It was a tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, symbolizing nothing.
Remember how the Republican juggernaut was going to decimate the elections? Or how the PUMAs were going to severely upset the balances at the last minute? Or that the investigation into Obama's place of birth would prove them right?
Have they ever hyped anything that they were right about?
Tea Bag Parties Dribbling Out?
Not Einstein
2009/04/15 19:16:44
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Fox News has hyped these protest tea bag parties for weeks, but it looks as though so far, they are lacking in participants. It is estimated that 30,000 people nationwide have shown up. When all is said and done an estimate on the high side of 100,000 participants will have participated.
Here are some interesting comments I found regarding a post by The Atlantic, entitled In Defense of the Tax-Day Tea Parties, found at http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/04/in_defense_of_the_tax...
ottovbvs April 15, 2009 1:01 PM
No but there's plenty of evidence they are being organized and bankrolled by various below the line consertive front groups. And promoted by Fox News of course. The attendees will be all sorts of antis. Anti gays, anti democrats, anti taxers, anti abortion you name it. The anti tax argument is perhaps the most laughable since as Bruce Bartlett points out in this week's edition of Forbes, the 2009 tax take is, at around 15.5% of GDP, the lowest since 1950!
Darius April 15, 2009 1:03 PM
"Their origins -- organic, programmatic, accidental or otherwise -- don't matter much anymore. If -- and we'll have to see the numbers at the end of the day -- 100,000 Americans show up to protest their taxes, the onus to dismiss them as a nascent political force shifts to the Democrats."
Except that there's no coherent ideology behind this so-called "political force". Some are against higher taxes. (Even though many of these people are seeing their tax burden reduced under Obama.) Some are against the bailout. (So should we have just let major financial institutions collapse, instead?) Some are against the stimulus. (So we shouldn't provide aid to those hit hard by the recession?) Some are against spending in general. (So what, specifically, would they have the government cut?)
It's all complaining, no solutions. It is, as your colleague Andrew Sullivan said, a tantrum.
(And the origins do matter, insofar as we can use them to determine whether this is based on actual principle or petty partisanship. I'm seeing a lot of the latter thus far, and not very much of the former.)
ottovbvs April 15, 2009 1:27 PM
Marc: I just did a quick surf of a couple liberal blogs and based on turnouts in places like Washington and Boston, I'd say you're going to be lucky to get to 30,000 across the country. Contrast that with turnouts for the anti war demos or the immigration reform rallies. These were a dumb idea without any focus, they chose an utterly ridiculous symbol in the teabag, and they were rapidly infiltrated by Republican outrider groups and Fox. As some lib poster said of the teabag crowd in Boston....there are more Yankees fans in Boston.
24AheadDotCom April 15, 2009 1:38 PM
If 100,000 people turn out for all the "parties", that would represent about 0.08% of all those who voted for McCain or BHO. That's already a very, very small number, but it gets worse:
1. There's no upside because they aren't opposing BHO in a fashion that millions would support. If they could get millions, the Libertarian Party would be kingmakers by now.
2. Some of that 100,000 will be in deep blue districts, such as Napa. Seriously: Napa? Why not Berkeley? There's no reason why a Dem from a deep blue district needs to care about what a very small percentage of his possible opposition thinks.
The good thing about this is that it's going to be a Darwin moment when the useful idiots attending the "parties" realize that their leaders have absolutely no clue. Hopefully then they'll start to look for effective, intelligent ways to oppose BHO, such as this:
http://24ahead.com/s/question-authority
NCYvonne April 15, 2009 1:45 PM
Obama got 100,000 people for a late-night rally IN THE RAIN in Manassas, Virginia on November 3rd. That's 100,000 people in one spot at one time.
But we're supposed to be impressed if this "spontaneous uprising" brings in 100,000 in 300 cities across the country all day after being promoted day and night on Faux News? Ummmm. Not so much!
jb April 15, 2009 1:53 PM
You are all missing something. The grassroots level politics has always been the domain of the left. This is a new venture for the right and success today has the potential of snowballing to more in the future. Don't bury your heads and say it is nothing. It may be small now but these things have a tendency to grow.
As to what they are trying to say...I think the overwhelming message is that there is concern about government spending. As a result of that issue there is a spillover protest against taxes...but form what I have seen so far, and heard...the message is one against irresponsible spending (i.e. I voted for the bill but I never read it).
freaktown (Replying to: jb) April 15, 2009 2:00 PM
As to what they are trying to say...I think the overwhelming message is that there is concern about government spending.
if that's the case, where were these protests during the 8 yrs when bush was running up a trillion dollar deficit? that's why these "protests" have no credibility. they're just nakedly partisan outbursts of amorphous anger. like a lot of things these days if you do it and you're a republican the right is ok with it, but if you do it and you're a democrat well, by god! that's fascism!!
Shaun Dakin April 15, 2009 2:38 PM
If you are interested, here is the audio for the Tea Party Robocalls that have been blanketing the country.
http://thinkdodone.typepad.com/ccd/2009/04/tea-party-robocall...
Shaun Dakin, CEO
StopPoliticalCalls.org
AhYup April 15, 2009 2:55 PM
Marc, the Republicans do actually have a bit of experience with "grass roots" protest vis a vis the anti-abortion movement. Its not that the causes the incredulity, its the hyping on FOX news. It was clearly being pushed by all the usual top of the food chain GOP propagandists. Regardless of where it come from in the first place it was them that made the whole thing smell bad.
And as of right now after all their hype the turnout has to be embarrassing. About 30,000 nation wide after all that fuss is downright pathetic.
Here are some interesting comments I found regarding a post by The Atlantic, entitled In Defense of the Tax-Day Tea Parties, found at http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/04/in_defense_of_the_tax...
ottovbvs April 15, 2009 1:01 PM
No but there's plenty of evidence they are being organized and bankrolled by various below the line consertive front groups. And promoted by Fox News of course. The attendees will be all sorts of antis. Anti gays, anti democrats, anti taxers, anti abortion you name it. The anti tax argument is perhaps the most laughable since as Bruce Bartlett points out in this week's edition of Forbes, the 2009 tax take is, at around 15.5% of GDP, the lowest since 1950!
Darius April 15, 2009 1:03 PM
"Their origins -- organic, programmatic, accidental or otherwise -- don't matter much anymore. If -- and we'll have to see the numbers at the end of the day -- 100,000 Americans show up to protest their taxes, the onus to dismiss them as a nascent political force shifts to the Democrats."
Except that there's no coherent ideology behind this so-called "political force". Some are against higher taxes. (Even though many of these people are seeing their tax burden reduced under Obama.) Some are against the bailout. (So should we have just let major financial institutions collapse, instead?) Some are against the stimulus. (So we shouldn't provide aid to those hit hard by the recession?) Some are against spending in general. (So what, specifically, would they have the government cut?)
It's all complaining, no solutions. It is, as your colleague Andrew Sullivan said, a tantrum.
(And the origins do matter, insofar as we can use them to determine whether this is based on actual principle or petty partisanship. I'm seeing a lot of the latter thus far, and not very much of the former.)
ottovbvs April 15, 2009 1:27 PM
Marc: I just did a quick surf of a couple liberal blogs and based on turnouts in places like Washington and Boston, I'd say you're going to be lucky to get to 30,000 across the country. Contrast that with turnouts for the anti war demos or the immigration reform rallies. These were a dumb idea without any focus, they chose an utterly ridiculous symbol in the teabag, and they were rapidly infiltrated by Republican outrider groups and Fox. As some lib poster said of the teabag crowd in Boston....there are more Yankees fans in Boston.
24AheadDotCom April 15, 2009 1:38 PM
If 100,000 people turn out for all the "parties", that would represent about 0.08% of all those who voted for McCain or BHO. That's already a very, very small number, but it gets worse:
1. There's no upside because they aren't opposing BHO in a fashion that millions would support. If they could get millions, the Libertarian Party would be kingmakers by now.
2. Some of that 100,000 will be in deep blue districts, such as Napa. Seriously: Napa? Why not Berkeley? There's no reason why a Dem from a deep blue district needs to care about what a very small percentage of his possible opposition thinks.
The good thing about this is that it's going to be a Darwin moment when the useful idiots attending the "parties" realize that their leaders have absolutely no clue. Hopefully then they'll start to look for effective, intelligent ways to oppose BHO, such as this:
http://24ahead.com/s/question-authority
NCYvonne April 15, 2009 1:45 PM
Obama got 100,000 people for a late-night rally IN THE RAIN in Manassas, Virginia on November 3rd. That's 100,000 people in one spot at one time.
But we're supposed to be impressed if this "spontaneous uprising" brings in 100,000 in 300 cities across the country all day after being promoted day and night on Faux News? Ummmm. Not so much!
jb April 15, 2009 1:53 PM
You are all missing something. The grassroots level politics has always been the domain of the left. This is a new venture for the right and success today has the potential of snowballing to more in the future. Don't bury your heads and say it is nothing. It may be small now but these things have a tendency to grow.
As to what they are trying to say...I think the overwhelming message is that there is concern about government spending. As a result of that issue there is a spillover protest against taxes...but form what I have seen so far, and heard...the message is one against irresponsible spending (i.e. I voted for the bill but I never read it).
freaktown (Replying to: jb) April 15, 2009 2:00 PM
As to what they are trying to say...I think the overwhelming message is that there is concern about government spending.
if that's the case, where were these protests during the 8 yrs when bush was running up a trillion dollar deficit? that's why these "protests" have no credibility. they're just nakedly partisan outbursts of amorphous anger. like a lot of things these days if you do it and you're a republican the right is ok with it, but if you do it and you're a democrat well, by god! that's fascism!!
Shaun Dakin April 15, 2009 2:38 PM
If you are interested, here is the audio for the Tea Party Robocalls that have been blanketing the country.
http://thinkdodone.typepad.com/ccd/2009/04/tea-party-robocall...
Shaun Dakin, CEO
StopPoliticalCalls.org
AhYup April 15, 2009 2:55 PM
Marc, the Republicans do actually have a bit of experience with "grass roots" protest vis a vis the anti-abortion movement. Its not that the causes the incredulity, its the hyping on FOX news. It was clearly being pushed by all the usual top of the food chain GOP propagandists. Regardless of where it come from in the first place it was them that made the whole thing smell bad.
And as of right now after all their hype the turnout has to be embarrassing. About 30,000 nation wide after all that fuss is downright pathetic.
Top Opinion
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herb 2009/04/16 01:17:15
Remember how the Republican juggernaut was going to decimate the elections? Or how the PUMAs were going to severely upset the balances at the last minute? Or that the investigation into Obama's place of birth would prove them right?
Have they ever hyped anything that they were right about?
Somehow I don't think Bill O' will enjoy tea bagging as much as I will!!
"""A chapter of a group once described by Ronald Reagan as the “conscience of the Republican Party” has announced plans to host a speech by the author of a book that falsely claims that homosexuals largely orchestrated the Holocaust. The Murrieta-Temecula Republican Assembly, a local chapter of the conservative GOP activist group California Republican Assembly, says it will hear on April 3 from Scott Lively — a man it boastfully describes as “The Pastor Vilified by the Newspapers as a Hater Because of his stand Against the Promotion of Homosexuality.”
Lively, who runs Abiding Truth Ministries, co-authored the notorious book The Pink Swastika: Homosexuality in the Nazi Party and claims that “the Nazi Party was entirely controlled by militaristic male homosexuals throughout its short history.” The book’s crude thesis, that gay men played instrumental roles in forming the Third Reich and carrying out the Holocaust, has been thoroughly discredited by real historians. (Lively’s speech to the Murrieta-Temecula group is entitled “The Pink Swastika.”) Lively is also co-founder of the anti-gay hate group Watchmen on the Walls.
I think this may be the reason for the low attendance here.
Edited to add: Are you in Temecula? I'm staying in Hemet with my folks for an unspecified amount of time.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
Thanks for the link. I read the other articles on there too. All very informative, well most of them anyway.