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Should Child Circumcision Be Allowed?

SodaHead News 2012/06/28 22:50:47
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Circumcision has been a religious tradition for many years, but has often been the subject of controversy because of the effect it could potentially have on children. On Tuesday, a German court ruled that child circumcision can be classified as "grievous bodily harm." The issue went to court when a 4-year-old boy began bleeding profusely as the result of a circumcision. Naturally, religious communities that practice circumcision are upset.

The court ruled, "[The] fundamental right of the child to bodily integrity outweighed the fundamental rights of the parents ... The religious freedom of the parents and their right to educate their child would not be unacceptably compromised, if they were obliged to wait until the child could himself decide to be circumcised."

In response, the head of the Central Committee of Jews said the ruling is "an unprecedented and dramatic intervention in the right of religious communities to self-determination ... [an] outrageous and insensitive act. Circumcision of newborn boys is a fixed part of the Jewish religion and has been practiced worldwide for centuries."

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  • xcheshirecat 2012/06/28 23:19:19
    No
    xcheshirecat
    +41
    religious freedom is about the baby's religion. I don't see how he can have one at that age...

    Baby have the right, like any other human, of body integrity

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  • Dan Seely meshell 2012/07/01 12:25:35
    Dan Seely
    +2
    You aren't a bad mother, you were given horrible information and made some bad decisions as a result. It could've have happened to anyone.
  • meshell Dan Seely 2012/07/01 12:35:55
    meshell
    oh come on Seely all bloody day and now you change your tune... i know im not a bad mother, my boys are testimony to that.
  • Dan Seely meshell 2012/07/01 18:52:43
    Dan Seely
    +1
    I NEVER said you were a bad mother. If you believe so, please show me where!
  • Dan Seely meshell 2012/07/01 12:04:44
    Dan Seely
    +1
    No, according to what you previously wrote, you watched as nurses in a hospital committed that crime and encouraged you to keep it up!
  • meshell Dan Seely 2012/07/01 05:28:26
    meshell
    hehehehe
  • Dan Seely meshell 2012/07/01 09:31:57 (edited)
    Dan Seely
    +2
    "Genital Mutilation is no joke!"--Christopher Hitchens (RIP)
  • stars c... Dan Seely 2012/07/02 15:20:55
    stars cascade
    +1
    She's clearly a troll. A bad one at that.
    Side note - my son is just retractable at 7yo. :) no soap, no early retraction. No infections or smells or anything awful. Just a happy healthy boy, as perfect as the day he was born.
    Why people think immediately amputating tissue at birth is normal I will never understand. Its the very definition of ABnormal. Ugh!
  • meshell stars c... 2012/07/04 05:22:41
    meshell
    the child you described yours, was as my boys were. happy healthy. no smells no infections fine. get over it
  • Happy21... meshell 2012/07/06 22:45:44
    Happy212121
    All you f*ckers giving Meshell a hard time need to do some research on bullying, and on how not to be self-righteous a-holes! Meshell, F them! You did what you felt was right for your sons as their Mother. That decision was yours to make. These people have berated you to the point of absurdity. Some people can't handle learning new information, they think it makes them experts. And to the Vee person who likened it to sexual abuse...WTF is wrong with YOU?! Where do you even the get the nerve to accuse people of such an evil act? You are a sick human being. And the jury is not in on wether or not it was good that many of these boys were not circumcised. Just wait til your son comes home and says he fell in love with a girl who won't be with him b/c his d*ck looks like it's been taken hostage by an oversized piece of luncheon meat. Meshell, You are a good Mother and you be proud of having your boys circumcised. They are happy you did it when they were little. They don't remember it and I'm sure they have all the confidence they need when it comes to their masculinity. These people are just sick. They are probably a couple of fat, nasty perverts who actually enjoy talking nonstop about little boys' genitals. That's why they took up such a cause and that's why they won't shut the F up already. Let's see how you guys like to be called dirty names when someone disagrees with you. Doesn't feel good does it?????
  • meshell Happy21... 2012/07/07 01:54:23
    meshell
    +1
    well thank you very much Happy21, i got sick of arguing with them, i know i did well by my boys the choices i made for them have in no way harmed them. it is evident by my boys behaviour, manners, respect and morals that i have been the best mum they could have had. adults were blown away by their maturity and respect when they were in their early teens, 23 and 19 and not once has anyone had anything negative tosay about them, i am proud of them and of myself, if ive dont one thing right in life its giving the world 2 young gentlemen, something the world could do with more of.. thank you again. may your days be filled with sunshine and your nights with stary skies.
  • Happy21... meshell 2012/07/07 05:05:58
    Happy212121
    You are certainly right about that Meshell. The world could definitely use more gentlemen. I wish those other lunatics had been raised like your sons. They could've benefitted quite well from having a Mother like you. I do apologize for the language in my post (although only to you..not to those idiots). I am normally not so quick to use profanity but I've never been so appalled by the amount of bullying and ganging up that those posters were exhibiting. You did a great job of holding your own btw...kudos for that. And just so you know, I have three children, 2 of which are boys. I had them both circumcised as well and there were NO complications with them either. They were not in shock and the only cried very briefly. They cried more when receiving shots. My husband and I considered our decision very seriously and we made the best choice for us and our little boys. I do not and never have felt the least bit guilty. As Mothers, this world is FULL of people just so ready to tell us how we do everything wrong. The guilt that Mothers can end up with because of these people is out of this world. And they always attack us where it hurts the most...our hearts. The love we have for our children is always held over us and challenged whenever people don't agree with our decisions. No o...
    You are certainly right about that Meshell. The world could definitely use more gentlemen. I wish those other lunatics had been raised like your sons. They could've benefitted quite well from having a Mother like you. I do apologize for the language in my post (although only to you..not to those idiots). I am normally not so quick to use profanity but I've never been so appalled by the amount of bullying and ganging up that those posters were exhibiting. You did a great job of holding your own btw...kudos for that. And just so you know, I have three children, 2 of which are boys. I had them both circumcised as well and there were NO complications with them either. They were not in shock and the only cried very briefly. They cried more when receiving shots. My husband and I considered our decision very seriously and we made the best choice for us and our little boys. I do not and never have felt the least bit guilty. As Mothers, this world is FULL of people just so ready to tell us how we do everything wrong. The guilt that Mothers can end up with because of these people is out of this world. And they always attack us where it hurts the most...our hearts. The love we have for our children is always held over us and challenged whenever people don't agree with our decisions. No one loves a child like a Mother. No one cares for their child like a Mother. And no Mother deserves to be treated or talked to in the manner they did. Thank you for your kind words. I can only hope to raise my little boys as well as you raised yours. You are an inspiration to women everywhere...and especially to those who are themselves Mothers. =)
    (more)
  • meshell Happy21... 2012/07/07 08:16:15
    meshell
    darling i amblown away by your responce. thank you very much, i made mistakes with the boys, but we all do. I followed the way my MOTHER raised us. she was a good MOTHER. she looked to our future when raising us. as we all should.. Bless you
  • disclaimer 2012/06/30 23:25:19
    Yes
    disclaimer
    +3
    Circumcising a newborn baby does not cause "grievous bodily harm." I've never heard of that happening and I'm Jewish.
  • holyher... disclaimer 2012/07/01 04:18:35
  • ☥☽✪☾DAW... holyher... 2012/07/01 04:35:29
    ☥☽✪☾DAW ☽✪☾
    +1
    Isn't it time for a tenth Crusade, against the heathen Muslims and Jews in the holy land?
    http://www.sodahead.com/unite...

    you need to see this question
  • Dan Seely ☥☽✪☾DAW... 2012/07/01 04:50:38
    Dan Seely
    +3
    The question posed is just too messed up to even dignify a response!
  • holyher... ☥☽✪☾DAW... 2012/07/01 06:19:28
  • Dan Seely holyher... 2012/07/01 09:21:13
  • ☥☽✪☾DAW... holyher... 2012/07/01 13:58:30
    ☥☽✪☾DAW ☽✪☾
    +1
    Good i told that idiot off
  • ☥☽✪☾DAW... holyher... 2012/07/02 00:26:38 (edited)
    ☥☽✪☾DAW ☽✪☾
    +1
    Raven my Elder told me this the jewish phrase originated You smuck, Smuck= forskin of circumsism

    i actually looked this up and i couldnt believe it but yes

    so when people say oh you Smuck they are saying you Dick Refering to being Circumsised
  • holyher... ☥☽✪☾DAW... 2012/07/02 05:38:34
  • ☥☽✪☾DAW... holyher... 2012/07/01 19:56:45
    ☥☽✪☾DAW ☽✪☾
    +1
    Judge Sentences Woman to Read Bible Book that Mocks Idea of Justice
    http://www.theprovocation.net...
  • ☥☽✪☾DAW... holyher... 2012/07/01 20:01:06
  • UGH...L... holyher... 2012/07/01 22:47:31
    UGH...LIBS ~ PWCM ~ JLA ~
    Don't fret, hh!

    Help is on the way.

    pump
  • Dan Seely disclaimer 2012/07/01 04:45:15
    Dan Seely
    +3
    You have obviously not read the Jewish Sage and Philosopher Moses Maimonides (Rambam); he outlined many harms. What makes it worse is that these harms are "by design" or "INTENTIONAL"--both for men and women!

    "Similarly with regard to
    circumcision , one of the reasons for
    it is, in my opinion, the wish to
    bring about a decrease in sexual
    intercourse and a weakening of the
    organ in question, so that this
    activity be diminished and the
    organ be in as quiet a state as
    possible. It has been thought that
    circumcision perfects what is
    defective congenitally. This gave the
    possibility to everyone to raise an
    objection and to say: How can
    natural things be defective so that
    they need to be perfected from
    outside, all the more because we
    know how useful the foreskin is for
    that member? In fact this
    commandment has not been
    prescribed with a view to
    perfecting what is defective
    congenitally, but to perfecting what
    is defective morally. The bodily
    pain caused to that member is the
    real purpose of circumcision. None
    of the activities necessary for the
    preservation of the individual is
    harmed thereby, nor is procreation
    rendered impossible, but violent
    concupiscence and lust that goes
    beyond what is needed are
    diminished. The fact that
    circumcision weakens the faculty of
    sexual excitemen...












    You have obviously not read the Jewish Sage and Philosopher Moses Maimonides (Rambam); he outlined many harms. What makes it worse is that these harms are "by design" or "INTENTIONAL"--both for men and women!

    "Similarly with regard to
    circumcision , one of the reasons for
    it is, in my opinion, the wish to
    bring about a decrease in sexual
    intercourse and a weakening of the
    organ in question, so that this
    activity be diminished and the
    organ be in as quiet a state as
    possible. It has been thought that
    circumcision perfects what is
    defective congenitally. This gave the
    possibility to everyone to raise an
    objection and to say: How can
    natural things be defective so that
    they need to be perfected from
    outside, all the more because we
    know how useful the foreskin is for
    that member? In fact this
    commandment has not been
    prescribed with a view to
    perfecting what is defective
    congenitally, but to perfecting what
    is defective morally. The bodily
    pain caused to that member is the
    real purpose of circumcision. None
    of the activities necessary for the
    preservation of the individual is
    harmed thereby, nor is procreation
    rendered impossible, but violent
    concupiscence and lust that goes
    beyond what is needed are
    diminished. The fact that
    circumcision weakens the faculty of
    sexual excitement and sometimes
    perhaps diminishes the pleasure is
    indubitable. For if at birth this
    member has been made to bleed
    and has had its covering taken
    away from it, it must indubitably be
    weakened. The Sages, may their
    memory be blessed , have explicitly
    stated: It is hard for a woman with
    whom an uncircumcised man has
    had sexual intercourse to separate
    from him. In my opinion this is the
    strongest of the reasons for
    circumcision."
    (more)
  • holyher... Dan Seely 2012/07/01 07:15:26
  • disclaimer Dan Seely 2012/07/01 23:10:53
    disclaimer
    Except that doesn't happen.
  • Dan Seely disclaimer 2012/07/02 01:20:54
    Dan Seely
    Actually it does, but if it didn't that is the intent! So how is all of this so warm and fuzzy?
  • disclaimer Dan Seely 2012/07/02 05:30:49
    disclaimer
    I'm Jewish. I've read studies about this. Maybe that's the intent, but it's passed from that to being a religious ritual. Circumcision does not affect the sex life of the person.
  • Dan Seely disclaimer 2012/07/02 01:47:06
    Dan Seely
    Actually it does, but if it didn't that is the intent! So how is all of this so warm and fuzzy?
  • Hamilton 2012/06/30 22:17:18
    Yes
    Hamilton
    +1
    It is stuff like this that makes the Left the new natural home for antisemitism.
  • Dan Seely Hamilton 2012/06/30 22:49:35
    Dan Seely
    +2
    Actually not offering the same basic human rights to Jewish and Muslim males and Coptic Christians would be Anti-Semitic in addition to already being Mysandrist. BTW the hypocritical ACLU is on "your side"!
  • disclaimer Hamilton 2012/06/30 23:23:19
  • Dan Seely disclaimer 2012/07/01 05:24:53
    Dan Seely
    True as well as are most Intactivists and Intactivist Jews who are committed to human rights and promote Bris Shalom. We are not Nazis and they are not "Self Hating Jews" as most libel would like to lead you to believe.
  • disclaimer Dan Seely 2012/07/01 23:12:02
    disclaimer
    I'm not exactly sure what you mean. What side are you on?
  • Hamilton disclaimer 2012/07/01 15:41:36
    Hamilton
    Yeah, and too many of my cousins have a deep suicidal streak. I always tell them if they want to commit suicide, do it the old fashioned way, and not take me and my family with them.
  • disclaimer Hamilton 2012/07/01 23:12:11
    disclaimer
    And that's relevant how...?
  • Hamilton disclaimer 2012/07/04 02:58:48
    Hamilton
    Do I REALLY have to connect the dots for you? Seriously?
  • disclaimer Hamilton 2012/07/06 20:19:21
    disclaimer
    I see no relationship between Jews being Liberal and your cousins being suicidal.
  • Rachel 2012/06/30 22:15:33 (edited)
    Yes
    Rachel
    +3
    Male circumcision should be legal, however, not for religious reasons. I agree that a parent's religious freedom does not outweigh a child's right to non-injury. That said, male circumcision is much more than a religious procedure. It is also important for health. Here are some pros, health-wise, for being circumcised:

    - "There is compelling evidence that male circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men by approximately 60%." http://www.who.int/hiv/topics...
    - "According to a multinational study conducted by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), the odds that circumcised men had penile HPV infection were about 60% lower than the odds that uncircumcised men had this diagnosis.1 Among monogamous women who had a partner reporting six or more lifetime sexual partners, the odds of having cervical cancer were reduced by about 60% if the partner had been circumcised." http://www.guttmacher.org/pub...
    - "Circumcised heterosexual men are 35% less likely to contract human papillomavirus (HPV) and 25% less likely to catch herpes than their uncircumcised counterparts, according to the study, published in this week's New England Journal of Medicine." http://online.wsj.com/article...

    Plus, male circumcision reduces the risk of spreading HPV (a...
    Male circumcision should be legal, however, not for religious reasons. I agree that a parent's religious freedom does not outweigh a child's right to non-injury. That said, male circumcision is much more than a religious procedure. It is also important for health. Here are some pros, health-wise, for being circumcised:

    - "There is compelling evidence that male circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men by approximately 60%." http://www.who.int/hiv/topics...
    - "According to a multinational study conducted by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), the odds that circumcised men had penile HPV infection were about 60% lower than the odds that uncircumcised men had this diagnosis.1 Among monogamous women who had a partner reporting six or more lifetime sexual partners, the odds of having cervical cancer were reduced by about 60% if the partner had been circumcised." http://www.guttmacher.org/pub...
    - "Circumcised heterosexual men are 35% less likely to contract human papillomavirus (HPV) and 25% less likely to catch herpes than their uncircumcised counterparts, according to the study, published in this week's New England Journal of Medicine." http://online.wsj.com/article...

    Plus, male circumcision reduces the risk of spreading HPV (and possibly HIV and herpes as well, but I can't remember), and can reduce the risk of infection caused by build-up under the foreskin (though, tbh, the latter may not be a good reason to have your male child circumcised...).
    (more)

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