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So, is Obamacare a tax or isn't it a tax?

John "By God" American 2012/06/28 14:57:17
It is a tax...
It's isn't a tax...
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The Supreme Court rules that the Obamacare individual mandate is Constitutional under the taxing authority of the Congress. That's interesting since Obama specifically stated that it WASN'T a tax.
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  • mwg0735 2012/07/03 07:02:01
  • John "B... mwg0735 2012/07/03 13:33:14
    John "By God" American
    +1
    They'd call it a contribution...
  • mwg0735 John "B... 2012/07/03 14:33:31
  • Vision of Verve 2012/06/29 17:28:18
  • Charles E 2012/06/29 02:28:36
    It's isn't a tax...
    Charles E
    +2
    The law that the SC upheld was not the law passed by congress and challenged by the plantifs.

    With a dishonest Court and a criminal Attorney General there is no hope for this country.
  • LisaWay☮JUST MARCH HOME 2012/06/29 01:20:05 (edited)
    It's isn't a tax...
    LisaWay☮JUST MARCH HOME
    +3
    A tax is levied on a product or service. This is a penalty for NOT buying a product or service; and worse-- that product or service in this case MUST be a gov. product/service, as if the gov. product is going to be better?

    To surgically parse legalese into sounding like a something that may resemble some law-- that is NOT the job of our SCOTUS, it is politics. They are wiping their butts on US Law and then holding the crappy remnants up as if to claim they followed the law, but all they did, once again, is use their knowledge of the law against itself in order to legalize federal gov. activity that was previously illegal under the law. And btw, it was illegal for a reason....
  • Charles E LisaWay... 2012/06/29 02:30:09
    Charles E
    +2
    Outstanding. You are obviously smarter then the five criminals who upheld this law - combined.
  • LisaWay... Charles E 2012/06/29 03:08:40 (edited)
    LisaWay☮JUST MARCH HOME
    +2
    Thank you! But sir, you damn me with faint praise-- it's not that hard to be smarter than my bra size. LMAO. But seriously, it's not that they are not smart, it's that they are obviously not interested in protecting or upholding the US Constitution. Rather, they seem to be putting all their brains together to circumvent it.
  • Charles E LisaWay... 2012/06/29 11:48:51
    Charles E
    +2
    Glad I gave you a chuckle. And yes, they are working hard to NOT protect the Constitution.
  • woodstock 2012/06/29 00:16:49 (edited)
    It is a tax...
    woodstock
    +4
    Hold on to your hat the insanity has only just begun.
  • Charles E woodstock 2012/06/29 02:30:38
    Charles E
    +2
    I fear you are right.
  • guardian 2012/06/28 23:49:49
    It is a tax...
    guardian
    +2
    Individual penalty for failure to maintain health insurance
    Beginning in 2014, the law imposes a penalty on any individual who fails to maintain “minimum essential coverage” for health care. When fully phased in by 2016, the penalty is the greater of:
    •2.5 percent of the taxpayer’s household income over the threshold for filing a 1040 for that year, or
    •$695 per uninsured adult plus half of that amount per uninsured child under age 18, but capped at $2,085 per household
    During the 2014–2015 phase-in period, the penalty is 1 percent of household income for 2014 and 2 percent for 2015. The per-uninsured penalty is $95 for 2014 and $325 for 2015, and half those amounts per uninsured under 18.

    There is an overall limit on the penalty, equal to the national average premium for the “bronze level” of health insurance offered through the insurance exchange for the family size (“bronze” refers to coverage that is actuarially equivalent to 60 percent of full coverage).

    The penalty will be included with the Form 1040. But the IRS may not impose interest on any late payment, nor is the failure to pay subject to criminal prosecution or assessment, and the IRS may not file a lien or levy on the property of the taxpayer.

    To avoid the penalty, an individual must maintain “minimum essentia...





    Individual penalty for failure to maintain health insurance
    Beginning in 2014, the law imposes a penalty on any individual who fails to maintain “minimum essential coverage” for health care. When fully phased in by 2016, the penalty is the greater of:
    •2.5 percent of the taxpayer’s household income over the threshold for filing a 1040 for that year, or
    •$695 per uninsured adult plus half of that amount per uninsured child under age 18, but capped at $2,085 per household
    During the 2014–2015 phase-in period, the penalty is 1 percent of household income for 2014 and 2 percent for 2015. The per-uninsured penalty is $95 for 2014 and $325 for 2015, and half those amounts per uninsured under 18.

    There is an overall limit on the penalty, equal to the national average premium for the “bronze level” of health insurance offered through the insurance exchange for the family size (“bronze” refers to coverage that is actuarially equivalent to 60 percent of full coverage).

    The penalty will be included with the Form 1040. But the IRS may not impose interest on any late payment, nor is the failure to pay subject to criminal prosecution or assessment, and the IRS may not file a lien or levy on the property of the taxpayer.

    To avoid the penalty, an individual must maintain “minimum essential health care coverage” under one of the following:

    •Medicare, Medicaid, TRICARE, veterans’ care, or other governmental programs
    •An employer-sponsored group plan that is either a governmental plan or any other offered in the group market within the state
    •A grandfathered health plan, based on an individual’s right to maintain existing coverage
    •Any other coverage, such as a state health risk pool, recognized by the Department of Health and Human Services
    There are exemptions to the penalty for individuals whose income indicates they cannot afford coverage (defined as a required health care premium exceeding 8 percent of household income) and those with income below the tax return filing threshold. Members of Indian tribes and those with coverage gaps less than three months are also exempt.
    (more)
  • guardian guardian 2012/06/29 00:04:14 (edited)
    guardian
    +1
    No person can claim bankruptsy on the irs.
  • cm 2012/06/28 20:47:33
    It is a tax...
    cm
    +2
    the court said it is a tax, you'd have to have your head stuck in the sand to think otherwise.
  • Charles E cm 2012/06/29 02:32:30
    Charles E
    +2
    Smarter people than those have made mistakes. That one is a doozie!
  • none 2012/06/28 20:06:29
    It is a tax...
    none
    +4
    Call it what you want, we're being forced to buy something which is NOT right. Government out of control.
  • ordman 2012/06/28 19:44:35
    It is a tax...
    ordman
    +3
    For the first time in history you get Taxed for NOT buying something.
  • John "B... ordman 2012/06/28 20:04:21
    John "By God" American
    +3
    That's true. I didn't look at it that way...
  • LisaWay... ordman 2012/06/29 00:52:25
    LisaWay☮JUST MARCH HOME
    +3
    Yes, a tax is levied on a product or service. This is a penalty for NOT buying a product or service; and worse-- that product or service in this case MUST be a gov. product/service. There is further PENALTY for those who wish to buy insurance from a private company. They call that one a penalty, but that would be more appropriately called a tax.
  • tblackb 2012/06/28 19:40:58
    It's isn't a tax...
    tblackb
    +1
    i don't think it is but if so what difference does it make? r tax dollars go 2 all sorts of crazy things:

    1. Museum Where Neon Signs Go to Die – $1.8 Million

    Did you ever wonder where the flashy and colorful signs in Las Vegas go when they die? The city of Las Vegas has received a $5.2 million federal grant to build the Neon Boneyard Park and Museum, including $1.8 million in 2010.

    2. “Free” Grateful Dead Archive – $615,000

    Grateful Dead chose a public institution to archive the band‘s memorabilia ―because the whole idea of it being public and free was important to them,‖ yet taxpayers are paying $615,000 to make the band‘s archives ― free and ―public. Where? In Santa Cruz, California, of course.

    3. Poems in Zoos – $997,766

    Our nation currently faces many challenges; a shortage of poetry in our nation‘s zoos, however, is rarely cited as one of them. A federal grant program has directed a million dollars from the public coffers to infuse zoos around the United States with snippets of poetry.

    4. “Critter Crossing” – $150,000

    The Monkton, Vermont Conservation Commission received $150,000 in federal grant money to build a critter crossing, to save the lives of thousands of migrating salamanders and other amphibians that would otherwise be slaughtered by vehicle traffic on ...

































































    i don't think it is but if so what difference does it make? r tax dollars go 2 all sorts of crazy things:

    1. Museum Where Neon Signs Go to Die – $1.8 Million

    Did you ever wonder where the flashy and colorful signs in Las Vegas go when they die? The city of Las Vegas has received a $5.2 million federal grant to build the Neon Boneyard Park and Museum, including $1.8 million in 2010.

    2. “Free” Grateful Dead Archive – $615,000

    Grateful Dead chose a public institution to archive the band‘s memorabilia ―because the whole idea of it being public and free was important to them,‖ yet taxpayers are paying $615,000 to make the band‘s archives ― free and ―public. Where? In Santa Cruz, California, of course.

    3. Poems in Zoos – $997,766

    Our nation currently faces many challenges; a shortage of poetry in our nation‘s zoos, however, is rarely cited as one of them. A federal grant program has directed a million dollars from the public coffers to infuse zoos around the United States with snippets of poetry.

    4. “Critter Crossing” – $150,000

    The Monkton, Vermont Conservation Commission received $150,000 in federal grant money to build a critter crossing, to save the lives of thousands of migrating salamanders and other amphibians that would otherwise be slaughtered by vehicle traffic on a major roadway.

    5. Internet Dating Study – $239,100

    The National Science Foundation directed nearly a quarter million dollars to a Stanford University professor‘s study of how Americans use the Internet to find love.

    6. Census Super Bowl Commercial Too Ironic to be Understood – $2.5 Million

    U.S. taxpayers watched their money vanish quicker at the Super Bowl than those who bet on Peyton Manning and the Indianapolis Colts to win the game. The U.S. Census Bureau lost a $2.5 million bet when its ―Snapshot of Americ ad tanked when it ran during a commercial break in the third quarter. Media critics agreed the multi-million dollar advertisement ranked as one of the worst during the Super Bowl.

    7. Studying Male Prostitutes in Vietnam – $442,340

    The National Institutes of Health (NIH) spent nearly $442,340 million to study the number of male 124 prostitutes in Vietnam and their social setting.

    8. Zoo Receives Federal Funding to Develop Online Video Game, “Wolfquest‟ – $609,160

    The National Science Foundation (NSF) awarded over $600,000 to the Minnesota Zoo to create a wolf avata video game called WolfQuest

    9. Teaching South African Men How to Wash Their Genitalia – $823,200

    The National Institutes of Health (NIH) secured a grant for $800,000 in stimulus funds to study the effects of a genital-washing program in Orange Farm, South Africa. Investigators will attempt to teach uncircumcised African men how to wash their genitals after having sex and hope doing so will prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS.

    10. Gold-Plated Potties in the Woods – $1.49 Million

    The Denali National Park in Alaska recently built new restrooms at the Teklanika campground to replace chemical toilets with a sweet smelling toilet facility at a cost of nearly $1.5 million to taxpayers. The park will be spending more than $41,000 to replace each of the 36 toilets.

    11. A Recession-Inspired Video Game – $137,530

    If you have ever wondered what it would be like to fire someone, a new video game is available to help you get in on the fun! One Dartmouth professor received a federal grant to create a recession-inspired video game called Layoff, a puzzle-style game in which players fire as many people as they can as quickly as possible.

    12. NSF Studies Political Talk Shows on Fox News and MSNBC – $66,638

    Bill O‘Reilly and Rachel Maddow are not to blame for polarizing American politics, at least according to one researcher. The National Science Foundation (NSF) provided a $66,638 grant to Temple University political scientist Kevin Arceneaux to study the influence of political programming in mass media. He set out to test the claim that cable television shows allow the public to insulate themselves from opposing viewpoints—polarizing the electorate.

    13. Alcohol, College Students, Foreign Countries, and Your Money – $41,380

    Breaking news! College students studying abroad tend to drink more alcoholic beverages. Thanks to research funded by the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, taxpayers now know study abroad students double the amount they drink while away.

    14. Pedestrian Bridge Built Steps from Another Pedestrian Bridge – $260,000

    The Puget Sound Regional Council (Washington state) spent $260,000 building a pedestrian bridge across the North Creek, just 20 paces from an existing sidewalk crossing the river. Part of a larger $1.1297 million stimulus grant to improve Bothell Trail, this project has been described by locals as embarrassing, not needed, and not the best place.

    15. Banjo Player Honored in Museum – $1.5 Million

    Taxpayers may not quite get the twang for their buck from this project. The North Carolina county hopes a $1.5 million federal grant for a museum honoring a local bluegrass singer will provide an economic boost.

    16. Studying Wild Blue Monkey‟s Business – $168,766

    The National Science Foundation awarded a $168,766 federal grant to Columbia University researchers to study the sexual behavior of wild blue monkeys by analyzing monkey feces in Africa.

    17. NIH Promotes Awareness for Non-Existent Vaccine – $55,000

    The National Institutes of Health (NIH) spent $55,000 to promote HIV Vaccine Awareness Day, even though no vaccine exists.

    18. Renovating Pizzeria with New Vertical Garden Entry Way – $60,000

    Taxpayers who visit Tony‘s Trattoria in Waterloo, Iowa may literally get to taste the results of a federal grant. The pizzeria received $60,000 in federal funding to improve the property‘s façade and give it a more inviting feel. Specifically, customers using the back entrance will now be greeted by a vertical garden, which will ―provide the restaurant herbs such as basil, cilantro and rosemary.

    19. Storm Surge Signs Frighten Local Residents – $42,544

    Some Texas residents are unhappy and with over $42,544433 in federal funds being allocated towards posting 400 frightening signs showing how high the storm surge would be in a major hurricane. The signs are intended to show how deep the water would be if there were a 25-foot storm surge.

    20. City Gets Funding for “Slightly Different” Bike Signage – $900,000

    Why have one bike sign when you can have two? Portland, Oregon spent $900,000 in federal stimulus funds on a new bike signage project even though the city already has similar bike signs, which it plans to leave up. The new signs—which include arrows, distance, and travel times to key destinations— have a slightly different design than existing ones.

    y r u guys not upset about all these types of things that go on year after year?
    (more)
  • LisaWay... tblackb 2012/06/29 01:15:03
    LisaWay☮JUST MARCH HOME
    +2
    Yes I am upset about all those things, and I will never know how ppl think that giving a far away centralized gov. more power and more money will somehow work out to more equal distribution-- if they are too incompetent/corrupt to distribute anything equally so far, how would they be more competent or less corrupt given MORE power and money?? And you're right-- it doesn't make any difference to our pocket books what they call it. BUT it makes a BIG difference to our future laws whether or not the court meant to interpret law actually is doing that and not just using their knowledge of the law to circumvent that very law. To surgically parse legalese into sounding like a something that may resemble some law-- that is NOT law, it is politics. They are wiping their butts on US Law and then holding the crappy remnants up as if to claim they followed the law, but all they did was legalize acts that were previously illegal under the law.
  • tblackb LisaWay... 2012/06/29 01:46:58
    tblackb
    +2
    its not the courts fault. its the politicians fault. universal health care is an excellent ideal. the system is broken and cost are going through the roof for most americans. the problems is if people don't like this where is a better alternative? what is the republicans plan to fix the system? does romney have a plan to fix the system? the system will not get fixed until we begin to hold our politicians accountable and not just those of the party opposite from our own
  • LisaWay... tblackb 2012/06/29 02:20:20 (edited)
    LisaWay☮JUST MARCH HOME
    +1
    Hey, these neocons are in on it too. It was a Repub.- appointed Justice who swung the vote today. (And no, Romney cannot repeal Obamacare, unless he does so by executive order illegally, which is a possibility I suppose, since we have allowed that precedent to be set over and over.)

    Universal healthcare is a great idea, I agree. It works great on Star Trek. But even Roddenberry, even given an entire fantasy world of science fiction, could not get us from here to there. The problem is with the politicians in charge, as you say. And, since the problem is with the politicians, where in the heck is anybody getting the idea that we should put all of our eggs in that corrupt/incompetent basket?

    And since when has any government produced a better product or service than could be provided by a private business? Gov. services are not better than other things, they are only better than nothing at all, when there is NO other service at all, and that happens when the government outlawed every alternative! cha-ching for those politicians and the global corporations behind them.

    Corporatism is being fostered from both sides of the aisle. They both want to expand federal gov. power, esp lone executive "king" power, and they both ignore the flawed foundational monetary policy and ...
    Hey, these neocons are in on it too. It was a Repub.- appointed Justice who swung the vote today. (And no, Romney cannot repeal Obamacare, unless he does so by executive order illegally, which is a possibility I suppose, since we have allowed that precedent to be set over and over.)

    Universal healthcare is a great idea, I agree. It works great on Star Trek. But even Roddenberry, even given an entire fantasy world of science fiction, could not get us from here to there. The problem is with the politicians in charge, as you say. And, since the problem is with the politicians, where in the heck is anybody getting the idea that we should put all of our eggs in that corrupt/incompetent basket?

    And since when has any government produced a better product or service than could be provided by a private business? Gov. services are not better than other things, they are only better than nothing at all, when there is NO other service at all, and that happens when the government outlawed every alternative! cha-ching for those politicians and the global corporations behind them.

    Corporatism is being fostered from both sides of the aisle. They both want to expand federal gov. power, esp lone executive "king" power, and they both ignore the flawed foundational monetary policy and foreign policy which is fueled by the monetary policy, b/c those policies are very good for these politicians' short term pocketbooks. They both are in bed with the few elite corporations which are allowed by the gov. to provide ALL things and services and write law that crushes any attempt at alternative. This gov. is out for itself, and politicians are out for their buddies and only see in the short term-- that is the nature of governments and politicians. The only diff. btwn the mainstream of the parties today is that some of their buddies have different names.
    (more)
  • tblackb LisaWay... 2012/06/29 02:42:10
    tblackb
    +2
    all the politicians are pretty much the same. it usually comes down to the lesser of two evils. the people have not yet decided to elect politicians to act on their behalf and not on the behalf of corporations and the filthy rich!

    yeah, the private sector can always do things better than the government. the problem is we need the government to regulate commerce from greed ceo's and the like!
  • LisaWay... tblackb 2012/06/29 03:11:41
    LisaWay☮JUST MARCH HOME
    +2
    I agree completely. We need gov. to do its job and uphold those laws, not to FUND the outlaws! And it's our duty to throw the gov. out if they don't follow and uphold the law!
  • LisaWay... tblackb 2012/06/29 02:30:36 (edited)
    LisaWay☮JUST MARCH HOME
    +2
    About "fixing" the system-- all they had to do was stop stealing from it! Stop using those funds that we the ppl paid into it for other purposes. Obamacare was said to "reform" but it does not reform in the sense of "fixing"; rather "re-form" here means to form again. Obamacare guts Medicare, and claims to mean to replace it with something else-- that is neither fixing nor re-forming, that is just an extension of nothingness. They are simply stealing from the ppl now while moving projected FUTURE money around from shell to shell. And now they are legalizing their own theft.
  • tblackb LisaWay... 2012/06/29 04:02:47 (edited)
    tblackb
    +2
    its that... and the one thing few people don't want to hear. we need to cut defense spending; by half! who said we need to be the world's police? y r we always meddling in other countries affairs? we spend about $800 billion n defense and few people say anything about it. is this not BIG government? the only reason no one mentions defense & all the tax dollars that is poured into it is because of all the money WAR makes 4 the rich. we as a county have to get r priorities in order. don't complain about taxes unless we r willing 2 examine the problems in the "system as a whole."
  • LisaWay... tblackb 2012/06/29 04:46:36
    LisaWay☮JUST MARCH HOME
    +1
    Right on! Foundational policies are fatally flawed and feeding off each other, and we can't shore up the foundation by messing around the steeple. And no amt. of law on paper helps if we refuse to enforce the laws. And, even if we appreciate or morally agree with current definitions of "national defense", the bottom economic line is that not only can we not afford to police the whole world, we can't afford to police half the world AND have decent conditions in our own country at the same time. We are a super power, but not THAT super! And the everlasting phony future funding machine is our Kryptonite.
  • tblackb LisaWay... 2012/06/29 04:49:40
    tblackb
    +2
    absolutely, i couldn't have said it any better than that
  • Jackie G - Poker Playing Pa... 2012/06/28 19:36:39
    It is a tax...
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +3
    Obama is a huge liar - as if we needed confirmation
  • bob'45 2012/06/28 19:35:21 (edited)
    It is a tax...
    bob'45
    +3
    SCOTUS has ruled it a tax, and you can bet the present regime can't wait to get it up and running.
  • Christian 2012/06/28 18:22:12
    It is a tax...
    Christian
    +3
    If you don't get health insurance you get taxed.
  • Diane Spraggs Yates 2012/06/28 16:20:02
    It is a tax...
    Diane Spraggs Yates
    +4
    It is a tax Supreme Court declared it so !!!!!
  • Waldorf 2012/06/28 15:29:23
    It is a tax...
    Waldorf
    +6
    It is a tax, but it is one of those dreaded social engineering things. It is clearly an abuse of the income tax amendment, in my opinion.
  • ~Adrien~ 2012/06/28 15:17:05 (edited)
    It is a tax...
    ~Adrien~
    +6
    In another part of the decision and in a blow to the White House, a different majority on the court struck down the provision of the law that requires the states to dramatically expand the Medicaid health insurance program for the poor.

    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfr...
  • PrettieReptar 2012/06/28 15:13:36 (edited)
    It's isn't a tax...
    PrettieReptar
    +4
    It would be a tax if the government collected the money or we paid directly to the government (think Medicare). I don't see how being forced to buy a private product is a tax.

    This is clearly sleight of hand.

    I think the reason the SCOTUS made this statement is due to the penalty assessment for noncompliance. If you don't buy the insurance the IRS imposes a penalty.
  • John "B... Prettie... 2012/06/28 15:48:24
    John "By God" American
    +7
    Read "tax". Call it a fee, call it a penalty, call it whatever you wish. Any mandate by the government is a tax increase because the force us to pay at gunpoint. Be ready for mandatory "vaccinations"...
  • Prettie... John "B... 2012/07/02 16:31:56
    PrettieReptar
    I beg to differ with you on that.

    Obamacare was based on the Commerce Clause not the Tax and Spending clause.
  • John "B... Prettie... 2012/07/02 17:05:10
    John "By God" American
    “The Affordable Care Act’s requirement that certain individuals pay a financial penalty for not obtaining health insurance may reasonably be characterized as a tax,” Roberts wrote in the majority opinion, also backed by the court’s four liberal justices.

    “Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness.”

    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/...
    Using the Commerce Clause is even more ludicrous. Try again...
  • Kat 2012/06/28 15:10:48
    It is a tax...
    Kat
    +8
    They're all liars

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