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Should There Be a Limit to Yard Sales?

News 2012/04/13 13:00:00
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Lawmakers in South Greensburg, Pennsylvania, are trying to limit yard sale frequency so people can't turn their front lawn into a second-hand store. According to Borough Council President Clentin Martin, some residents have been "buying junk ... in these flea markets, bringing it home, putting it into their garage, and then calling it a 'garage sale.'" Neighbors aren't thrilled about the traffic.

The law that will be considered next month proposes to limit the frequency of residential yard sales. Martin explains, "[The limit] would be two consecutive days, and they couldn't run it all week. And they can't run it weekly. They can't run it monthly. Just two separate permits that would limit that. And it's relatively inexpensive. It’s $5 a permit." Does that sound fair, or should people be allowed to hold yard sales as often as they'd like?


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  • 4570GOVT Safury 2012/04/18 14:47:39
    4570GOVT
    BRAVO !
  • Jackie 2012/04/18 03:20:32
    Yes
    Jackie
    No one should be able to have perpetual yard sales. Just a few a year at any one address should be allowed. Any more than that is a nuisance to the neighborhood. What if everyone in the neighborhood decided to have them often? When customers start blocking fire plugs, driveways and mailboxes, it's time to draw the line.
  • Rebecca... Jackie 2012/04/21 18:38:08
    Rebecca Schneider
    When customers start blocking fire plugs, driveways and mailboxes, there are remedies for that: the police. It is against the law already to block those (well, maybe not the mailbox). If everyone in the neighborhood decided to have one, that is called a multi-house yard sale and are very successful! I know of plenty of towns in PA that not only allow that, but actively promote them. They draw in business to other businesses in the area AND allow people to get rid of their junk.
  • TheBorg 2012/04/18 02:59:07 (edited)
    Yes
    TheBorg
    +1
    What is the difference between a yard sale and a garbage dump? Nothing. I cannot believe that 73% of the people here believe neighbors have the right to lower your property value by turning their property into a junkyard. By this reasoning factories and any other types of businesses can set up shop right next door to residential neighborhoods regardless of zoning ordinances.
    neighborhoods zoning ordinances bet 73 police neighbors play music loud


    Wow, people on SodaHead are idiots.

    73 police neighbors play music loud wow people sodahead idiots
  • JakeJ277 TheBorg 2012/04/18 12:38:14
    JakeJ277
    +2
    Don't like neighbors being able to devalue your property? Don't live somewhere with neighbors. This would actually solve a couple of problems: non-socialist living environment in which the neighbors' decisions can affect your life financially in any way, discourages future building of centex/pulte/crackerbox subdivision building in everyone's backyards, decreases the human population density thereby mitigating all kinds of resource issues.

    Please don't make blanket statements about your fellow sodaheads. That just isn't cool, friend.
  • 4570GOVT JakeJ277 2012/04/18 14:51:14
    4570GOVT
    +1
    He " IS " a jerk , is he not ? He's like the Crabby Old Fart standing on his lawn and yelling at little kids . People like him make me sick .
  • JakeJ277 4570GOVT 2012/04/18 17:19:05
    JakeJ277
    +1
    Crabby old fart. haha. Too funny.
  • TheBorg JakeJ277 2012/04/19 03:25:30
    TheBorg
    So you don't believe in zoning ordinances? You believe that if a company wants to build a foundry or a neighbor wants to have a chicken coop or pig farm in the middle of a urban, residential neighborhood that they, both neighbor and company, should be allowed to? Ridiculous!

    By that line of thinking, your neighbors should be allowed to play their music as loud as they want at any time of the night since they are playing their music on their property.

    I'm sorry for speaking the truth but for you and anyone else to say there should not be zoning ordinances or laws is stupid. That is what this argument is all about, having laws and zoning ordinances.

    If I move to the country, and the farmer next door starts pig farming, I have no right to complain; the land is zoned for farming. If I move into a commercial district and the property owner next to me wants to sell crap in his front yard I have no right to complain because the property is zoned for it. HOWEVER, If I buy a plot of land in a residential neighborhood and my neighbor decides to break the law and start pig farming or open a store front (year round yard sale) in their front yard even though it was zoned for residential instead of farm or commercial use, then my neighbor is clearly in the wrong.

    MY fellow SodaHeads believe in...



    So you don't believe in zoning ordinances? You believe that if a company wants to build a foundry or a neighbor wants to have a chicken coop or pig farm in the middle of a urban, residential neighborhood that they, both neighbor and company, should be allowed to? Ridiculous!

    By that line of thinking, your neighbors should be allowed to play their music as loud as they want at any time of the night since they are playing their music on their property.

    I'm sorry for speaking the truth but for you and anyone else to say there should not be zoning ordinances or laws is stupid. That is what this argument is all about, having laws and zoning ordinances.

    If I move to the country, and the farmer next door starts pig farming, I have no right to complain; the land is zoned for farming. If I move into a commercial district and the property owner next to me wants to sell crap in his front yard I have no right to complain because the property is zoned for it. HOWEVER, If I buy a plot of land in a residential neighborhood and my neighbor decides to break the law and start pig farming or open a store front (year round yard sale) in their front yard even though it was zoned for residential instead of farm or commercial use, then my neighbor is clearly in the wrong.

    MY fellow SodaHeads believe in following the law, respecting local ordinances and changing them through legal means if they are not satisfactory. You and your group of Anarchists don't represent the majority of SodaHead people.

    So if I offended a group of lefty Anarchist zealots who would shoot people who want to enforce the law (see most popular post) and who believe there should not be laws, ordinances or that property should not be zoned then SFW?

    dick
    (more)
  • JakeJ277 TheBorg 2012/04/19 04:17:37
    JakeJ277
    Don't you think there is a large black line between excessive yard sale-ing and a chicken coop or a foundry?

    I think you need to check the definitions for the terms "zoning" and "neighborhood rules". Even if a neighborhood's HOA rules say one can't have a pig farm that doesn't stop the guy who lives behind their neighborhood on his lot from owning half a dozen pigs and chickens. His house may also still be residentially zoned. Trust me, the stink will carry right through the neighborhood boundary regardless of their rules. On top of that, I think there are also some seriously gray lines on what defines "farming". I'm pretty sure you can raise several animals of a barnyard nature on residential property so long as your not selling it and the animals are contained. This would also depend on which state you live in.

    Also, I don't ever remember saying that there should not be laws, zoning, etc. despite your linearly derived assumptions. My only point was that if someone has a problem with their neighbors, they have the freedom to move or have no neighbors at all. If they don't have the freedom to move, that's by their doing because the only thing stopping you is your own financial or social situation. Every freedom is, after all, earned. If you set yourself up to be financially aff...



    Don't you think there is a large black line between excessive yard sale-ing and a chicken coop or a foundry?

    I think you need to check the definitions for the terms "zoning" and "neighborhood rules". Even if a neighborhood's HOA rules say one can't have a pig farm that doesn't stop the guy who lives behind their neighborhood on his lot from owning half a dozen pigs and chickens. His house may also still be residentially zoned. Trust me, the stink will carry right through the neighborhood boundary regardless of their rules. On top of that, I think there are also some seriously gray lines on what defines "farming". I'm pretty sure you can raise several animals of a barnyard nature on residential property so long as your not selling it and the animals are contained. This would also depend on which state you live in.

    Also, I don't ever remember saying that there should not be laws, zoning, etc. despite your linearly derived assumptions. My only point was that if someone has a problem with their neighbors, they have the freedom to move or have no neighbors at all. If they don't have the freedom to move, that's by their doing because the only thing stopping you is your own financial or social situation. Every freedom is, after all, earned. If you set yourself up to be financially affected by the decisions of your neighbors, then you should be prepared to accept any eventuality of that arrangement.

    At least with home owner associations, the rules are determined by the people living in the neighborhoods to try to meet the needs of that community. This post is talking about having the goverment step in and make the rules from above. I really only disagree with this because typically when lawmakers issue rules or laws, they belong to the highest bidder and may not have the full picture. They're just trying to appease the loudest angriest mouth as fast as possible. This may not end up creating the best solution for all involved. Just the one or two guys yelling loudest and last.

    On a completely different note, what's up with the name calling and over stereotyping? I almost didn't waste my time with a response to what you wrote above because honestly, I can't see carrying on a productive debate with someone who resorts to childish name-calling when someone disagrees with them. I know people like you in my life and they spend a lot of time alone. Hopefully you're not yet in this situation.
    (more)
  • TheBorg JakeJ277 2012/04/19 06:32:14 (edited)
  • JakeJ277 TheBorg 2012/04/19 12:51:42
    JakeJ277
    I totally agree with your regarding the people being the government. This was the initial design intent when the Constitution was drafted. Unfortunately, when people rely on the government to solve their problems and continually ask them to provide from above, they give the power to the people in office to be a separate controlling entity. The people representing us at the highest levels of government only really have our best interest in mind when it benefits their pocketbooks.

    In no way did I argue that people shouldn't be allowed to get together and created their own zoning laws. In fact, I would only ever argue that laws should be handled by individual communities. This is how it was handled early on. Again though, as the population continues to increase it becomes harder and harder to coordinate these laws with the ever growing cesspool of humanity that pack into smaller and smaller areas.
  • TheBorg JakeJ277 2012/04/20 02:55:11
    TheBorg
    "The people representing us at the highest levels of government only really have our best interest in mind when it benefits their pocketbooks"

    I agree but the fault is not their's, the fault is ours for voting for them. If the majority of citizens want to vote for Republicans and Democrats who don't represent their best interest then that IS the will of the people.

    "People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard." ~ H.L. Mencken

    The same goes for zoning ordinances, it is the responsibility of the community to elect a representative to the local board, city council or federal legislator and if a guy gets elected that doesn't have your best interest in mind, bad mouthing the community/government or threatening to shoot people upholding the law (the will of the people) is unAmerican and Anarchist, and people who make those threats and bad mouth the community/government deserves to be ridiculed and shunned (i.e. calling him/them stupid).

    It sounds like you agree with me, that the community, which IS government, has the right to set zoning ordinances and laws any way they want and if the community decides that having rummage sales every day of the year in your front yard constitutes a business and is not allowed in a residential zone, that is perfect...

    "The people representing us at the highest levels of government only really have our best interest in mind when it benefits their pocketbooks"

    I agree but the fault is not their's, the fault is ours for voting for them. If the majority of citizens want to vote for Republicans and Democrats who don't represent their best interest then that IS the will of the people.

    "People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard." ~ H.L. Mencken

    The same goes for zoning ordinances, it is the responsibility of the community to elect a representative to the local board, city council or federal legislator and if a guy gets elected that doesn't have your best interest in mind, bad mouthing the community/government or threatening to shoot people upholding the law (the will of the people) is unAmerican and Anarchist, and people who make those threats and bad mouth the community/government deserves to be ridiculed and shunned (i.e. calling him/them stupid).

    It sounds like you agree with me, that the community, which IS government, has the right to set zoning ordinances and laws any way they want and if the community decides that having rummage sales every day of the year in your front yard constitutes a business and is not allowed in a residential zone, that is perfectly within their right and that anyone who thinks they are above the law, that laws don't apply to them or threaten violence against the community because they do not like the law are in the wrong and deserve to be ridiculed and called out for their unAmerican, Anarchist behavior.

    Am I correct that you agree with that sentiment?!?!?
    (more)
  • JakeJ277 TheBorg 2012/04/20 12:21:38
    JakeJ277
    I do agree with this sentiment. If the community gets together or elects a representative to create laws that they agree to, then they should definitely have to follow them or be corrected, removed, ridiculed, etc. Whatever it takes.

    The only point I had been trying to make is that communication between state level laws and individual neighborhoods isn't very good so even if they made a state law about it, it would be hard to enforce or maybe even get passed in the first place. Especially considering there would be no monetary benefit for whoever represented this issue.

    I also totally agree that this is our fault. Take the upcoming election for example. We're stuck with only three (but really just two) potential options for president and we can't see more options because a lot of capable excellent leaders don't have millions and millions in backers to help them get to the ballot. We allowed this system to fall into the place its in.

    I've enjoyed hashing this out with you. Have a good Friday.
  • 4570GOVT TheBorg 2012/04/18 14:48:38
    4570GOVT
    +1
    Could it be that you ARE ONE ?
  • TheBorg 4570GOVT 2012/04/19 03:44:33
  • Dagon TheBorg 2012/04/18 14:56:25
  • TheBorg Dagon 2012/04/19 03:44:46
  • Dagon TheBorg 2012/04/19 03:52:20
  • neecie TheBorg 2012/04/19 03:01:20
    neecie
    You must be a liberal. You are certainly over-reacting and making a mountain out of a mole hill. We are not talking about junk yards here, just simple yard sales. Just like the liberals, you are not taking this in moderation, but swinging it toooo far to the left.
  • TheBorg neecie 2012/04/19 03:32:53
  • Maria Nambo Palmeno 2012/04/18 02:42:24
    No
    Maria Nambo Palmeno
    +3
    well.... we got to get rid of our junk some how! and if we through it away in the trash the governtment says we're polluting. :L
  • mateo 2012/04/18 02:36:01 (edited)
  • 4570GOVT mateo 2012/04/18 14:52:07
    4570GOVT
    +1
    BRAVO ! .................. Well Said .
  • redneck 2012/04/18 00:08:58
    No
    redneck
    +3
    What is this Russia ????
  • mateo redneck 2012/04/18 02:33:24
    mateo
    +1
    No Russians don't do that kind of stuff. Obamanation NUFF SAID!
  • HypothesizeIt 2012/04/17 23:58:21
    No
    HypothesizeIt
    +1
    Don't like it? Move.
  • Mercenary2728 2012/04/17 23:03:07 (edited)
    No
    Mercenary2728
    Obama You Rock? 卐
  • Mike Mercena... 2012/04/18 22:26:58
    Mike
    glad to see your a racist , now we know who nthe low brow here is
  • Mercena... Mike 2012/04/18 22:42:29
    Mercenary2728
    Fine Happy Im Not Trying To be Racist Anymore
  • Death On Two Legs 2012/04/17 21:59:59
    No
    Death On Two Legs
    +2
    So there's a limit as to what you can do in your own yard now?
  • FanOreilly 2012/04/17 21:16:05
    Yes
    FanOreilly
    +1
    Only at the local and state levels, not federal.
  • Margaret Jacobson 2012/04/17 20:56:45
    No
    Margaret Jacobson
    +2
    who knows what kind of deals you can find!!! We have enough "RULES AND GOVERNMENT GRABBING AT US FOR PERMITS FOR FISHING, GUNS, MARRIAGE, DIVORCE ETC....................LET IT BE!!! NO MORE!!!
  • ««Gingey, the Master Debate... 2012/04/17 19:21:33
    No
    ««Gingey, the Master Debater of Þ|-|Дэ†»»
    +2
    Yard sales are awesome. They can suck it.
  • 4570GOVT ««Ginge... 2012/04/18 14:53:11
    4570GOVT
    +1
    I Agree !
  • Kamen 2012/04/17 17:35:12
    No
    Kamen
    +2
    It's private property. Let them do what they want with it so long as they're not messing up their neighbors' yards.
  • amoonsinger 2012/04/17 17:01:45
    No
    amoonsinger
    +4
    One more way to limit what Americans can do on their own property and another tax to boot. States spend way to much and with taxpayers saying no to higher taxes the states have to get creative on how to steal from people.
  • themadhare ~IJM 2012/04/17 16:38:19
    Yes
    themadhare ~IJM
    there already are laws against operating a business in a residential area.
  • Foxhoun... themadh... 2012/04/17 17:18:28
    Foxhound BN0
    +2
    What about free enterprise? What about being the king of your castle? What about the pursuit of happiness and all of these other rights?
  • themadh... Foxhoun... 2012/04/17 17:29:56
    themadhare ~IJM
    It's a house, not a castle. There are zoning laws that apply. If you want to start a second hand store, rent a storefront; a front yard is not a permanent store.
  • Foxhoun... themadh... 2012/04/17 18:35:29
    Foxhound BN0
    +2
    oh I know how the yard nazis work. don't want anything messing up their tidy little utopia of matching houses on matching streets. conformists suck.

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