflating her beliefs with those of her successors in the Objectivist movement like Leonard Peikoff and Yaron Brook - who really are out-and-out hawks on foreign policy - and if so, I apologize.
If you'd like, feel free to join this group of SH Voluntaryists we started a month or so ago. We don't have a ton of members yet, but it's a great little bunch, and every one is a principled anti-statist.
http://www.sodahead.com/unite...
This is one reason why I avoid the term "Anarcho-Capitalist" like the plague, even though it perfectly describes my personal preferences. Real anarchy can't be hyphenated because there would be literally *hundreds* of varying consensual social experiments of all socioeconomic stripes. And that's a good thing.
On a lighter note, I'm incredibly encouraged to see how much Voluntaryist sentiment there is here! I was expecting far less representation for them on this survey.
To the right, less government. To the left, more government.
That said, I see voluntaryism as a moral/ethical ideal, and I think it's worth experimenting with it when the time is right. I hold hope that done right, it could be a final end to the evils of government...and in this sense, I consider myself a voluntaryist at heart. At the same time, I do not demand it, because I do not demand absolute perfection...especially if the perfect becomes the enemy of the good: I'm also wary of the possibility that minarchists could be right, and voluntaryism could end up leading to another state (a non-minarchist one at that), especially if we were not culturally ready for it (which we currently are not!). Therefore, I would be perfectly happy with minarchy if I thought it would ultimately maximize individual liberty.
I am primarily a principled libertarian (deontological), but there are certain corners of an...
That said, I see voluntaryism as a moral/ethical ideal, and I think it's worth experimenting with it when the time is right. I hold hope that done right, it could be a final end to the evils of government...and in this sense, I consider myself a voluntaryist at heart. At the same time, I do not demand it, because I do not demand absolute perfection...especially if the perfect becomes the enemy of the good: I'm also wary of the possibility that minarchists could be right, and voluntaryism could end up leading to another state (a non-minarchist one at that), especially if we were not culturally ready for it (which we currently are not!). Therefore, I would be perfectly happy with minarchy if I thought it would ultimately maximize individual liberty.
I am primarily a principled libertarian (deontological), but there are certain corners of anarcho-capitalism that I fear could become prohibitively dangerous on a utilitarian level. For instance, prisons would still be necessary for uncontrollably violent people (where no form of compensation-based justice would work), but a completely privatized justice system would have to be set up EXTREMELY carefully to ensure the prison owners' profit motive did not incentivize bastardization of the law to imprison more people, whether we're talking private law or a monopolistic NAP. So far, I have not found a completely privatized solution (without any form of monopolistic government or law) which fully alleviates my concerns. In some ways, I would be more comfortable with a non-coercively funded "government" based solely on the NAP and homestead principles, where the monopoly was limited solely to those principles. Such a system does not appear to be as, uh, "anarchic" as private law anarcho-capitalism, but it doesn't go so far as having a state either.
Ultimately, the people are the true limiting factor of any system of governance (with or without an explicit state): The US government is allowed to get away with what it has because the people allow it, and the people allow it because they either do not respect or do not properly understand the Constitution. If the Constitution had much stronger checks and balances - with teeth for zealous enforcement - people in the past may have been able to stop, reverse, and/or punish incremental expansion before it ever took hold and was allowed to accumulate, which would have also halted the gradual perversion of its "interpretation." At the same time, libertarians and allies have had great success utilizing the Constitution as an ideological rallying point, because so many of us have internalized a respect for it (as opposed to unlimited government, that is)...not enough of us to prevent what has happened, but enough that there is still hope. The most dangerous aspect of the state - and the potential saving grace of an anarchic system - is that people are indoctrinated and conditioned into believing the state is "special" and inherently justified in doing things that constituent individuals are not. A minarchist country that became voluntaryist through gradual dismantling of government might have the culture to reject this insidious justification, but there may be a catch as well: In order to maintain that culture of liberty, it may still be necessary to have a single codified document (such as a Constitution) to internalize, pass down, and rally behind. This could serve as a basis for courts, and a basis for which people could judge their legitimacy in perpetuity.
Founder Dave Nolan was right of the Republican Party..he believed and was right, they had become moderates.
"As a youth he was an avid reader of science fiction, which led him to the writings of libertarian Robert Heinlein, the first major influence on his political thinking. Later, encountering Ayn Rand's writings helped cement his innate libertarianism."
In the early '60's there was virtually no libertarian movement as we know it today. Republican Barry Goldwater's 1964 presidential campaign, with its emphasis on limited government (aided by the fiery rhetoric of his libertarian speechwriter Karl Hess), was a natural draw for nascent libertarians looking to change the world. Dave was one of many libertarians attracted to that campaign.
He became a founding member of M.I.T. Students for Goldwater. Largely due to his efforts, the chapter rapidly grew to become the largest Youth for Goldwater chapter in New England. In recognition of this achievement Dave was appointed Vice-Chair of Massachusetts Youth for Goldwater.
Dave also became involved with the Liberty Amendment Committee, an organization working to repeal the federal income tax and get the federal governm...
Founder Dave Nolan was right of the Republican Party..he believed and was right, they had become moderates.
"As a youth he was an avid reader of science fiction, which led him to the writings of libertarian Robert Heinlein, the first major influence on his political thinking. Later, encountering Ayn Rand's writings helped cement his innate libertarianism."
In the early '60's there was virtually no libertarian movement as we know it today. Republican Barry Goldwater's 1964 presidential campaign, with its emphasis on limited government (aided by the fiery rhetoric of his libertarian speechwriter Karl Hess), was a natural draw for nascent libertarians looking to change the world. Dave was one of many libertarians attracted to that campaign.
He became a founding member of M.I.T. Students for Goldwater. Largely due to his efforts, the chapter rapidly grew to become the largest Youth for Goldwater chapter in New England. In recognition of this achievement Dave was appointed Vice-Chair of Massachusetts Youth for Goldwater.
Dave also became involved with the Liberty Amendment Committee, an organization working to repeal the federal income tax and get the federal government out of all activities not specifically authorized by the U.S. Constitution.
The Libertarian movement has been infiltrate by the left to become Liberal lite. Its only purpose now is to siphon off votes from the Republican party so that the DemocRats can win national elections
A government's job is to manage force. Its proper functions all have to do with that. And they are three and only three:
Police
Military
Courts
It has taken a great deal of time to get to this point. But a minarchist society would keep taxes to a minimum. After that, a world in which the biggest trading companies field their own troops might look rather interesting.
I don't like ObamaCare's mandate, which is unconstitutional regardless of what the SC has said, or its further wedding of large corporations to government. The *more* free market approach would have been what I'm advocating: A completely private system of health care practitioners (I would have done more even to strengthen that aspect, and to eliminate their red tape and government burden), but within the context of public funding, and to have that funding limit...
I don't like ObamaCare's mandate, which is unconstitutional regardless of what the SC has said, or its further wedding of large corporations to government. The *more* free market approach would have been what I'm advocating: A completely private system of health care practitioners (I would have done more even to strengthen that aspect, and to eliminate their red tape and government burden), but within the context of public funding, and to have that funding limited to constitutional taxes (Kucinich's HR 676 plan consisted of a 3.7% payroll tax, and a 5% tax on the employer side. This is not much above what each pay now into Medicare, and it would have replaced – not been in addition to – it, and its full health, dental, eye and mental health coverage would have allowed people the freedom to go to the practice of their choice, with zero co-pays, zero deductibles, no worry ever over how they're going to pay their medical bills, no more being a slave to a job just because they can't port their health insurance... that alone would be a huge boost to free labor markets – if that is in fact what we're interested in.
Lastly, there is no doubt at all that this is within the power of The People to achieve and implement, should they want it, because we believe that people have the God-given right to free association. 'Public' isn't a dirty word – I myself don't even think in terms of 'public' and 'private'... those categories make no sense. In both cases, all we are dealing with are *people*; associations of *people*. My libertarianism requires only that
1) The associations – whether 'public' or 'private' – be as free as they can possibly be, for all, in consideration of their human – not divine – organization (that they be truly *self*-organized), and
2) We recognize that centralization is a two-edged sword – as much as centralization allows men to increase their living, their material achievements and comforts and to reduce their toil, does excessive centralization tend to sour and corrupt all that which is good in human self-organization.
My health care example here, hopefully, provides some insight into what I believe a proper balance might be.
Edit: I think this is where Minarchist puts me. if not, please help me to "revise" my position.
We *may* want a federal government strictly for the purpose of defense and treaties & such, paid for by subscriptions tendered by the various states and voluntary insofar as the people are concerned, and for establishing a union of the various States, which states would retain all rights of sovereignty and secession, and prohibited from all manner of Force against the citizens.
FedGov should have absolutely NO powers whatsoever over the citizens.
The dangers remain within all "lower" levels of government; tackling that comes later, but you get my drift.
"As a youth he was an avid reader of science fiction, which led him to the writings of libertarian Robert Heinlein, the first major influence on his political thinking. Later, encountering Ayn Rand's writings helped cement his innate libertarianism."
In the early '60's there was virtually no libertarian movement as we know it today. Republican Barry Goldwater's 1964 presidential campaign, with its emphasis on limited government (aided by the fiery rhetoric of his libertarian speechwriter Karl Hess), was a natural draw for nascent libertarians looking to change the world. Dave was one of many libertarians attracted to that campaign.
He became a founding member of M.I.T. Students for Goldwater. Largely due to his efforts, the chapter rapidly grew to become the largest Youth for Goldwater chapter in New England. In recognition of this achievement Dave was appointed Vice-Chair of Massachusetts Youth for Goldwater.
Dave also became involved with the Liberty Amendment Committee, an organization working to repeal the federal income tax and get the federal government out of all activities not specifically authorized by the U.S. Constitution."
The Libertarian movement has been infiltrate by the left to become Liberal lite. Its only purpose now is to siphon off votes from the Republican party so that the DemocRats can win national elections
I'd still consider the Constitution more of an early experiment in minarchy rather than its final failure. I could write a Constitution with extremely paranoid and vindictive checks and balances that put an entire "armory of Damocles" over anyone who dared to take public office, for instance. ;) On top of that, it could be made as difficult as necessary to pass arbitrary legislation (or impossible), and as easy as necessary (or trivial) for the public to repeal it. Technically speaking, you could have a minarchy without a legislative branch altogether...just courts and a bare-bones executive branch for the purpose of coordinating a national defense against a hostile state.
That's not to say voluntaryism wouldn't be preferable, and it's really the direction I hope humanity moves toward in the long run...but I still think a properly constructed minarchy could "work."
I haven't read it yet, but "Hologram of Liberty" by Boston T. Party is supposed to be a great book on this subject.
While I definitely think that the U.S. Constitution was a breakthrough moment in the history of government, I have to agree with Lysander Spooner that, at the end of the day, it has either overtly permitted the kind of tyranny we see now, or has been powerless to prevent it.
Benjamin Franklin had some interesting words on the Constitution upon its initial completion:
http://www.usconstitution.net...
He seemed to believe that it was not the best Constitution possible, but the best that could actually be agreed upon by the delegates present. He was also well aware it would end in despotism, but he seemed to fear the consequences of immediate failure more. Even though the states were doing pretty well in "anarchic" years without an effective central government (and he once made a wry comment that the delegates at the convention had to hurry up before the people caught on ;)), I think he feared Britain especially would attempt to take over again, and that the people wouldn't care enough to fight them off again, which would prematurely end such a fledgling experiment in limited representative government.
We only know the consequences of the path that was actually taken for sure, so who knows if he might have been right? I'm sure that if they had t...
Benjamin Franklin had some interesting words on the Constitution upon its initial completion:
http://www.usconstitution.net...
He seemed to believe that it was not the best Constitution possible, but the best that could actually be agreed upon by the delegates present. He was also well aware it would end in despotism, but he seemed to fear the consequences of immediate failure more. Even though the states were doing pretty well in "anarchic" years without an effective central government (and he once made a wry comment that the delegates at the convention had to hurry up before the people caught on ;)), I think he feared Britain especially would attempt to take over again, and that the people wouldn't care enough to fight them off again, which would prematurely end such a fledgling experiment in limited representative government.
We only know the consequences of the path that was actually taken for sure, so who knows if he might have been right? I'm sure that if they had the support of enough delegates, they might have been able to write a better Constitution: Eliminating slavery off the bat would likely have prevented the Civil War and Lincoln, which could have given us a lot longer before things totally fell apart. Nevertheless, I get the feeling that writing a Constitution that actually "worked" was beyond them. From their vantage point, they just didn't have enough historical perspective yet to write anything that wouldn't end in despotism...and whether or not he believed anything else was possible, Franklin seemed to know it. Given that, a British takeover and immediate loss of sovereignty might have legitimately seemed like a bigger threat than tyranny centuries down the road.
With the addition of the past two hundred years of hindsight, I think it's now quite possible to write a constitution that would actually work, but our real obstacle would be the same one that forced the Framers to keep slavery in the original Constitution: Even if the initial draft was impervious to internal subversion (by virtue of being written by someone sufficiently paranoid and precise), would the delegates be intelligent or wise enough to ratify it or constructively strengthen it, or would they be foolish enough to demand dilution?
Then again, it's possible that I'm conflating her beliefs with those of her successors in the Objectivist movement like Leonard Peikoff and Yaron Brook - who really are out-and-out hawks on foreign policy - and if so, I apologize.