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Should the U.S. Have Universal Healthcare?

(▪‿▪)DoctorWhoGuru(▪‿▪) 2012/06/21 05:34:06
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A new study has calculated that more than 26,000 Americans died prematurely in 2010 as a direct result of not having health insurance. The study, published on Wednesday by health care advocacy group Families USA, has raised old questions about whether health insurance coverage has any bearing on a person's odds of living longer.

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  • Informed Voter 2012/06/21 23:28:33
    No
    Informed Voter
    +11
    And the argument was made quite plain...by a Doctor who should know, Dr. C.L. Gray, MD.
    Because it's more than just "healthcare" that's at stake.

    The Battle for America’s Soul
    By C.L. Gray, MD

    A review and commentary


    If one were tempted to write a book that accurately captured the tug of war our country is currently undergoing, they would find that someone has already done their work for them.

    Framed in the current healthcare debate, Dr. Gray pits the great thinkers against each other in a duel of world views that is playing out in our society even today. From Hippocrates and Plato to Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Friedrich Nietzsche, all the important titans of philosophical thought are represented. And at the very heart of their debate lay a central issue; who has the power to make decisions that affect our lives, the individual or the state?

    By defining what shaped Hippocrates’ and Plato’s world views in the field of healthcare, Dr. Gray lays out the case that this is a very old argument taken into the present day and that ultimate authority for our world view depends greatly on the our foundation of truth. Whether it be sacred or secular in origin, both make their cases clear; where Hippocratic-thinkers place a premium on human life—at both ends of the life cycle—the P...

















    And the argument was made quite plain...by a Doctor who should know, Dr. C.L. Gray, MD.
    Because it's more than just "healthcare" that's at stake.

    The Battle for America’s Soul
    By C.L. Gray, MD

    A review and commentary


    If one were tempted to write a book that accurately captured the tug of war our country is currently undergoing, they would find that someone has already done their work for them.

    Framed in the current healthcare debate, Dr. Gray pits the great thinkers against each other in a duel of world views that is playing out in our society even today. From Hippocrates and Plato to Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Friedrich Nietzsche, all the important titans of philosophical thought are represented. And at the very heart of their debate lay a central issue; who has the power to make decisions that affect our lives, the individual or the state?

    By defining what shaped Hippocrates’ and Plato’s world views in the field of healthcare, Dr. Gray lays out the case that this is a very old argument taken into the present day and that ultimate authority for our world view depends greatly on the our foundation of truth. Whether it be sacred or secular in origin, both make their cases clear; where Hippocratic-thinkers place a premium on human life—at both ends of the life cycle—the Platonian-thinkers consider life at the earliest and latest stages as a burden to the state. To make this an easier decision for the state, the state simply does away with the concept of God. This is a recurring theme throughout the book.

    Each chapter’s presentation is thoroughly researched, painstakingly discussed and individually end-noted, yet with straightforward writing that makes for an enjoyable yet thought-provoking read.

    Before you take up the banner on behalf of a particular side, it may be instructive to understand the genesis from which world view you are arguing, Hippocrates or Plato?

    The world view of “Hippocrates – 1) Accepted the concept of a fixed Truth, 2) believed in the intrinsic value of human life, 3) thought medicine should serve (the) well being of the patient, 4) rejected infanticide and euthanasia, 5) the common man could appeal to a higher moral code.

    The world view of “Plato – 1) Rejected the concept of a fixed Truth, 2) believed the philosopher king should determine the value of human life, 3) thought medicine should serve (the) welfare of the State, 4) accepted infanticide and euthanasia, 5) The State could do as it wished.”

    These arguments continue to play out on the societal stage today. The question is, which one stands more closely with the founding principles of freedom and which one stands for the omniscience of the State?

    “Government benevolence under socialism sounds so noble when first introduced. The ruling elite use sweet words of compassion to win the public’s trust, even as they secure power for themselves. However, contempt for the common man lies underneath this apparent concern.”

    C. L. Gray, MD, The Battle for America’s Soul, (Hickory, NC: Eventide Publishing, 2011), p. 63.
    C. L. Gray, MD, The Battle for America’s Soul, (Hickory, NC: Eventide Publishing, 2011), p. 156.


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Opinions

  • BrianD3 Anonymo... 2012/06/21 14:16:03
    BrianD3
    you are right about the prisons, we should:



    1) decriminalize pot

    2) make more crimes capital crimes and expedite the death penalty process
  • Anonymo... BrianD3 2012/06/21 16:10:27
    Anonymouse BN-0 ~bibbityboo~
    +1
    I think prison should only be used for reform, as a deterrent and for the safety of society. We need to stop putting everyone that commits the most minor crimes into prison, and use alternative punishments, rehabilitation or psychiatric help. Prison should be for unrepentant criminals who need to be terrified into never committing a crime again and psychos who can never be allowed into society again. Also, the worst criminals, like mass murderers, etc., should have the choice of voluntary euthanasia or staying in prison until they die. Prison should be a complete hell hole. There should be bread and water, terrible conditions, hard labour, and various unpleasant things in there, and we should keep them in there until they can learn to behave, with indeterminate sentences. It should only be used for people who commit crimes and hurt people for fun, not because they have mental problems, if they had a good reason for it, if they had to through force or certain circumstances, or if it was through any type if drug use - they need to be rehabilitated.
  • JCD aka... BrianD3 2012/06/21 22:48:05
    JCD aka "biz"
    You would really hate to have to explain why you spend, and waste, so much money on health care.
  • Superman Lady Wh... 2012/06/21 14:48:56
    Superman
    +1
    So by that logic the government should force other health choices on us under the guise of getting and keeping us healthy? They should be allowed to decide what we eat, how much, what we do in our recreational time?

    Sounds to authoritarian for me. I prefer liberty to make my own choices and live with the consequences.
  • Wolf 2012/06/21 08:58:50
    No
    Wolf
    +8
    Everyone has a right to spend their earnings on what they deem important and suffer the consequences of their decisions...that builds a strong society and stops this Communism ...responsibility and accountability is key to a strong and vibrant nation...look at the US and EU today and see the sea of debt growing and about to implode these nations...evolution is a strong teacher and is the core of life on this Planet...
  • BrianD3 Wolf 2012/06/21 11:39:32
    BrianD3
    +3
    I agree
  • JCD aka... Wolf 2012/06/21 13:23:51
    JCD aka "biz"
    +1
    Universal health care in Europe, Canada, Australia etc. is supported by the Social Democrats AND by the Conservatives.
  • BrianD3 JCD aka... 2012/06/21 13:33:20
    BrianD3
    +1
    yea, their conservatives are not the same as OUR conservatives.....for someone who acts like they know a lot, you sure seem to be striking out a lot
  • aneed2know 2012/06/21 08:51:26
    Yes
    aneed2know
    +5
    yes we should and we should take the profit motive out of healthcare insurance.
  • BrianD3 aneed2know 2012/06/21 11:40:00
    BrianD3
    +4
    what is the point in that?
  • aneed2know BrianD3 2012/06/21 11:42:17
    aneed2know
    +2
    the point is a persons health should not be traded on the stock market and neither should our justice system.
  • BrianD3 aneed2know 2012/06/21 11:44:10
    BrianD3
    +5
    no one should be compelled to pay for something that they do not wish to buy
  • aneed2know BrianD3 2012/06/26 05:01:14
    aneed2know
    and no other person should be held liable for those who choose not to pay. you do realize that when a person goes to the ER or Hospital and they have no health insurance that you and I must pay for them also?
  • Mark P. aneed2know 2012/06/21 15:09:49
    Mark P.
    No profit, no further research to develop better equipment and treatment.
  • aneed2know Mark P. 2012/06/26 05:02:39
    aneed2know
    hmmm let me see, are we talking about health insurance or research and development. because insurance companies dont pay for research and development. but you know all this right?
  • Mark P. aneed2know 2012/06/26 10:37:36 (edited)
    Mark P.
    You understand what investment is right? When a company shows profit, it has money to invest in better medication, equipment and procedures to treat the sick and injured. I liberals have a math deficiency, but that what took us from X-rays to ct scans. Those insurance payments are part of that.
  • kitkat42 2012/06/21 08:24:32
    Yes
    kitkat42
  • kaitlynb7 2012/06/21 08:16:26
    Yes
    kaitlynb7
    +3
    I live in austraila and healthcare is a reqiremet.
  • BrianD3 kaitlynb7 2012/06/21 11:40:24
    BrianD3
    +3
    so stay there, why should we seek to copy you
  • littlebuffalo55TBA 2012/06/21 07:47:25 (edited)
    Yes
    littlebuffalo55TBA
    +1
    But the plan put in place is actually not going to do that! And as of today Bernanke predicts the year 2012 will end with unemployment over 8%!



    The stimulus has failed!



    Japan has the best system all their citizens are covered! The employer pays 4% and the employee 4 1/2%. They can do this because they employ people in their private sector that make things! The government sets a reasonable cost on services and depending on what industry you have many choices of care which is provided by private companies. Their lifespan is 5 year more than ours! They export more than they import and the cost of their care for everyone is less than 10% of their GDP.



    Our care that does not cover everyone as of yet is over 15% of GDP and climbing!



    You really have to ask yourself what's wrong with this picture?
  • Cochise littleb... 2012/06/21 11:35:12
    Cochise
    +1
    STOP saying, the Stimulus failed. The stimulus kept us from going into a darn right depression.
  • BrianD3 Cochise 2012/06/21 11:40:49
    BrianD3
    +4
    yes keep on telling yourself that......
  • Of Thee... Cochise 2012/06/21 11:45:13
    Of Thee I Sing...
    +4
    The stimulus did fail !
  • littleb... Cochise 2012/06/21 13:31:16
    littlebuffalo55TBA
    Right! Yeah sure you betcha! Try taking a look at the effect the current Administration and Congress have had on Derivatives. In case you have not heard they are up 20% over what they were in 08!

    How about you stop defending failed policies in Washington no matter which side?
  • ģhøṡτ øώl Cochise 2012/06/21 13:51:46
    ģhøṡτ øώl
    Ha ha. Yeah right. You don't know what you're talking about. Our debt need I remind you, has gone up 5 TRILLION DOLLARS. That's TWELVE ZEROS. We cannot even comprehend that amount of money. You couldn't even store it somewhere if it was cash. All the stimulus did was float us a little further and guarantee a spike in inflation. You can't just print empty cash with NOTHING TO BACK IT UP and expect it to have any kind of positive effect. And the BILLIONS of dollars wasted on all of those "GREEN" programs/companies. Yeah, ALL of those companies, Solyndra, etc have reported incredible losses and are going bankrupt. I wonder where all that money went? Oh well. No accountability. All your precious stimulus did was prolong the inevitable. It's sad to watch all these people get led in Marxism and you don't even know it. You probably don't even know what that means or care.
  • Mark P. Cochise 2012/06/21 15:11:35
    Mark P.
    Can you prove it. It didn't stop anything because it was a payoff to Obama supporters.
  • Gloria 2012/06/21 07:20:09
    Yes
    Gloria
    +3
    If the US doesn't want universal health care then send trucks through the streets daily to pick up the dead.
  • BrianD3 Gloria 2012/06/21 11:41:12
    BrianD3
    +4
    let the people pay for it themselves
  • Lord Claremorris 2012/06/21 06:33:05
    Yes
    Lord Claremorris
    +6
    The Europeans can afford it, hell even Russia can afford it. We're the richest country in the world by far in terms of GDP, and we're pretty high up in per capita (much higher than Russia), so there is absolutely no reason why we cannot afford it.
  • BrianD3 Lord Cl... 2012/06/21 11:41:43
    BrianD3
    +4
    Greece, Spain and other countries clearly demonstrate that they cannot afford to pay for it
  • Teresa BrianD3 2012/06/21 15:29:16
    Teresa
    Let's be serius. I'm Spanish, my taxes, and all workes taxes, same for our emplyers's are paying the universal health care.
    Of course, with current economy situation, less workers, less taxes, so problems to support all this.
    Anyway, this is not our mayor problem. Our economy was based in construction and in turism, and with the crises, both colapsed, an also because our bank bought another countries debth (UE's for example), and that brought us down.
    We also have a big problem of medical turist, people who can not afford medical treatment in their countries and come to our, as in an emergency, doctors are not allowed to say not.
  • Lord Cl... BrianD3 2012/06/21 16:03:01
    Lord Claremorris
    France? Russia? Germany? Sweden? Norway? Switzerland? Let's just pick examples that support your side.
  • JCD aka... Lord Cl... 2012/06/21 13:09:47
    JCD aka "biz"
    +1
    And countries with universal health care spend a lot less on health care, 6-11% of GDP, vs. 17% in America.

    Why do American people want to WASTE so much money?
  • RED DAWN JCD aka... 2012/06/21 13:45:59
    RED DAWN
    Americans want to live.You say you will have better health and live longer by spending less.
  • rootbeer29 2012/06/21 06:30:08
    No
    rootbeer29
    +7
    Not a good idea on so many levels.
  • (▪‿▪)Do... rootbeer29 2012/06/21 06:32:12
  • Lady Wh... (▪‿▪)Do... 2012/06/21 10:01:54
    Lady Whitewolf
    +1
    agreed
  • Of Thee... (▪‿▪)Do... 2012/06/21 11:46:24
    Of Thee I Sing...
    +3
    Did you notice that he did NOT get re-elected?....... He's an idiot.
  • aneed2know rootbeer29 2012/06/21 08:51:58
  • Cochise rootbeer29 2012/06/21 11:35:45
    Cochise
    +1
    Explain one............

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