Should Women Be Navy SEALs?
SodaHead News
2011/05/31 20:00:00
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How would the recent raid on Osama bin Laden's secret Pakistani hideaway have been different if female Navy SEALs had been involved? Might bin Laden's wives have been more compliant when seeing a female face? Or would bin Laden have resisted more?
After years of gaining ground in their battle to earn more combat roles in the military, the possibility of female special ops forces could become a reality sooner rather than later.
"As a philosophical thing, there shouldn't be anything that's closed off as a career," Navy Secretary Ray Mabus told The Huffington Post.
A ban is still in place on women serving in combat and infantry jobs, but Mabus said there are an increasing amount of women working in support roles in special operations, and he did not dismiss the idea that a qualified woman could one day become an elite commando.
Like the overturning of "don't ask, don't tell," though, that change would require some deliberate, "well-thought-out" measures. But Defense Secretary Robert Gates made a similar statement last year, telling some ROTC students that he could see women in special forces at some point when "there will be a careful step in that direction."
That first baby step has already happened, thanks to the Navy's recent decision to let women serve on submarines, with eight scheduled to report to their subs in November.
Should women be Navy SEALs?
After years of gaining ground in their battle to earn more combat roles in the military, the possibility of female special ops forces could become a reality sooner rather than later.
"As a philosophical thing, there shouldn't be anything that's closed off as a career," Navy Secretary Ray Mabus told The Huffington Post.
A ban is still in place on women serving in combat and infantry jobs, but Mabus said there are an increasing amount of women working in support roles in special operations, and he did not dismiss the idea that a qualified woman could one day become an elite commando.
Like the overturning of "don't ask, don't tell," though, that change would require some deliberate, "well-thought-out" measures. But Defense Secretary Robert Gates made a similar statement last year, telling some ROTC students that he could see women in special forces at some point when "there will be a careful step in that direction."
That first baby step has already happened, thanks to the Navy's recent decision to let women serve on submarines, with eight scheduled to report to their subs in November.
Should women be Navy SEALs?
Right now woman have different physical requirements then men which in some areas is not very important but when it comes to special ops is extremely important.
Also im still undecided on whether woman could cause problems in certain scenarios. Most men whether it be by instinct or the way they were raised will defend a woman quicker then another man and im not so sure that wouldnt be a problem when in combative situations.
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyre...
During tests it was determined that differences between women and men in their capacity to develop muscle strength and aerobic fitness are such that only approximately 1% of women can equal the performance of the average man, hence the decision to restrict the former from spear point units - infantry, SF, armoured corps etc.
The New Zealand Army, which has always allowed women to serve on the frontline, has 36 women deployed overseas currently out of 470 deployed personnel.
Posts include East Timor, the Solomon Islands, Afghanistan, Sinai and in the Middle East - Damascus, Israel and Lebanon - with the United Nations.
HQ Joint Forces NZ senior communications advisor Nicole Munro said there were no women in New Zealand's SAS force, not because they weren't allowed, but because they had been unable to pass the rigorous entry test.
She said the SAS entry test, which was exceptionally demanding, as it is in Australia, was the same for both men and women.
So, in countries like NZ and Australia now, where women have the right to try out for the elite soldier's jobs, it sounds like physically there are issues passing the requirements.
He also indicated that the armed forces also had no women capable of passing the brutal SAS entry requirements.
I come from New Zealand, where there is equal rights as well re the New Zealand SAS - and no women, despite many trying, have managed to pass the entry requirements there as well. And believe me, NZ women can be as hard as nails, I have 3 NZ sisters and a NZ mum...
Rights are for the government to decide, leave the actual strategy up to the military. They can follow laws put out by the government and still manage to function you might be surprised to see.
I find human rights more important then any slight irrelevant benefit you might gain by having nothing but only one demographic in a particular mission.
We have the technology!
why should they have to pass the same type of tests? - because they to, will be walking the same distances, with the same weight bags on their backs - facing the same enemies in close combat, enemies who wont say, oh its a women, i'll just put one hand behind my back for this fight...
I think any women seeking entrance to the elite fighting units would expect no concession to be given to them anyway.
Besides, woman have much better pain endurance, and are more trainable and mentally stable. More specifically, they make excellent negotiators and snipers. I have an article for you, also:
http://userpages.aug.com/capt...
The end of the article sums it up pretty well:
"Frankly, women are better suited mentally for this job than most men," said Dolan who has learned the sniper craft from the Marines and from the Army and who saw duty as a Marine sniper 10 years ago during the Persian Gulf War. "A woman is best suited to counter a woman sniper," he added. "That's important because more than 50 percent of the countries that have been considered hostile to the United States, including North Vietnam and North Korea, have used women snipers.
"Women can shoot better, by and large, and they're easier to train because they don't have the inflated egos that a lot of men bring to these programs," Dolan said. "Women will ask for help if they need it, and they will tell you what they think." Dolan has designed the countersniper program for Air National Guard security people, and he has no reservations about training women who can hand...
Besides, woman have much better pain endurance, and are more trainable and mentally stable. More specifically, they make excellent negotiators and snipers. I have an article for you, also:
http://userpages.aug.com/capt...
The end of the article sums it up pretty well:
"Frankly, women are better suited mentally for this job than most men," said Dolan who has learned the sniper craft from the Marines and from the Army and who saw duty as a Marine sniper 10 years ago during the Persian Gulf War. "A woman is best suited to counter a woman sniper," he added. "That's important because more than 50 percent of the countries that have been considered hostile to the United States, including North Vietnam and North Korea, have used women snipers.
"Women can shoot better, by and large, and they're easier to train because they don't have the inflated egos that a lot of men bring to these programs," Dolan said. "Women will ask for help if they need it, and they will tell you what they think." Dolan has designed the countersniper program for Air National Guard security people, and he has no reservations about training women who can handle the 15-hour days of running and shooting and camouflage lessons in the woods.
The students had to complete a two-day and night field training exercise at the Arkansas National Guard's Fort Chaffee before they graduated. "The same standards apply to men and women," Dolan insisted. "This course is designed to test their physical limits and their emotional balance." Despite Donaldson's concerns, Dolan said, the sniper school's first woman student shot well with her scope-mounted, high-power rifle on the range and was an above average student.
I keep hearing this, but there is no basis for it that I can find. New studies show the opposite, actually...but still say there is no real basis for comparison.
Thats not for going out for close encounters with the enemy though...
i disagree totally with the comment that they have better pain endurance - Brain scans show that when men are in pain the area concerned with analysis and problem-solving is the most active. When women are subjected to the same painful stimulus - usually having their arm stuck in a bucket of iced water - it's the limbic system, the part of the brain concerned with emotional responses, that kicks into overdrive.
When men are asked to forget how annoyed they feel about being in pain and to focus more on the unpleasant sensation itself, their level of pain reduces. This doesn't happen in women; it's as if they can't divorce the emotional from the physical aspects of discomfort.
*If* the specific woman is capable of passing the test, then refusing her is nothing short of bigotry. If said woman can't pass it, she can't pass it.
If only 1% of women have the strength of the average man, and even ultra fit, hardened elite soldiers fail the entry requirements in great numbers then realistically, whats the point?
it doesnt matter if women are mentally tougher, better snipers or better organised and smarter than the men - if they can't cart a 100lb load around with them, or have the strength for close combat they could potentially be a burden to their team.
that being said, I'm sure there are many females trained to an incredibly high level - by the CIA etc as well as in the armed forces.
I think a lot of people here belive the Hollywood myth of True Equality.