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Should top Israeli political and military leaders be tried for war crimes in the Hague?

Gulliver 2009/02/09 09:13:26
No, this statement is clearly anti-Semitic.
Yes, a trial would bring out the truth whatever the outcome.
No, this is absurd!
Yes, absolutely!
Undecided
None of the above
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The following is an excerpt from Stephen Lendman's article:

http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2009/01/israel-killed-everythin...

Francis Boyle is a law professor, human rights expert, and former legal advisor to the Palestinian Delegation to the Middle East Peace Negotiations leading to the 1993 Oslo Accords. He elaborates on "different degrees of heinousness for war crimes." More serious are "grave breaches" of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Since the First Intifada (1987), "the world has seen those heinous war crimes inflicted every day by Israel against the Palestinian people living in occupied Palestine" - by Israeli forces and illegal settlers. Fourth Geneva mandates their prosecution, "including and especially Israel's political leaders."

"Crimes against humanity" are also committed "as determined by the UN Human Rights Commission....The concept" is from the 1945 Nuremberg Charter, drafted by America to try Nazi war criminals. These crimes include:

"murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation, and other inhumane acts committed against a civilian population, before or during the war, or prosecutions on political, racial or religious grounds in execution of or in connection with any crime within the jurisdiction of the Tribunal, whether or not in violation of the domestic law of the country where perpetrated." Israel is criminally liable for committing them. So is America as a co-conspirator.

Nuremberg is the "historical and legal precursor to the international crime of genocide as defined by the 1948 Genocide Convention." It's very specific and includes killing; causing serious bodily or mental harm; and destroying a group "in whole or in part."

Since late 1947, Israel's "final solution" has been the total annihilation and/or displacement of the Palestinian people:

"For at least the past six decades, the Israeli government and its predecessors-in-law - the Zionist agencies, forces, and terrorist gangs - have ruthlessly implemented a systematic and comprehensive military, political, and economic campaign with the intent to destroy in substantial part the national, ethnical, racial, and different religious (mix of Muslims and Christians) constituting the Palestinian people....(This US - Israeli) campaign (is designed to destroy them) in violation of Article II(c) of the Genocide Convention."

Its Article I "requires all contracting parties....'to prevent and to punish' genocide. Yet to the contrary," Israel's genocidal wars on Palestine have "been financed, armed, equipped, supplied and politically supported by the (Judeo - Christian) United States" - even though America is a contracting party to Nuremberg, Geneva, and the UN Charter that prohibit such practices.

Nor did Washington and the international community demand "humanitarian intervention" to stop Israeli aggression and protect a defenseless people. America funds the Israeli killing machine. It can as easily de-fund it and halt the violence. Boyle calls failure to do it "dishumanitarian intervention (or) humanitarian extermination" by the US and Israel "against the Palestinians and Palestine."

Through his efforts, on January 13, the Malaysia Star reported a "special (Malaysian) Parliament session" voted for Israel to be brought before a UN-sanctioned international war crimes tribunal "for its atrocities and violence on the Palestinian people."

It also expressed "disappointment" that the international community and Security Council failed to halt the attacks. Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi said "resolutions would be presented to the relevant parliaments, the United States Congress and the European Parliament."

Abdullah called for Malaysians to unite "against the inhumane actions of the Zionist regime. The attacks by Israel have contravened international laws and such actions are deemed war crimes...."

Abdullah said his call for a special UN session to condemn Israel was boosted when the General Assembly agreed to hold one to urge the Security Council to act. It did not because "Israel didn't want it," and America supports Israel. It also rejects the legitimately elected Hamas government, and it lets Israel "kill children, the elderly, women, and other innocent ordinary people..."
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  • Feck Sodahed 2009/02/09 14:05:04
    Yes, absolutely!
    Feck Sodahed
    +3
    Israel's military an political leaders should be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity....and the sooner the better.... so we can finally stop the absurdity of sending trllions of dollars to Israel. Our money could be better spent here at home ...rather in supporting the rogue zionist government!

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  • em 2009/02/14 13:15:17
    None of the above
    em
    +2
    why not get all the leaders from all the angered countries, put them in a large room, and tell them that they cannot leave until they work this out... with cameras on them, and no killing allowed.
    and have them repeat kindergarten several times...
    be nice, learn to share, and take a time out. yada yada yada.
    there is enough food and enough money to go around,
    stop the hate, the violence, the blaming, the fighting, the greed.
    gee, a short rant from me this time...
    haha, altho this really is not funny at all.
  • Gulliver em 2009/02/14 20:53:41 (edited)
    Gulliver
    +1
    This might be a good idea, em, if it were not for the fact that we are dealing with preschool, egocentric morality coupled with the physical capability of the violent, adolescent delinquent. Do you think that the problem just might be in the leadership on both sides? Do you suppose that we might best focus our consciousness, thoughts, and actions on encouraging awareness and action in the people of Palestine and Israel to throw the "bums" out, all of them, in a clean sweep and to choose some rational, humane leaders like Judah Magnes, "the forgotten Jewish Prophet," who unfortunately died in 1948; see,

    http://themagneszionist.blogs...

    ...or like Jeremiah Haber, the Jewish scholar who wrote the above article, or like Father Elias Chacour, a Palestine priest in the Melkite Catholic Church, which dates back to the Byzantine period and Constantine, who has written two books entitled "Blood Brothers" and "We Belong to the Land" .

    http://lluker.faculty.ltss.ed...

    Yes, I think that people, to the extent that they pay attention to the Palestine/Israel conflict, either rage and fight one another or they laugh at their feeling of helplessness and impotence. What is needed is for people to learn how to use their "Wise Minds" rather than Rational or Emotional thinking in isolation.
    This might be a good idea, em, if it were not for the fact that we are dealing with preschool, egocentric morality coupled with the physical capability of the violent, adolescent delinquent. Do you think that the problem just might be in the leadership on both sides? Do you suppose that we might best focus our consciousness, thoughts, and actions on encouraging awareness and action in the people of Palestine and Israel to throw the "bums" out, all of them, in a clean sweep and to choose some rational, humane leaders like Judah Magnes, "the forgotten Jewish Prophet," who unfortunately died in 1948; see,

    http://themagneszionist.blogs...

    ...or like Jeremiah Haber, the Jewish scholar who wrote the above article, or like Father Elias Chacour, a Palestine priest in the Melkite Catholic Church, which dates back to the Byzantine period and Constantine, who has written two books entitled "Blood Brothers"and "We Belong to the Land".

    http://lluker.faculty.ltss.ed...

    Yes, I think that people, to the extent that they pay attention to the Palestine/Israel conflict, either rage and fight one another or they laugh at their feeling of helplessness and impotence. What is needed is for people to learn how to use their "Wise Minds" rather than Rational or Emotional thinking in isolation.
    (more)
  • VICTORIA em 2009/04/21 22:07:26
    VICTORIA
    +1
    We should follow the south african reconciliation model.
    Look at the Rwandans- 15 years after the massive genocide- 1 million in 3 months-
    they are working together to build new communities after successfully and painfully addressing , forgiving , and facing those who murdered their families.

    http://www.loc.gov/rr/amed/af...
  • Gulliver VICTORIA 2009/04/21 23:23:43
    Gulliver
    +1
    Efforts toward conflict resolution and mediation represent, of course, the sane and humane course of action that needs to be taken. However, it is important to recognize that conflict resolution is only possible when CONFLICT is not the GOAL by one or both parties. The Zionist leaders, for the most part, want as pure a Jewish state as they can achieve. Some of the Palestinian leaders have the converse view.

    But, the elephant in the mediation room is the economic and military support given to the Israelis, as a result of the pro-Israeli lobby in the U.S. We have given them over $100 Billion from American taxpayers to carry out their campaign of terror and oppression perpetrated on the Palestinians. Why? Israel is now the 4th largest military power in the world. They have a highly advanced technological society. They stand head and shoulders over other countries in the Middle East in military strength and technological expertise, much of which comes to this country. Shouldn't the outflow of tax dollars stop? Don't we need this money here at home rather than supporting the criminal devastation recently wreaked by the Zionists on Gaza? Don't we need to stop our blind support of this spoiled, deliquent nation? Don't we need to stop condoning the apartheid that is as bad or worse than...

    Efforts toward conflict resolution and mediation represent, of course, the sane and humane course of action that needs to be taken. However, it is important to recognize that conflict resolution is only possible when CONFLICT is not the GOAL by one or both parties. The Zionist leaders, for the most part, want as pure a Jewish state as they can achieve. Some of the Palestinian leaders have the converse view.

    But, the elephant in the mediation room is the economic and military support given to the Israelis, as a result of the pro-Israeli lobby in the U.S. We have given them over $100 Billion from American taxpayers to carry out their campaign of terror and oppression perpetrated on the Palestinians. Why? Israel is now the 4th largest military power in the world. They have a highly advanced technological society. They stand head and shoulders over other countries in the Middle East in military strength and technological expertise, much of which comes to this country. Shouldn't the outflow of tax dollars stop? Don't we need this money here at home rather than supporting the criminal devastation recently wreaked by the Zionists on Gaza? Don't we need to stop our blind support of this spoiled, deliquent nation? Don't we need to stop condoning the apartheid that is as bad or worse than occurred in South Africa?

    http://revisionistreview.blog...
    (more)
  • VICTORIA Gulliver 2009/04/21 23:30:11 (edited)
    VICTORIA
    +1
    Here is a well known study reported by Washington Report by Stephen Zunes on foreign aid to Israel-
    http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_...

    And yes, we do need to recognize that Israel is an apartheid state.

    You may be interested in this blog-
    http://www.sodahead.com/blog/...
  • Gulliver VICTORIA 2009/04/22 00:33:30 (edited)
    Gulliver
    Yes, I had seen the first report. This written in 2000 is most interesting.

    "Washington Report on Middle East Affairs," December 2000, Pages 15-16

    Congress Watch

    http://www.wrmea.com/archives...

    A Conservative Total for U.S. Aid to Israel: $91 Billion—and Counting

    By Shirl McArthur

    "With the turmoil surrounding the presidential election essentially freezing Congress into inaction, this is probably a good time to take another look at aid to Israel. The common figure given for U.S. aid to Israel is $3 billion per year—$1.2 billion in economic aid and $1.8 billion in military aid. As impressive as this figure is, however, since it represents about one-sixth of total U.S. foreign aid, the true figure is even more remarkable. It is difficult, however, to arrive at an exact number. Much of the money the U.S. gives Israel is buried in the budgets of other government agencies, primarily the Defense Department (DOD). Other subsidies come in a form that isn’t easily quantifiable, such as the early disbursement of aid, which allows Israel to gain (and the U.S. taxpayer to lose) the interest on the unspent money."

    This is incredible. How many countries are there now in the world? Well, 195 seems to be the most recent count. And, how many of these are third world countries? Well,...








    ""







    ""





    Yes, I had seen the first report. This written in 2000 is most interesting.

    "Washington Report on Middle East Affairs," December 2000, Pages 15-16

    Congress Watch

    http://www.wrmea.com/archives...

    A Conservative Total for U.S. Aid to Israel: $91 Billion—and Counting

    By Shirl McArthur

    "With the turmoil surrounding the presidential election essentially freezing Congress into inaction, this is probably a good time to take another look at aid to Israel. The common figure given for U.S. aid to Israel is $3 billion per year—$1.2 billion in economic aid and $1.8 billion in military aid. As impressive as this figure is, however, since it represents about one-sixth of total U.S. foreign aid, the true figure is even more remarkable. It is difficult, however, to arrive at an exact number. Much of the money the U.S. gives Israel is buried in the budgets of other government agencies, primarily the Defense Department (DOD). Other subsidies come in a form that isn’t easily quantifiable, such as the early disbursement of aid, which allows Israel to gain (and the U.S. taxpayer to lose) the interest on the unspent money."

    This is incredible. How many countries are there now in the world? Well, 195 seems to be the most recent count. And, how many of these are third world countries? Well, of the 192 UN member countries, 179 had sufficient data to rank them in terms of Human Development measures (2006 data).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Note that the U.S. is ranked #15 in terms of Human Development, while Israel is not far behind at #24 (both are in the most highly developed group of 75 countries), and Israel surpasses countries such as: South Korea, (#25), Portugal (#33), Czech Republic (#35), Hungary (#38), Bulgaria (#56), Venezuela (#61), Romania (#62), and Brazil (#70). Israel is just behind the UK (#21) and Germany (#23)!!!

    Yet, we were giving them 1/6 of our total foreign aid in 2000????!!!! And, 40% of that aid is economic!!!!????? (This was in 2000; we have cut the economic aid and boosted the military aid now.)

    Here is another perspective published in 2005.

    "Israel is the single largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid nearly one-third of the total direct bi-lateral aid. If we exclude Egypt whose disproportionate share of aid came as a result of agreements made with Israel at Camp David, and Columbia, which receives enormous aid to prosecute a brutal military campaign allegedly aimed at drug trafficking, Israel receives more than all of Latin America, the Caribbean, and Africa combined. That is, one of the richest countries in the world, a country of around 6 million people, receives more aid than two entire continents including some of the poorest regions in the world" [emphasis added].

    http://alawda.rso.wisc.edu/ai...

    What is wrong with this picture? Why are we SUBSIDIZING a country with a higher level of development than the UK and Germany?????

    Palestine ranks 106 in the world. How much do we give them? Over the past 5 years we have given them $942 million or an average $188 million per year. How much have we given Israel?

    "In 2007, the United States increased its military aid to Israel by over 25% to an average of $3 billion per year for the following ten year period, while ending economic aid." So, the estimate for 2007 and 2008 is $6 billion.

    In 2007, the U.S aid to Palestine was $69 million and in 2008, it was $414 million. That is a combined total of $483 million or $0.483 billion in two years, less than half a billion.

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibra...

    Thus, during the past two years, we gave Israel more than 12 times as much foreign aid as we gave Palestine whose people have been continually suffering under terrorizing attacks and demolition of property and infrastructure by the Israeli IDF.
    (more)
  • VICTORIA Gulliver 2009/04/22 01:02:26
    VICTORIA
    +1
    I just love it when people actually support their points with a substantiated link. It is so refresing.
    I remember that article.
    And, a note-
    We have broken our own laws limiting foreign aid to any country for over 10 years.

    Since you see to enjoy resources as much as I- this is nationmasters amd a pretty good source for international comparison and stats

    http://www.nationmaster.com/i...

    peace
  • Gulliver VICTORIA 2009/04/22 02:17:24
    Gulliver
    +1
    When have we not broken our own laws?

    Thanks for the link.
  • VICTORIA Gulliver 2009/04/22 14:56:27
    VICTORIA
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/...

    "The Obama Administration will put forth new peace initiatives only if Israel wants it to, said Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman in his first comprehensive interview on foreign policy since taking office.

    "Believe me, America accepts all our decisions," Lieberman told the Russian daily Moskovskiy Komosolets."

    This observation by the extremist Lieberman may ot be far from the truth-
    (the article is dated today because Haaretz updates- it apppeared yesterday)

    Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told US lawmakers Wednesday(today) re: Iran-.

    "We are also laying the groundwork for the kind of very tough sanctions, I think you said crippling sanctions, that might be necessary in the event that our offers are either rejected or the process is inconclusive or unsuccessful," Clinton said at a Congress hearing on US foreign policy."
  • Gulliver VICTORIA 2009/04/23 02:39:33
    Gulliver
    Very interesting, but not so new. Israel's control of the U.S. has been known for a long time to the breed infamously called "conspiracy theorists" or "anti-Semites" or both. Some have said that Israel is the lap dog of the U.S., when it is clear that the reverse is true.

    Lieberman is quoted as sayin in the Haaretz article:

    "I do not think that this makes anyone in China, Russia or the U.S. happy ... these countries [Pakistan and Afghanistan] are a threat not only to Israel, but to the global order as a whole."

    Someone tell me how Pakistan or Afghanistan is a threat to the U.S., as implied, or the global order. They are only a threat to those who wish to control the supply routes for siphoning off the oil, gas, and whatever other resources available or the strategic areas for military superiority in any conflict.
  • VICTORIA Gulliver 2009/04/23 06:27:32
    VICTORIA
    +1
    no, it's not new- but to say so brazenly and boast so openly-
    There is an implicit acknowledgement there-
    Lieberman is an extremist, clawed his way in there riding on the public disappointment with Omert for not being bloodthirsty enough- but his ease with which he imparts this- is a new boldness
    It is much more savvy to remain the neverending victim- the incompetent and powerless lapdog-
    so benign and put upon- so innocent-

    Pakistan is tenuously hanging on to it's own government, ready to fly apart at any moment-
    Kharzai just wants to slipthrough the next elections-

    Some threat -
  • Gulliver VICTORIA 2009/04/23 06:39:14
    Gulliver
    +1
    I agree. And, am enjoying the interchange.
  • fuzzy Ken "In G*d We Trust" 2009/02/10 22:22:06
    Yes, absolutely!
    fuzzy Ken "In G*d We Trust"
    I would love for Israel to get before the world court.
    Let them show the world how the Palestinians use their women and children as walking bombs and human shields. There is tons of documentation showing how Hamas set up their women and children to get killed during the last encounter. Let's air it all.
    Let's also air all the documentation, the TV and radio broadcasts encouraging children and women to join the cult of martyrdom.
    Let the world see Palestinians drawing Israeli gunfire to schools, Mosques and hospitals knowing they were full of women and children.

    I wonder, is Hamas calling for the Hague to investigate Israel? Would they really want all this to be brought out in court?
    While we're at it, let's bring in Hamas, Islamic Jihad,the al Aqsa martyrs Brigade and Hezbollah for purposely targeting civilians. That too is a war crime.
  • Gulliver fuzzy K... 2009/02/10 22:58:44
    Gulliver
    +1
    You and me both! Let's get to the bottom of the purported actions of Hamas (purported by Zionists, so we can't be sure what to believe, since there is so much Zionist propaganda, as well that of Islamic extremists, floating on the surface of susceptible minds like so much flotsam). As I have said to you before, I do not excuse the violence of Islamic extremists, but we are talking about the egregious ongoing criminal behavior of the Zionist regimes. Oppresed people respond in whatever way that they have available to defend themselves. And, they are brutally repressed whether you choose to open your eyes to it or not.

    "Christian Atheists," or more commonly known as Christian Zionists, are the major culprits in covering up the outrageous behaviors of the Israeli governments toward the Palestinians.

    http://www.christianzionism.o...

    The La Grange Declaration written in 1971 documents the concern in the U.S. for the the plight of the Palestinians.

    "Forthrightly, we declare our conviction that in the process of establishing the State of Israel, a deep injustice was done to the Palestinian people, confiscating their land and driving many into exile and even death. We are further grieved by the ongoing deprivation of basic civil rights to those Arabs who live today in the State of ..."







    You and me both! Let's get to the bottom of the purported actions of Hamas (purported by Zionists, so we can't be sure what to believe, since there is so much Zionist propaganda, as well that of Islamic extremists, floating on the surface of susceptible minds like so much flotsam). As I have said to you before, I do not excuse the violence of Islamic extremists, but we are talking about the egregious ongoing criminal behavior of the Zionist regimes. Oppresed people respond in whatever way that they have available to defend themselves. And, they are brutally repressed whether you choose to open your eyes to it or not.

    "Christian Atheists," or more commonly known as Christian Zionists, are the major culprits in covering up the outrageous behaviors of the Israeli governments toward the Palestinians.

    http://www.christianzionism.o...

    The La Grange Declaration written in 1971 documents the concern in the U.S. for the the plight of the Palestinians.

    "Forthrightly, we declare our conviction that in the process of establishing the State of Israel, a deep injustice was done to the Palestinian people, confiscating their land and driving many into exile and even death. We are further grieved by the ongoing deprivation of basic civil rights to those Arabs who live today in the State of Israel."

    Note again that the foregoing was written at least 27 years ago.

    You continue to talk of the Palestinians using women and children as human shields, but you ignore all of the evidence of the same being done by the Israeli soldiers.



    (more)
  • fuzzy K... Gulliver 2009/02/10 23:08:03
    fuzzy Ken "In G*d We Trust"
    Not that either side's actions are excusable, but the sheer magnitude of Palestinians being set up for slaughter by their own government dwarfs the isolated incidents of Israel using human shields. Neither are right. It's just different shades of gray
  • Gulliver Gulliver 2009/02/10 23:11:28 (edited)
    Gulliver
    +1
    I want to preface this comment with the observation that focusing repeatedly on the issue of human shields to distract attention from the atrocities being committed continually by the IDF is a tired tactic that ignores the charges brought by human rights organizations continually, both non-Israeli and Israeli alike. Address those issues and everyone would see that in an International court, the actions of a few extremist Palestinians would pale in comparison to what the IDF has perpetrated on Palestinian citizens.

    It would be rather like comparing a few knife wielding felons with a group of serial killers banded together by a shared sociopathic ideology and possessing the most horrendous weaponry known to man.

    Consider the following for a summary of such reported crimes. Scroll down for a summary of the charges by a legal authority.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/...

    That being said, here is another more detailed version of the incidents reported in the first video attached to my previous comment.

  • VICTORIA Gulliver 2009/04/21 22:10:59
    VICTORIA
    +1
    Thank you- these links are invaluable.
  • brooklynBoy 2009/02/09 20:37:43
    Yes, absolutely!
    brooklynBoy
    +2
    Yes they should. As the nazi's where hunted down and tried for the holocaust, as hamas leaders are assasinated on a daily basis, and as any unjust actions taken toward humanity should be resolved in court.. isreal should be held accountable for the murder of innocent civilians and the use of chemical weapons banned by the UN. Isreal should not be above the law, as they always have been. No one nation should have more pull in the UN then any other.
  • Feck Sodahed 2009/02/09 14:05:04
    Yes, absolutely!
    Feck Sodahed
    +3
    Israel's military an political leaders should be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity....and the sooner the better.... so we can finally stop the absurdity of sending trllions of dollars to Israel. Our money could be better spent here at home ...rather in supporting the rogue zionist government!
  • Lt. Fred 2009/02/09 10:29:59
    Yes, a trial would bring out the truth whatever the outcome.
    Lt. Fred
    +2
    Amnesty International has called for an investigation, theefore this sems to be in order.

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