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Should government limit itself to police, military, and law courts?

Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆ 2012/04/15 19:27:09
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There are three, and only three, services that government should and must do for people. All have to do with managing force and protecting people’s lives, liberties, and properties. They are:
  • Police, to protect people from criminals (that is, internal criminals).
  • Armies and navies, to protect people from external criminals, meaning those seeking to invade, conquer, or destroy from spite.
  • Courts of law, to settle disputes. Courts also tell those who
    command the police and the armies and navy what they may or may not do.

The Constitution
of the United States, as James Madison and his colleagues originally
wrote it, stuck to these principles, with one minor exception:


The Congress shall have the power…to [set up] post offices and post roads.


The Constitution further refined the basic model of a government limiting itself to managing force. It separated the power to make laws from the powers to execute and interpret them. It further reserved armies and navies to the federal government, except in time of immediate invasion or similar emergency. It reserved police to State
governments (except for policing the capital city and the “forts,
magazines, arsenals, dockyard, and other needful buildings” of the armed
forces and the civilian administration).


What are taxes?

The word tax comes from ancient Greek words and roots that stand for order. Taxes are moneys that people pay someone to keep order. Paul of Tarsus recognized that taxes (or tributes as he called them) have their place in paying those who manage force in society. (See Romans 13:1-7.)


Ayn Rand believed
that taxes should be voluntary. But she never suggested how to collect
enough taxes to pay for the “insurance” against unlawful force that
government gives people. The closest she came to suggesting a way to
collect the “insurance premium” was a government lottery. More broadly,
she suggested that people must first regain their freedom, and then work out how to pay for government voluntarily.


However a “fully free” government would collect its taxes, it would not have to collect nearly as much
if it had to pay for only the three services that this article
describes. Though Ayn Rand did not describe this fully, anyone can
readily see that:


  • These three services today account for less than half the total direct or “money” cost of government.
  • Removing all services beyond these three would lift the opportunity cost of government.

That second point is critical. In an “Ayn Rand world,” the tax base would be larger, and the tax burden less, than they are today. So the tax rates would be lower than ever.

Read More: http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2012/04/15...

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Top Opinion

  • Chi~Cat 2012/04/15 19:46:01 (edited)
    Yes
    Chi~Cat
    +13
    Stick with the original game plan, for it never hurt our country before the Fraud-in-Chief was elected by a Nation of fools with VRS.

    Thomas Jefferson:

    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

    Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now? Hmmmm... prophetic, eh? F*ck Obamacare & Mooshelle.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” (Quoting Cesare Beccaria) Ya Ya: RIGHT ON CHICAGO DEMOCRAPS, YOU ALL SUCK!

    The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.

    The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits.

    No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of ano...











    Stick with the original game plan, for it never hurt our country before the Fraud-in-Chief was elected by a Nation of fools with VRS.

    Thomas Jefferson:

    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

    Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now? Hmmmm... prophetic, eh? F*ck Obamacare & Mooshelle.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” (Quoting Cesare Beccaria) Ya Ya: RIGHT ON CHICAGO DEMOCRAPS, YOU ALL SUCK!

    The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.

    The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits.

    No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him.

    To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.

    I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious.

    When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Liberty shall prevail November 6, 2012. Goodbye, the tyrant One.

    Me:.....Another four years of this horse hockey will be the destruction of our country and accolades for the domestic BS commies who feel alive and thriving on this again.

    We are Americans. Let's take our Country back, and tell this hi-jacked admin to take a hike...errrr. raft will suffice.

    Wish you were here, Jefferson/Patton!!!!
    (more)

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  • John 2012/04/21 13:18:35
    Yes
    John
    +1
    Keep the Chinese, Islamists and Illegals from invading our nation and make sure the interstate highways manage to connect in the right places. Aside from that, get the hell out of my life.
  • Temlako... John 2012/04/21 13:30:51
    Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆
    +1
    Actually, there's a better way to manage highways. Maybe this whole "post offices and post roads" thing needs revocation.
  • John Temlako... 2012/04/21 13:56:01
    John
    +1
    You're probably right. (And it wouldn't be a bad idea at all if all the roads coming out of California dead-ended at their state-line. LOL)

    (Maybe I should have said "at the People's Republic border!")
  • dallas John 2012/04/23 21:39:54
  • John dallas 2012/04/23 22:33:58
    John
    +1
    Depends what you call "pro-life." I'm a true conservative. It might surprise you to know that a true (note: True) conservative believes the government has no rightful place in making medical decisions for it's citizens. It should have virtually no role in their day to day lives. Personally, I find the whole concept of abortion repugnant, I do believe an unborn child is alive long before full-term. I also think that the very fact that one might want or need an abortion (except in the case of rape) suggests a very high degree of personal irresponsibility. However as much as I hate abortion, I don't think it's the government's role to make that decision one way or another. That decision is between a woman and her conscience and her god, if she has one. For me to think otherwise violates my conservative principles, and one should live by principles. Not situational ethics.

    However, just as I believe government has no right to dictate a woman's medical choices and procedures, I believe it also has no right to force me to subsidize what I believe is a personally irresponsible and morally reprehensible decision. The government should be neither pro nor con, no laws banning it as well as no subsidies paying for it or subsidizing for organizations who might support or encourage it. (Like Planned Parenthood for example.)

    So I guess I'm pro-life, but I believe in another's freedom of choice to be pro-death if she chooses.
  • dallas John 2012/04/24 02:15:09
  • John dallas 2012/04/24 12:08:07 (edited)
    John
    +1
    I have the same right as you do when you libs say you don't want your tax-money to go to subsidize big-business or to support defense or whatever. Actually, under current law, federal tax-money shouldn't be being used to fund any abortions. However it's going to abortion groups like Planned Parenthood (who claim they someway keep that money separated from their abortion-funds).

    If you want to pay for abortions, you have every right to do so. Go stand in front of a Planned Parenthood office and tell someone going in you'll cover it, or make a donation to Planned Parenthood. Better yet, buy abortion gift-certificates and give them out at Christmas or for other special occasions. (I'd assume for weddings and christenings they might be considered inappropriate.)

    That's the trouble with you libs. It's not enough just to have the right or freedom of choice in any given situation. There's always the next step where you want someone else to pay for it. The Constitution gives the federal government only two specific duties. That's to provide for the common-defense and to promote free trade between the states. That last one has been stretched way beyond any reasonable limits or interpretations.

    Anyway, like I said, the next election will probably not only decide who the next presi...
    I have the same right as you do when you libs say you don't want your tax-money to go to subsidize big-business or to support defense or whatever. Actually, under current law, federal tax-money shouldn't be being used to fund any abortions. However it's going to abortion groups like Planned Parenthood (who claim they someway keep that money separated from their abortion-funds).

    If you want to pay for abortions, you have every right to do so. Go stand in front of a Planned Parenthood office and tell someone going in you'll cover it, or make a donation to Planned Parenthood. Better yet, buy abortion gift-certificates and give them out at Christmas or for other special occasions. (I'd assume for weddings and christenings they might be considered inappropriate.)

    That's the trouble with you libs. It's not enough just to have the right or freedom of choice in any given situation. There's always the next step where you want someone else to pay for it. The Constitution gives the federal government only two specific duties. That's to provide for the common-defense and to promote free trade between the states. That last one has been stretched way beyond any reasonable limits or interpretations.

    Anyway, like I said, the next election will probably not only decide who the next president will be, but a general referendum on just what direction the citizens want this country to go. Farther into the socialist welfare state or to reverse course and go back towards the limited government and core principles of personal responsibility that allowed us to become the nation we once were. A nation where people worldwide wanted to come to America to build a new life, not collect a free-check and try to re-create America into the same kind of place they fled.
    (more)
  • dallas John 2012/04/24 16:50:23
  • John dallas 2012/04/24 17:37:22
    John
    "I also do not want my tax money given to Faith Based religious organizations.. Or to any foreign nations..."

    Whattaya know! We actually agree on a couple of things!
  • dallas John 2012/04/24 18:50:06
  • John dallas 2012/04/24 19:23:10
    John
    Wouldn't be a bad idea at all if it could be put into place.
  • dallas John 2012/04/24 19:33:55
  • John dallas 2012/04/24 21:33:58
    John
    +1
    Yes, it could be done, but could you even trust the government to keep that honest? LOL (Sad but true)
  • All American 2012/04/21 12:19:18
    Undecided
    All American
    +1
    I think is should try to get closer to that than it is now. We're becoming a nanny state.
  • Pat 2012/04/21 08:33:58
    Undecided
    Pat
    I meant to click no. Our country is way to complicated at this point to limit government to only those three things.
  • Oaces_boss_yo® 2012/04/21 08:31:28
  • Philo-CommieHater! 2012/04/20 00:49:26
    Yes
    Philo-CommieHater!
    +2
    Yep, that sounds about right.
  • cynsity 2012/04/18 00:01:32
    Undecided
    cynsity
    The "government" isn't just washington.... the "government" is the local city counsel and school board... I want them running what they run and not running military and courts... and government is the state legislators who fix roads and build schools and hospitals and they should do that... so when you define government and you define what they should and shouldn't be doing you should remember that while we havea 'federal" constitution we also have state constitutions and we might have the federal government we also have local city/county government.
  • Temlako... cynsity 2012/04/18 00:03:08
    Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆
    That's fine. But now: should *any* government, at *any* level, run anything *but*& the three institutions that have to do with force?
  • cynsity Temlako... 2012/04/18 00:09:37
    cynsity
    +1
    Not sure of your question are you asking should governemnt (federal and otherwise)run police, and military? Courts are NOT a instution of "force" as ALL Judges with the exception of those on the Supreme court are elected so the people technically run the courts through their local vote.
  • Temlako... cynsity 2012/04/18 00:18:31
    Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆
    Well,, actually, they are. Ever had a judge threaten, in your presence, to hold someone in contempt?
  • cynsity Temlako... 2012/04/18 00:38:28
    cynsity
    +1
    yes I have been declaired in contempt, but that is not a use of force that is a use of law. Force is when a squad of soldiers holding superior weponds comes into your home and demand you feed them and house them and give them the comforts you can/cant supply them through your efforts.
    Hense the Constitution's 3rd amendment.
    The rules of law give courts the ability to dictate behavior to those using the courts. To declare a person in contempt to to declair they are not observing the rules of the courtroom and the rules of laws. There is no FORCE there is only FACT of the act. Without such abilities the courts would be rendered useless and laws could not be enforced in a society
  • Temlako... cynsity 2012/04/18 00:52:30
    Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆
    That's a distinction with less difference than you suppose. Political authority *is* force. The police, the military, and the courts each perform a function having to do with managing force and protecting people's rights. And I said *rights,* not "entitlements."

    Here's another poll on the subject:

    http://www.sodahead.com/unite...
  • cynsity Temlako... 2012/04/18 01:04:35
    cynsity
    +1
    force and protection are diametrically different. Force is a violation of rights. Protection is enforcement of rights.

    Here are some books on the topic:
    The Federalists Papers: Hamilinton, Madison, Jay
    The Spirit of Laws; Secondat and Montesquieu
    Law Dictionary US
    American Constitutional Interpretation; Murphy, Fleming, Barber
    Ratification; Maier
    Webster's Dictionary
  • Andy Fl... cynsity 2012/04/21 09:27:10
  • cynsity Andy Fl... 2012/04/21 21:12:26
    cynsity
    +2
    I do not disagree. But the Federal Constitution means nothing if state constitutions adn even local constitution (aka city charters) are not obeyed. It is the lowest level of governements whic most affect the person every day and it the laws and "rules" those local governemnts put in place which most grant inequality to the people.

    Laws made by the federal congress are realitive ineffective, even tax laws, if local governement simply are willing to use the powers they have been granted to stop them.

    But as for the converstation in regards to this question the government has never been set up to be an enforcer it was set up by the founders to be a protector the problem is that it now believe it must protect us from ourselves adn it thinks this way because we have allowed to through complantecy.
  • Andy Fl... cynsity 2012/04/21 21:24:27
    Andy Fletcher
    +1
    All very true. The point being, if we are to have any hope at regaining our freedom, the fed MUST be reduced to it's original powers. Part of the problem stems from going from an appointed senate to an elected one, and then our repeated electing of those who would not protect states rights, which was their intended purpose.
  • cynsity Andy Fl... 2012/04/21 22:42:37
    cynsity
    +2
    THAT is the biggest problem. When the senate went from being the state's rep to being the party reps we lost...
  • maggiemay 2012/04/17 18:59:45
    Yes
    maggiemay
    +1
    The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help".
  • hari 2012/04/17 17:24:50
    Yes
    hari
  • rustyshackelford 2012/04/17 02:35:53 (edited)
  • sbtbill 2012/04/16 19:58:25
    No
    sbtbill
    The government needs to be involved with a lot more then the military, police, and courts.

    First off by definition the courts do a lot besides those things. The government is needed to make business work. Without the government there could be no corporations. Therefore the government needs to regulate corporations. This can not be left to the state governments because they are often much smaller then the corporations would try to regulate so they would just get laughed at.

    Without modern public education this country would be less then 3rd rate. The military wouldn't work. The corporations would move all the jobs out. So we need that. Since both the population and the corporations are multi-state that means the Feds need to be involved. Plus poor areas of the country like the South need to be funded by rich areas like California and New England or they would fall way behind.

    National Parks are needed to maintain the most valuable places in America. Only the Federal government can afford to set aside this land.

    Without Federal funding of research the internet would not exist, in fact most of the modern telecommunications system would not exist. Nor would we be able to defend ourselves from other who did fund research. Without it we would be much less safer from ...

    The government needs to be involved with a lot more then the military, police, and courts.

    First off by definition the courts do a lot besides those things. The government is needed to make business work. Without the government there could be no corporations. Therefore the government needs to regulate corporations. This can not be left to the state governments because they are often much smaller then the corporations would try to regulate so they would just get laughed at.

    Without modern public education this country would be less then 3rd rate. The military wouldn't work. The corporations would move all the jobs out. So we need that. Since both the population and the corporations are multi-state that means the Feds need to be involved. Plus poor areas of the country like the South need to be funded by rich areas like California and New England or they would fall way behind.

    National Parks are needed to maintain the most valuable places in America. Only the Federal government can afford to set aside this land.

    Without Federal funding of research the internet would not exist, in fact most of the modern telecommunications system would not exist. Nor would we be able to defend ourselves from other who did fund research. Without it we would be much less safer from weather events. Tornado's would arrive with notice, crops would dry up in unpredicted droughts. Because of the Federal space program we have food to eat. By the way this is why the founding fathers set up the post office.

    This is not 1789 when most people lived and died with 50 miles of where they were born, now we move thousands of miles at the drop of a hat.
    (more)
  • TerryAgee 2012/04/16 18:35:09
    No
    TerryAgee
    +5
    Let's us first limit the terms of Congress. Yay or nay?
  • dallas TerryAgee 2012/04/23 21:44:15
  • Wren77 2012/04/16 17:56:09
    No
    Wren77
    +1
    The tornado storms this past week, and also the hurricanes, emphasize the need for disaster relief. You forgot about diplomacy and foreign affairs. Even the founding fathers recognized the need for that. Also highways, all transportation,Nat'l parks, and Congress [taxation with repesentation]. Foreign trade, immigration, etc.
  • Richard Hungwell AKA Relent... 2012/04/16 16:24:52
    Yes
    Richard Hungwell AKA Relentless
    +2
    I was going to say they should be involved in a couple more things, but after reading this I stand corrected, I think they have it right.
  • Murph 65 2012/04/16 16:23:47
    Yes
    Murph 65
    +2
    Am assuming the "police" here are city, county and state cops, not government cops. The military, of course. Law, work also. They need to maintain infrastructure - interstate highways, etc. After that, not much for them to do, I don't think. Which is probably why they spend so much time in DC coming up with legislature we mostly don't need, sticking their noses into things they do not need to be stuck into, and in any way, shape or form finding something to do with their time to keep us voting them back so they do not have to go get a real job.
  • Brat 2012/04/16 15:55:46
    Undecided
    Brat
    I'd lean more towards yes but infrastructure and education would need to be included. Can you imagine how great this would be?
  • voice_matters 2012/04/16 15:13:21
    No
    voice_matters
    +1
    the governmnetr should follow the constitution. the fed the us constitution and the states their constitutions.
  • David 2012/04/16 14:46:08
    No
    David
    Education, Health and infra structure are also areas in which government has a place among others
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