Should Naturalization Hold A "Second Class Citizenship"?

"And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 'The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God."

Leviticus 19:33-34

Unless you are a Native American... we were ALL immigrants somewhere along the road.

Illegal aliens are natural born citizens in their home country. If I rent a condo on the beach in the Baja, I am a Second Class Citizen of Mexico and can't work at their Post Office.

America was meant to be a meritocracy. To convey any advantage merely based on birth flies against everything we are supposed to value, something a lot of immigrants understand better anyway. It'd go the other way. Give the natives a certain amount of time to justify they citizenship they have.

something you don't know....
we use a lower case "c" for a citizen of the federal government and an upper case "C" to denote a Citizen of a state of the Union.] It should be noted that "citizens of the United States" are not The People who created the states, then by state action, created the federal government. These "federal citizens" are not "parties to the Constitution" and therefore did not have legal claim to the same rights, privileges, and immunities that state Citizens did.
Rights of one class of Citizen are thoroughly different from the "rights" (actually Congressionally granted privileges) of the other class of citizen.

I'm not a "naturalized immigrant." I'm a naturalized CITIZEN.

My parents, older brother, and I emigrated, LEGALLY, from So. Korea to the U.S. when I was three years old.

My parents ran a successful small business. My older brother joined ROTC in college and then served as a USMC officer. I enlisted in the Coast Guard after high school and did that for a few years before going to college. My younger brother, the only one of the five of us born in the States, was in the Air Force.

So, yeah, I'd say that puts us somewhere above the "second class citizen" category.

I don't want anyone to equate me and my family, from an immigration point of view, with people who cross into the U.S. (and stay there) ILLEGALLY.

If you become a naturalized citizen of the U.S. after going through the proper legal channels, then you are just as much of a citizen as a "native born" one. About the only thing you can't do is become president, but who the hell would want that job anyway?

however illegal immigrants have no rights (unless asylum seekers)...

Illegal aliens are not second class citizens, they are not citizens at all.

and a Naturalized Immigrant?

A naturalized immigrant is a citizen, there are no second class citizens.

Who are you trying to argue against here?

There are, as a matter of practice, different classes of citizenship so how can you say for a fact there are no second class citizens?

U.S. citizens living outside the United States are “second class” citizens of the United States. U.S. citizens living outside the United States are also “second class” citizens in their country of residence. (This is the result of U.S. government policy toward their expats. Therefore, U.S. citizens living outside the United States are “second class” citizens the world over.

If "second class citizen" is a legal status, please let me know where I may find documentation supporting that claim. In addition, what differences are there in rights concerning the different classes?

Or is you claim of "second class citizen" merely an opinion of yours?

Women were considered as second class citizens until they were looked upon as equal. History shows all kinds of second class citizens so how can it be merely an opinion of mine?

OK, if it's not only your opinion, then show me who is legally considered a second class citizen.

That's a load of crap. There are absolutely no U.S. government declarations of "second class citizenship." There is no such thing, as far as official U.S. government practice goes, as "different degrees of citizenship."

I am a naturalized U.S. citizen currently living abroad.

I am not a "second class citizen" due to the fact that I am naturalized as opposed to "native born."

Nor am I a "second class citizen" due to the fact that I live outside the U.S.

There is nothing in my U.S. passport to indicate that I am any "less" of a citizen than any other U.S. citizen. I am registered to vote in America. I still pay taxes there. I still have to file a tax return every year.

I don't know where you're getting your "information" from, but it's pretty bogus, no offense. There is no such thing as an official delegation of "second class citizenship" instituted by the U.S. government. If you're a citizen, you're a citizen, period.

In addition, I am not a "second class citizen" of Japan, where I currently live. I'm not a citizen of Japan at all. I am a foreign resident. So, your claim that Americans living abroad are "second class citizens of their country of residence" is also a load of crap.

if there isn't then why would government be worried about second class citizen status as claimed by democrats! Why were women classified as second class citizens which limited their property rights and other rights? US history defined second class citizens which pertained to different groups of legal citizens that had limited rights.

it's just an extra security measure, I think there should be a second process to become considered a natural born citizen or what I call a reborn american procedure where an immigrant could be considered a natural born citizen.

Truly moronic, you can not process someone into a natural born citizen.

Why not, there isn't anything in the constitution to say the government can't change what it means to be a natural born citizen does it?

You're a real moron, and you are proving to everyone that reads this that you have no idea what "natural born" means.

well then I guess this idea isn't a good one or atleast needs work.

If a baby is born via cesarean section, aka "cesarean born", what paperwork process would you propose that could make them "natural born"?

well they would be considered natural born because despite how they are born they are born in this country.

[sigh]

You're hopeless.

Well to be fair I did say that this idea needed work.

There are, as a matter of practice, different classes of citizenship!

No, there aren't.

I am a naturalized U.S. citizen, and the U.S. government considers me just as much of a U.S. citizen as a "native born" one.

I am also currently living abroad, but that doesn't put me in a "different class of citizenship" either.

Please tell us exactly how, "as a matter of practice," I am in a different class of citizenship from any other U.S. citizen. Because I've never experience any "practice" of the sort.

So, please explain to me how you know more about this situation than I do -- even though I am actually in the situation, whereas you apparently are not.

something you don't know....
we use a lower case "c" for a citizen of the federal government and an upper case "C" to denote a Citizen of a state of the Union.] It should be noted that "citizens of the United States" are not The People who created the states, then by state action, created the federal government. These "federal citizens" are not "parties to the Constitution" and therefore did not have legal claim to the same rights, privileges, and immunities that state Citizens did.

To become a “citizen” is to enter into society as a member thereof. On the other hand, a native or indigent or “natural born Citizen” is a child born in the country of two citizen parents who have already entered into and become members of the society. Fine line from Naturalization.

I was thinking along the lines of ok you become a citizen through naturalization but you can't become president if you aren't a natural born citizen so what if instead of opening the privileged to be president to all immigrants we have a process where someone could theoretically become a reborn american by taking a test and getting a recommendation from your local congressman to become a reborn american and have as much right to run for office as president as anyone naturally born. I'm just batting around ideas.

you are still a naturalized citizen...a reborn citizen is a renounced citizen reinstated!

looks like I either need better terminology or a new solution. what is your solution to the problem you brought up then?

I am a naturalized U.S. citizen originally from So. Korea.

The fact that I can't become president doesn't make me less of a citizen.

No American person under the age of 35 can be president either. That doesn't mean they are not citizens. Nor does it mean they are somehow a "lesser degree" of citizen than those who are over 35.

Also, Americans under the age of 18 cannot vote. They are still citizens. They are not "lesser citizens" simply because they can't vote.

Citizenship and voting rights are separate issues, although they obviously "overlap" once a person becomes 18.

LEGAL, Naturalized citizens should be equal to native born citizens. 'Second Class status can be reserved for criminals. Illegals should not even have a path to citizenship unless they go home and come back the right way.

It is that way in most other first-world nations, why not here?

which other first-world nations?

Mexico for starters. Becoming a Mexican citizen greatly deters immigration of any kind. How about China? England? Most of Europe. USA is about the most open in the world.

Mexico is a 3rd world country...
China is a 2nd world country...
Most of europe is not specific enough to look at the laws but most of europe is 2nd world...
The UK is just as open as america (if not more because of ex-british colonists having the right to abode)

That's just unfair.

To whom is it more unfair towards?