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Should Christianity dictate American laws?

DFA 2012/06/16 03:25:40
No, that's unconstitutional.
Yes, it's what the founding fathers wanted.
Other... (comment)
Dance party anyone?
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"The clergy...believe that any portion of power confided to me [as
President] will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they
believe rightly: for I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal
hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this
is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion."
--Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 1800.








"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation.
But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have
been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made
them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" --- John Adams, letter
to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816



"The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized
learning. And ever since the Reformation, when or where has existed a
Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The
blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most
yahooish brutality, is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and
applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect,
though capable of the clearest proof, and you will find you have
disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your eyes and hand,
and fly into your face and eyes." --- John Adams, letter to John Taylor



"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty.
He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the
purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon,
unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their
purpose." --- Thomas Jefferson, to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814



"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women and children,
since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured,
fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity.
What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools,
and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the
earth." --- Thomas Jefferson, from "Notes on Virginia"



"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on
society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual
tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have
been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance
have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who
wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy
convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and
perpetuate it, needs them not." --- James Madison, "A Memorial and
Remonstrance", 1785



"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of
maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary
operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment
of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less,
in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and
servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
--- James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785



"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never
give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."



- Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865).



"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his
creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short,
who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the
individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor
such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism." - Albert Einstein



"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." - Albert Einstein



"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies." &

"Lighthouses are more helpful then churches."



-Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor





"The Bible and the Church have been the greatest stumbling blocks in the way of women's emancipation."



"The bible teaches that woman brought sin and death into the world, that
she precipitated the fall of the race, that she was arraigned before
the judgment seat of Heaven, tried, condemned and sentenced. Marriage
for her was to be a condition of bondage, maternity a period of
suffering and anguish, and in silence and subjection, she was to play
the role of a dependent on man's bounty for all her material wants, and
for all the information she might desire...Here is the Bible position of
woman briefly summed up."



She wrote of the Bible, "I found nothing grand in the history of the
Jews nor in the morals inculcated in the Pentateuch. Surely the writers
had a very low idea of the nature of their god. They made him not only
anthropomorphic, but of the very lowest type, jealous and revengeful,
loving violence rather than mercy. I know of no other books that so
fully teach the subjection and degradation of women." [Women Without
Superstition]



- Elizabeth Cady Stanton, American suffragist (1815-1902).



"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had
on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the
thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the
guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert
the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A
just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not
need the clergy."



During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of
Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in
all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility
in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution."



_ James Madison





"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity." &

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."



- John Adams





"I was born a heretic. I always distrust people who know so much about what God wants them to do to their fellows."

- Susan B. Anthony, American suffragist (1820-1906).



"Religion is all bunk."



"I cannot believe in the immortality of the soul.... No, all this talk
of an existence for us, as individuals, beyond the grave is wrong. It is
born of our tenacity of life – our desire to go on living … our dread
of coming to an end."



- Thomas Edison, American inventor (1847-1931).





"Revelation is a communication of something which the person to whom the
thing id revealed did not know before. For if I have done, a thing, or
seen it done, it needs no Revelation to tell me, I have done or seen it
done nor enable me to tell it or write it. Revelation therefore cannot
be applied to anything done upon earth, of which man is himself actor or
witness and consequently all the historical part of the Bible which is
almost the whole of it, is not within the meaning and compass of the
word Revelation and therefore is not the Word of God."-- Thomas Paine
The Age of Reason



"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the
cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which
more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we
call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of
wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." From - The
Age of Reason, Paine



"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or
Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify
and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit. " - Thomas Paine



"I do not believe in the divinity of Christ and there are many other of
the postulates of the orthodox creed to which I cannot subscribe." -
President William Howard Taft







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Top Opinion

  • L1 2012/06/16 05:26:11
    No, that's unconstitutional.
    L1
    +7
    No, this is not a theocracy, and I like to keep it that way.

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  • zeldamaster17 2012/07/23 05:18:14
    No, that's unconstitutional.
    zeldamaster17
    This country sucks... *sighs*
  • Adrint 2012/06/23 20:58:47
    No, that's unconstitutional.
    Adrint
    Anyone who says that it is what the founding fathers want needs to read a book. (Other then the New American Standard bible)
  • ☥☽✪☾DAW ☽✪☾ 2012/06/21 18:24:55
    No, that's unconstitutional.
    ☥☽✪☾DAW ☽✪☾
  • Danielle 2012/06/18 17:09:22 (edited)
    Other... (comment)
    Danielle
    In context with what the Founding Fathers wanted...they wanted a Christian-dominant society where nonChristians did not have to be Christian to live here. Evidence is their mentioning God in the Consitution, the 10 Commandments on a public government building's outer doors, Scripture verses all inside the Washington Monument. However the Founding Fathers did NOT want to fancy a particular denomination that everyone must pay dues to it, such as the required dues to the church of England in England-this is where "seperation of Church and State" came in. Certain Judeo-Christian rules, such as "thou shall not murder" should continue to always be a part of our laws...but others that have never been a part of our history should not. I do not feel government money should go toward any church denomination. The Founding Fathers did not want a Christian theocracy nor did they want a secular state where we cannot even mention God without having to worry about getting into trouble. But the government and the Church should be seperate as far as their being two kingdoms altogether...it was just meant to be influenced by Christianity but not a theocracy.
  • JenSemPa 2012/06/17 13:14:20
    Other... (comment)
    JenSemPa
    No, because "we the people" should do that.

    But Christianity and Christians still have a right to voice their views in the public square. Christians still have a right to take part in public life -- and to make their beliefs a part of public policy if the majority agrees.

    For example, when the vast majority of people in a Texas town have no problem with a Christian clergyman giving a benediction at a public high school graduation, an "offended minority" should not bully them into silence.
  • DFA JenSemPa 2012/06/17 21:24:25
    DFA
    Depends on if it's a public school or not.
  • Pat JenSemPa 2012/06/21 20:00:51
    Pat
    Actually I must disagree with you. Our government is set up to safeguard the minority. It is not, nor should it be, a government where the majority rides rough shod over the minority opinion. Our government and country were not founded on any belief in the Christian god and therefore, we should conduct public business as business and not as an exercise of faith in any god whatsoever. It's not a matter of anyone being "offended" by a Benediction at a public school program. It is a matter of separation of church and state. The state runs the school, everyone's taxes pay for the school and as such it should be a non religious graduation.
  • rawrimamoocow 2012/06/17 06:20:37
    Other... (comment)
    rawrimamoocow
    +1
    Canada has never sounded better
  • ed 2012/06/16 15:28:01
    Other... (comment)
    ed
    +1
    no they should not
  • KarenInKenoshaWisconsin 2012/06/16 11:27:58
    No, that's unconstitutional.
    KarenInKenoshaWisconsin
    +3
    Theocracy sucks. It's volatile, marginalizes, dehumanizes, criminalizes and kills open dialog. Of course, other things and people suffer for it.
  • Lady Whitewolf 2012/06/16 10:00:07
    No, that's unconstitutional.
    Lady Whitewolf
    +5
    Seperation of church and state!
  • 666_Maggots~PassionForGlory... 2012/06/16 07:16:39
    No, that's unconstitutional.
    666_Maggots~PassionForGlory BN-1
    +3
    If it does I'm crossing that border quicker than you can blink.
  • L1 2012/06/16 05:26:11
    No, that's unconstitutional.
    L1
    +7
    No, this is not a theocracy, and I like to keep it that way.
  • Matt Gray 2012/06/16 05:22:41
    Other... (comment)
    Matt Gray
    +1
    No, but neither should Christian culture be scrubbed from this nation as we're currently trying to do either...
  • Willie Matt Gray 2012/06/18 16:21:21
    Willie
    +1
    What? 75% of Americans are Christian. The minority is trying to protect themselves from the Christian theocracy that the right wing has been pushing since Ronald Reagan. No one is trying to scrub Christian culture.
  • Matt Gray Willie 2012/06/18 21:23:29
    Matt Gray
    Your kidding? Reports of crosses being taken down, schools in hot water of this or that, etc, etc, etc are in the news everyday. Claiming that no one is scrubbing Christian Culture from America is like claiming the holocaust didn't happen (alright that's extreme....but still both are obvious). Being an atheist maybe you don't take notice to things you naturally agree with.
  • Willie Matt Gray 2012/06/19 16:01:20
    Willie
    +3
    Keeping religion out of the public sphere, and not using public funds or public spaces for religious purposes, is in keeping with the bill of rights. There has been no attack on anyone's right to practice their religion as they please, or to scrub it from anywhere other than where it has illegally encroached.
  • Matt Gray Willie 2012/06/19 20:39:35
    Matt Gray
    Intolerance is the issue here. Not legalities. It's usually on the lines of this.

    Whole community is fine with one thing, one tourist comes in gets his panties in a bundle, makes enemies out the community, launches a massively frivolous lawsuit, gets massive payout...and one man has his demand seen over the wants of the community.

    Text book culture scrubbing. Look, I see your points, but the issue is not going to just magically disappear, even if you do feel religion is magic. The issue remains and it's not making friends out of anyone.
  • Pat Matt Gray 2012/06/21 20:05:54 (edited)
    Pat
    Would you be as tolerant if I insisted that a Pagan Pentacle be hung in the school? I don't think you would. But if you're going to recognize one religion you must recognize all the others as well. We are not a theocracy and we should make every effort to keep it that way.
    You are free to practice your religion in your churches, in your homes or in schools run and funded by your religion but NOT in the public venue.



    Pagan Pentacle

    Star of David

    Islamic symbols
  • Matt Gray Pat 2012/06/21 20:11:26
    Matt Gray
    Your right. Lets just get rid of the education department. They are the bigger issue. Thanks for clearing my mind.
  • Pat Matt Gray 2012/06/21 20:16:34
    Pat
    That would be throwing the baby out with the bath water. We need a Department of Education but I would want it improved to really get our education system moving so that we can again be tops in education. Right now, we're not.

    World Education Performance Stats
  • Matt Gray Pat 2012/06/21 20:18:53 (edited)
    Matt Gray
    Right now our educational system is too busy indoctrinating our children to be of any value. Politically, religiously, all sorts. Adults using kids for causes they're not even old enough to understand I think it's time to start again. You can't fix a irreparable system.
  • Mel 2012/06/16 05:18:24
    No, that's unconstitutional.
    Mel
    +4
    The founding fathers knew the dangers of blending religion and government and that's why we have a separation of church and state as coined by Thomas Jefferson.
  • Reichstolz 2012/06/16 05:01:54
    Yes, it's what the founding fathers wanted.
    Reichstolz
    +3
    It was Christian values that founded this nation.
  • Mel Reichstolz 2012/06/16 05:22:10
    Mel
    +5
    The same values that killed off natives, brought slavery, condemned open discussion? Burnt and hanged innocent people as witches? Great values. The founding fathers did not intend this, and if you paid half as much attention to their statements you'd know this
  • Lady Wh... Mel 2012/06/16 10:00:36
    Lady Whitewolf
    +3
    agreed
  • Mel Lady Wh... 2012/06/16 23:32:35
    Mel
    +4
    Thanks lovely lady. Obviously the people who object haven't read the quotes of the founding fathers or too damned lazy to do research
  • Reichstolz Mel 2012/06/16 14:52:42
    Reichstolz
    +2
    Sure, freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.
  • Mel Reichstolz 2012/06/16 23:35:32
    Mel
    +4
    They meant for both. I will not be chained by your religious beliefs. Nor will i chain you with mine. You obviously didn't read the top portion of the topic which had direct quotes from the founding fathers.
  • Reichstolz Mel 2012/06/16 23:57:15
    Reichstolz
    Yes, I did and the vast majority of those quotes have no bearing on the actual wording of the document. I look to the results of their work not their specific words. When as I stated, it is not freedom from religion it is freedom OF religion.
  • Mel Reichstolz 2012/06/17 00:03:21
    Mel
    +4
    Oh please you must be trying to convince yourself. With those negative feelings towards religion you actually think they'd establish it as part of government. Thomas Jefferson on the TReaty of tripoli clearly states: America was not founded upon any religion nor doctrinal creed." Do some research!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • DFA Mel 2012/06/17 00:26:10
  • Mel DFA 2012/06/17 06:13:09
    Mel
    Nice Graphic
  • Reichstolz Mel 2012/06/17 13:19:37
    Reichstolz
    Thomas Jefferson wrote his own bible.
  • Mel Reichstolz 2012/06/17 17:48:51
    Mel
    +1
    And in the bible he wrote these is no divinity associated with Jesus
  • Reichstolz Mel 2012/06/18 13:45:39
    Reichstolz
    You are correct, just pointing out the idiocy of those who say Jefferson was a deist.
  • Mel Reichstolz 2012/06/19 05:34:23
    Mel
    he was not a theist. He was a deist, although more of a healthy skeptic
  • Reichstolz Mel 2012/06/19 13:36:11
    Reichstolz
    Have you read the bible he wrote? Not a deist.
  • Mel Reichstolz 2012/06/19 17:49:55
    Mel
    +1
    I have a copy, and he attribute NO miracles or Deity powers to Jesus.
  • Reichstolz Mel 2012/06/19 21:50:13
    Reichstolz
    Look to his stance on Jesus' Father.

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