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Should CIA Operatives Who Committed Acts of Torture on Orders from the White House Be Prosecuted?

StarrGazerr April 17, 2009 15:09:21
No they shouldn't be prosecuted.  It was their duty to follow the President's Orders
Yes they should be prosecuted.  Torture is unconstitutional and they should have known better.
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Dealing With a Disgrace
President Obama strikes a wise balance in coming to terms with the torture of terrorism suspects.

Friday, April 17, 2009

THE OBAMA administration acted courageously and wisely yesterday with its dual actions on interrogation policy. The pair of decisions -- one essentially forgiving government agents who may have committed heinous acts they were told were legal, the other signaling that such acts must never again be condoned by the United States -- struck exactly the right balance.

The administration announced that it would not seek to press criminal charges against CIA operatives who participated in enhanced interrogations of terrorism suspects during the Bush administration. "It would be unfair to prosecute dedicated men and women working to protect America for conduct that was sanctioned in advance by the Justice Department," Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said in a statement.

At the same time, the Justice Department released and repudiated four more Bush-era memos from the Office of Legal Counsel that provided the legal justification for such extreme interrogations. An Aug. 1, 2002, OLC memo endorsed the legality of 10 techniques the CIA considered for use against al-Qaeda leader Abu Zubaida. Some techniques were mild, such as holding the detainee's face or grasping him by the lapels to grab his attention. Others were despicable, such as waterboarding, in which water is poured over a prisoner's cloth-covered face to simulate drowning, or sleep deprivation for up to 11 days. Eleven days! A May 10, 2005, memo gave the legal thumbs up to confining a detainee in a cramped, dark box for up to eight hours at a time and up to 18 hours a day. Some techniques were simply bizarre, such as placing a caterpillar into a confined box holding Mr. Zubaida -- who was believed to be afraid of insects -- as long as the insect did not sting and Mr. Zubaida was not led to believe that it was capable of stinging.

By repudiating the memos, the Obama administration has again seized the high ground and restored some of the honor lost over the past few years. President Obama's actions not only restore confidence that this country will not torture, but he has also strengthened the nation's moral authority in condemning these heinous acts wherever they occur.

Yet the decision to forgo prosecutions should not prevent -- and perhaps should even encourage -- further investigation about the circumstances that gave rise to torture. What has become clear as more of the so-called torture memos are released is that common sense and established legal doctrine were often contorted to justify abhorrent techniques. An OLC memo dated May 30, 2005, and released yesterday reveals that at that time, the CIA had custody of 94 detainees and had used a variety of enhanced interrogation techniques against 28. All the techniques were deemed legal as long as they did not inflict prolonged or severe physical or mental pain. More light needs to be shed on how decisions were made and why. And more information is needed on who in the Bush administration made the ultimate decision to authorize the use of techniques that have long been considered torture and a violation of domestic and international legal strictures. A commission like the one that investigated the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks would likely provide the best vehicle for such an exploration.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/...

EDIT: THE QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT THOSE WHO GAVE THE ORDERS SHOULD BE PROSECUTED IS NOT THE QUESTION HERE. THIS QUESTION SEEKS ONLY YOUR OPINIONS ON THOSE WHO RECEIVED THE ORDERS. THANKS.
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  • Bob-chicka-wow-wow April 17, 2009 15:23:59
    Yes they should be prosecuted. Torture is unconstitutional and they should h...
    Bob-chicka-wow-wow
    +9
    they broke the law. it should not matter who you are or what rank you are. i know they were doing as they were told to do, but this is the first step in the chain. hopefully they work their way to the top

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  • 519378 May 31, 2009 18:17:20
    Yes they should be prosecuted. Torture is unconstitutional and they should h...
    519378
    http://www.salon.com/news/abu...

    The Abu Ghraib files
    279 photographs and 19 videos from the Army's internal investigation record

    The first two videos in this series depict a group of naked, hooded detainees who have apparently been forced to masturbate for the camera. The third and fourth videos in the series show three soldiers surrounding a detainee, apparently striking him

    "I saw Grainer [sic] punching one of the prisoners right in his face very hard when he refused to take off his underwear," the detainee claimed on Jan. 18, 2004. "I heard them begging for help."
    According to the CID, a medical log that night reported the following: "15-year old Iraqi male treated for hemorrhage of his anus. Patient was raped in his hard cell."

    These photos were taken using cameras owned by Cpl. Charles A. Graner Jr., Staff Sgt. Ivan Frederick II and Spc. Sabrina Harman. They depict a long night of physical and sexual abuse of seven detainees accused of inciting a riot inside the prison.
    They were verbally abused, stripped, slapped, punched, jumped on, forced into a human pyramid, forced to simulate masturbation, and forced to simulate oral sex, several Army reports concluded. The Army's investigation identified Frederick, Graner, Harman, Sgt. Javal S. Davis, Spc. Megan Ambuhl, Sivits and E..."'"'"""'"
    http://www.salon.com/news/abu...

    The Abu Ghraib files
    279 photographs and 19 videos from the Army's internal investigation record

    The first two videos in this series depict a group of naked, hooded detainees who have apparently been forced to masturbate for the camera. The third and fourth videos in the series show three soldiers surrounding a detainee, apparently striking him

    "I saw Grainer [sic] punching one of the prisoners right in his face very hard when he refused to take off his underwear," the detainee claimed on Jan. 18, 2004. "I heard them begging for help."
    According to the CID, a medical log that night reported the following: "15-year old Iraqi male treated for hemorrhage of his anus. Patient was raped in his hard cell."

    These photos were taken using cameras owned by Cpl. Charles A. Graner Jr., Staff Sgt. Ivan Frederick II and Spc. Sabrina Harman. They depict a long night of physical and sexual abuse of seven detainees accused of inciting a riot inside the prison.
    They were verbally abused, stripped, slapped, punched, jumped on, forced into a human pyramid, forced to simulate masturbation, and forced to simulate oral sex, several Army reports concluded. The Army's investigation identified Frederick, Graner, Harman, Sgt. Javal S. Davis, Spc. Megan Ambuhl, Sivits and England as involved in the abuse. "CPL Graner knocked at least one detainee unconscious and SSG Frederick punched one so hard in the chest that he couldn't breath and a medic was summoned," a report by Maj. Gen. George R. Fay found.
    Another detainee also described the forced masturbation in a Jan. 18, 2004, interview with Army investigators. According to the criminal file, this detainee's ripped pant leg can be seen on the far left of a photo in which Graner sits atop a pile of detainees, his arm cocked in preparation for a punch. "How did you feel when the guards were treating you this way?" an investigator asked the detainee.
    The detainee replied: "I was trying to kill myself but I didn't have any way of doing it."
    (more)
  • ruby May 06, 2009 15:01:43 (edited)
    Undecided
    ruby
    Obama Will Not Prosecute CIA.
  • wtw April 24, 2009 03:20:56
    No they shouldn't be prosecuted. It was their duty to follow the President's...
    wtw
    Move on--to use a cliche. These tactics were known and sanctioned by a by-partisan Armed services committee. If anyone should bear the brunt it should be the members of this group.
  • jspooner7 April 24, 2009 02:21:00
    No they shouldn't be prosecuted. It was their duty to follow the President's...
    jspooner7
    NO!
  • mark 1 April 24, 2009 00:42:54
    Undecided
    mark 1
    +1
    NO and i say water board congress and all our Government. Maybe we will get the truth out of them for once.
  • Martha April 24, 2009 00:08:01 (edited)
    No they shouldn't be prosecuted. It was their duty to follow the President's...
    Martha
    +2
    Only if we successfully prosecute every congressman or senator that approved it.
  • ILEE ~ Martha April 24, 2009 00:14:58
    ILEE ~
    Amen sister !
  • nina April 24, 2009 00:02:10
    No they shouldn't be prosecuted. It was their duty to follow the President's...
    nina
    It was a necessary evil. I do not understand why the US can not conduct torture on the enemy. They the enemy has always conducted torture practices. Thank the Geneva Convention for that! Though they say it was because of non combatives and prisoner of war that were being mistreated, I beleive that those prisoners which were enemies of the United States during war needed to be tortured in order to get vital information to protect this country.



    I suppose we are not going to do anything about the American reporter that has been put in prison in Iran either.


    What is the US suppose to do, kiss the enemy and send him back home while he laughs at America for being INFIDELS! Only the people who run this country are responsible for what comes next.
  • lady_c5_loadmaster April 23, 2009 23:33:28
    No they shouldn't be prosecuted. It was their duty to follow the President's...
    lady_c5_loadmaster
    +1
    I would like to see Obama and his cronies survive the military survival school POW camp. I went through it in the early 80's. We were deprived of sleep, put in small cells where we had to stand and could not sit down, stripped searched and crammed into small boxes where we were on our backs with our knees up on our chest not able to move.
  • Vampire mom April 23, 2009 23:29:06 (edited)
    No they shouldn't be prosecuted. It was their duty to follow the President's...
    Vampire mom
    Just doing my job. Hell yeah don't mess with us in the first place are you crazy remember Heroshima. They just kill you in there country they, should be glad to be alive and only tortured. Not dead.
  • Hammer April 23, 2009 22:51:47
    Undecided
    Hammer
    I'm not really undecided But there was no good choice. Who gets to decide Harry Tax dodger Reid, I don't have to show I'm a U.S. natrual born citizen Barry, What federal law breaking B.S. artist in D.C. gets to decide?
  • itoldyouso April 23, 2009 22:48:23
    Undecided
    itoldyouso
    +1
    I was a advisor in Vietnam before most Americans even knew it was a country. You think we treat our enemeys bad, you should have seen what some can do to their own countrymen. We have'nt got mad enough.
  • ! April 23, 2009 21:00:24
    No they shouldn't be prosecuted. It was their duty to follow the President's...
    !
    +3
    I will say no way Jose! They did nothing wrong.

    To quote Bill O'Reilly, "Torture my ass"!

    RWD
  • StarrGa... ! April 23, 2009 21:02:09
    StarrGazerr
    +2
    To quote America: "PLEASE Torture Bill O'Reilly's ass"

    {{ Couldn't help my self RWD - sorry :) }}
  • ! StarrGa... April 23, 2009 21:07:32
    !
    +1
    That's OK Starr! There are times I would like to do so myself except I just turn him off or down. ;-)

    If I can't take it from friends, how can I take it from those who are not friends?

    RWD
  • StarrGa... ! April 23, 2009 21:14:13
    StarrGazerr
    +1
    You know, I think we could achieve true political unity in this country if we took Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann, Wolf Blitzer, Katie Couric, Brian Wiliams and Charlie Gibson and sent them all to Exile Island together.....
  • ! StarrGa... April 23, 2009 21:17:07
    !
    Now there is something you and I will vote for the same side on!

    Super Idea!

    RWD
  • itoldyouso StarrGa... April 23, 2009 22:50:53
    itoldyouso
    Disagree then we would have no hate, and discontent. That would'nt be American like. We would be just as bad as Obama. Waking up every morning and reshaping our lips to confront the world.
  • funtime April 21, 2009 19:12:07
    No they shouldn't be prosecuted. It was their duty to follow the President's...
    funtime
    +1
    I think President Bush, VP Cheney, Don Rumsfeld and other top persons in the Bush Administration should be made to answer for their actions not the lowly CIA agents and others that were following orders.
  • The Lorax April 19, 2009 20:43:11
    Yes they should be prosecuted. Torture is unconstitutional and they should h...
    The Lorax
    Oops, I just asked the same question before I saw this!
  • Manster April 19, 2009 20:20:51
    No they shouldn't be prosecuted. It was their duty to follow the President's...
    Manster
    +2
    Unless the higher -ups who issued the orders go to jail,neither should they go to jail. My advice to Bush and Cheney is don't leave the country!If you visit over in Europe , you face the possibility of being arrested and charged with war crimes!
  • hyacint... Manster April 20, 2009 02:58:06
    hyacinthwoman
    +1
    Wouldn't that be delicious?
  • Manster hyacint... April 20, 2009 13:38:12
    Manster
    OH YEAH!Except I think Cheney would do like Enron's Kenneth Lay and die from a massive heart attack as soon as he is arrested!
  • anonymous April 19, 2009 18:35:08
    Yes they should be prosecuted. Torture is unconstitutional and they should h...
    anonymous
    +3
    I'm sorry, but I believe "but I was ordered to do it!" should never be a valid excuse for following orders one knows is illegal or unconstitutional.
  • hyacinthwoman April 19, 2009 06:19:27
    Yes they should be prosecuted. Torture is unconstitutional and they should h...
    hyacinthwoman
    +2
    This was the closest answer for me. I certainly don't think the torturers should get a free pass. I do think that the powers that gave the orders should pay to the full extent of the law.
  • WORLDPEACE April 19, 2009 05:36:12 (edited)
    Yes they should be prosecuted. Torture is unconstitutional and they should h...
    WORLDPEACE
    +2
    They and those who ordered it need to be prosecuted to honor U.S. laws. Otherwise, we become a mockery and a lawless country that remains without accountability. This also sends a message to the world that, while there has been much lawlessness in our government, we will deal with it constitutionally and restore respect to our Nation here and abroad. There is no other way.
  • BlueStar Belle April 19, 2009 00:57:55
    No they shouldn't be prosecuted. It was their duty to follow the President's...
    BlueStar Belle
    +4
    I think Obama's playing chess and most others are playing checkers. This is a terrific set-up to the prosecutions we know must come. It does not make me happy to see these people get a pass, but I'm hopeful that those who gave the orders will still be held to account.
  • Jeff April 19, 2009 00:49:50
    Yes they should be prosecuted. Torture is unconstitutional and they should h...
    Jeff
    +2
    The Nazis favorite excuse was that they were just dong what they were told. It did not fly back then. Now we are supposed to let these torturers use that excuse. If we don't prosecute then what is going to keep people from following orders in the future?
  • Manster Jeff April 20, 2009 13:45:14
    Manster
    Jeff, you do realize that you're opening yourself up to a lot of backlash from some of the Sodahead's who won't like you associating Bush and Cheney with Adolph and his lot?They are sure that only President Obama ranks that distinction! :)
  • crimson dragon April 19, 2009 00:16:53
    Undecided
    crimson dragon
    +1
    In general, no, but it depends on the circumstances.
  • Amertume April 18, 2009 22:36:25
    Yes they should be prosecuted. Torture is unconstitutional and they should h...
    Amertume
    +2
    People who would take orders above morality are ignoble cochons. Screw them, they deserve punishment.
  • Körïnthïän April 18, 2009 21:31:32 (edited)
    Yes they should be prosecuted. Torture is unconstitutional and they should h...
    Körïnthïän
    +7
    Nobody gets punished for the torture then? USA is a joke and will have a damn hard time to ever claim to have a moral authority in the world.

    The CIA people that didn't object to torturing others should get prosecuted. You are always responsible for your actions.

    Only cowards hide behind "it was an order!".
  • citizenoftherepublic April 18, 2009 18:56:06
    Yes they should be prosecuted. Torture is unconstitutional and they should h...
    citizenoftherepublic
    +3
    it is intolerable.
  • Meg April 18, 2009 13:33:24
    Undecided
    Meg
    +5
    Americans should not torture. John McCain, who suffered torture himself, is totally against it. It is not part of American values. President Obama is between a rock and a hard place. He wants to bring the country together, but I believe the higher ups who condoned this should be brought to justice. Otherwise, a precedent is being set "I only did as I was ordered to do." Sound familiar?
  • thakatchaser April 18, 2009 12:48:21
    No they shouldn't be prosecuted. It was their duty to follow the President's...
    thakatchaser
    +5
    They were ordered by Bush and Cheney to torture these people, so they did what they were told, and Bush & Cheney should be the ones being prosecuted
  • crimson... thakatc... April 19, 2009 00:19:07
    crimson dragon
    +2
    Fat Chance
  • hyacint... thakatc... April 19, 2009 06:21:43
    hyacinthwoman
    +2
    I'd love to see the line up from Bush on down....
  • Manster thakatc... April 19, 2009 20:23:39
    Manster
    +2
    I'm with you on that Kat!Bag the REAL crooks!not the fall guys!
  • thakatc... Manster April 19, 2009 23:18:23
    thakatchaser
    +1
    They been having too many fall guys for their bullshit already like "Scooter" Libby, that ended up getting pardoned, now it's time for the real criminals to pay their debt to society.
  • Manster thakatc... April 20, 2009 00:19:38
    Manster
    +1
    You know it! We've already seen the BS that this bunch would pull on the"underlings " who didn't go along with the program! I'm sure Valerie Plame rings a bell on that front!I'd seriously advise Bush and Chaney not to go abroad,because I'm sure there are some countries that would love to arrest and charge them with war crimes!

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