Question US

Taking a stand for or against health care reform and the public option: Are you for or against?

Gramma Lil October 22, 2009 23:32:54

I just want to know if you are for or against health care reform and the public option. I'd also like to know why you are for or against it. Explain your reasons and please include links to your reason. I would really appreciate some input from both sides of this issue. I am trying to explain it to my 18 year old granddaughter and I want to give her the pros and cons of both sides of this issue so she can choose for herself which side she wants to be on.
Also could you please share this question with your other sodahead friends so I can get as much input as possible.
I am for health care reform w/public option because.......
I am for health care reform without a public option because......
I am against healthcare reform because......
This is what I think of health care reform......
I don't care one way or another because........
I don't feel like explaining but here are some links.....
You!
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  • +15 raves alonnastorm October 22, 2009 23:53:17
    alonnastorm

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    because its the right thing to do... health care reform wpublic option
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  • luigi1- in god we trust November 08, 2009 23:47:42
    luigi1- in god we trust

    This is what I think of health care reform......

    this is probably not a good time to be taking on more debts. we have no money coming in while out of control spending is going out.

    something has to give. something will give. we just can't continue to spend like drunken sailors.

    maybe, when the economy bounces back & we have a solid & vibrant tax base.
  • Spizzzo November 06, 2009 08:12:21
    Spizzzo

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    It's the right thing to do and it has the only chance of giving the private insurers some real competition!
  • Pseudonymious Rex October 27, 2009 20:24:21
    Pseudonymious Rex

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    By most metrics a robust public option increases the longevity of the population, decreases the percentage of GDP spent on health care, and increases quality of life.

    The fact that Americans spend more money for their health care and live shorter lives than their European counterparts is a shocking indictment of our current system.
  • Xuthus October 27, 2009 13:06:19
    Xuthus

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    Totally needed.
  • Darling Biscuits October 26, 2009 02:15:38
    Darling Biscuits

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    Insurance companies aren't out to help anyone. They're main goal is to make money. All Americans have the right to decent healthcare.
  • Laneia October 26, 2009 00:51:56
    Laneia

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    Not everyone can afford private health care insurance, or get it throught their place of employment. ER costs for the uninsured have already closed down several hospitals.
  • skull October 25, 2009 00:34:32
    skull

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    Should open more jobs ,because company will not have to pay half. That just one lest thing poor people would have to worry about . I know it the right thing to do..
  • +2 raves
    Ali ~ In My Heart I Trust ~ October 24, 2009 02:24:20 (edited)
    Ali ~ In My Heart I Trust ~

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    Truly? I would like universal, single payer health care. Short of that, the public option is the only thing that will keep the insurance companies in line.
  • +3 raves
    Cheryl October 24, 2009 01:25:30
    Cheryl

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    I have lived with "universal health care" and without............and I prefer "universal health care"!
  • +2 raves
    MindReader October 24, 2009 00:53:01
    MindReader

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    Healthcare is a utility like electrical power. It should be nationalized and regulated as such. health care reform wpublic option healthcare electrical power nationalized regulated
  • +4 raves
    ~ Health Care~ Success to A... October 23, 2009 17:53:56
    ~ Health Care~ Success to America!!

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    The perception of death panels by government run health care has been dismissed, and it's time to put a stop to insurance company death panels once and for all.
    Ya know, I really hate my job, and to think that I'm indentured to it because my wife and I have preexisting conditions is a farce. So many positives can come from a public option, we'd be fools to pass it up!
  • +2 raves
    Peggy October 23, 2009 17:49:20
    Peggy

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    A healthy american is a strong american. It will save thousands and insurance companies will just have to live off the interest from stole profits. Poor babies.
    Doctors will return to practicing medicine without onput from the insurance bottom line.
    Savings from insurance policy payments will be spent to stimulate the economy.
    A few less lobbist will control our government
    People will get the medical care they deserve!
  • +2 raves
    EDIE47 October 23, 2009 17:44:03 (edited)
    EDIE47

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    America should take care of their own. This issue has been beaten to death, for decades. We have no choice now. If nothing, I would like the industry to be better regulated, so abuses and run-away clauses in coverage, like "pre-existing conditions" for instance, could be eliminated.



    This is an example of the insurance co. value-system. I tried to find the CNN article, but it's not posted yet. It's 8 minutes long. Catch the first 3-4, and you get the idea.
  • +3 raves
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker October 23, 2009 15:05:47
    Bob™ the Union Ironworker

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    I will defer to the brilliant Robert Reich who I think gives a strong case
    Why We Need a Public Health-Care Plan
    Without the government as competition, the private sector has little incentive to improve.


    By ROBERT B. REICH

    Why has health-care reform stalled in Congress? Democrats, after all, control both Houses, and President Obama, whose popularity remains high, has made universal health care his No. 1 priority. What's more, an overwhelming majority of the public wants it. In the most recent Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll, 76% of respondents said it was important that Americans have a choice between a public and private health-insurance plan. In last week's New York Times/CBSNews poll, 85% said they wanted major health-care reforms.

    So why the stall? Mainly because Congress can't decide how to pay for it. The hardest blow came last week when the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated that the trial-balloon bill emerging from the Senate Health Committee would cost a whopping $1 trillion over 10 years and would cover only a fraction of Americans currently without health care. According to the CBO, another tentative bill, this one coming out of the Senate Finance Committee, would cost even more -- $1.6 trillion.

    That spells political trouble. Republicans who never b...




























    I will defer to the brilliant Robert Reich who I think gives a strong case
    Why We Need a Public Health-Care Plan
    Without the government as competition, the private sector has little incentive to improve.


    By ROBERT B. REICH

    Why has health-care reform stalled in Congress? Democrats, after all, control both Houses, and President Obama, whose popularity remains high, has made universal health care his No. 1 priority. What's more, an overwhelming majority of the public wants it. In the most recent Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll, 76% of respondents said it was important that Americans have a choice between a public and private health-insurance plan. In last week's New York Times/CBSNews poll, 85% said they wanted major health-care reforms.

    So why the stall? Mainly because Congress can't decide how to pay for it. The hardest blow came last week when the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated that the trial-balloon bill emerging from the Senate Health Committee would cost a whopping $1 trillion over 10 years and would cover only a fraction of Americans currently without health care. According to the CBO, another tentative bill, this one coming out of the Senate Finance Committee, would cost even more -- $1.6 trillion.

    That spells political trouble. Republicans who never batted an eye over George W. Bush's wild spending habits have become born-again fiscal hawks. Blue Dog Democrats are nervous about mounting deficits. Even the president admits that the flow of red ink in future budgets keeps him up at night.
    [Commentary] Corbis

    No one wants to raise taxes or even be accused of thinking about the subject. But honest politicians have to admit that universal health care will require additional revenues. The likeliest sources are limits on certain tax deductions and a cap on tax-free employer-provided health care. Would the public go along? The most intriguing finding in last week's New York Times/CBS poll was that most respondents said they would be willing to pay higher taxes to ensure everyone had health insurance.

    But before we even get to this point, it's important to recognize that those terrifying CBO cost projections significantly overstate the costs. They did not include potential cost savings from the lynchpin of health-care cost containment: a so-called public option that would give people who don't get health care from their employer the choice of a public insurance plan. Why? For the simple reason that the Senate committees hadn't yet agreed on a public option. Yet without a public option, the other parties that comprise America's non-system of health care -- private insurers, doctors, hospitals, drug companies, and medical suppliers -- have little or no incentive to supply high-quality care at a lower cost than they do now.

    Which is precisely why the public option has become such a lightening rod. The American Medical Association is dead-set against it, Big Pharma rejects it out of hand, and the biggest insurance companies won't consider it. No other issue in the current health-care debate is as fiercely opposed by the medical establishment and their lobbies now swarming over Capitol Hill. Of course, they don't want it. A public option would squeeze their profits and force them to undertake major reforms. That's the whole point.

    Critics say the public option is really a Trojan horse for a government takeover of all of health insurance. But nothing could be further from the truth. It's an option. No one has to choose it. Individuals and families will merely be invited to compare costs and outcomes. Presumably they will choose the public plan only if it offers them and their families the best deal -- more and better health care for less.

    Private insurers say a public option would have an unfair advantage in achieving this goal. Being the one public plan, it will have large economies of scale that will enable it to negotiate more favorable terms with pharmaceutical companies and other providers. But why, exactly, is this unfair? Isn't the whole point of cost containment to provide the public with health care on more favorable terms? If the public plan negotiates better terms -- thereby demonstrating that drug companies and other providers can meet them -- private plans could seek similar deals.

    But, say the critics, the public plan starts off with an unfair advantage because it's likely to have lower administrative costs. That may be true -- Medicare's administrative costs per enrollee are a small fraction of typical private insurance costs -- but here again, why exactly is this unfair? Isn't one of the goals of health-care cost containment to lower administrative costs? If the public option pushes private plans to trim their bureaucracies and become more efficient, that's fine.

    Critics complain that a public plan has an inherent advantage over private plans because the public won't have to show profits. But plenty of private plans are already not-for-profit. And if nonprofit plans can offer high-quality health care more cheaply than for-profit plans, why should for-profit plans be coddled? The public plan would merely force profit-making private plans to take whatever steps were necessary to become more competitive. Once again, that's a plus.

    Critics charge that the public plan will be subsidized by the government. Here they have their facts wrong. Under every plan that's being discussed on Capitol Hill, subsidies go to individuals and families who need them in order to afford health care, not to a public plan. Individuals and families use the subsidies to shop for the best care they can find. They're free to choose the public plan, but that's only one option. They could take their subsidy and buy a private plan just as easily. Legislation should also make crystal clear that the public plan, for its part, may not dip into general revenues to cover its costs. It must pay for itself. And any government entity that oversees the health-insurance pool or acts as referee in setting ground rules for all plans must not favor the public plan.

    Finally, critics say that because of its breadth and national reach, the public plan will be able to collect and analyze patient information on a large scale to discover the best ways to improve care. The public plan might even allow clinicians who form accountable-care organizations to keep a portion of the savings they generate. Those opposed to a public option ask how private plans can ever compete with all this. The answer is they can and should. It's the only way we have a prayer of taming health-care costs. But here's some good news for the private plans. The information gleaned by the public plan about best practices will be made available to the private plans as they try to achieve the same or better outputs.

    As a practical matter, the choice people make between private plans and a public one is likely to function as a check on both. Such competition will encourage private plans to do better -- offering more value at less cost. At the same time, it will encourage the public plan to be as flexible as possible. In this way, private and public plans will offer one another benchmarks of what's possible and desirable.

    Mr. Obama says he wants a public plan. But the strength of the opposition to it, along with his own commitment to making the emerging bill "bipartisan," is leading toward some oddball compromises. One would substitute nonprofit health insurance cooperatives for a public plan. But such cooperatives would lack the scale and authority to negotiate lower rates with drug companies and other providers, collect wide data on outcomes, or effect major change in the system.

    Another emerging compromise is to hold off on a public option altogether unless or until private insurers fail to meet some targets for expanding coverage and lowering health-care costs years from now. But without a public option from the start, private insurers won't have the incentives or system-wide model they need to reach these targets. And in politics, years from now usually means never.

    To get health care moving again in Congress, the president will have to be clear about how to deal with its costs and whether and how a public plan is to be included as an option. The two are intimately related. Enough talk. He should come out swinging for the public option.

    Mr. Reich, professor of public policy at the University of California at Berkeley and former Secretary of Labor under President Clinton, is the author of "Supercapitalism: The Transformation of Business, Democracy, and Everyday Life" (Alfred A. Knopf,
    (more)
  • +1 raves
    Gramma Lil Bob™ th... October 23, 2009 16:03:32
    Gramma Lil
    Thank you!
  • +2 raves
    on and on1 October 23, 2009 12:56:54
    on and on1

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    Health care reform with an option simply adds "more options" and may bring down third party insurance costs. It NEEDS to be an OPTION though!
  • +1 raves
    STU October 23, 2009 09:57:06
    STU

    None of the above

    This Country was built on people helping people.....
  • +1 raves
    Carl October 23, 2009 06:46:47
    Carl

    I am against healthcare reform because......

    the feds haven't addressed the Medicare shortfall.
  • +3 raves
    Snaps mom October 23, 2009 06:15:30
    Snaps mom

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    Public health insurance option would give Americans a real choice and not reward for-profit health insurers with 47 milllion new customers. Real health care reform that includes a public health insurance option would cut out the administrative waste of private insurers and begin changing the way health care is delivered. Public Option could adopt the kind of payment reforms that would start to “hold down long-term growth in health spending” and encourage providers to deliver care more efficiently. We know that premiums in the public option would be about 10 percent lower and that a real robust plan that piggy backs off of Medicare’s infrastructure could save us somewhere between $75 billion and $150 billion over 10 years.
  • +2 raves
    joshuaj21 Snaps mom October 23, 2009 06:24:59 (edited)
    joshuaj21
    Yes, I'm with you on public option healthcare reform, but it must include a repeal of this McCarren-Ferguson Act, Anti-Trust legilation, >>>>
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3...

    Then we will be A-Okay
    ---
  • +2 raves
    Snaps mom joshuaj21 October 23, 2009 06:26:43
    Snaps mom
    I agree
  • +1 raves
    Radlad October 23, 2009 05:44:48
    Radlad

    None of the above

    I'm for the federal governmant getting its damn nose out of the private sector and stop screwing it up. And to start doing what it is constitutionall required to do...............
  • +4 raves
    Not Einstein October 23, 2009 05:20:05
    Not Einstein

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    ...as the leader of the industrial world, the US should be the standard bearer of providing life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for her people. If those people are ill, with no ability to see medical personnel, the entire premise of this country is negated.

    Why are there 36 countries in the world which provide better health care to their inhabitants than us? This is an anomaly which needs to be addressed immediately.
  • +1 raves
    Ali ~ I... Not Ein... October 24, 2009 02:27:13
    Ali ~ In My Heart I Trust ~
    Exactly!
  • +2 raves
    mikeNOTvick October 23, 2009 04:41:40
    mikeNOTvick

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    Competition is good
  • +5 raves
    GeorgeR October 23, 2009 04:37:07
    GeorgeR

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    Only because universal single payer (USP) is not on the table. USP is the only real reform. The problem with healthcare is not only the gouging and manipulations by the insurance industry but that price is greatly inflated in a system of healthcare for the highest bidder. Public option does bring in competition but it does not eliminate it. Competition against the government will not bring the prices down as far as it could or should be if the health care providers will choose the highest payers as a priority for giving care over lower payers. The result is that government coverage costs will be inflated upwards rather than bring costs in general down. More taxes would be needed for the government to compete. There will always be those willing and able to pay more to get on the front of the line. Healthcare is an essential and should not be elevated to the status of a luxury or status system. USP removes the useless insurance industry profit margin altogether that drives the price for America to twice that of other nations without providing as much as a band aid. Only when everyone relies on the same system on an equal basis will everyone have the same reliance and need in making it work and work well. Capitalism only exists if the competition is perfect, that is so many produ...
    Only because universal single payer (USP) is not on the table. USP is the only real reform. The problem with healthcare is not only the gouging and manipulations by the insurance industry but that price is greatly inflated in a system of healthcare for the highest bidder. Public option does bring in competition but it does not eliminate it. Competition against the government will not bring the prices down as far as it could or should be if the health care providers will choose the highest payers as a priority for giving care over lower payers. The result is that government coverage costs will be inflated upwards rather than bring costs in general down. More taxes would be needed for the government to compete. There will always be those willing and able to pay more to get on the front of the line. Healthcare is an essential and should not be elevated to the status of a luxury or status system. USP removes the useless insurance industry profit margin altogether that drives the price for America to twice that of other nations without providing as much as a band aid. Only when everyone relies on the same system on an equal basis will everyone have the same reliance and need in making it work and work well. Capitalism only exists if the competition is perfect, that is so many producers that none of them can exert any pressure or influence on the supply and thus the price relationship. That is not existent where there are monopolies. Prices are inflated when supply is withheld below the actual need. It is also inflated when providers pad the services by unnecessary procedures and surgeries too. Providers should not be compensated by the procedures and surgeries they perform but rather on the basis of the number of patients they treat and the cure rate. That way they can’t pad the costs for the sake of profits and thus the incentive to pad is removed. Healthcare it too scarce and that does not make the insurance industry or the providers compete, it makes the consumer compete with higher prices.
    (more)
  • +3 raves
    Jannbana October 23, 2009 03:23:06
    Jannbana

    I am for health care reform w/public option because.......

    Gram, I am for a public option. With-out a not-for-profit choice and appropriate regulations, insurance companies will continue to strong arm us and keep on raising the costs while lowering the quality of coverage available.

    There are 47,000,000 people without coverage in this Country and 45,000 of them are dying needlessly every year because they have no health coverage. We are the richest Country in the world and this is a crime.

    83% of the people seeking out medical treatment at free clinics around the Country are employed. They have jobs but can't afford health insurance or it is no longer offered through their employer.

    Personally I used to pay $453 per month back in 2001 for a family plan that had a $1000 deductible and $10-$15 co-pays. Seemed pretty reasonable. Today I pay $953.18 per month with a $1500 deductible and $25-$50 co-pays. This is an increase of more than 130% in 8 years. Oh yes, certain doctors, labs and procedures are not covered. Did you know that Anesthesiologists are doctors? Yes, well they are and in many cases not covered and that a blood test to evaluate a person for high cholesterol and diabetes as part of a physical is lab work and may not be covered? This huge increase has made health insurance unsustainable for us and we will have to drop ...











    Gram, I am for a public option. With-out a not-for-profit choice and appropriate regulations, insurance companies will continue to strong arm us and keep on raising the costs while lowering the quality of coverage available.

    There are 47,000,000 people without coverage in this Country and 45,000 of them are dying needlessly every year because they have no health coverage. We are the richest Country in the world and this is a crime.

    83% of the people seeking out medical treatment at free clinics around the Country are employed. They have jobs but can't afford health insurance or it is no longer offered through their employer.

    Personally I used to pay $453 per month back in 2001 for a family plan that had a $1000 deductible and $10-$15 co-pays. Seemed pretty reasonable. Today I pay $953.18 per month with a $1500 deductible and $25-$50 co-pays. This is an increase of more than 130% in 8 years. Oh yes, certain doctors, labs and procedures are not covered. Did you know that Anesthesiologists are doctors? Yes, well they are and in many cases not covered and that a blood test to evaluate a person for high cholesterol and diabetes as part of a physical is lab work and may not be covered? This huge increase has made health insurance unsustainable for us and we will have to drop our health insurance in January and be added to the list of 47,000,000 uninsured in this great Country.

    Myth: socialism. Some people say a public option is socialist but this is incorrect. If it was a socialist based plan, everyone would HAVE to use the public option and everyone would be afforded the same benefits. A public option allows us to keep our current insurance plan if we are happy with it but gives us a choice if we can't afford our current plan or have none.

    Myth: takeover. A public option does not mean a government takeover of health care, it just means we will have a not-for-profit choice. In my opinion health care should have never been a FOR PROFIT business. People making money by denying other people treatment? This is the "fox watching the hen house" scenario.

    Another myth is that a public option will put private insurers out of business. Here are a couple of examples of why this is not true:
    1. The government ships packages as the United States Post Office but did it take over the shipping industry? No, it "competes" with UPS and Fed/EX. In fact, the private carriers are doing better than the USPS because there are so many people using e-mail now vs sending letters.
    2. The government runs public schools but did it take over institutionalized learning? No, it "competes" with private schools, academies and colleges.

    A public option provides competition in these areas and is necessary to maintain fair and balanced opportunities.

    It swirls my brain that health care for the people of the United States of America aka: the citizens, the work force, the employees and at the same time the employers of the United States of America, is not overwhelmingly promoted by Congress. I thought the Constitution said something about promoting the general welfare to ourselves and our prosperity. We are the taxpayers and should be offered a fair opportunity to care for ourselves and our families. We are not looking for a free ride. We want to contribute to a public option and pay our way. We just believe that with a not-for-profit public option moderating costs, we would be able to afford health insurance while contributing much more toward stimulating the economy and the Country.
    (more)
  • +1 raves
    Hobbes817 October 23, 2009 02:35:43
    Hobbes817

    I am for health care reform without a public option because......

    Do away with frivilous lawsuits would be a big step in the right direction. Public option is a HUGE mistake.
  • +1 raves
    mikeNOT... Hobbes817 October 23, 2009 04:42:15
    mikeNOTvick
    Why?
  • +4 raves
    GeorgeR Hobbes817 October 23, 2009 05:48:39
    GeorgeR
    Do away with malpractice insurance and the negligence it supports, funds and facilitates. Doctors who are negligent should be drummed out of practice altogether. Putting a cap on damages recovery is unconscionable when you can't cap the negligence and the harm that negligence actually causes. When they talk about tort reform they are talking about restricting a person's right to recover the damages caused them and when they talk about malpractice insurance they are talking about a paid for license, that the consumer pays, to be negligent for profit. No one brings frivolous lawsuits more than insurance companies seeking to prevent, or delay, paying the claims that they were paid to cover. Malpractice insurance is a scam. When doctors include the premiums they pay into their billing the consumer not only pays for that but also inherently pays the damages claims for the doctor's malpractice too. Doctors are very highly paid because they are suppose to be highly trained and skilled professionals. If they are not they should not be there at all, and the people should not be forced to essentially make them immune from accountability. As it is when a doctor is guilty of malpractice and even refused to right to practice in the state they just move across state lines an open shop again.
  • +3 raves
    EDIE47 GeorgeR October 23, 2009 16:31:21
    EDIE47
    I think Doctors with a good track record should be rewarded with lower premiums, while those with a bad record, either get kicked out or out-priced on malpractice. There are a lot of frivolous lawsuits, but that is for the judicial system to decide. Hello, BTW.
  • +1 raves
    GeorgeR EDIE47 October 25, 2009 02:29:22
    GeorgeR
    Good idea. The problem is we also need judicial reform too but that is another big topic.
  • +1 raves
    EDIE47 GeorgeR November 02, 2009 20:18:15
    EDIE47
    So much stuff is just so messed up! I beginning to wonder if this is normal for us now. Get used to it, or raise hell and try to change it (raise hell would be yours, BOC!).
  • +1 raves
    GeorgeR EDIE47 November 03, 2009 23:32:53
    GeorgeR
    Hi Edie. I think giving up is what will make it worse. Fighting back is the only way to stop them. But you are right the number of things to be fixed are mind boggling.
  • +1 raves
    EDIE47 GeorgeR November 04, 2009 14:48:58
    EDIE47
    I posted an article on FB, about Afghanistan. I just wish Obama would keep that one promise, about getting our troops out of Iraq, and Afghanistan. The cost of 1 month in Iraq, would insure every Americans' health for 1 year (read that somewhere). And, a couple of Republicans won Governorships in NJ & Virginia (big deal, I mean really... I'm not concerned), so watch the explosion of GOP hot air on here (RWNJ's), which you handle quite well BTW. No, I don't give up, ever, ever, never. I love my country. I just want our tired, beat-up, over-worked troops home with their family and friends, so they can start contributing here, not overseas. It was a joke and a insult, that fiasco the Bush Admin. stuck us with....almost bankrupting us to fund those two "wars". Good Wednesday morning to you as well.
  • +1 raves
    GeorgeR EDIE47 November 05, 2009 18:04:06
    GeorgeR
    Hi Edie, I agree with you. Well said. I am glad that Obama is not just jumping to any quick off the cuff decisions on sending more troops to Afghanistan. But in both cases Bush dragged us in with no real goal in specific or plans how to reach it or to get out again without leaving a huge hole. Afghanistan is even a bigger and worse problem than Iraq because there is no one to leave it two who can maintain it. They may have to try to bribe members of the Taliban to switch sides and take over. Whatever they do there are no good choices.
  • +1 raves
    EDIE47 GeorgeR November 06, 2009 19:13:59
    EDIE47
    Yeah, buddy. It sucks, and i feel for the guy. Sure, he got president, but look at this fr'n mess! Afghanistan has been on my mind a lot lately. Leave, and we fail and win... stay, and we fail 4 sure! MFG, even Genghis Khan failed there! No one who has ever went in there, has won, anything. And, what exactly are we winning? I say Afghanistan had more with the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the fall Of Russia, than Reagan ever did.
    Well, I read about the shooting in Texas. The GOP & RWNJs are drooling, ready to pander this horrible violence. Here the fuck we go again. Let's just get the F out of there, that's what I hope his advisers are saying. Then, you can say, I kept 1 promise. This may be my last message, so don't bother to reply. I know where to find you. Deactivating, by Sat. no later. Take care & stay you. I have met some great ppl on this site, including you, and it's nice to know I get to stay in touch. Off to earn that plug nickel.
  • GeorgeR EDIE47 November 06, 2009 22:29:03
    GeorgeR
    I think Obama wants out of both but Afghanistan may be more complicated. I don't think Obama sees any real chance to change much in Afghanistan but he has to worry about what is going on in Pakistan where al Qeada is and threatening to gain too much control there. If they gain strength there they would be very close to getting WMDs and even become a serious threat to India too. I think that is what's keeping us there because once we leave we would have no base to operate from there. We have no good options. We can’t trust the powers that be in Afghanistan or the balance of power in Pakistan either. We need to find the least of all evils.
  • +1 raves
    Bold Reality October 23, 2009 02:35:40
    Bold Reality

    I am against healthcare reform because......

    Keep the government out and open up the state borders and allow competition in and it will resolve itself.
  • +3 raves
    GeorgeR Bold Re... October 23, 2009 05:51:56
    GeorgeR
    Not in a long shot. It is that attitude that destroyed the usury laws. States should not have to compete with each other to get healthcare services in their own state and one state should not have the power to undermine and defeat the regulations of the others.
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