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Socialists United... Have You Joined?

chaoskitty123 2012/07/01 19:42:24
There's a group here on Sodahead that I keep being invited to and that a friend of mine accepted just to see who was there. What he found he said proves what I have been saying is true because many of it's members claim to be Liberals and Progressives but everywhere else deny they are Socialists or Communists.

From the beginning of Liberalism in this country, there has been a problem where Liberals did not want to associate or be part of the Socialist / Communist movements. There is proof that Liberals we what we would call "rightwing" Liberals because those opposed to Socialism and Communism were "to the right" of these leftwing movements even if they themselves embraced leftwing views. But these Liberals were only majority leftwing and many of them may have, in fact, been majority rightwing in their views at the time.

The problem was that as these Socialist and Communist groups emerged and collapsed, they joined the Democrat Party where they claimed to be Liberals and Progressives. The Communist elements began calling themselves Progressives because they viewed their cause as progressive but everything else in this country, they basically spat on which is why Progressives began to be further and further isolated. As I point out, Progressive Republicans like Teddy Roosevelt and JD Rockefeller prove Progressives weren't all like this, there were rightwing Progressives as well who supported progress... the progress of industry, progress of wealth gathering, progress for social change and yet... they used government only to a degree to achieve their cause and then removed government turning things over to the private sector where it could be.

But the rightwing Liberals saw this happening and during the Great Depression, they broke away calling themselves New Conservatives... the future Neoconservative Democrats who would continue calling themselves Neocon and Liberal interchangeably not wishing to give up on their rightwing Liberal identity until they gave up on the Democrats altogether as the Republicans moved hard right in the 60's and the Democrats seemed doomed to fall completely to the left as rightwing Democrats failed to purge themselves of Socialists and Communists.

The Socialist Party of America formed in 1901 and by the 1960's, this once powerful third party had virtually no members left as they had all become Democrats calling themselves Liberals. True Liberals had stood against Socialism and Communism. In fact, most of the legislation written during the Red Scare was written by Liberals like Ronald Reagan who was working in Hollywood reporting Communists and Socialists trying to use Hollywood to influence America moviegoers. When the SPA finally dissolved, all of it's members became Liberal Democrats and seeing this take place led the Neocons to become Republicans. True Liberals began becoming Moderates swelling the number of Moderates in the Democratic Party and Centrist Democrats because between 30% to 40% of their views are rightwing.

What the left doesn't understand is that by proclaiming themselves leftwing within the Democratic Party means you are viewed as Socialist or Communist even by fellow Democrats. The problem with Socialism is that Socialists are almost entirely leftwing where Communists are entirely leftwing... but the vast overwhelming majority of Americans are rightwing or right leaning.

Thus, the left always acts confused why so many Americans oppose them... it's because if you align with the devil then you become the devils seed sowers and while this is a metaphor atheists would disapprove, it is a metaphor they nonetheless understand. Americans do have support for social idealism, we just don't have support for what Socialists themselves believe and promote.

In studying how left and right like to attack one another as Fascists and Nazi's, it's ironic that neither sides explores what this actually means.

The Nazi's were a workers union. The Brownshirts were overwhelmingly leftwing. It was largely because the Brownshirts were leftwing that the largely rightwing German military required they be brought down by Hitler to have their support... thus, the Night of Long Knives where Hitler purged the leadership of the Brownshirts. Remember, at this time it was thought by many on the right that Hitler could be controlled which is what Fritz von Papen thought when he proposed Hitler be made Chancellor of Germany to Hindenburg (because Papen was the former Chancellor who saw Hitler as a puppet for him to regain power). The German people were also majority rightwing by a huge margin... this is why many historians try to claim the Nazi's were rightwing when many of these historians are themselves leftwing.

The facts speak for themselves. Mussolini was a Fascist and Hitler did adopt Fascism early on to appease the right as Fascism was viewed as rightwing because it gave power to corporations, embraced Plutocracy and Capitalism thrived under this system. But Fascism gave too much power to these groups so that as Italy entered WWII, Mussolini couldn't get his corporations to build him any modern war machines so he fought most of the war with WWI material. Mussolini couldn't even get his soldiers to fight as they deserted and often refused to carry out his orders surrendering in many cases to avoid battle completely because they did not support the madman who sent them into war.

But Hitler abandoned Fascism early on, his loyal Nazi leaders like Himmler hated Fascism, he eliminated the unions because the Nazi's themselves were a union wanting to eliminate their competition (much as we see the SEIU doing today) and while Capitalists were allowed to make profit... they had to pay Hitler 10% for his personal fortune, they had to obey everything the Nazi's told them to do and those who did not were killed or sent to concentration camps... does that sound like a free market system or anything akin to what we understand about Capitalism when the left today accuses them of controlling everything about our government?

The Nazi's embraced science over religion and while they spoke of religion, over 80% of Germans were Christian and if the church stood united against Hitler, the people would rebel. Hitler understood the need to control the Christian element and wrote Mein Kampf with this in mind... most forget that Mein Kampf was written as a book of propaganda meant to be sold to the German people who would never have accepted it if it was leftwing. You must look at what they did when they came to power to determine their ideological views as they were environmentalists, animal rights activists, they supported atheism and the occult, their welfare system and barbaric medical research programs were all based on leftwing ideals which survive even today almost word for word with groups like PETA reminding us of the horrid duplicity of their views.

PETA promotes kindness and compassion for animals to the point they take abused animals from caring homes where people might not have the means to properly care for them but love the animals nonetheless... they remove them because of how they are treated and then upwards to 95% of all the animals they take in are killed by PETA which takes in tens of millions of dollars from people who want to save these animals. Is this what PETA spends it's money on? No, they spend it on ad campaigns and waste the money on themselves.

PAWS is a not for profit organization that rescues animals with a No Kill policy who have far less resources than PETA and yet, they miraculously keep these animals alive with only a small number being killed because they are diseased or cannot be saved. They have dogs with two legs, blind cats and animals with all manner of disability and yet, they are supported by Americans from all walks of life from religious groups to atheists putting as many of these animals in foster care as they can and paying to help pet owners who love their four legged friends with healthcare and food. Ironically,

PAWS makes no political statement but reaches out to everyone where PETA is extremely leftwing and we see the result... like the Nazi's, PETA uses the cause of animal welfare to put money in their pockets, promotes the exact same legislation the Nazi's wrote and they kill 95% of all the pets they take in.

Tell me again that the Nazi's were rightwing!

A true Liberal would support PAWS and condemn PETA to the point they would be marching on every PETA shelter to shut them down for this abomination they commit every day. PAWS proves that no animal taken into a shelter needs to be put to death if they can survive... it's only a matter of finding people to adopt them or take them in like foster children to provide them with life.

What if we used PETA's philosophy for human children? There would be no question of how it would be identified with Nazi Germany and with evil. Instead of foster care and providing for animals like PAWS does, they would be killing up to 95% of all human children taking them from the poor rather than trying to help the poor better provide for them. Hitler and the Nazi's professed similar words where their people were concerned... then sent the old, the disabled and mentally ill to be mercilessly experimented upon or killed alongside the Jews. This is why many say it is a lie that six million Jews died in the concentration camps because it wasn't just the Jews by any measure... they just got most of the publicity for being the largest group sent to these death camps... the rest became forgotten.

The left forgets how they once embraced eugenics, a science based ideology best stated as survival of the fittest with all those deemed undesirable, mentally ill or enfeebled by age being put to death or convinced to end their lives through deception. they forget this wasn't just in Nazi Germany... but right here in the United States with blacks, the mentally ill and even criminals locked up behind bars often forgotten... all became victims of inhuman medical experiments, were sterilized or killed no different than what the Nazi's did.

Abortion is an issue these same people promoted with people like Margaret Sanger creating Planned Parenthood targeting poor and minority communities not because they didn't have the money or knowledge of birth control... but because they are undesirables. Liberals like Sanger even identified poverty as mental illness and that the poor were breeding like cockroaches... thus, they became undesirables as well due to elitism. This is why black women have two to three times as many abortions as white women and it was the Nazi's asking who would pay to take care of all these people... certainly not the Aryan race and yet the left doesn't even see this as they angrily attack asking who is going to pay to take care of the unborn if we allow them to be born!

Abortion has it's place where necessary, but the idea that it's a womans body has been a battle cry from the left... it's the center and right that say yes, it is a womans body AND SHE'S RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT SHE DOES WITH IT!

The political right has it's problems such as with abortion fighting to prevent abortion where the mother has been raped or could die if the unborn fetus isn't aborted... but most Americans lean to the right and support the mainstream right over the extreme right.

The Democrats ruled this country for almost 80 years after the US Civil War by possessing the majority white vote promoting racism and white supremacy. It was politically correct to do so. Because the Republicans came to possess this rightwing vote, Democrats have made great mileage accusing them of racism. But not all racists switched from the Democratic Party to the Republicans as you can review the Dixiecrats and you'll find almost all of them remained Democrats. Blacks were scapegoated for all the pain of the US Civil War so that racism and segregation emerged all across the US and not just in the South... it was as bad or even worse everywhere. But it fits a stereotype and stereotypes are used for political gain.

The Neocons were the largest group to switch sides in the 60's and 70's but they were not accepted by Republicans who remembered who the Neocons were even in the 80's where being labelled a Neocon could cost Republicans elections among Republican voters. Only when it was clear that Republicans no longer remembered what a Neocon was and accepted them as Conservative by name identification would Neocons emerge to gain control over Republicans like Liberals once held over Democrats before the Neocons bolted. Progressives then began to take over the leftwing Democrats with those so confused about their ideological views that on name alone, they accept that their views are more progressive than Republicans or rightwingers and thus, they are Progressives. No, Communists took over the name Progressive decades ago and those on the left who need reminded what a true Progressive is need only look at Teddy Roosevelt and JD Rockefeller who were opposed to almost everything todays leftwing Progressives claim to believe in... while almost everything todays leftwing Progressives claim to believe in is identical with old school Communism.

If you receive an invitation to this group... take it. Join to see who the members are and leave. When they then claim not to be Socialists on the forums here, ask them about this and toss back at them what they say in this group.

If they're going to invite you to the group, you have the right to join just as you have the right to leave. You have a right to know when people lie to you about who they are and what they believe. They have a right to believe what they want... they do not have a right to deceive you into thinking them something different than they really are.

Do you know what your ideological views are? Just as it's important to vote for candidates with true leadership ability rather than just to beat the other side, it is important to define and know what your beliefs are.

The people joining Socialists United understand this and those who join to stay are admitting they are, and wish to be known as, Socialists.

Are you a Conservative? Saying you are means nothing if you don't understand what a Conservative is. Are you a Liberal? A Progressive? A Libertarian?

These aren't just names you pull out of a hat people and they are not groups where because they tell you what you want to hear... you join up and call yourselves one of them. Every ideology has an established set of rules and views which define who they are. I call myself a Centrist because it allows me the freedom to be who I am and to side with others not based on some set of beliefs, but because I agree with them or support them for who they are and what they represent... in a worst case scenario, I align with one side against the other when one side is more correct than the other. I opposed Bush and the Republicans who gave him blind support... I do no different with Obama and his blind sheep.

Being a Centrist is liberating because I am an Independent Centrist and if you think I oppose you or support "the other side", maybe you need to look at why I do this.

Unlike most, I can call myself a true American because being an American is about Liberty and Freedom. It is also about educating yourself, getting an education and not persecuting others for their beliefs... expose them where they are wrong, oppose them where you strongly disagree, but always remember that the "common good" is what makes us American and that includes all of us right left and center.

Leftwing Democrats more than any prove they are Un American for one simple reason... every single time the Democrats come to power, leftwing Democrats go on the attack alienating Republicans as a whole but then, they go on the attack against rightwing Democrats and any centrist or moderate who agree with the Democrat right even if on just one issue. Since Obama was elected, it's been the Democrat left that's demanded everyone in the Democratic Party follow them to a point that if you don't... you are essentially excommunicated and viewed as an enemy. Republicans don't have this problem because they are almost entirely rightwing and can tell Liberal Republicans to join their Liberal Democrat counterparts. But the Democrats are left right and center so that when the left goes on one of these ego trips, they serve only to split their party against itself and just how stupid is that!
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  • safari 2012/07/01 20:12:49 (edited)
    safari
    +7
    Nice article.

    You said "almost everything today's left-wing Progressives claim to believe in is identical with old school Communism. " NAILED IT with that one Chaos Kitty. That there are people claiming not to be socialists but who are on here isn't surprising. It goes to show the mentality of deception prevalent in the left. What is worse are those who are claiming to be right wing (under nefarious profiles) but who are the same people real right wingers battle with every day under their "more" honest lefty profiles. Those people really make me sick. They play games with conservatives minds using drama and distraction with an end game to drive them nuts, waste their time or remove them from the site by either running them off or tag teaming them with button pushing and reports.

    You said "But the Democrats are left right and center so that when the left goes on one of these ego trips, they serve only to split their party against itself and just how stupid is that!"

    Well - the one thing no one ever claimed about the democrats is that they have the slightest ability to exercise any common sense at all.

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  • John Davenport 2012/07/09 06:27:50 (edited)
    John Davenport
    The group was created as sort of a big tent for leftists and anyone interested in the topic. Most of the members of the group are likely social democrats or democratic socialists, however, the group is open to anyone, so the far left can join the group too. The Democratic party did not always have the support of labour, nor was embedded liberalism part of its ideology. But today, in the height of neoliberalism, where even social democratic reform is considered radical, the centre-left is mostly preoccupied with the same questions they have been dealing with for 30 years: identity politics. A handful of progressive Democrats in the party came out of the left movements of the 1960s and early 1970s. The real heart of the socialist movement within the United States rested in a section of the working class labour movement, which had no party. This movement was never completely absorbed into either party and nor should it be. Heck, socialists were supporters of the Republican party at one point in the early 20th century and switching over (back and forth) to the Democratic party for Woodrow Wilson because "he kept us out of the war." If we were to go back in time, would the reform left or 'social democrats' (which was a novelty back then) support the Progressive Party in 1912? Yes (...
    The group was created as sort of a big tent for leftists and anyone interested in the topic. Most of the members of the group are likely social democrats or democratic socialists, however, the group is open to anyone, so the far left can join the group too. The Democratic party did not always have the support of labour, nor was embedded liberalism part of its ideology. But today, in the height of neoliberalism, where even social democratic reform is considered radical, the centre-left is mostly preoccupied with the same questions they have been dealing with for 30 years: identity politics. A handful of progressive Democrats in the party came out of the left movements of the 1960s and early 1970s. The real heart of the socialist movement within the United States rested in a section of the working class labour movement, which had no party. This movement was never completely absorbed into either party and nor should it be. Heck, socialists were supporters of the Republican party at one point in the early 20th century and switching over (back and forth) to the Democratic party for Woodrow Wilson because "he kept us out of the war." If we were to go back in time, would the reform left or 'social democrats' (which was a novelty back then) support the Progressive Party in 1912? Yes (had there not been a Eugene Debs, who ran a similar platform on the Socialist ticket). Lets not forget that it was Lincoln who said that capital and labour should be on an equal footing. The same Lincoln who admired the utopian Socialists in Europe and who was congratulated by Karl Marx on behalf of the First International Workingmen’s Association for his victory. Even Thomas Paine admired early socialists and Helen Keller was a member of the party. Even Frederick Douglass ran on the social democratic Equal Rights Party. Does this mean that socialism did not have to deal with racism, sexism or homophobia within the movement? No, but this is hardly unique to socialism. Margaret Sanger has neo-Malthusian roots, one of the prevailing streams of her day. Scientific racism was used to justify forced sterilization by the state, but Margaret Sanger came up with the alternative proposal which was to hand out birth control to provide black women control over their bodies, instead of the state. Was her policy of eugenics racist? Well, even liberals like Jesse Jackson and radicals like Angela Davis were saying so in the 70s because she accepted the scientific racism of her day, but challenged it on a different front. Today, her views are not relevant as we know that they were based on discredited science. And what about the old question about were the Nazis left wing? It really is not relevant to America, but I'll answer it. Revolutionary socialism was gaining momentum in Germany at the time. The two main opposition parties were the Social Democratic and the Communist party, support was thrown behind the Nazis from industrialists. If the Nazis were socialists, then please explain to me why Hitler had to go through the trouble of organizing what is now known as the Secret Meeting of 20 February 1933 for the industrialists? Capitalism was saved by the Nazis. But in the end of the day, what matters is our present day situation. "If there is no struggle, there is no progress." The real tasks for socialists in America is to organize for the betterment of our class, the working class, the majority of America. Productivity has continued to rise while wages for working people have stagnated. We cannot let this trend to continue.
    (more)
  • Lydecho Rain (Лидия) 2012/07/03 01:55:16
    Lydecho Rain (Лидия)
    +1
    I'm not a liberal but I am a communist/socialist. There's a difference. And I'm NOT scared to admit it.
  • edifyguy 2012/07/03 01:40:53
    edifyguy
    Wow....as usual, a long read, but very worthwhile. I actually lost a "friend" over it because I insisted he stop inviting me to that sordid group. Oh well. He was an idiot......and probably still is.

    Unfortunately, a huge chunk of our voters in this country are also idiots......they truly can't comprehend that elections are about principles of Liberty, not some popularity contest! People complain about the need for campaign finance reform (again...) but the truth is that an informed electorate could never be swayed by any amount of money. The fact that money does sway elections merely proves that our elections have been reduced to the level of American Idol. Men of Merit bled and died for this nation's Liberty, and this "battle of charlatans for the votes of idiots" spits on their graves and curses their memory.
  • Frank 2012/07/02 17:24:04
    Frank
    Excellent article, I just can't join something I have no interest.....
  • Arizona1950 2012/07/02 02:28:45
    Arizona1950
    "Unlike most, I can call myself a true American because being an American is about Liberty and Freedom. It is also about educating yourself, getting an education and not persecuting others for their beliefs... expose them where they are wrong, oppose them where you strongly disagree, but always remember that the "common good" is what makes us American and that includes all of us right left and center."

    Well said Chaos. Thank you.

    Republicans / Libertarians / Independents believe in individuals. They believe each person is responsible for his or her own place in society. Individuals are encouraged by work to secure the benefits of society for themselves, their families, and for those who are unable to care for themselves.

    Socialism / Communists / Progressives and the Democratic Party no longer believe in individuals. They believe in collectivism a philosophy more willing to subordinate individual rights to the assumed needs of the group. They assume that society is collectively responsible for each of its members. They place less emphasis on individual enterprise and initiative.

    The problem with the Neocon is they have infiltrated all parties today and have really muddied the waters and the purity of each party and their direction.
  • stormy rae 2012/07/01 22:46:36
    stormy rae
    +1
    will not be joining anything suporting the obama
  • Teri- Oregon 2012/07/01 22:38:18
    Teri- Oregon
    +1
    they need to go to Russia or china if they want their free stuff
  • Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆ 2012/07/01 22:28:06
    Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆
    +1
    An excellent article. And I fully agree with its premises and conclusions.
  • NoBama Man 2012/07/01 21:49:07
    NoBama Man
    +1
    I am invited almost DAILY....it is the same screaming group of people we have to listen to in every post...what I have noticed is that they are now figuring out that they have already made progressive, and liberal a dirty word...so now they are confiscating the moniker of 'Moderate'...
  • Magnus ☮ RP ☮ 2012 ☮ 2012/07/01 21:26:29
    Magnus ☮ RP ☮ 2012 ☮
    +1
    "Are you a Conservative? Saying you are means nothing if you don't understand what a Conservative is." Exceptionally true. And that is why, seeing as a fair few of them (ALL of them actually in Offices of Government) don't know what they are SUPPOSED to be and stand for anymore, I'm Constitutionalist. Cuts out all the incidences of mistaken identity. Or well, would if SH had a type-in for "Political Views" if not downright providing that as an option in the first place... dammit.

    I'd never file rank behind the likes of this, though... EVER...

    sh type-in political views downright providing option dammit file rank
  • texasred 2012/07/01 21:11:26
    texasred
    +3
    Excellent post. CK. Thank you!
  • belle 2012/07/01 20:49:39
    belle
    +3
    I want nothing to do with a demo group in any manner.
  • Mopvyto 2012/07/01 20:45:37
    Mopvyto
    SodaHead Progressives

    Join the group if you would like to.

    SodaHead Progressives http://www.sodahead.com/unite...
  • jackolantyrn356 2012/07/01 20:33:54
    jackolantyrn356
    +2
    I'd rather be dead
  • Gracie - Proud Conservative 2012/07/01 20:32:26
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +5
    I guess this just proves Allen West right. We all know who they are but they can't admit it. You can't be truthful if you're a Communist.
  • Morning... Gracie ... 2012/07/01 21:00:04
    Morningstar
    I'm a PROGRESSIVE and support OBAMA - there, I've admitted it!
  • safari 2012/07/01 20:12:49 (edited)
    safari
    +7
    Nice article.

    You said "almost everything today's left-wing Progressives claim to believe in is identical with old school Communism. " NAILED IT with that one Chaos Kitty. That there are people claiming not to be socialists but who are on here isn't surprising. It goes to show the mentality of deception prevalent in the left. What is worse are those who are claiming to be right wing (under nefarious profiles) but who are the same people real right wingers battle with every day under their "more" honest lefty profiles. Those people really make me sick. They play games with conservatives minds using drama and distraction with an end game to drive them nuts, waste their time or remove them from the site by either running them off or tag teaming them with button pushing and reports.

    You said "But the Democrats are left right and center so that when the left goes on one of these ego trips, they serve only to split their party against itself and just how stupid is that!"

    Well - the one thing no one ever claimed about the democrats is that they have the slightest ability to exercise any common sense at all.
  • Razoreye001 2012/07/01 19:54:11
    Razoreye001
    +2
    There is nothing wrong with democratic Socialism, just look at how great France is. Not all democrats are democratic socialists, I personally identify as a utilitarian. Do all conservatives identify as libertarians, no but a lot are. I would rather vote for a democratic socialist over a republican. What we need to do in this country is show the people democratic Socialist doesn't equal communism or whatever negative ideology you affiliate with it.
  • Gracie ... Razorey... 2012/07/01 20:32:53
    Gracie - Proud Conservative
    +3
    You were probably their charter member.
  • Razorey... Gracie ... 2012/07/01 20:37:03
    Razoreye001
    +2
    Actually I am not but I was invited into similar groups however, I tend to be the voice of reason or doubting Thomas when I face actual socialists because like the libertarians they believe all people are saints while my Utilitarianism is more realistic.
  • Morning... Gracie ... 2012/07/01 21:02:28
    Morningstar
    You could call Jesus a socialist - depending on how you define the word!
  • Morning... Razorey... 2012/07/01 21:01:14 (edited)
    Morningstar
    +1
    gregory - you make too much sense for most on this post!
  • Razorey... Morning... 2012/07/01 21:28:24
    Razoreye001
    Well thank you.
  • edifyguy Razorey... 2012/07/03 01:51:41
    edifyguy
    France—great??! France is the picture of mediocrity and has been for 150 years or longer! They make crappy little cars, some cheese, and pretty much nothing else! They are also headed down the road to financial ruin because no one wants to work, preferring to relax and let the government pay their way in life. They just about assassinated Sarcozy (sp?) for raising a work week requirement from 34 hours to 36. Boo HOO! Or was it 32 to 34? I don't remember now. I learned it from an American who was in France at the time. The only reason that France hasn't gone over the cliff yet like Greece is that Sarcozy reined in some of the lunacy before they got so close to the edge, but rest assured, he merely slowed their "progress" toward the cliff. Like all "great" democratic socialist states, it will fall into economic ruin, bedlam, and bloody revolution in the not too distant future; they have a "great" record of doing that, you know.



    You need to get a grip on reality.

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