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Should the U.S. Have Universal Healthcare?

(▪‿▪)DoctorWhoGuru(▪‿▪) 2012/06/21 05:34:06
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A new study has calculated that more than 26,000 Americans died prematurely in 2010 as a direct result of not having health insurance. The study, published on Wednesday by health care advocacy group Families USA, has raised old questions about whether health insurance coverage has any bearing on a person's odds of living longer.

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  • Informed Voter 2012/06/21 23:28:33
    No
    Informed Voter
    +11
    And the argument was made quite plain...by a Doctor who should know, Dr. C.L. Gray, MD.
    Because it's more than just "healthcare" that's at stake.

    The Battle for America’s Soul
    By C.L. Gray, MD

    A review and commentary


    If one were tempted to write a book that accurately captured the tug of war our country is currently undergoing, they would find that someone has already done their work for them.

    Framed in the current healthcare debate, Dr. Gray pits the great thinkers against each other in a duel of world views that is playing out in our society even today. From Hippocrates and Plato to Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Friedrich Nietzsche, all the important titans of philosophical thought are represented. And at the very heart of their debate lay a central issue; who has the power to make decisions that affect our lives, the individual or the state?

    By defining what shaped Hippocrates’ and Plato’s world views in the field of healthcare, Dr. Gray lays out the case that this is a very old argument taken into the present day and that ultimate authority for our world view depends greatly on the our foundation of truth. Whether it be sacred or secular in origin, both make their cases clear; where Hippocratic-thinkers place a premium on human life—at both ends of the life cycle—the P...

















    And the argument was made quite plain...by a Doctor who should know, Dr. C.L. Gray, MD.
    Because it's more than just "healthcare" that's at stake.

    The Battle for America’s Soul
    By C.L. Gray, MD

    A review and commentary


    If one were tempted to write a book that accurately captured the tug of war our country is currently undergoing, they would find that someone has already done their work for them.

    Framed in the current healthcare debate, Dr. Gray pits the great thinkers against each other in a duel of world views that is playing out in our society even today. From Hippocrates and Plato to Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Friedrich Nietzsche, all the important titans of philosophical thought are represented. And at the very heart of their debate lay a central issue; who has the power to make decisions that affect our lives, the individual or the state?

    By defining what shaped Hippocrates’ and Plato’s world views in the field of healthcare, Dr. Gray lays out the case that this is a very old argument taken into the present day and that ultimate authority for our world view depends greatly on the our foundation of truth. Whether it be sacred or secular in origin, both make their cases clear; where Hippocratic-thinkers place a premium on human life—at both ends of the life cycle—the Platonian-thinkers consider life at the earliest and latest stages as a burden to the state. To make this an easier decision for the state, the state simply does away with the concept of God. This is a recurring theme throughout the book.

    Each chapter’s presentation is thoroughly researched, painstakingly discussed and individually end-noted, yet with straightforward writing that makes for an enjoyable yet thought-provoking read.

    Before you take up the banner on behalf of a particular side, it may be instructive to understand the genesis from which world view you are arguing, Hippocrates or Plato?

    The world view of “Hippocrates – 1) Accepted the concept of a fixed Truth, 2) believed in the intrinsic value of human life, 3) thought medicine should serve (the) well being of the patient, 4) rejected infanticide and euthanasia, 5) the common man could appeal to a higher moral code.

    The world view of “Plato – 1) Rejected the concept of a fixed Truth, 2) believed the philosopher king should determine the value of human life, 3) thought medicine should serve (the) welfare of the State, 4) accepted infanticide and euthanasia, 5) The State could do as it wished.”

    These arguments continue to play out on the societal stage today. The question is, which one stands more closely with the founding principles of freedom and which one stands for the omniscience of the State?

    “Government benevolence under socialism sounds so noble when first introduced. The ruling elite use sweet words of compassion to win the public’s trust, even as they secure power for themselves. However, contempt for the common man lies underneath this apparent concern.”

    C. L. Gray, MD, The Battle for America’s Soul, (Hickory, NC: Eventide Publishing, 2011), p. 63.
    C. L. Gray, MD, The Battle for America’s Soul, (Hickory, NC: Eventide Publishing, 2011), p. 156.


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Opinions

  • JCD aka... Reichstolz 2012/06/21 23:16:38
    JCD aka "biz"
    The story of the American "health" insurance mafia is clearly one of unlimited "success".
  • Reichstolz JCD aka... 2012/06/21 23:18:04
    Reichstolz
    +2
    I see no dignitaries in the world traveling to the single payer government run systems when they need the best care in the world.
  • JCD aka... Reichstolz 2012/06/21 23:27:11
    JCD aka "biz"
    America has an excellent health care system - for the "dignitaries".
  • Reichstolz JCD aka... 2012/06/21 23:40:30
    Reichstolz
    +1
    It is an individual merit based society, you get out of it what you put in. If you put nothing in, you deserve nothing out.
  • JCD aka... Reichstolz 2012/06/22 15:01:47
    JCD aka "biz"
    Conflicting philosophies.
  • Reichstolz JCD aka... 2012/06/23 16:03:14
    Reichstolz
    Nothing conflicting, our nation was never designed to reward sloth.
  • JCD aka... Reichstolz 2012/06/23 21:34:49
    JCD aka "biz"
    BTW, do you prefer Romneycare, or Rafalcacare?
  • skroehr 2012/06/21 17:07:48
    No
    skroehr
    +1
    Another Yes/No Question where I'm in the middle somewhere. I think the human mind is capable of more subtle an complex ideas. I'd like to see health care insurance monopolies go away. You should be able to buy health insurance from any company in any State. This would create a vigorous competetive market for health care insurers, and the price would be affordable. I don't believe that anyone should be denied health insurance. I'm okay with the provision of kids staying on until 26, (if they're going to college, or actively seeking employment). Okay, so you do these three things. Interstate sales, no turn downs, encouragement of self contained HMO's which are national (Kaiser Permanente model).\
    Then, here's where the Federal Government comes in. They would have an option for Government PRIMARY CARE, Treatment, or referral. The feds can set up all there primary care clinics for colds, ear infections, first aid, etc. to keep the uninsured out of the hospital emergency rooms for these things. Then, if it turns out that the person needs more than the Fed primary care offering, there would also be the Public Health Hospital, which would be Federal as well. This actually used to exist. There was the Public Health Service, and they had their own hospitals and specialist...
    Another Yes/No Question where I'm in the middle somewhere. I think the human mind is capable of more subtle an complex ideas. I'd like to see health care insurance monopolies go away. You should be able to buy health insurance from any company in any State. This would create a vigorous competetive market for health care insurers, and the price would be affordable. I don't believe that anyone should be denied health insurance. I'm okay with the provision of kids staying on until 26, (if they're going to college, or actively seeking employment). Okay, so you do these three things. Interstate sales, no turn downs, encouragement of self contained HMO's which are national (Kaiser Permanente model).\
    Then, here's where the Federal Government comes in. They would have an option for Government PRIMARY CARE, Treatment, or referral. The feds can set up all there primary care clinics for colds, ear infections, first aid, etc. to keep the uninsured out of the hospital emergency rooms for these things. Then, if it turns out that the person needs more than the Fed primary care offering, there would also be the Public Health Hospital, which would be Federal as well. This actually used to exist. There was the Public Health Service, and they had their own hospitals and specialist. I was treated in one once. I'm not sure what happened to them. The thing is, if you were uninsured, you wouldn't even go to the public hospital until coming through the local primary care clinic. The uninsured would get what they need on an as needed basis. No one would be simply left hanging. The insured path would be better, so there would still be incentive for having a job, and paying for your insurance, without it being a "mandate", and there IS Fed care available if that is the only way. So, Federal care - yes (as described), Private care - yes. Doesn't have to be one or the other, and leaves me with neither a yes or a no for this question.
    (more)
  • J skroehr 2012/06/21 18:28:02
    J
    +1
    I think that letting the states and districts set up their own health care systems would be much better than setting up a national system. ONE system takes away competition and that is the only way things remain well or improve.
  • skroehr J 2012/06/21 18:30:33
    skroehr
    Yes. Of course. Lowest level of Government. Good point.
  • kmay 2012/06/21 16:23:37
    No
    kmay
    +5
    HC is a choice!!!

    UHC does not assure 'quality' care.
  • Charles E kmay 2012/06/21 18:21:30
    Charles E
    +1
    UHC assures low quality care for everyone who can get it. If the doctor has not seen you by 5PM come back tomorrow. Or you can pick the red pill or the blue pill.
  • Paige Charles E 2012/06/21 18:35:17
    Paige
    Yes maybe people would have to wait for non emergencies but if you already have insurance thru your job then you can keep it. Government run health care would be for people who could not afford health care.
  • Charles E Paige 2012/06/21 18:46:16
    Charles E
    +1
    "... if you already have insurance thru your job then you can keep it."
    BS. Obama mandates increased the cost and I now have no insurance.

    How do I get this wonderful, free health care? Oh Yea. Wait till 2014.
  • JCD aka... kmay 2012/06/21 23:19:18
    JCD aka "biz"
    If you are correct, how do you explain the fact that countries with universal health care not only spend far LESS on health care, but also often have better vital statistics?
  • kmay JCD aka... 2012/06/22 11:26:00
    kmay
    What factors are included in you vital stats? Which countries?
  • JCD aka... kmay 2012/06/22 15:20:04
    JCD aka "biz"
    Life expectancy is one, most Western countries have higher life expectancies than the US. People live an average two years older in Australia, Canada, Sweden, France etc.
  • kmay JCD aka... 2012/06/22 18:13:26
    kmay
    2 years is negligible.

    “Fact No. 1: Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.
    [1] Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.

    Fact No. 2: Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.
    [2] Breast cancer mortality is 9 percent higher, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher and colon cancer mortality among men is about 10 percent higher than in the United States.”

    http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649

    Percentage of patients diagnosed with diabetes who received treatment within six months:
    U.S. 93%
    England 15%
    Canada 43%

    Percentage of seniors needing hip replacement who received it within six months:
    U.S. 90%
    England 15%
    Canada 43%

    Percentage referred to a medical specialist who see one within one month:
    U.S. 77%
    England 40%
    Canada 43%

    Number of MRI scanners (a prime diagnostic tool) per million people:
    U.S. 71
    England 14
    Canada 18

    Percentage of seniors (65+), with low income, who say they are in “excellent health”:
    U.S. 12%
    England 2%
    Canada 6%
  • Sparky 2012/06/21 16:18:29 (edited)
  • JCD aka... Sparky 2012/06/21 23:20:33
    JCD aka "biz"
    Your "health" insurance mafia is clearly "emptying" the pockets of American people.
  • Sparky JCD aka... 2012/06/25 12:45:30
  • DM Twin 2012/06/21 15:52:11
  • JCD aka... DM Twin 2012/06/21 23:21:26
    JCD aka "biz"
    Health care IS a right.

    Probably not in Somalia, though.
  • Sparky JCD aka... 2012/06/25 12:45:54
  • Glfer65 2012/06/21 15:46:08
    Yes
    Glfer65
    +2
    We are the only industrialized nation that has no universal health care system that works to help people take better care for themselves. And we are the only nation who fails to make a life more important than the dollar.

    For every dollar the health industry makes more people die needlessly simply because they do not care. No other country has the perfect system yet they continue to keep a system in place that takes care of everyone regardless of their income.

    We have people who make good money say "I will not take care of people on my own dime!" Fine put an affordable system in place that really is affordable and has no strings attached like a $2,000.00 deductible before any coverage begins.

    With over 30 million people with no insurance and 26,000 dying needlessly each year the shear stupidity that fail to help our own is the worst of the worst in this country. To let a fellow man die on the street because you don't want to pay the tax that EVERYONE would have to if they have a job or income is disgusting!
  • JCD aka... Glfer65 2012/06/21 23:23:44
    JCD aka "biz"
    And America spends 17% of its GDP on health care, vs. 6-11% in all other Western countries which have universal health care.
  • Glfer65 JCD aka... 2012/06/21 23:49:21
    Glfer65
    +1
    Amazing and we hear all this crap about the sky is going to fall and all that.
  • TruBluTopaz 2012/06/21 15:29:08
    No
    TruBluTopaz
    +3
    By the administration's own numbers the affordable healthcare act will not provide services for many of the hardcore homeless and unemployed. And I am not sure that we should have to pay for repeated stints in rehab for people that don't want to save themselves. If you really wanted to save people, you would roll back the ADA that allows the seriously mentally ill to wander around threatening others, becoming victims and becoming homeless. A large segment of the homeless community are people with serious mental health issues. They get their meds and sell them or trade them for other drugs like cheap booze. This is why I do not give money directly to the homeless, but to organizations that help them move out of homelessness. Allowing what you define as universal health will simply perpetuate a growing issue in our communities.
  • Rebel Yell 2012/06/21 15:23:20
    Yes
    Rebel Yell
    +2
    We have health care now, and if you have a few million lying around, you can receive that care. For the remainder of the population , the big insurers decide who lives and dies. That is the policy now in place that many people seem to think works just fine.

    I have "Cadillac" insurance and I also have a few coins in the bank. We live fairly comfortably. But I know that if I or a family member suddenly needed critical care, I would be wiped out in a heart beat . That is a very real possibility. No one is immune to an accident or to a sudden illness. It happens.
  • Willie 2012/06/21 15:20:04
    Yes
    Willie
    +1
    Single payer, non-profit is the only way to go.
  • Reichstolz Willie 2012/06/21 17:49:05
    Reichstolz
    +1
    Please tell me when the last time a head of state throughout the world has traveled to a single payer system to receive the best care.
  • Charles E Reichstolz 2012/06/21 18:27:15
    Charles E
    +1
    That would be Hugo Chavez, the communist the dictator of Venezula going to communist Cuba to get care. Wait , you said "the best". Forget about it.
  • Willie Reichstolz 2012/06/22 02:02:26
    Willie
    +1
    I'm far less concerned about the care received by heads of foreign states than I am with that of impoverished Americans.
  • Reichstolz Willie 2012/06/22 05:49:34
    Reichstolz
    If you cannot afford it you do not need it. Welcome to America.
  • Willie Reichstolz 2012/06/22 06:05:25
    Willie
    +1
    So if a person who doesn't have the means to buy health insurance develops a curable form of cancer, we just let them die?
  • Reichstolz Willie 2012/06/22 13:28:11
    Reichstolz
    Yes, or they should seek some form of private charity to assist them with their ailments.
  • Sparky Willie 2012/06/25 12:46:35
  • Superman 2012/06/21 15:09:32
    No
    Superman
    +2
    Do you realize that is .0083 percent of the US population? Thats actually an astoundingly low statistic.

    Unlike all other nations of the world, the US model is built around the idea of individual and state liberty. Individuals retain the freedom to make their own life choices and live with the consequences of those actions. At times that method will have negative results. People will make bad choices. They will eat poorly, expose themselves to bad things, be lazy, purchase/fail to purchase things they need in favor of things they want. And those outcomes will be sad.

    But, its not governments job to play mom and dad. Thats not what Americans want. We want our liberty, to make our choices.
  • Teresa 2012/06/21 15:09:15
    Yes
    Teresa
    +1
    We have. One of the only things I don't complain paying taxes for
  • santa6642 2012/06/21 14:58:15
    No
    santa6642
    +4
    you want it buy it, it is not a right.

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