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Talking Points

Talking Points
by Thomas Sowell talking points thomas sowell



One of the many signs of the degeneration of our times is how many serious, even life-and-death, issues are approached as talking points in a game of verbal fencing. Nothing illustrates this more than the fatuous, and even childish, controversy about "torturing" captured terrorists.

People's actions often make far more sense than their words. Most of the people who are talking lofty talk about how we mustn't descend to the level of our enemies would themselves behave very differently if presented with a comparable situation, instead of being presented with an opportunity to be morally one up with rhetoric.

What if it was your mother or your child who was tied up somewhere beside a ticking time bomb and you had captured a terrorist who knew where that was? Face it: What you would do to that terrorist to make him talk would make water-boarding look like a picnic.

You wouldn't care what the New York Times would say or what "world opinion" in the U.N. would say. You would save your loved one's life and tell those other people what they could do.

But if the United States behaves that way it is called "arrogance"-- even by American citizens. Indeed, even by the American president.

There is a big difference between being ponderous and being serious. It is scary when the President of the United States is not being serious about matters of life and death, saying that there are "other ways" of getting information from terrorists.

Maybe this is a step up from the previous talking point that "torture" had not gotten any important information out of terrorists. Only after this had been shown to be a flat-out lie did Barack Obama shift his rhetoric to the lame assertion that unspecified "other ways" could have been used.

For a man whose whole life has been based on style rather than substance, on rhetoric rather than reality, perhaps nothing better could have been expected. But that the media and the public would have become so mesmerized by the Obama cult that they could not see through this to think of their own survival, or that of this nation, is truly a chilling thought.

When we look back at history, it is amazing what foolish and even childish things people said and did on the eve of a catastrophe about to consume them. In 1938, with Hitler preparing to unleash a war in which tens of millions of men, women and children would be slaughtered, the play that was the biggest hit on the Paris stage was a play about French and German reconciliation, and a French pacifist that year dedicated his book to Adolf Hitler.

When historians of the future look back on our era, what will they think of our time? Our media too squeamish to call murderous and sadistic terrorists anything worse than "militants" or "insurgents"? Our president going abroad to denigrate the country that elected him, pandering to feckless allies and outright enemies, and literally bowing to a foreign tyrant ruling a country from which most of the 9/11 terrorists came?

It is easy to make talking points about how Churchill did not torture German prisoners, even while London was being bombed. There was a very good reason for that: They were ordinary prisoners of war who were covered by the Geneva Convention and who didn't know anything that would keep London from being bombed.

Whatever the verbal fencing over the meaning of the word "torture," there is a fundamental difference between simply inflicting pain on innocent people for the sheer pleasure of it-- which is what our terrorist enemies do-- and getting life-saving information out of the terrorists by whatever means are necessary.

The left has long confused physical parallels with moral parallels. But when a criminal shoots at a policeman and the policeman shoots back, physical equivalence is not moral equivalence. And what American intelligence agents have done to captured terrorists is not even physical equivalence.

If we have reached the point where we cannot be bothered to think beyond rhetoric or to make moral distinctions, then we have reached the point where our own survival in an increasingly dangerous world of nuclear proliferation can no longer be taken for granted.


About The Author
-------------------------------------------------------------...
Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
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  • +4 raves Martha May 12, 2009 13:01:37
    Martha
    Good points made here. I wonder if the terrorists who cut off Nick Berg's and Daniel Perl's heads got any valuable information from them?
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  • +1 raves
    Keith May 16, 2009 02:36:44
    Keith
    Sowell is a genius, his book Basic Economics, should be a(the) most highly suggested text for every college econ. professor. The likes of Sowell, Elder, and Steele will be a moving voice in a re-claimation of America, if not the catalist! Great post Bill!!
  • Bill - ... Keith May 16, 2009 02:55:18
    Bill - Buffalo Soldier
    Thanks, I really like he and Williams - brilliant men
  • +1 raves
    Keith Bill - ... May 16, 2009 03:04:00
    Keith
    If people would only stop and listen they would learn so much and I do believe we could find our way out of the woods.
  • +1 raves
    Carl May 13, 2009 00:57:53
    Carl
    Excellent article.
  • +1 raves
    Bill - ... Carl May 13, 2009 06:44:52
    Bill - Buffalo Soldier
    I thought so too, thanks
  • +1 raves
    Silverback May 12, 2009 19:53:17
    Silverback
    The Poly-tish-Uns have forgotten a very important element. The natural drive in every human to survive. If our troops feel it's a threat to their survival we may be getting fewer prisoners. Those you kill now will not later do harm to you. Even unofficially with that in a soldiers head, it's shot to kill and ask no question. Sounds right to me.
  • +1 raves
    Bill - ... Silverback May 12, 2009 20:19:53
    Bill - Buffalo Soldier
    Good point - why fight them twice when 'once and done' will do it
  • +1 raves
    Silverback Bill - ... May 12, 2009 20:21:00
    Silverback
    Lack of military experience will bite BHO in the butt. LOL
  • +1 raves
    Bill - ... Silverback May 12, 2009 20:28:48 (edited)
    Bill - Buffalo Soldier
    I just hope we are not in the teeth when it does.
  • +2 raves
    Albedo 9.0 May 12, 2009 19:45:42 (edited)
    Albedo 9.0
    As always your comments and blogs are well thought out and and are undeniably truthful. You are a man that cares about the betterment of man and country and not rhetoric and semantics. I applaud you Bill! =)
  • +1 raves
    Bill - ... Albedo 9.0 May 12, 2009 20:20:27
    Bill - Buffalo Soldier
    Gosh, thanks. I really like Sowells logical approach too
  • +1 raves
    Albedo 9.0 Bill - ... May 12, 2009 22:02:39
    Albedo 9.0
    I like his correct, logical and succinct style too. He doesn't leave any room for rhetoric and semantics. This is my favorite style of writing because you only speak with the truth and any rebutal is always and obviously weak at best. Its the kind of logic that always brings us to the root cause/truth of any problem instead of just a peripheral symptom that can be debated about. If that makes any sense. His thoughts are iron clad and with out room for debate.=)
  • +1 raves
    madjack May 12, 2009 16:50:57
    madjack
    Sowell makes valid points here.I agree with him especially on where we are visa-vis rhetoric and the situation at hand.As a veteran I have serious reservations regarding torture.A uniformed enemy combatant should be treated according to the rules of war.The terrorist is a criminal of the lowest order.Random mass murder is their specialty.Whenever possible,they further exploit the murders by calculating the 'news value' of the event.Our government wants to extend to these individuals the rights of an American citizen incarcerated in our prison system,which is leftist banality gone mad.If water boarding etc will save Americans and others from these criminals,then by all means continue.
  • +2 raves
    Bill - ... madjack May 12, 2009 16:56:48
    Bill - Buffalo Soldier
    No disagreement really - three men waterboarded 6 years ago - this is more of a politcal tempest in a teapot than reality. More news journalists have been waterboarded now than we did. I dunno, I think we have tortured before, at least that is what my special forces pals tell me - but those things will never surface now. I think this is much more political ideology than reality. Now we have a POTUS and Sec of Stt. apologizing for Taliban acts - the ideology is a run away train. Just my take.
  • +1 raves
    madjack Bill - ... May 12, 2009 17:08:38
    madjack
    Good take too Bill.Your SF pals have ooperated among cultures where it is expected by the locals who are working with them.If it wasn't done they would lose their respect,and trust.It's been the same for centuries really.Early French explorers wrote of 'entertainments' provided them by various tribes that were friendly to them.
  • Greatbear100~support our vets
    Torture and prisoner abuse undermines the principles upon which this nation was founded. Simply put those who advocate this are supporting the premise that the ends justify the means. Would you do anything--steal,kill, extort, lie, etc.-- to advance yourself?
    In the long run we are less safe since we have alienated the rest of the world and must stand alone.
    Also, we have lost the moral high ground and can no longer critize others who do the same thing.
    Furthermore, torture and abuse build up hatred and create hardened enemies out of often innocent people.
    It is more important to support and defend the constitution, the rule of law, and the prinicples upon which this nation was founded above all else.
  • +1 raves
    Bill - ... Greatbe... May 12, 2009 16:29:21 (edited)
    Bill - Buffalo Soldier
    Great - we agree that these things do undermine. I abhor that the military internal investigation photos will be released - some 400 were charged with prisoner abuse. I find that I am proud that our military investigated itself but do not understand why folks chose to place more of our people in harms way (which this release will do) - And I am glad we have never tortured anyone (waterboarding as we conducted it with three prisoners 6 years ago is not torture) and I must add that in certain circumstances I would not be against it. Too many sound like the Rabbi's during the early stages of Hitler's siege on the Jews - theory and platitudes are not how the world is. Preaching that they should not fight back, and remain above the horror and millions died. Nope, while lovely to hear - no one should have listened. Since the beginning of time man has killed man, all the high blown phrases will not change that and I can assure you I will use every "dirty" weapon to keep me and mine alive.
  • +2 raves
    Mary Philliber May 12, 2009 13:39:04
    Mary Philliber
    Sometimes as a nation you will have to make tough decisions that will not make you popular with everyone else.
  • +4 raves
    Martha May 12, 2009 13:01:37
    Martha
    Good points made here. I wonder if the terrorists who cut off Nick Berg's and Daniel Perl's heads got any valuable information from them?
  • +2 raves
    Bill - ... Martha May 12, 2009 13:07:11
    Bill - Buffalo Soldier
    Thanks for responding - Sowell tels it like it is

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