
Supreme Court Says Buy Health Insurance Or Be Taxed More. Do you agree?
Foxhound BN0
2012/06/28 14:15:13
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The Supreme court ruled that while Congress cannot make you get health insurance, you can be taxed more if you don't. Do you agree with their verdict?
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Top Opinion
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Philo-WHEREAREYOU,USA? 2012/06/28 16:43:27I disagree with the verdict.+35Completely unconstitutional. SCOTUS cannot institute a tax, neither can POTUS. Bad law, worse medicine. Welcome to the USSA, comrades!






















I do think those on the government dime not working, that are able to work should be taxed. They should be made to contribute like the rest. If fhey get a refund and live in government housing and go for free medical care....hell yes they should be taxed.
Thus, I believe more legislation needs to be added. Any state that refuses Medicaid expansion as part of it should not have to implement AHCA or the tax.
How are you supposed to pay for something if you don't have the money to pay for it? I get my healthcare insurance through work. What about the people in America who don't have jobs? I'm not an expert at this, I realize. I do know that some hospitals are making plans to clean clocks with this ruling.
The part I am having the most trouble with is, how did he get to the final answer, given the path he described.
It is like looking at a high school or collage math paper, were the steps must be shown. he got most of the steps right but ended up with the wrong answer. And it is the same wrong answer that the four students sitting closest to him got... In the classroom, this is called "evidence of cheating".
America - Land of the Sheep and Home of the Slave!
The simple question is this: Who should pay for John's hospital bill?
Should the hospital and doctors write off the expense as a loss? Should the hospital raise it's rates for those that are insured and that could afford care to keep from losing millions every year from patients like John?
To be honest, I do put personal liberty above economy, so I am one of the most biased people to discuss on this matter. You raise a good point, but I do not beleive it is good enough to justify taking away liberty for.
When everybody gets paid, the out of control costs this country sees now will decrease.
Something had to be done, and the problem had been growing for decades with no real solution, which is why I support the PPACA. The law is hardly perfect, but it is 1000 times better than doing nothing other than a tax credit for health care savings accounts, which would not have addressed the ever increasing costs of health care.
Tort reform was proposed in the initial health care bill, but was shot down by blue dog Democrats and it was kept out of it. In 2003, Texas passed medical tort reform putting a cap on malpractice suits of $250,000 for doctors and hospitals, and it did nothing to decrease the high costs of health care in Texas. What it did do is to increase profits for insurance companies, but those savings were not passed on to the overall costs of health care in that state.
And I would say that at least for the hospital system I work for, that is the case.
In that case, this law is going to punish a very few people who are barely squeaking by, and have no intention of living dangerously, and in fact, never use ER. They are just trying to eek out just enough take-home cash to live on. That is my only concern with the law.
Generally, individuals will be eligible for subsides in the form of premium tax credits and cost sharing assistance if their household income is 100–400 percent of FPL, and their share of employer-offered coverage (if applicable) exceeds 9.5 percent of their household income. Most individuals between 100–133 percent of FPL will be eligible for Medicaid and as such, ineligible for these subsidies. This is to help them pay their insurance premiums or cost sharing obligations (co-insurance or co-payments) under a plan they purchase through a state exchange.
(FPL):
For an individual
133% = $14,404
400% = $43,320
Family of four
133% = $29,326
400% = $88,200
What is needed in the future is to put some incentives for states to expand the Medicare provisions of the PPACA. This can be done through various ways, but the most logical is the threat of withholding federal funds for those states that decide to not comply.
RISING HEALTH CARE COSTS
Average annual premium contribution paid by workers with employer-provided health insurance.
Year Single coverage Family coverage
2007 $694 $3,281
2008 $721 $3354
2009 $779 $3,515
2010 $899 $3,997
2011 $921 $4,129
Source: Kaiser Family Foundation
2) If the nurse in your example single - less than $80/month should be affordable. If she has a family - then the gov't would need to foot a portion of that bill. Similar to the different tax rate structures for single vs. married filing jointly.
But again - these are the details. The big fish are: no denial due to PEC; no policy rescission, keeping kids on parents policies to 26 - and the necessary quid pro quo for these: a mandate. If the 1st 3 make sense from a policy standpoint - which again makes the mandate a requirement - the rest of the smaller issues are quite addressable.
Ok.....it's pretty straightforward stuff. Written in plain english. If you can't get it, I'm afraid someone else will need to help you.
Good luck.
Cost-plus reimbursement worked like this: If Blue Cross patients accounted for 25 percent of a hospital's patient days, Blue Cross reimbursed the hospital for 25 percent of its total costs. That's total operating expenses, from rent to security guards to everything. If Medicare patients accounted for 30 percent of the hospital's patient days, then Medicare paid the hospital 30 percent of its ...
Cost-plus reimbursement worked like this: If Blue Cross patients accounted for 25 percent of a hospital's patient days, Blue Cross reimbursed the hospital for 25 percent of its total costs. That's total operating expenses, from rent to security guards to everything. If Medicare patients accounted for 30 percent of the hospital's patient days, then Medicare paid the hospital 30 percent of its total costs. Other insurers reimbursed in much the same way.
This has been the primary driver for the out of control health care costs in this country, and those costs have sky rocketed from $256 billions in 1980 to $2.6 trillions in 2010.
As to the answer to your question, if the CNA's insurance premiums exceeds 9.5% of her income, then she will be eligible for a tax credit. If she has a family of four making $26,000 a year, 9.5% of her income would be $2,470, and if her insurance premiums or out of pocket expenses were $4,129, then she can write off $1,759 off her tax returns. If she were single and making $26,000 and her insurance premiums were $921, then she would have no write offs or deductions.
The point of the PPACA is to make health care AFFORDABLE for everybody. If a person makes $200,000 a year, then they can afford health insurance. The CBO projected that by 2025, in just 13 years, if the PPACA were not passed, health care would cost 25% of GDP on a yearly basis. That would be about $5 trillions a year, and those kinds of costs would be unsustainable in this country. Health insurance premiums would be double what they are today.
Here is the break down
26,000
-
6500 (taxes + ss+medicaid)
-
4,129 (health insurance)
+
1,759 (tax writeoff)
------------------
Is that right?
A single woman earning 26,000
-65000 (taxes, ss medicaid)
-3,000 (health insurance)
----------------------
Is this right?
You see I have been this woman before. I don't drink, or use drugs and never have. I tread on life softly and I am healthy and I made the decision to not have health insurance, when I was young, because it would have made the difference between groceries and electricity.
I earn a nice wage currently. I have very good health benefits. I just remember that there was a time in my life that the amount of money you seem to view as chump change was my daily bread.
And I am going to tell you right now that the kinds of people that come into my lab using blood products and expensive trauma services because they got into a drunken brawl are not going to be carrying health insurance. You are not going to be able to make them. They don't care about tax write offs. The probably don't work anyway, and they won't be filling out tax forms come April. The person that you are going to be hurting is the woman that is mopping up the mess the thug makes on the ER floor.
And I have to admit th...
Here is the break down
26,000
-
6500 (taxes + ss+medicaid)
-
4,129 (health insurance)
+
1,759 (tax writeoff)
------------------
Is that right?
A single woman earning 26,000
-65000 (taxes, ss medicaid)
-3,000 (health insurance)
----------------------
Is this right?
You see I have been this woman before. I don't drink, or use drugs and never have. I tread on life softly and I am healthy and I made the decision to not have health insurance, when I was young, because it would have made the difference between groceries and electricity.
I earn a nice wage currently. I have very good health benefits. I just remember that there was a time in my life that the amount of money you seem to view as chump change was my daily bread.
And I am going to tell you right now that the kinds of people that come into my lab using blood products and expensive trauma services because they got into a drunken brawl are not going to be carrying health insurance. You are not going to be able to make them. They don't care about tax write offs. The probably don't work anyway, and they won't be filling out tax forms come April. The person that you are going to be hurting is the woman that is mopping up the mess the thug makes on the ER floor.
And I have to admit that I don't know that much about health costs. I know nurses and CNAs get worked to the bone. They are certainly making budget cuts in labs. If there is money to be scrimped, trust me, it is getting done--at least in not-for-profit hospitals.
I too worked for a non-profit hospital (Childrens) for two years in the business offices, and have worked in the health care industry for 16 years. Seven years in a big city medical group, and seven years for one of the top five health insurance companies. So I have seen all aspects of health care from three perspectives.
Here is the Kaiser data that breaks down the costs of health care in this country, and how it has grown in the last thirty years, and what the PPACA does to address those costs.
http://www.kaiseredu.org/Issu...
If the PPACA were not passed, health care costs would bankrupt this country in less than a decade.
One more thing. Just because you have health insurance doesn't mean that you are not vulnerable to bankruptcy do to a medical condition. Check out this study done by Harvard Medical School on bankruptcy due to excessive medical costs.
http://www.businessweek.com/b...
In addition, $75.00 per month is too much for a young person in a low paying job. I don't pay that much. I pay roughly $13.00 a month for my health-care insurance, in spite of the fact that I earn much more than the young CNA working her rear-end off at the low end pay of health-care workers.
And it is much too expensive for anyone who who doesn't have a job. Now you mentioned that 99% of the uninsured now, will be insured by 2014. How? By criminalizing them? Because this is not acceptable. The young CNA with a take-home pay of $19500 is going to be paying for health-insurance (which at her young age, she likely won't need) and even if her insurance is $75.00/month, that is still going to come out of her monthly expenses--more likely food bills, since food bills are more flexible than rent and utilities.
Nonworking people won't be able to pay for insurance at all. Are you willing to criminalize them? And I guarantee you that most...
In addition, $75.00 per month is too much for a young person in a low paying job. I don't pay that much. I pay roughly $13.00 a month for my health-care insurance, in spite of the fact that I earn much more than the young CNA working her rear-end off at the low end pay of health-care workers.
And it is much too expensive for anyone who who doesn't have a job. Now you mentioned that 99% of the uninsured now, will be insured by 2014. How? By criminalizing them? Because this is not acceptable. The young CNA with a take-home pay of $19500 is going to be paying for health-insurance (which at her young age, she likely won't need) and even if her insurance is $75.00/month, that is still going to come out of her monthly expenses--more likely food bills, since food bills are more flexible than rent and utilities.
Nonworking people won't be able to pay for insurance at all. Are you willing to criminalize them? And I guarantee you that most of the people who use very expensive trauma procedures in the ER are not going to have jobs. They might earn income, but it isn't taxable. And they aren't going to care about being criminalized. They aren't going to care about carrying insurance.
The other group of high frequency use of ERs are people who use ER for routine medical care. I want to even say, they use it for nothing. They come in for nonmedical uses, and bring their children in for issues that I would have prescribed bed-rest and chicken soup for my own children. They are not going to be insured either. The state, whether federal or state, will still be paying for the medical care of them and their children
I understand that your "John" should carry insurance. He also shouldn't drink. He should be penalized for drinking and driving. The alcohol industry should be penalized for selling a nuisance product.
But I think this fellow is rare among the uninsured folks. I think that most uninsured folks are unemployed, or earning minimal wages, and this law, which criminalized them for not having insurance, is going to be placing an undue burden on struggling folks.
You are right in that many that don't have insurance are using the ER for routine medical procedures, and the ER is the second most expensive kind of health care there is next to the ICU. That is why mandatory insurance is necessary - to get those people into doctors offices for preventative care and out of the ER.
You are wrong about the majority of the uninsured being unemployed. Hispanics make up the largest demographic group without insurance next to whites, while most are employed in industries that do not offer employer provided health care, like construction, agriculture, and the service industry. In 2004, 46% of all the uninsured were employed full time, while another 28% were employed part time. That's 72% of the uninsured that were either employed full or part time.
http://aspe.hhs.gov/health/re...
The PPACA does not criminalize anybody. If an individual is unemployed or under employed, the government steps in and provides health care for them, either through Medicaid or through the state run health care exchange system, depending on their income.
Based on the chart figures of there being 45.8 million uninsured, 21.068 million of these people are uninsured because they are working part-time or not working. Is that accurate?
25.29/45.8/100 8.702/45.8/100 12.36/45.8/100
These 21.068 million individuals will receive state and or federal aid, or just state aid?
edit, my apologies:
8.702/45.8/100 + 12.36/45.8/100 =21.068
http://www.usatoday.com/news/...
in 2014, 99% of Americans will have health insurance. That is one of the reasons for the law, to assure that healthy young Americans pay into the system to help offset the high costs of health care for everybody. Right now those that have insurance are paying for those that don't have it through their higher premiums.
According to the Census Bureau's 2005 Current Population Survey (CPS), there were 45.8 million uninsured individuals in 2004, or 15.7% of the civilian non-institutionalized population
In any case this is what I would be appreciative if you would explain to me. I have a job that offers insurance. It will be no problem at all for my employer to take the money from my paycheck and subtract it for my insurance. It will be automatic. I won't even have to think about it.
But there are some jobs that don't offer insurance. There are "day jobs" where men and women get paid by the day, from different employers. There are self-employed women that babysit children, or tend to the elderly. All sorts of these types of jobs. How is the government going to insure that all of these people get insurance?
The difference, I suppose, that I am thinking about, is that when I was poor, I didn't drive. I didn't pay for a car, and I didn't pay for insurance. I took the city bus and I walked. But poor people have to live.
https://www.cia.gov/library/p...
I see no reason why the US should not be in the top ten countries in the world with the lowest infant mortality rates. The primary cause is that the uninsured do not receive proper pre-natal care, and after the PPACA goes into effect in 2014, they will receive proper pre-natal care, and our infant mortality rate will decrease. The same thing applies to life expectancy. The US is 50th in the world in life expectancy rates at 78.49 years. I would like to see the United States in the top ten countries with the highest life expectancy, along with Monaco, Macau, Japan, Singapore, San Marino, Andorra, Guernsey, Hong Kong, Australia and Italy, all of which have rates of 81.86 years or higher.
https://www.cia.gov/library/p...
The United State...
https://www.cia.gov/library/p...
I see no reason why the US should not be in the top ten countries in the world with the lowest infant mortality rates. The primary cause is that the uninsured do not receive proper pre-natal care, and after the PPACA goes into effect in 2014, they will receive proper pre-natal care, and our infant mortality rate will decrease. The same thing applies to life expectancy. The US is 50th in the world in life expectancy rates at 78.49 years. I would like to see the United States in the top ten countries with the highest life expectancy, along with Monaco, Macau, Japan, Singapore, San Marino, Andorra, Guernsey, Hong Kong, Australia and Italy, all of which have rates of 81.86 years or higher.
https://www.cia.gov/library/p...
The United States is the greatest country in the world, and I believe it's time that our health care statistics reflect that greatness.
There might be other reasons that other countries have higher life expectancies. I'd have to think about that.
In any case, thank you for talking to me. I'm trying to learn about this law, like everyone else in the country. I hope it gets tweaked so that it isn't an undue burden on the poor, and I hope that it doesn't give hospitals and insurance companies too much power over people's right to choose other options for health care. This is America, and most people like to decide some issues for themselves. I think some health matters are one of those hot topics, that Americans tend to want to keep their options open.
The PPACA makes health care affordable and available to the poor like no other legislation in history, and it will lower the ever increasing health care costs in this country, which was exactly the point of the law. While the legislation is hardl...
The PPACA makes health care affordable and available to the poor like no other legislation in history, and it will lower the ever increasing health care costs in this country, which was exactly the point of the law. While the legislation is hardly perfect, it is far better than any other serious proposals made in the past. The PPACA will do for the poor what Medicare did for the elderly in 1965. Prior to 1965, health insurance was not affordable for seniors, just as it is not affordable to the poor today. All that will change in 2014, and I look forward to it happening. Today the health insurance companies control availability and access to health care, and their monopoly will end in 2014, while they still will make decent profits for themselves and their stock holders.