Real change starts with something different!
How would you like to see us have a fair and balanced election system for a change? It is a real possibility and I have been trying for over two decades to promote simple solution that would allow us to make it happen.
Just think. Some day we could actually vote to keep out a politician that we know to be the wrong person for the job rather than to risk letting such a person win based on name recognition alone.
Finally, we would have an effective multi-partisan electoral system in which the BEST CANDIDATE could win under ANY political party rather than having to run under one of two parties with an unfair advantage that they never earned.
No longer would we have to settle for the lesser of two evils in election after election. This would reform politics by helping to reduce the number of bad politicians that make it into high level offices.
As an introduction to the idea of a Balanced Plurality voting system, take a look at the following crude poll based roughly on the 2004 presidential election. In this example the ballot is not totally ballanced, due to limitations in the poll creation interface, however it is still possible to see the difference that having a choice between a positive vote and a negative vote can make in the potential outcome of an election and more importantly in the ability of the voters to be fairly and accurately represented by the votes they cast. To calculate the net vote count for a given candidate, subtract the votes against a candidate from the votes for the candidate. In this poll, the votes against a particular candidate are labeled as "Anybody but" that candidate.
Balanced Plurality style 2004 Presidential Election poll
The "Anybody but Bush" crowd had to choose between being misrepresented and not being represented at all. What if in the 2004 presidential election, you had been given the option of a negative vote? How would you have voted?author
TechnoZeus
For those who would like the chance to express a negative vote, here's your chance. Simply subtract the votes against a presidential candidate from the votes for the candidate. The highest net-vote count is the winner!
(vote)
As of May 19th, 2008, the results of this poll so far are as follows.
13 net votes for John Kerry (Democratic party) with running mate John Edwards (14 - 1 = 13)
2 net votes for Ralph Nader (Independent, Reform party) with running mate Peter Camejo (3 - 1 = 2)
1 vote for Michael Badnarik (Libertarian party) with running mate Richard Campagna
1 split write-in vote for Donald Duck and Pluto
0 votes for or against Walt Brown (Socialist party) with running mate Mary Alice Herbert
0 votes for or against David Cobb (Green party) with running mate Pat LaMarche
0 votes for or against Michael Peroutka (Constitution party) with running mate Chuck Baldwin
31 net votes AGAINST George W. Bush (Republican party) with running mate Richard Cheney (8 - 39 = -31. Negative net vote count.)
(1 vote for All of the above)
(1 undecided)
As a second example of a form of Balanced Plurality voting system, have a look at my dual-vote poll based on the 2000 Presidential election. In this case the poll is split into two web pages with one page allowing the positive vote and the other allowing the negative vote. This allows a choice of either a vote for a candidate or a vote against a candidate or one of each. Ideally when two votes are cast by the same person they should each count as only half a vote, but for simplicity I am not weighting the votes in this poll. Simply subtract the votes Against a candidate from the votes For the same candidate, just like in the first example.
Dual-Vote Balanced Plurality style 2000 Presidential Election poll - Positive Vote part
[+] Imagine the 2000 presidential election allowing each of us a "for" vote and an "against" vote. How do you think you would have voted? Cast your vote FOR a candidate here, and cast your vote against a candidate on the other page.author
TechnoZeus
This is the POSITIVE vote part of a dual-vote poll. For a write-in, choose None of the Above.
Dual-Vote Balanced Plurality style 2000 Presidential Election poll - Negative Vote part
[-] Imagine the 2000 presidential election allowing each of us a "for" vote and an "against" vote. how do you think you would have voted? Cast your vote AGAINST a candidate here, and cast your vote for a candidate on the other page.author
TechnoZeus
This is the NEGATIVE vote part of a dual-vote poll. For a write-in, choose None of the Above.
As of May 19th, 2008, the results of this dual-vote poll so far are as follows...
12 net votes for Al Gore (Democrat) (13 - 1 = 12)
3 Vote for Harry Browne (Libertarian)
2 Vote for Alan Keyes (Republican)
2 Vote for Bill Bradley (Democrat)
2 Vote for Howard Phillips (Constitution)
1 write-in vote for Bob Kerrey
1 net vote for Pat Buchanan (Reform) (2 - 1 = 1)
0 Vote for Gary Bauer (Republican)
0 Vote for George W. Bush (Republican)
0 Vote for Steve Forbes (Republican)
4 net votes AGAINST John McCain (Republican) (1 - 5 = -4)
24 votes AGAINST George W. Bush (Republican)
(2 Undecided )
Next, applying the same dual-vote system to the 2008 presidential election with a selection of candidates, here is another two part simulation. Just think of this poll as a cross between the primaries and the general election, without the need for an electoral college.
Dual-Vote Balanced Plurality style 2008 Presidential Election poll - Poitive Vote part
(+) If the 2008 presidential election had been a popular vote election allowing each of us to vote twice (once for and once against) who would you vote FOR if the following candidates were on the ballot? (Subtract votes against from votes for.)author
TechnoZeus
This is the POSITIVE vote part of a two vote system poll.
Dual-Vote Balanced Plurality style 2008 Presidential Election poll - Negative Vote part
(-) If the 2008 presidential election had been a popular vote election allowing each of us to vote twice (once for and once against) who would you vote AGAINST if the following candidates were on the ballot? (Subtract votes against from votes for.)author
TechnoZeus
This is the NEGATIVE vote part of a two vote system poll.
As of May 19th, 2008, the results of this dual-vote poll so far are as follows...
28 net votes for Barack Obama (46 - 18 = 28)
3 Vote for Ron Paul
2 net votes for Kat Swift (3 - 1 = 2)
2 write-in votes for Fred Thompson
1 write-in vote for Joe Biden
1 write-in vote for Mitt Romney
1 net vote for Mary Ruwart (2 - 1 = 1)
1 Vote for Ralph Nader
0 Vote for Cynthia McKinney
1 net vote AGAINST Mike Huckabee (1 - 2 = -1)
1 vote AGAINST Alan Keyes
8 net votes AGAINST Hillary Rodham Clinton (18 - 26 = -8)
22 net votes AGAINST John McCain (4 - 26 = -22)
(and 1 vote for All of the above )
Now for another dual-vote 2008 Presidential election poll but with a different choice of minor party candidates. In this poll the major party candidates are Barack Obama and John McCain. For a write-in vote, choose None of the Above and leave the write-in name as a comment.
Dual-Vote Balanced Plurality style 2008 Presidential Election poll - Poitive Vote part
(+) If the 2008 presidential election had been a popular vote election allowing each of us to vote twice (once for and once against) who would you vote FOR if the following candidates were on the ballot? (Subtract votes against from votes for.)author
TechnoZeus
This is the POSITIVE vote part of a two vote system poll.
Dual-Vote Balanced Plurality style 2008 Presidential Election poll - Negative Vote part
(-) If the 2008 presidential election had been a popular vote election allowing each of us to vote twice (once for and once against) who would you vote AGAINST if the following candidates were on the ballot? (Subtract votes against from votes for.)author
TechnoZeus
This is the NEGATIVE vote part of a two vote system poll.
As of May 19th, 2008, the results of this dual-vote poll so far are as follows...
22 net votes for Barack Obama (35 - 13 = 22)
5 net write-in votes for Hillary Clinton (7 - 2 = 5)
1 vote for Kat Swift (Green Party)
1 vote for Mary Ruwart (Libertarian Party)
0 net votes for or against Cynthia McKinney (1 - 1 = 0)
0 votes for or against Christine Smith (Libertarian Party)
0 votes for or against Karen Kwiatkowski (Libertarian Party)
0 votes for or against Teresa Gutierrez (Workers World Party)
0 votes for or against Diane Templin (American Party)
1 vote AGAINST Gloria La Riva (Party for Socialism and Liberation / Peace & Freedom Party)
25 net votes AGAINST John McCain (5 - 30 = -25)
And now for yet another dual-vote 2008 Presidential election poll with this alternative choice of minor party candidates. Again. for a write-in vote, choose None of the Above and leave the write-in name as a comment. In this poll the major party candidates are Hillary Clinton and John McCain. This variation makes for good a comparison of electability.
Dual-Vote Balanced Plurality style 2008 Presidential Election poll - Poitive Vote part
(+) If the 2008 presidential election had been a popular vote election allowing each of us to vote twice (once for and once against) who would you vote FOR if the following candidates were on the ballot? (Subtract votes against from votes for.)author
TechnoZeus
This is the POSITIVE vote part of a two vote system poll.
Dual-Vote Balanced Plurality style 2008 Presidential Election poll - Negative Vote part
(-) If the 2008 presidential election had been a popular vote election allowing each of us to vote twice (once for and once against) who would you vote AGAINST if the following candidates were on the ballot? (Subtract votes against from votes for.)author
TechnoZeus
This is the NEGATIVE vote part of a two vote system poll.
As of May 19th, 2008, the results of this dual-vote poll so far are as follows...
4 votes for Kat Swift (Green Party)
3 net write-in votes for Barack Obama (5 - 2 = 3)
2 write-in vote for Ron Paul
1 vote for Cynthia McKinney (Green Party / Peace & Freedom Party)
0 votes for or against Mary Ruwart (Libertarian Party)
0 votes for or against Christine Smith (Libertarian Party)
0 votes for or against Karen Kwiatkowski (Libertarian Party)
0 votes for or against Teresa Gutierrez (Workers World Party)
0 votes for or against Gloria La Riva (Party for Socialism and Liberation / Peace & Freedom Party)
0 votes for or against Diane Templin (American Party)
7 net votes AGAINGT John McCain (1 - 8 = -7)
11 votes against Hillary Clinton (Democratic Party)
That should be enough to give you the basic idea.
Now, I would like to do this a little more scientifically. The following two polls are not parts of a dual-poll but rather are each a simulation of the traditional plurality voting system. These are to be used as a control group for comparison with the Balanced Plurality voting system.
Barack Obama vs. John McCain - Control test
If Barack Obama won the Democratic nomination and Hillary Clinton decided to run in the general election as independent, who would you vote for?author
TechnoZeus
2008 presidential election poll to demonstrate the traditional plurality voting systems as a control test.
As of May 19, 2008, the results of this poll so far are as follows...
49 votes for Barack Obama
17 votes for Hillary Clinton
8 votes for John McCain
1 write-in vote for Kat Swift
1 write-in vote for Paris Hilton
Hillary Clinton vs. John McCain - Control test
If Hillary Clinton won the Democratic nomination and Barack Obama decided to run in the general election as independent, who would you vote for?author
TechnoZeus
2008 presidential election poll to demonstrate the traditional plurality voting systems as a control test.
As of May 19th, 2008, the results of this poll so far are as follows...
58 votes for Barack Obama (independent)
28 votes for Hillary Clinton (Democratic)
6 votes for John McCain (Republican)
1 write-in vote for Ron Paul
1 write-in for Kat Swift
(4 Undecided)
And next are two polls that are each a simulation of a single vote Balanced Plurality voting system.
These may be compared with the control group.
Barack Obama vs. John McCain - Fair and Balanced Voting System example
If Barack Obama won the Democratic nomination and Hillary Clinton decided to run in the general election as independent, how would you vote if you could choose for or against any candidate?author
TechnoZeus
2008 presidential election poll using a single vote Balanced Plurality voting system.
43 votes for Barack Obama
2 write-in votes for Kat Swift
1 net vote for John McCain (4 - 3 = 1)
1 net vote AGAINST Hillary Clinton (17 - 18 = -1)
Hillary Clinton vs. John McCain - Fair and Balanced Voting System example
If Hillary Clinton won the Democratic nomination and Barack Obama decided to run in the general election as independent, how would you vote if you could choose for or against any candidate?author
TechnoZeus
2008 presidential election poll using a single vote Balanced Plurality voting system.
As of May 19th, 2008, the results of this poll so far are as follows...
(Including 1 split write-in vote between Barack Obama and Ron Paul)
37.5 net votes for Barack Obama (39 ballot + 1.5 write-in - 3 = 37.5)
11 net votes for Hillary Clinton (30 - 19 = 11)
2 net votes for John McCain (6 - 4 = 2)
1 write-in vote for Kat Swift
1 Undecided (without a write-in)
1 None of the above (without a write-in)
0.5 write-in votes for Ron Paul
Finally, as a last example I would like to leave you with a single-vote Balanced Plurality poll having three of the minor party candidates from the 2008 presidential election against a less popular major party candidate.
Single Vote 2008 Presidential Election Balanced Plurality poll with a single less popular major party candidate
(Subtract "Against" votes from "For" votes for net results.) If only the women currently running for president were on the ballot in the general election and you could vote for or against anyone, how would you vote?author
TechnoZeus
Please choose your vote FOR or AGAINST a candidate.
As of May 19th 2008, the results of this poll so far are as follows...
26 votes for Kat Swift
9 net votes for Cynthia McKinney (10 - 1 = 9)
5 write-in votes for Barack Obama
1 vote for an undisclosed candidate selected based on gender
1 undisclosed write-in.
1 vote AGAINST Mary Ruwart
12 net votes AGAINST Hillary Clinton (7 - 18 - 1 write-in = -12)
P.S. I stopped by to read a bit about your reform to better understand it for IF you decide to bring it into the group for fixing the voting system. Again, hoping you will and hoping that more members will become active to try it out.
You already know that I think the media will scare people with the idea that, giving all their negative votes (that is 1 not .XXXX since people would still be fearful) to the major party they dislike more, will only make it likely for a minor party with a worse candidate to win. I'm just glad that you lean in the statist direction so you have a better chance of approval.
http://sodahead.com/blog/1522...
Feel free to share these links as you see fit, and to join the discussion or post any polite comments or questions as long as they are not way off topic.
Thanks.
TZ
Among the huge list of people who have officially endorsed Barack Obama for President of the United States of America, there are people from all walks of life. Notable recent additions are Johnny Edwards, Albert Gore, and even Hillary Clinton... who has gotten to know him quite well through the primary election campaigning process.
Here is a video of Hillary Clinton explaining what is important to her and to her supporters and how she sees Barack Obama as our best hope.
(Hillary Clinton endorses Barack Obama)
Here is a video of Albert Gore telling why presumed Republican nominee John McCain deserves our respect and why presumed Democratic nominee Barack Obama deserves our votes.
(Al Gore endorses Barack Obama)
And here's a video in which, at an Obama for America campaig...
Among the huge list of people who have officially endorsed Barack Obama for President of the United States of America, there are people from all walks of life. Notable recent additions are Johnny Edwards, Albert Gore, and even Hillary Clinton... who has gotten to know him quite well through the primary election campaigning process.
Here is a video of Hillary Clinton explaining what is important to her and to her supporters and how she sees Barack Obama as our best hope.
(Hillary Clinton endorses Barack Obama)
Here is a video of Albert Gore telling why presumed Republican nominee John McCain deserves our respect and why presumed Democratic nominee Barack Obama deserves our votes.
(Al Gore endorses Barack Obama)
And here's a video in which, at an Obama for America campaign event, John Edwards talks about Hillary Clinton, the need for change in America, what divides us, how we need to unite and break down the walls of division, and how important it is what we elect Barack Obama to the the president of the United States of America so that we can make it heppen.
(John Edwards endorses Barack Obama)
Here's a link to a poll that Mentonemommy made on the subject...
http://sodahead.com/poll/92534
and here's a link to a poll that I made which was inspired by people's behavior in many polls but mostly in that one...
http://sodahead.com/poll/91818
and here's a poll that was inspired by the kind of blind following that I have seen by her remaining supporters in both of those polls, among other places...
http://sodahead.com/poll/92791
http://sodahead.com/group/1707/
it's for people who want a way that we can keep the likes of Hillary Clinton and Geroge W. Bush from getting elected. if someone wants to lie, cheat, and fight dirty, we should be able to just say "no" to having them in charge.
Just how do you manage to keep track of everything?
I'm glad you like it. This electoral reform is a thankless and unfortunately payless job that has occupied way too much of my time for way too long... but it will have been worth it if some day it saves us from having another George W. Bush in a high level office.
I just hope some day it actually makes it that far.
Thanks... glad you like it. I hope Barack Obama will hear about it some day.
Anyway, I like this Negative Vote idea and the good news is, in this election, every write-in for Ron Paul is, in fact, a vote against McSame and the GOP. (The pundits will be surprised at the percentage.)