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Should Tom Cruise of been given a Humanitarian award at the Simon Wiesenthal Center's annual dinner?

reaper 2011/05/07 09:38:11
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As reported by Danielle Berrin, in her blog for the Jewish Journal, Tom Cruise is about to be given a humanitarian award at the Simon Wiesenthal Center's annual dinner. It is to be held at the Beverly Wilshire Four Seasons Hotel in Los Angeles on Thursday.


Cruise's own personal deeds, as well as his intimate relationship with Scientology's leadership, have led to reactions to this decision. Human rights activists and ex-Scientologists have said they will protest the event, and some supporters of the SWC have in their disgust re-directed their support to other organizations.


I will sum up the cases for and against giving this award to Tom Cruise. Each point will first be listed in short, and then be elaborated on. My position is not neutral, but even so I will try to refrain from creating obvious straw man arguments here. If you have better arguments on either side, feel free to post them as comments below.


FOR:

- F1 He gave them money, and we don't care what he believes or supports beyond that.

- F2 Who cares about this award anyway, can't we let him and his friends have a little award show in peace and quiet?

- F3 Perhaps by giving Tom Cruise this award, he might do the right thing in the future.

- F4 Holocaust studies are more important than any abuses committed by Scientology.

- F5 Tom Cruise deserves the award because Scientology owns a lot of nice real estate. (This should have been a straw man, but it's actually a real and repeated argument.)


AGAINST:

- A1 Tom Cruise personally promotes Holocaust revisionism.

- A2 Tom Cruise personally promotes "PTS/SP" and the "Tone Scale" - instruments for justifying despotism and even genocide.

- A3 Tom Cruise personally had his motorcycles, truck and airplane hangar worked on by trafficked and captive labor. Tom Cruise has also lived as a pampered guest at a labor camp in Riverside, CA.

- A4 Tom Cruise is a close personal friend of Scientology's leader David Miscavige, who was even the best man at his wedding. Tom Cruise is far from powerless to stop the abuses and fraud that Scientology commits. He's not any old member. He could speak out. Of particular concern to the SWC should be:

-- A4A Church of Scientology's long-standing Holocaust revisionism and trivialization.

-- A4B It being a totalitarian organization with dystopian designs on the world.

-- A4C It forms alliances with extremist groups like Louis Farrakhan's racist Nation of Islam

-- A4D Its intolerance of independent Scientologists

you can read more about it here http://littlegreenfootballs.com/page/245944_The_absurd_Wiesen...

It should also be noted that scientology was in fact responsible for forging bomb threats in the name of a young journalist named Paulette Cooper back in the 1970's. What makes this significant is the fact Paulette Cooper is a jewish women who happened to be born in Auschwitz and her parents were killed soon after by nazis.

these are the facts people, discuss, and yes even the scientologist can post as they want. I am for free speech, unlike some people that prove themselves to have an agenda but i'm not going to stop you from speaking about how you feel.


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Top Opinion

  • iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~ 2011/05/07 11:55:37
    umm, what?
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    +5
    I would originally have stated that, no matter what good or bad is represented by Scientologists, Tom Cruise is (kind of) in the end his own person.

    BUT, that actually hinges on whether the first answer against that you posted here is true:

    Tom Cruise personally promotes Holocaust revisionism.

    IF THAT IS TRUE, the SWC, named for someone who spent his life tirelessly and until its end bringing those responsible for the holocaust to justice, has absolutely no place giving him an award. That one single point of advocacy on Cruise's part undermines the essential reason for the SWC's existence.

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  • Paul V. Tupointeau 2011/06/01 22:43:28
    umm, what?
    Paul V. Tupointeau
    If he bought it, he should have it ;-)
    Otherwise, no: What did he do to deserve it? This is very damaging to the Wiesenthal Center's credibility!
  • AnonRanGER 2011/05/09 10:08:54
    umm, what?
    AnonRanGER
    +3
    For WHAT exactly? Advertising a cult whose unchangable "scriptures" include things like this? (caps mine)

    "A truly Suppressive Person or group has NO RIGHTS OF ANY KIND and actions taken against them are NOT PUNISHABLE."
    - L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 1 March 1965, HCO (Division 1) "Ethics, Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists"
    [SP = Suppressive Person a.k.a. critic of Scientology]

    "There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the Tone Scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to DISPOSE OF THEM QUIETLY AND WITHOUT SORROW."
    - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 170

    "In any event, any person from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale SHOULD NOT HAVE, in any thinking society, ANY CIVIL RIGHTS OF ANY KIND, because by abusing those rights he brings into being arduous and strenuous laws which are oppressive to those who need no such restraints."
    - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, 1989 Ed., p. 145 [The "Tone Scale" is Scientology’s measure of mental and spiritual health. People like ...



















    For WHAT exactly? Advertising a cult whose unchangable "scriptures" include things like this? (caps mine)

    "A truly Suppressive Person or group has NO RIGHTS OF ANY KIND and actions taken against them are NOT PUNISHABLE."
    - L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 1 March 1965, HCO (Division 1) "Ethics, Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists"
    [SP = Suppressive Person a.k.a. critic of Scientology]

    "There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the Tone Scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to DISPOSE OF THEM QUIETLY AND WITHOUT SORROW."
    - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 170

    "In any event, any person from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale SHOULD NOT HAVE, in any thinking society, ANY CIVIL RIGHTS OF ANY KIND, because by abusing those rights he brings into being arduous and strenuous laws which are oppressive to those who need no such restraints."
    - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, 1989 Ed., p. 145 [The "Tone Scale" is Scientology’s measure of mental and spiritual health. People like homosexuals, mentally challenged people and critics are below 2.0]

    "ENEMY SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed."
    - L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 18 October 1967

    "The sudden and abrupt deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the Tone Scale from the social order would result in an almost instant rise in the cultural tone and would interrupt the dwindling spiral into which any society may have entered."
    - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 170

    "Unfortunately, it is all too often true that suppressors to a creative action must be removed before construction and creation takes place. Any person very high on the Tone Scale may level destruction toward a suppressor."
    - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 159

    "We're playing for blood, the stake is EARTH."
    - L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 7 November 1962


    Does that mindset sound familiar to you?

    Also google "homo novis", $cientology's version of the "ubermensch", which "towers above mere homo sapiens like a skyscraper".


    So I ask again... WHY would Tom Cruise even be considered for this award?
    (more)
  • allhailbob 2011/05/07 14:43:15
    umm, what?
    allhailbob
    +3
    L Ron Hubbard, Tom's guru, blamed the world's problems on Jewish bankers, amongst others, and Scientology blames the Holacaust on psychiatrists and psychology. So it's a bit strange that the SWC would award the figurehead of Scientology anything.
  • iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~ 2011/05/07 11:55:37
    umm, what?
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    +5
    I would originally have stated that, no matter what good or bad is represented by Scientologists, Tom Cruise is (kind of) in the end his own person.

    BUT, that actually hinges on whether the first answer against that you posted here is true:

    Tom Cruise personally promotes Holocaust revisionism.

    IF THAT IS TRUE, the SWC, named for someone who spent his life tirelessly and until its end bringing those responsible for the holocaust to justice, has absolutely no place giving him an award. That one single point of advocacy on Cruise's part undermines the essential reason for the SWC's existence.
  • reaper iamthem... 2011/05/07 17:33:43 (edited)
    reaper
    +5
    scientology makes claims that the Holocaust was all planned out by psychiatrists. it's the scapegoat they chose for the worlds problems. they also claim psychology is responsible for 9/11, the slave trade, and a number of other things.

  • iamthem... reaper 2011/05/07 17:48:56
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    +1
    One cannot assume that members of a group hold each and every public statement, position, or belief of other members in or leaders of the group.

    Unless Tom Cruise is saying it, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
  • reaper iamthem... 2011/05/07 18:05:53 (edited)
    reaper
    +4
    hubbard himself only started writing stuff attacking it because the medical and mental health community asked him about his research from when he wrote dianetics. pissed off about it, when hubbard was starting up scientology he decided to make it there scapegoat for the worlds problems.

  • VICTORIA 2011/05/07 10:01:52
    if he is helping I don't see why not.
    VICTORIA
    What does 2011 have to do with the Holocaust?
  • reaper VICTORIA 2011/05/07 17:37:55
    reaper
    +1
    lets just say there area number of things scientology has in common with nazi germany. now i'm not saying scientologist are nazis at all, just that there are similarities,
  • VICTORIA reaper 2011/05/07 19:03:10
    VICTORIA
    +1
    Well, you kind of are saying that they're nazis.
    Which is always sort of a conversation stopper.

    I read most of the article, it didn't seem to have much in the way of cons-
    except in a general anti-scientology way.

    I try to be careful not to condemn people for the whole scope of actions of a group they may belong to.
  • reaper VICTORIA 2011/05/07 19:21:45 (edited)
    reaper
    +3
    not exactly, there are a number of other groups that have things in common with them but would also condemn them. totalitarian tend not to like each other.

    i just find it hard to believe that a person can get an award for supporting a taking part of an organization who makes to be highly moral and ethical, but is responsible for medical malpractice, covering up criminal acts like raping a 16 year old girl



    and harassment campaigns on people who speak out. i personally have been stalked, threatened, assaulted, had people go around my place telling bogus crap about me to my neighbors, my personal info posted online a number of times, and even someone go on my youtube page and call me a sex offender, and thats just being nice. i have never seen this kind of behavior condemned by any other scientologist, only encouraged. and there is a lot of videos online of people get homes protested, accused of being drug dealers, child molesters, and being attacked by scientologist
  • VICTORIA reaper 2011/05/07 19:27:41
    VICTORIA
    +1
    I have my own experiences with scientology but have learned in life to separate individuals from groups.
    If Tom Cruise did any of these things- I'd have a problem.
    But it sounds like you're waging your wn personal battle with some individuals- and I hope you can find resolution.

    O, for the record, not trying to pick or anything- your title-

    Should Tom Cruise of been given a Humanitarian award at the Simon Wiesenthal Center's annual dinner?

    I am pretty sure you must mean
    "Should Tom Cruise HAVE been given" not OF.

    It sounds like 'of', but is have.
  • reaper VICTORIA 2011/05/07 19:43:17
    reaper
    +3
    aright, tried to fix title, can't, carp, oh well. but yeah, whats going on is a war of information. we found this site and noticed scientologist abusing it for PR reason and just like how i've always seen attacking people that speak out.

    and what else i've noticed was the work they are doing to keep people from reading critical posts, by replying to each other diving posts like that from someone like me down so people won't even notice or read it. my reason for speak out against scientology at first had to do with someone going to my place and threatening me just because i happened to be at a protest checking out what was going on, then as i learned more of hat they do to other people i decided to stay and try yo help them out from the intense harassment they got
  • VICTORIA reaper 2011/05/07 19:48:18
    VICTORIA
    Oh that's alright. I know- I've tried to change titles in the past too.
    Yes, they probably have admin on the job of censoring posts full time I bet.

    Ah, that's a shame. I know they have some strong political pull in S.CA.
  • reaper VICTORIA 2011/05/07 19:52:56
    reaper
    +2
    the political pull is the scary part. we're trying to work with them about it but it is hard process, but you have to try anyways, just hope we can get through some how. the main reason it's a problem is jim jones did the same thing back in the 70's, try to get in good graces with elected officials.
  • VICTORIA reaper 2011/05/08 02:09:47
    VICTORIA
    Yes, i was almost kidnapped in Hollywood by some very odd scientologists in their center.

    They were literally heading people out on buses- to sea I believe.

    I'm a little familiar with their dianetics and methods.
    It's odd. I think they play hard on people's emotional problems.
  • reaper VICTORIA 2011/05/08 02:46:05
    reaper
    +2
    i know in hollywood they own a building known as HGB (Hollywood Guaranty Building) and they do pick up and drop people off that work there. the sea thing i believe you are talking about is the sea org.

    last year in LA there was a press conference with a number of ex-sea org speaking out about there experiences while in, here it is, all over 2 hours of it http://www.youtube.com/user/S...

    but yeah, they will do a lot to push buttons and get you in punch them. i've had a guy in my face, insulting me the whole time, pushed me, and said i was harassing him.
  • VICTORIA reaper 2011/05/08 02:56:45
    VICTORIA
    Eeek. They ushered me into a room like an interrogation room- and wouldn't give me a glass of water.

    Then they were herding people onto a schoolbus- I said to heck with this- and just took off.
    It was pretty creepy.

    I also experienced some of their dianetic propaganda-

    L.Ron Hubbard was a really substandard writer any way.
    Pushing buttons is their talent, I think. Or trying to any way.

    You should ignore them as much as possible.
  • reaper VICTORIA 2011/05/08 03:06:31
    reaper
    +1
    so where you in before or was this just some auditing you were doing in one of there building? and yeah, they do make a lot of a propaganda.

    as for hubbards writings i've never read any of it so can't say if it's any good or not. but i can't care for it anyways so it doesn't matter.

    and umm, ignore them, no. got to hit them up some how, and the more they say to me the better. got to figure out the behavior and catch them where they are lying about something.
  • VICTORIA reaper 2011/05/08 03:15:07
    VICTORIA
    No, I guess it was some auditing. I wandered in.
    They explained the hierarchy of their weird pseudo-naval structure to me.
    I see, well- much good luck on your mission!
  • reaper VICTORIA 2011/05/09 23:28:40
    reaper
    +1
    say, by chance anyone send you any PM attacking me for this? just wondering, i wouldn't be surprised if anyone did.
  • VICTORIA reaper 2011/05/10 23:01:23
    VICTORIA
    Not that I know of- no.You have enemies on SH?
  • reaper VICTORIA 2011/05/10 23:14:47
    reaper
    +1
    scientologist on the site using it for PR reasons and damage control. just wasn't sure if they might have been PM people on here bogus crap about me
  • VICTORIA reaper 2011/05/11 05:51:02
    VICTORIA
    Not that I've seen- but it's possible.
    If ever I see any- I'll remember your name and find you.

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