Should women in the armed forces require the same testing standards as men?

by CAPISCE Posted 2012/12/05 00:41:14

Related Topics: Air Force, Military, Exercise, Physical, Troops, Correctness, Population, Body

90 votes
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	Same requirements as Male soldiers	82 votes	91%
	Lower requirements than Male soldiers	8 votes	9%

Women form a significant role in the armed forces in many parts of the world, and as do the men are usually required to undergo regular fitness testing. In many cases there are different standards that the women are required to meet. Critics of this say that as both the men and women need to work under the same conditions they should be required to reach the same minimum fitness levels. On the other hand, due to women generally having lower physical capabilities such as lower strength and endurance etc., the setting of a standard test target for both sexes can be seen as a disadvantage, and even possibly discrimination. Is political correctness putting soldiers in danger? At time of this article NO Females were certified for front line combat.

Data on strength are available from the US military – not an
ideal sample, but similar to the general population in height. A 2007 report
rates five areas of strength and gives male soldiers’ strength relative to
females as follows: upper-body, 72 percent higher; leg extensor, 54 percent;
trunk flexor, 47 percent; lean body mass, 33 percent; and aerobic capacity, 28
percent. Upper-body strength, the area of greatest gender difference, is
emphasized in military training. Field exercises in which troops march sustained
distances carrying heavy packs seem to be a key point at which men rate women as
inferior. One West Point colonel said, “The women just drop.” they are just not physically equal to men---he went on to say the safety of the soldiers is more important than any social concerns.

Lifting capacity shows the greatest gender disparity – probably
in part because far more young men than women in US culture in 1982 engaged in
weight training. The 2007 data indicate an average lifting capacity for women
soldiers of 66 pounds, versus 119 for men (80 percent higher). The difference in
lifting capacity is especially critical at around 100–120 pounds. An Air Force
test for lifting 110 pounds was passed by 68 percent of men and only 1 percent of
women. I do not know how important lifting capacity is in the range of
capabilities that enhance combat effectiveness, but it does resonate with the
clincher line of the retired colonel’s argument quoted above (p. 159), that a
weakling woman would be unable to save her wounded comrade’s life in battle by
dragging him away. Thus, the 80 percent difference here seems far more likely
than the 8 percent difference in height to explain why so few women participate
in combat.

Add a comment above

lark 2012/12/05 00:46:51

Same requirements as Male soldiers

+7
If they want to do the same jobs while in the military they better be able to do them so yes the requirements should be the same
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More polls by CAPISCE

Drebi 2012/12/11 19:40:18

Same requirements as Male soldiers

There should only be one set of requirements. Those who meet them should be allowed to do the job they signed up for, those who don't should not. Simple as that.

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CAPISCE to Drebi 2013/04/02 02:17:16

Nailed it

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Quazimoto 2012/12/11 18:47:10

Lower requirements than Male soldiers

Men and women are built differently.

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wale63 2012/12/05 21:27:43

Same requirements as Male soldiers

+1
OF COURSE. The enemy is NOT going to lower THEIR standards.
Andy

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Kaleokualoha 2012/12/05 20:01:52

Same requirements as Male soldiers

+1
Just like in the post office!

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frank 2012/12/05 18:33:46

Same requirements as Male soldiers

+1
Women only need the same training as men if they want to fight on the front lines with men. I need to know that they can do the job, not hope

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EvilMonkey 2012/12/05 14:29:30

Same requirements as Male soldiers

+1
The same requirements for the same job. If your going into battle with someone who can't pull their weight or crack track, what good are they? We aren't talking about desk jobs. Giving combat positions to people who can't do the job is stupid and they are going to get someone killed.

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Lady Whitewolf 2012/12/05 13:47:31

Same requirements as Male soldiers

+1
And if they can do it, more power to 'em!!

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CAPISCE to Lady Wh... 2012/12/05 13:55:32

+1
Right

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lucky 2012/12/05 13:34:03

Same requirements as Male soldiers

+1
Same job, same requirements, especially in combat career paths.

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cwoo10 2012/12/05 12:34:28

Same requirements as Male soldiers

+1
If they want to be on the front line, they need to be able to perform at the same level which requires intense physical effort.

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ready46xwu 2012/12/05 11:59:23

Same requirements as Male soldiers

DEPENDING ON THEIR JOB!
They'll never be 'women SEALS'!
But, 'women' make excellant ' PILOTS'!
I know, I've 'flown w/them', & they can be as
'FEARLESS AS A MAN'!

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Lady Wh... to ready46xwu 2012/12/05 13:47:04

+1
Don't count on women NOT being SEALS.... It WILL happen.

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ziad 2012/12/05 11:40:14

Same requirements as Male soldiers

Is half the society
And participation in state affairs

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Chaya2010 2012/12/05 11:37:37

Same requirements as Male soldiers

+1
Exactly the same physical and psychological tests so there is one standard.

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Hawkeye 2012/12/05 11:17:13

Same requirements as Male soldiers

Wile I have heard the argument that menstruation can be detected on the Battlefield as a reason for NOT allowing this,, I see this as an avantage..

Imagine a company or squad of PMSers bitching and screaming and racing towards your Foxhole.....Especially with GUNS in their hands..

Damn if I wouldn't surrender right then and there..

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tff~PWCM~JLA 2012/12/05 11:11:22

Same requirements as Male soldiers

+1
They proclaim there is no differences so let them pass the exact same non-watered down exams. Be it physical, or mental!

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chucky 2012/12/05 09:14:12

Same requirements as Male soldiers

+1
I was a soldier a lifetime ago.With all respect to women,the physical requisite would be too tough.

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richard.stifle 2012/12/05 04:54:04

Same requirements as Male soldiers

+1
Aside from certain medical standards, like prostate exams and such, yes, a soldier is a soldier, male or female.

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tff~PWC... to richard... 2012/12/05 11:12:18

Wake up, your dreaming!

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Mog of War 2012/12/05 04:46:45

Same requirements as Male soldiers

These ranges of disparity are clearly the result of our culture breeding women to be weak. I also think that what motivates most health decisions made by the parents of young girls reduces the amount of muscle building nutrients the girls receive growing up, contributing to the rather slight builds of these women. We need to set the bar high so that women reach the bar in increasing numbers. I am not denying the existence of the natural disparity between the sexes, but I am convinced these gaps are at least TWICE if not THREE TIMES what they naturally tend to be, and is indeed twice what it used to be. (These discrepancies should range from 15% to 50% not from 28% to 80%)

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CAPISCE to Mog of War 2012/12/05 13:11:48

lmao-----what planet are you on?

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Mog of War to CAPISCE 2012/12/05 23:15:49

One where I have been able to observe successive generations of girls being given different diets and exercise regimes growing up and being exposed to progressively weaker ideal forms to aspire towards, growing up to be weaker and weaker adults.

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CAPISCE to Mog of War 2012/12/08 16:32:58

You mean being a Female? How horrible

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EvilMonkey to Mog of War 2012/12/05 14:37:24

+1
You realize that there are physical differences between men and women including difference in where muscles attach on our skeleton that give men more leverage and strength? We're not just physiologically different. Hormones could change some differences such as muscle density, but you would be messing with nature, not nurture.

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Mog of War to EvilMonkey 2012/12/05 23:43:51

Why yes I do, and if you read my post you'd see that I was acknowledging them. But the discrepancies noted in the reports are much wider than ever found in tribal populations which serve as the best analogue humans in a "natural" state. And something about humans in our natural state. Women have a much smaller muscle VOLUME but actually tend to have HIGHER muscle DENSITY. Men have to work out more to build muscle density, but less to build muscle volume. Women have to work more to build muscle volume but less to build muscle density. The maximum density is the same regardless, and is not sex specific, so male body builders, and male athletes tend to have better strength. The ligaments attach in the same places regardless of sex, and regardless of species even if it's the same sort of body structure.. The advantage in males stems from superior maximum lung capacity due to larger chest region, and in the ability to accrue more muscle mass without hormone modification. Women who work out and intake enough protein and vitamins to support the growth of muscle will produce muscle towards their maximum. They will naturally produce enough testosterone to support the muscle growth, and the muscle will consume enough of it to sink the levels in the blood and prevent hormonal imbalan...

Why yes I do, and if you read my post you'd see that I was acknowledging them. But the discrepancies noted in the reports are much wider than ever found in tribal populations which serve as the best analogue humans in a "natural" state. And something about humans in our natural state. Women have a much smaller muscle VOLUME but actually tend to have HIGHER muscle DENSITY. Men have to work out more to build muscle density, but less to build muscle volume. Women have to work more to build muscle volume but less to build muscle density. The maximum density is the same regardless, and is not sex specific, so male body builders, and male athletes tend to have better strength. The ligaments attach in the same places regardless of sex, and regardless of species even if it's the same sort of body structure.. The advantage in males stems from superior maximum lung capacity due to larger chest region, and in the ability to accrue more muscle mass without hormone modification. Women who work out and intake enough protein and vitamins to support the growth of muscle will produce muscle towards their maximum. They will naturally produce enough testosterone to support the muscle growth, and the muscle will consume enough of it to sink the levels in the blood and prevent hormonal imbalance. It's the same positive feedback loop that males have when we work out, but it resolves to a lesser extent. In the upward limits the discrepancies are vast, because that extra arm length and higher base testosterone levels give the males more volume to work with and faster growth, but the averages are not as disparate, as the ideals. nor are the athletic and military ranges altough they are greater than the averages, but fewer women are seeking higher levels of fitness, and the very shape of fitness is changing in the culture.
(more)

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Cat 2012/12/05 04:46:29

Same requirements as Male soldiers

+1
If you want equal pay and equal promotion chances then all other criteria must be equal as well.

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kitkat42 2012/12/05 04:08:38

Same requirements as Male soldiers

+3
IF they are looking to do the EXACT same job, then requirements need to be equal. IF you're talking about being in the service in general, then no. My grand daughter is in the Army now and she says mentally, the women can do all the same jobs, but physically, she admits the women find it harder to meet the same tough standards. Some do, but not many. So I think the answer is both yes and no.

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VenomHalos 2012/12/05 03:36:44

Same requirements as Male soldiers

+1
They're doing the same jobs, so yes.

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Ken123 to VenomHalos 2012/12/05 05:03:58

+1
Soldiers have to rely on one another which means a 180lb male has to rely on a 110 female to get him out of the line of fire if he's wounded. So if all females can accomplish this requirement, let them serve. The first time they have to reach inside what use to be a stomach and hold the intestines of a fellow soldier, we can find out what they are made of.

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VenomHalos to Ken123 2012/12/06 04:11:44

I'm really not sure what point you're trying to prove here.

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Ken123 to VenomHalos 2012/12/08 16:16:37

I'm not trying to prove any point, just citing an example of what a solldier can expect in combat. As a consideration, generally speaking women are much more emotional than men and that's a trait which cannot be trained out of them. The only sucessful women I've have obserserved in combat has been the Israel women but, they are far and few in between. Combat is a dirty business. When you live bythe gun, you'll die by the gun. On the other side, there is no room for chilvary on the battlefield, it'll get both killed for lack of concentration to the mission at hand.

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VenomHalos to Ken123 2012/12/09 18:58:56

I know many women who would probably be perfectly fine on the battlefield. And I know MANY men who would most definitely NOT be. It has nothing to do with gender.

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Ken123 to VenomHalos 2012/12/15 17:44:36

You just proved my point; You looked at my submisssion emotionally instead objectionallly, in battle with Islamic terrorist you and your unit would be eaten alive.

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VenomHalos to Ken123 2013/04/01 17:22:18

I'm sorry, but that really doesn't make any sense. Please explain how I "looked at your submission emotionally instead of objectively" by simply stating that there are many women who would be perfectly capable, and many men who wouldn't.

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CAPISCE to VenomHalos 2013/04/01 17:24:16

If woman can pass the physical combat test they should be alloweed to serve in Combat. FYI: No Female to date has passed test---last year only 2 took the test, both failed

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VenomHalos to CAPISCE 2013/04/01 17:45:11

Well, I suppose a few more should take it, then. There are plenty who would be capable-- maybe they just aren't interested.

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sclichman 2012/12/05 03:32:28

Same requirements as Male soldiers

+1
Women must be of top calibre when entering whether its politically correct or not. Things get real messy in the case of a woman pow. That is just the world today.

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roxie 2012/12/05 03:21:11

Same requirements as Male soldiers

They already are

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CAPISCE to roxie 2012/12/05 13:12:42

Incorrect

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