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Should we just go over the "Fiscal Cliff" and see what happens?

Spy Master 2012/11/30 16:42:06
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I myself would like to see what happens; see the Pres. and his little minions scurrying around like the little animals they are; OR would that just be what they want?

That may be what they wantstock market collapses all along; or not...

Read More: http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-a-b...

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  • Risk 2012/11/30 20:28:49
    Undecided
    Risk
    +12
    The majority of the American public believes Congress is at fault, which is BS ! It takes two to tango, but Obama has got the public believing Congress is to blame and he's playing it for all it's worth. If the public was truly aware of all the facts he wouldn't be president.

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  • Steve 2012/12/07 17:56:44
    yes
    Steve
    Let The Dems own it.
  • Gregaj7 2012/12/05 05:04:32
    yes
    Gregaj7
    For most, the world will not end.
  • TheBadOne 2012/12/04 23:14:43
    no
    TheBadOne
    There's no benefit to it and everyone loses.
  • Mr.Hoodz the Truth Troll 2012/12/04 15:31:35
    Undecided
    Mr.Hoodz the Truth Troll
    +1
    It's going to happen sooner or later. They can't keep propping up the economy by printing more and more money.
  • Katfish 2012/12/04 15:18:43
    yes
    Katfish
    +1
    This "fiscal cliff" should called what it is; A balanced budget. America needs a taste of it to showcase just how bad of a hole we are in.
  • Tasine 2012/12/04 12:21:11
    None of the above
    Tasine
    +1
    Question asked as though we have a choice. We don't. Over the cliff we will go because that is where our dear leaders have taken us and we have been too gutless in the past to indict, try, and imprison them for high crimes and misdemeanors, sedition, and treason.
  • WannaBeRSC the Contrarian SOB 2012/12/04 11:25:11
    yes
    WannaBeRSC the Contrarian SOB
    +1
    I'm for it.
  • wildcat 2012/12/04 01:21:07
    yes
    wildcat
    +1
    I say, let's go over the fiscal cliff. The Bush tax cuts would expire. Then let the Senate pass tax cuts for everyone but those earning more than $350K a year. Then send that bill to the Republican controlled House and see if the Republicans are serious about tax cuts. That way the Republicans will need to put their votes where their mouth is.
  • Heffeweizen 2012/12/04 01:03:17
    yes
    Heffeweizen
    +1
    Let it happen, it's the Dems failure. Republicans need to stand firm and not compromise. The Dems will try to blame them no matter what happens, so stand on principle and let them own it.
  • stevmackey 2012/12/03 20:49:42
    yes
    stevmackey
    +2
    If you have a raft!
  • Bronar 2012/12/02 15:41:38
    no
    Bronar
    That's like saying, should I just start smoking crack daily and see what happens...
  • Cn2012 2012/12/02 02:35:43
    Undecided
    Cn2012
    +1
    I'd say yes except that I'm sure the current administration will spin it and somehow get away scott free. People swallow whatever Obama sais right now. I don't know what kind of blinders they have on but I'm constantly surprised as to how his supporters really think he can do no wrong. It's a mess.
  • Studied Cn2012 2012/12/02 23:18:55
    Studied
    Right and he is playing political chicken with our country.
  • BUCCANEER~POTL~PWCM~JLA 2012/12/01 18:01:02
    no
    BUCCANEER~POTL~PWCM~JLA
    +2
    It's not the fall that does the damage,but the abrupt stop at the bottom fall damagebut abrupt

    splat  funny

    obama just another lie
  • AM 2012/12/01 16:07:55
  • 56lady☆POTL JLA BTO-t- BCRA... 2012/12/01 15:55:54
    yes
    56lady☆POTL JLA BTO-t- BCRA-F's
    +3
    WHERE are the SPENDING CUTS ?!?!?!?!?
  • Searchin' 2012/12/01 05:15:57
    yes
    Searchin'
    If we let the tax breaks expire, won't this put us back to the tax rates that existed during the Clinton administration, and wasn't that a period of great economic growth? And since Bush was such an idiot, how could his tax cuts be a good thing? And aren't the spending cuts actually just holding the funding to current levels, so everything except new expenses should already be funded? So, is this a narrative created by minitru to put more power in Obama's hands?
  • jimmy "In God We Trust" 2012/12/01 05:04:05
    yes
    jimmy  "In God We Trust"
    +2
    Lets hit rock bottom as fast as possible and the take our country back.
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin
  • Spy Master jimmy ... 2012/12/01 16:31:03
    Spy Master
    +1
    good point
  • Popeye 2012/12/01 02:31:40
  • Spy Master Popeye 2012/12/01 02:34:52
    Spy Master
    +2
    that is so true
  • COCO Popeye 2012/12/01 05:03:35
    COCO
    +2
    Very well said.
  • Studied Popeye 2012/12/02 23:20:53
    Studied
    +1
    Thomas Jefferson once said "A wise frugal government which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of a good government." This country needs a new Thomas Jefferson.
  • sjalan 2012/12/01 01:39:15
    no
    sjalan
    With our weakened economy here in the US and even more so overseas, the world would go into a depression that would make the one in the 1930's look like a picnic.
  • Spy Master sjalan 2012/12/01 02:07:32
    Spy Master
    +2
    then we can start it all over again;and do it the right way; the way it was intended; and a depression? naw; too many people would have way too much to lose..and maybe we'd have a chance to kick out ALL the corrupt and incompetent politicians and the government employees we no longer need..time for a total restoration; Dems and GOP both
    too many people doing redundant work; 5 or 6 doing the job of one; we have too many Czars drawing salaries; Hell; what do they even do?
    Too many departments; streamline it..that's what good businesses do..and if any business needs it; the US Government does; open the books to the public; clean house..
    Yeah' like that'll ever happen; and for God's sake; get rid of all the damn lawyers; you write a bill; make it where a 7th grader can understand it; our government and society is too litigious..make it a good place to be from; again....grow a pair America..get on the stick; clean up your act; and cut out all lifetime pensions of The Senate and The House; once they're gone; the American people don't owe them anything..and that's just a start
  • sjalan Spy Master 2012/12/01 02:30:13
    sjalan
    Not much out there for the middle class and working poor to lose anymore. They go raked over the coals from 2001 to 2008 by the Bush II administraton and on into the present because of the continued gifts of public funds to the richest 3% of the country not counting the gifts to Corporations.

    I'll tell ya. When I worked for a government agency, my budget had NO FAT in it at all that I could not itemize the job. I used zero based budgeting for over 15 years and was NEVER ONCE questioned on how I managed to keep such a lean operation and get ALL the work done as required by my superiors. And when the screamed they needed something more done, I'd always come back with a cost analysis of every component of the task being requested and say "Ok you come up with the money, I'll get the job done"

    And no, a 7th grader could not possibly write legislation - bills - that would work. Way to many variables. More than just a few times I had to testify before House and Senate committees to tell them just how foolish their bills were and how much more they were going to cost the public.

    Nope, A lot more goes into making law than you think. Oh and by the way, the retirement benefits of the Senate and House are chicken feed. As a percent of the total budget their benefit package makes up less than 1/100th of a percent of the total budget.
  • Spy Master sjalan 2012/12/01 02:33:00 (edited)
    Spy Master
    +1
    1st; different times; different people..I didn't say a 7th grader would write the bills; just understand them; and maybe they didn't have fat when you were a Go-Op; but it's all different now..and I stand by everything I said
    people need to see it all; enough with the lies; if this causes the country to burn; than I was right all along anyway....
  • sjalan Spy Master 2012/12/01 02:42:41
    sjalan
    I worked at the agency for 37 years. I know what fat was an how to get rid of it. The bean counters didn't like me at all because I was better at their job than they were. As for the present. The last three years I was with the agency, they adopted my methods of budgeting. They had to. We were losing tax revenue and had to account for every single last dime of every single project they had. No slush funds, or bloated budgets. I taught them how to do their jobs. Today they are one of the leanest agencies in the industry.
  • Spy Master sjalan 2012/12/01 02:44:09
    Spy Master
    +1
    I stand by my statement
  • Popeye sjalan 2012/12/01 02:34:51 (edited)
  • sjalan Popeye 2012/12/01 03:14:24
    sjalan
    Got news for you Popeye, you insult the cartoon from which you garner your handle.

    I was NOT the typical government employee. I was totally the opposite. If my net job demands didn't need a job they had listed in the budget it went bye bye. At the same time if there was a job that was needed and it wasn't there and it was a critical job then I made damned sure that it was documented and included.

    And by the way, Freedom and Liberty are not at odds when it comes to big government. You just need to make sure that the big government is run correctly at every level, From the very bottom to the very top.

    The people on the bottom are no different that you and I. The ones on top, just as in big business today, need to understand that it is the people who contract them to do the work of the citizens ARE in control, just as with big business we don't like their ethics we boycott them and they are out of business.

    At the same time when the direction of the countries social conscience heads in one way, they better get on board or they will be left behind.
  • Popeye sjalan 2012/12/01 14:56:46
  • sjalan Popeye 2012/12/01 18:34:29
    sjalan
    It is quite obvious that you as speaking about managers and systems that are not like what I worked with and made work correctly. When I went to work for the agency back in 1967, there was a culture much like you describe, one of waste kickbacks corruption and thieves. Bluntly put we were hemorrhaging money faster than we took it in and do our jobs.

    The straw that broke the camels back was when the director hired two assistants that were so blatant that they were tried, convicted and jailed for 15 years for theft and fraud. After that the district put in place checks and balances and a massive program to cut costs and do the job the people hired us to do.

    From that point on, our agency ran as tight a ship as was possible AND every single project and program came in ahead of time and under budget. Why? Because we were PROFESSIONAL at what we did. We instituted programs that saved money and at the same time brought education to our employees that allowed them to do their jobs better and more efficiently.

    It took us a long time to get it right, but finally we did and the net result has been that the agency is look up to by the rest of the industry.

    This is not simple rhetoric or back slapping, it is real fact. Our employees were encouraged to find cost savings at every opportunity...





    It is quite obvious that you as speaking about managers and systems that are not like what I worked with and made work correctly. When I went to work for the agency back in 1967, there was a culture much like you describe, one of waste kickbacks corruption and thieves. Bluntly put we were hemorrhaging money faster than we took it in and do our jobs.

    The straw that broke the camels back was when the director hired two assistants that were so blatant that they were tried, convicted and jailed for 15 years for theft and fraud. After that the district put in place checks and balances and a massive program to cut costs and do the job the people hired us to do.

    From that point on, our agency ran as tight a ship as was possible AND every single project and program came in ahead of time and under budget. Why? Because we were PROFESSIONAL at what we did. We instituted programs that saved money and at the same time brought education to our employees that allowed them to do their jobs better and more efficiently.

    It took us a long time to get it right, but finally we did and the net result has been that the agency is look up to by the rest of the industry.

    This is not simple rhetoric or back slapping, it is real fact. Our employees were encouraged to find cost savings at every opportunity. I'll give you and example of just how deep this commitment went to do the best job we could do.

    Our service department did a zero based study on how much we were spending on brake jobs for the vehicles. They found that not only were we spending about 40% more by having a contractor do the work but we had no control over the quality of the work. When problems arose it was a time wasting process to deal with warranty claims of shoddy workmanship. We brought the entire operation in house. Net Net, we saved over a million dollars a year.

    A second example was in the engine servicing. The average oil and filter change was taking 4 hours. Because we had antiquated canister filters on the fleet. We did a study on that and found that we would save more than a $1,350,000 a year in labor alone by retrofitting the entire fleet with spin on filters and do oil analysis every 5000 miles, in house also. The real results were amazing, Our 1st year savings was $1,450,000 INCLUDING the cost of the retrofits. The second year we saved over $2.2 million. These actions reduced our labor expense, our waste oil expense, our hazardous materials expense across the board.

    This is not back slapping it is REAL PEOPLE DOING THEIR JOBS. You can't deal with the fact that there are some agencies that DO THEIR JOBS, then I don't need to listen to your negative BS either.
    (more)
  • Popeye sjalan 2012/12/01 22:37:22
  • sjalan Popeye 2012/12/01 22:39:19
    sjalan
    Really? I really don't think you quite understand that the service provided benefits everyone. So before you make those kinds of comments you should really think about it.
  • Popeye sjalan 2012/12/01 23:02:02
  • sjalan Popeye 2012/12/02 01:09:09
    sjalan
    To which services are you referring?
  • Studied sjalan 2012/12/01 02:40:40
    Studied
    +1
    Who do you think gave you those tax breaks they are talking about now? As for their retirement benefits, I don't care how little the make up of the budget. They need to give some back also.
  • sjalan Studied 2012/12/01 03:18:29
    sjalan
    What tax breaks? I never saw a single one. My tax rate NEVER varies below 21%. I am one of those in the center of this mess that got screwed from both sides of the equation. Made to much to get the lower income rates and not enough to hide it in the tax breaks to the upper 3%.

    Figure that one out.

    Oh and by the way, You better hope they address the AMT by the end of the year as well, cause Almost EVERYONE making over $40K will be paying more under that as well.
  • Studied sjalan 2012/12/01 03:40:13
    Studied
    +1
    I am aware of that as I am in the same place,

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