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Teachers and Their Unions: Victims or Complicit?

Fef 2012/03/05 17:04:02
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...Continuing my rant from before about how teachers and administrators act complacent with the decline of public school education. Should Schools Lay Teachers Off Based on Seniority or Quality?
I've found one of the best videos ever to explain teachers unions and public schools. Watch this video.
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  • Louisa - Enemy of the State 2012/03/05 18:15:57
    Teachers are Complicit with Teacher Unions
    Louisa - Enemy of the State
    +9
    Funny how teachers have voices when you try to touch their benefits but can't seem to collectively gather in protest over the lack of education the kids are getting in public schools.

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  • JuneGagnon 2012/03/07 22:18:03 (edited)
    Teachers are Victims of Teacher Unions
    JuneGagnon
    Actually, it's both - -you have some teachers (liberals) who agree with and support the union activity; you have a large number of "other teaches" who want nothing to do with any of it.
    This video is a good example - -at least "one" of those teachers had a "brain" that was connected to "common sense and truth" and it wasn't the one in a skirt.
  • David Hussey 2012/03/07 01:06:25
    Teachers are Complicit with Teacher Unions
    David Hussey
    In the midst of a strike by the Teachers Federation here in British Columbia this is a topical issued you've raised. I hear endlessly from the union that they are concerned about the children, that their job action is all about improving working conditions and bettering the education of their students. Yet, belying all this rhetoric, the non-negotiable item for them in negotiations is a 15% pay increase over 3yrs.

    Now don't get me wrong, I believe teachers are an important part of society and should be well compensated for their work. BUT, in a time of fiscal deficits and mounting debt, for people to be demanding more money when already the average starting salary of a teacher in BC is $47,461.00\yr this to me seems like extorting money from the taxpayers, holding their children's education for ransom.

    And all this while the while the union keeps teachers in their jobs when they have no business being in a classroom. It is nearly impossible to be rid of a bad teacher. There are tens of thousands of teachers who cannot find employment in their field, and many of them would be better teachers than some of the entrenched teachers whose seniority will keep them going through the motions until they retire to their quite lucrative pensions.

    It is the tax payer and most of all the quality of the education for the kids that is the victim
  • cynsity 2012/03/07 00:14:59
    Teachers are Complicit with Teacher Unions
    cynsity
    As a public school teacher (non union) I can tell you saddly most teachers are in co-hoots with the unions and the union agenda. However I am speaking strickly about the NEA. Many teachers who are union are NOT part of the NEA and are doing as much as they can to improve public education. The problem is they are fighting against a HUGE group who is well funded and even better connected and just like anyone else who needs their job they are only so willing to rock the boat.

    I state this everytime a poll on teachers and public schools comes up. If teh public really wantsto improve public education than the public needs to get into those schools and see what is going on in them. The public needs to stop looking at schools as free daycare (k-5) or juvi hall (6-12). The public needs to stop dropping teh kids at teh door and forgetting about them for 7.5 hours or more. The public needs to start taking responsibility for what is being taught by attending school board meetings and voting wisely on school board members and school admin. the public wants to complain but what is teh saying about its better to light a candle than curse the darkness... get in your local schools shine a light. Ask teachers about the text books and about their lesson plans and about standards then s...

    As a public school teacher (non union) I can tell you saddly most teachers are in co-hoots with the unions and the union agenda. However I am speaking strickly about the NEA. Many teachers who are union are NOT part of the NEA and are doing as much as they can to improve public education. The problem is they are fighting against a HUGE group who is well funded and even better connected and just like anyone else who needs their job they are only so willing to rock the boat.

    I state this everytime a poll on teachers and public schools comes up. If teh public really wantsto improve public education than the public needs to get into those schools and see what is going on in them. The public needs to stop looking at schools as free daycare (k-5) or juvi hall (6-12). The public needs to stop dropping teh kids at teh door and forgetting about them for 7.5 hours or more. The public needs to start taking responsibility for what is being taught by attending school board meetings and voting wisely on school board members and school admin. the public wants to complain but what is teh saying about its better to light a candle than curse the darkness... get in your local schools shine a light. Ask teachers about the text books and about their lesson plans and about standards then start talking to your neighbors, other parenst, write articles in the paper

    Because as my last principal total me when I went public on something I saw and caused a big brew hahah.... "IF the public KNEW what happended in here [public schools] the lid would blow off"
    (more)
  • Quazimoto cynsity 2012/03/07 14:24:14
  • Aqua Surf 2012/03/06 15:50:23
    Teachers are Complicit with Teacher Unions
    Aqua Surf
    Video sounded like a Commie propaganda film. Yikes!
  • Fef Aqua Surf 2012/03/07 00:42:19
    Fef
    +1
    We have to fight fire with fire... talk in their language using re-education techniques.
  • Peon of the Masses 2012/03/06 14:22:12
    Teachers are Complicit with Teacher Unions
    Peon of the Masses
    The majority are these days.
  • sbtbill 2012/03/06 07:20:35
    Teachers are Complicit with Teacher Unions
    sbtbill
    Teachers, there students and the country are victims of the right.
  • Fef sbtbill 2012/03/07 00:48:37
    Fef
    how so?
  • cynsity sbtbill 2012/03/07 19:13:20
    cynsity
    I am a teacher I am certainally NOT a victum... and I think if you had had a teacher like me I wouldn't be rolling my eyes at your post... Their -- shows ownership; there -- shows placement; they're a contraction of they are -- show time
  • JuneGagnon cynsity 2012/03/07 22:28:27
    JuneGagnon
    You forgot to tell US if you are also a "union member" - -if you are, then you support the union, NOT the students, nor their "tax-paying parents"!
  • cynsity JuneGagnon 2012/03/08 01:13:56
    cynsity
    I said so in my earily posts I am NON union... and I take (bad word) for it all the time I have even been threatend by union teachers because I will not allow my money to go to their causes... my students are all that matter to me... They know that and THEIR parents/families know that
  • Studied 2012/03/06 03:48:26
    Teachers are Complicit with Teacher Unions
    Studied
    +2
    Teachers should be kept according to their ability to teach. If you do not produce, you lose your job, just like in any other business. Besides I think the unions do more harm than good for the great teachers out there.
  • cynsity Studied 2012/03/07 19:40:35
    cynsity
    In part I agree, unions make it very hard to just teach. I am a teacher (non union) so I am well aware of the struggles educators face. However; ability to teach is very hard to determin.
    If you want to just go based on test scores then you would have to fire every single teacher out there including me, yet I have great success with many of my students, especially the "low preforming ones" because my philiosophy is to teach using connections to experences. (Oh I teach social studies which covers everything from history/govt to psy/mental health and street law).
    There is no place in business where what the guy in the cubical next to you does determines if you keep your job. There is also no place in business where when employees fail the company president gets fired. The problem with tests they are not determinate of a students ability and many times students do not invest in the test results (this is what happends with standards testing) because the results of the tests do not go on the students records.
    I have fellow teachers who ONLY grade based on test scores more than 45% of their students are failing or on the brink of failing, classwork, projects, partisipation, none of those count towards the students grade. Mostly because the teachers are to lazy (yes I went ...





    In part I agree, unions make it very hard to just teach. I am a teacher (non union) so I am well aware of the struggles educators face. However; ability to teach is very hard to determin.
    If you want to just go based on test scores then you would have to fire every single teacher out there including me, yet I have great success with many of my students, especially the "low preforming ones" because my philiosophy is to teach using connections to experences. (Oh I teach social studies which covers everything from history/govt to psy/mental health and street law).
    There is no place in business where what the guy in the cubical next to you does determines if you keep your job. There is also no place in business where when employees fail the company president gets fired. The problem with tests they are not determinate of a students ability and many times students do not invest in the test results (this is what happends with standards testing) because the results of the tests do not go on the students records.
    I have fellow teachers who ONLY grade based on test scores more than 45% of their students are failing or on the brink of failing, classwork, projects, partisipation, none of those count towards the students grade. Mostly because the teachers are to lazy (yes I went there) to grade other works.
    I also have teachers who do not test at all because the content doesn't lend itself to testing.
    I only count tests scores as 30% of total grades and I allow several testing methods because when tests are the determination you have to consider things like is the student a poor test taker, does the student have other learning issues (more than 50% of my students read below a 3rd grade level, did I mention I teacher 9-12) is the student being cared for at home, sleep, food, security (maslows needs list) do they HAVE to hold a job to support the family? all this impacts students ability to learn successfuly.

    BUT what has the most impact on student success is what is said about education and practiced in the home. If parents do not ask about what happened in class on a daily basis, if they do not ensure students study and do homework, if tehy tell the student the teachers are stupid and can't fail them or otherwise undermine the teachers authority in and out of the classroom then the student has no reason to sit up, be quiet, listen, take notes and learn. If parents do not come to parent teacher meetings if parents do not get involved with the school board if parents do not police the schools then education will never improve.

    Its not the teachers who have total control. This is at least a 3 person system, the teacher, the student and the family. If we all do not take responsibility equally where we need to nothing happends.
    (more)
  • baboula 2012/03/06 02:58:12
    Teachers are Complicit with Teacher Unions
    baboula
    +1
    Now I know not all teachers are worthless but they have got to step it up; it is like the politicians or the police they are all being painted with the brush because of the actions of a few.
  • Synderion 2012/03/06 02:33:43
    Teachers are Complicit with Teacher Unions
    Synderion
    As a current high school student and the son of two teachers in a right to work state, the opinion seems to be that unions are quite beneficial. Property values and average incomes in my area are some of the highest in the country but teachers here have not gotten a raise in 5 years and are taking a pay cut next year.

    Nothing they can do about it though, if they did, it would infringe on their "right to work"

    quite a sad situation for unionless teachers all over the country.
  • Raymond Allamby 2012/03/06 02:26:40
    Teachers are Victims of Teacher Unions
    Raymond Allamby
    well, it's one thing to stop the abuses of some unions, and i agree it's needed, but no way should they be outlawed. the union ideal is good for the worker, to keep from being taken advantage of. all the things you enjoy today, like the 40 hour work week, overtime, weekends off, paid holidays, paid vacations, health benefits, safe workplaces, and good pay, are all from unions. as far as the decline in teaching, thank bush's no child left behind plan for changing teachers into test givers. now that we got rid of that nonsense, we are starting to come back.
  • Fef Raymond... 2012/03/06 05:23:43
    Fef
    the federal gov't (from Carter to Obama and all in between) should keep out of education. Each state has its needs, standards and budgets. No reason to reallocate money from one state to another state for unaccountable education.
  • Raymond... Fef 2012/03/06 05:36:39
    Raymond Allamby
    but if we did it that way, then standards between the states could vary, causing a possible divergence in general knowledge levels between states. this could cause friction between states, similar to the problems caused by competing tax rates between states vying for business. do you really want one state to excel, while another state craps out? the federal government just needs to do a better job of it, not get out of it.
  • cynsity Raymond... 2012/03/07 19:56:32
    cynsity
    I am a teacher... standards between teh states DO vary and this is what makes the system so unbalanced. My state doesn't require standards testing for social studies yet other states do so when scores are compiled and compared a state with scores in ss will apear to show worse than those without scores. Or states where standards are more slack such as 9th graders being proficent in pre algerbra in one state but be proficent in algerbra in another. You can not compare schools statewide let alone nation wide and yet taht is what is happening every year. The fact that in 2007 every school was recieving at least $8000 per student through taxes yet only spending about $2000 on actuall education is what is wrong with the system and that is UNIONS. An average private school in a middle class area costs about $2000 a year and those students are succeeding because the teachers are not union and have to work for a living

    I agree NCLB killed education but it was what the UNIONS wanted the UNIONS pushed it, developed it and demanded it become law which CONGRESS happily complied. And we haven't gotten rid of it some states have found ways to "opt" out but they just changed from one kind of test to another because UNIONS don't want teachers to have to work very hard.
  • Raymond... cynsity 2012/03/07 20:05:20
    Raymond Allamby
    as i said, union leadership has issues. the union ideal is a good one. take the corruption out of it, and we will all be better for it. our do you really want to go back to 50 cent an hour wages for your hard work? those non union teachers you spoke of, wouldn't be teaching there for peanuts, and they make good wages because unions raised the wage standard for the country. the unions originally wanted NCLB because it seemed at the time to be a good thing. not so, as we see. the idea was still originally from the bush white house. it was bush who brought down our education system. it was a mistake to support it.
  • cynsity Raymond... 2012/03/07 20:44:39
    cynsity
    Taking corruptions out of unions would end unions. And its not unions who force wages to rise if it was just unions doing that every business would simply shut down and put everyone out of work every time unions suggested wage increase.
    I am a NON union teacher and the only thing being non union affects is my ability to have a union paid lawyer IF i need one, but I have pre paid legal as it is for my small home business and I can access that legal service if needed. My health care is covered bythe VA or if need be by my spouce's insurance so I do not need union for that and guess what I am smart enough to read a ballot and vote on my own I don't need to send money to have someone else tell me what is best politically. I am paid more now as a teacher than I was ever paid asa soldier and not because of anything union but because I keep advancing my own education and I have years of experence many other teachers do not have. The more education a teacher gets for themselves the more schools will pay them and that is no anything unions control.
    And the blame bush doesn't work here I am a teacher and even during clintons years the union was pushing a form of NCLB so that is not going to work unions wanted NCLB not teachers and not government.
  • Raymond... cynsity 2012/03/07 21:38:29 (edited)
    Raymond Allamby
    now you have exposed your agenda. you are a union buster. lies will not avail you. i end it when the lies become too blatant. bye, and here's the history of NCLB:
    no child
  • Lisa 2012/03/06 02:01:35
    Teachers are Complicit with Teacher Unions
    Lisa
    +1
    They are from the Don't rock the boat mentality!
  • jwalker 2012/03/06 01:53:25
    Teachers are Complicit with Teacher Unions
    jwalker
    +2
    Teachers are not teaching.
  • RobertRowe 2012/03/06 01:11:04
    Teachers are Complicit with Teacher Unions
    RobertRowe
    +1
    teacher unions are ones where i would take the other side most of the time. in my region 1st year fulltime teachers make 50% more than my dad made as i was growing up and get 2-3 months off every year. school district execs in major cities nationwide make minimum 300% more than their state's governors; ex colorado governor roy romer last i heard was top dog of l.a.'s biggest district and makes 50% more than pres bush made annually for 8 years and obama makes now and they deal with a country and romer a measely school district.
  • Chelsea 2012/03/06 01:06:02
    Teachers are Complicit with Teacher Unions
    Chelsea
  • Fef Chelsea 2012/03/06 05:24:33
    Fef
    +2
    I'll start outfitting my kids in "I love charter school" shirts and give the mug to the teacher ... my kids go to public school.
  • Bowman 2012/03/06 00:47:05
    Teachers are Complicit with Teacher Unions
    Bowman
    +2
    Just home-school your kids already! Or find a charter school. They're popping up everywhere.
  • cindy 2012/03/06 00:42:31
    Teachers are Complicit with Teacher Unions
    cindy
    +2
    Great video and they should only keep the best of the best and maybe even create incentive.All of which is lacking today
  • SJG 2012/03/06 00:39:57
    Teachers are Complicit with Teacher Unions
    SJG
    +1
    Teachers are spoiled and the union ensures they can remain that way, so they step in line with the union to protect their jobs at any risk to the children's education.
  • notokand 2012/03/06 00:34:16
    Teachers are Victims of Teacher Unions
    notokand
    +1
    None of the above? My question to you is: How do you expect teachers to teach when they earn barley enough to take care of their families and constantly cut district budgets?

    The schools by me are cutting 14 teaching positions and the class sizes are well over 30 students per class. If we know students perform better and learn more in smaller classes, why are we cutting teachers?
  • Fef notokand 2012/03/06 05:25:58
    Fef
    +1
    "barely enough" -- teachers get paid well above the average private sector employee while working much fewer hours/days on the year.

    Did you watch the video? Teaching doesn't have anything to do with money. Parents home school their kids for free.
  • sbtbill Fef 2012/03/06 07:26:11
    sbtbill
    +1
    Teaching has a lot to do with money. If you are first rate you can usually make more in the private sector for less work. Keep in mind most teachers spend 5 or 6 hours in class, another hour doing various disapline and monitoring tasks. Then they have to correct tests and home work for a few hours. Then there are lesson plans. Ends up the average teacher works about 10 hours a day.

    Those are the reason I got out of it almost as soon as I tried it and am trying to talk my daughter out of it. Oh ya, I also make more for better hours in the private sector and I get paid every month.
  • cynsity sbtbill 2012/03/07 20:18:20
    cynsity
    Teachers spend 7.5 hours at least in the class room, that "hour doing various... tasks" is rotational and many of my fellow teachers do not grade seatwork/homework at all or grade it only for completion. Teachers who have several years in re-use lesson plans and rarely update them. Yet teachers will sit for 18 hours in a classroom so 8 of 300 parents can come to parent teacher meetings and teachers will spend 15 hours a week sending emails and making phone calls to parenst who tell the students the teacher is a bitch ratgher than speak with the student about sleeping in class or not finishing assignments....

    Look I teach, I am non union, I love my work and I really love my students (high school) and I use my weekends to write plans because most of my classes are non deteminant classes such as current events, government affairs, and street law (I teach social studies) which means the news cycle decides what will be taught in class the following week. I stay at least 3 hours after school every day to correct papers to imput grades and to be there if a student wants to talk about a bad break up with a gf/bf or just to see if I have an extra yogurt in the fridge because they won't get feed at home that night.

    There are some sucky aspects to teaching but the aspects that dove me t...
    Teachers spend 7.5 hours at least in the class room, that "hour doing various... tasks" is rotational and many of my fellow teachers do not grade seatwork/homework at all or grade it only for completion. Teachers who have several years in re-use lesson plans and rarely update them. Yet teachers will sit for 18 hours in a classroom so 8 of 300 parents can come to parent teacher meetings and teachers will spend 15 hours a week sending emails and making phone calls to parenst who tell the students the teacher is a bitch ratgher than speak with the student about sleeping in class or not finishing assignments....

    Look I teach, I am non union, I love my work and I really love my students (high school) and I use my weekends to write plans because most of my classes are non deteminant classes such as current events, government affairs, and street law (I teach social studies) which means the news cycle decides what will be taught in class the following week. I stay at least 3 hours after school every day to correct papers to imput grades and to be there if a student wants to talk about a bad break up with a gf/bf or just to see if I have an extra yogurt in the fridge because they won't get feed at home that night.

    There are some sucky aspects to teaching but the aspects that dove me to teach after 12+ years in the army and several years private sector are so very worth it... seeing that student everyone gave up on walk up and take that diploma or getting an announcement a former student graduated cum lauda... its not about money its about knowing I did something that benefited my society and will continue to do so even if I am no longer around.
    (more)
  • notokand Fef 2012/03/06 13:08:14 (edited)
    notokand
    You name a teacher who simply stops at 8 hours a day and I'll show you a teacher who doesn't really care about either their job or the students. After hearing the stories from the friends I have who are teachers, those breaks are very much needed. There are schools that do year round and, but the breaks work out the same. By the way, the time off is just as needed for those kids as the teachers. School cost money. Just because we make up lines and have a computer read them with 2 pretty cartoon pictures doesn't make it true... On second thought, everything on the internet MUST be true!
  • cynsity notokand 2012/03/07 20:20:40
    cynsity
    many teacher... sadly... do hang it up at last bell... i work with many like that. But then I also work with teachers who like me are still in the classroom 3 hours later work summer school and teach night school to adults trying to get their GED... there are always a few in every group who do as little as possible and some who go way beyond the norm...
  • notokand cynsity 2012/03/08 01:26:38
    notokand
    True, you could say that for any class or group of workers or citizens though- not just teachers.
  • cynsity notokand 2012/03/08 01:30:02
    cynsity
    it HUMAN nature not teacher nature or union nature... All we can do really is hope those with good work ethic remain higher in numbers than those without.
  • notokand cynsity 2012/03/08 03:07:22
    notokand
    You're 100% right, I do believe in unions though. I look how companies liek Walmart thrive and how their satff suffers and I would hate to see that happen to our schools. I think Unions help back staff (for the most part)

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