School Uses Shock Therapy on Autistic Students: Constructive or Cruel?

No, there hasn't been anything to retort the 67 pages or whatever yet. If it is there, it hasn't been shown.

Then you haven't watched the news reports or read the article I first linked where they discussed the school's take on it all, as well as some parents who support it. Sorry, but I can't read and watch it for you if you're too lazy to do it yourself...

I did read and watch before, but it's just opinions. No actual facts that would be used.

Don't lie. You did not read and watch. You have no interest in facts.

Watched and read it all. I'll wait for the facts.

Facts are irrelevant to you.

Facts is what will give both sides to the story. If you don't think the people sharing this story aren't a bit bias then you just don't pay any attention to what the media can and will do in this country.

Raider, I am done with you. You are an idiot. As I said in a previous post to you. There is nothing that is going to change your mind, that you need more information. everybody has different thresholds. I swear you believe your own BS. My son is autistic , it's hard headed people like you and Israel that set progress back of these people. My son has improved by leaps and bounds, but he was not shockededinto submission for him to get there. He has come a long way but he got there by being taught not tortured. Good day

OK, that's fair enough. Have you ever felt the shocks yourself? Either have I. And I have no idea what the level of electricity is. If it's what the one lady says it is for all then I'm against it, but I can't go by what just a few think or say.

Yes you do know the "level of electricity". I provided you with detailed information on precisely that just a few replies up from here. And I quoted it from a 67 page report on this school's dubious practices. But you still need more information...

Of course I do because it's a report written by whom? The level of electricity is not given to me by you.

You said: "Of course I do because it's a report written by whom?"

By Mental Disability Rights International.

You said: "The level of electricity is not given to me by you."

Oh no? Allow me to quote myself:

"The shock administered is both painful and dangerous. The first generation of the GED administers 15.5 milliamps RMS of electricity for approximately 2 seconds – with a peak intensity of 30 milliamps. The GED-4 is approximately 3 times stronger than the original shock machine developed by Israel for children whose behavior cannot be controlled by the GED or who have become inured to the pain. It delivers 45.0 milliamps RMS for 2 seconds, with a peak intensity of 91 milliamps. According to the JRC website, they are now developing a third, more painful iteration of the GED."

These number mean nothing if you want to compare what other machines put out. A simple TENS unit puts out more and you can find them in every physical therapist and trainers room in America. I'm just sayin.

Face palm all you want, it's truth.

It's nowhere near the truth. You're comparing athletes and such consenting to therapy that they have a say on in regards to intensity of the voltage being used. This story, however, is about terrified autistic kids with multiple electrodes hooked up to them that are set to painful levels and are triggered as a complete surprise as punishment. It's not even apples to oranges - it's apples to monkeys.

Not just athletes, many many people daily use shock for ailments and of all ages.

Painful levels?

Right - they elect to do so for treatments as opposed to being strapped down in isolation and being surprised by painful shocks in random areas of their body as punishment. And yes, "painful" by every single account. Even the school says that at best, the shock feels like a bee sting, although everyone I've seen and read about who's actually experienced it says it's far worse than a bee sting. In some cases, the smell of burning flesh has been reported as a result of them. I think most people would agree that bee stings are painful.

But why am I bothering to reiterate this to you when you clearly have no interest in information on it? You're only interested in excusing the torture of autistic kids.

There you have it. The school says one thing and the other side says another. Exactly my point.

And the burning flesh smell, again is something from the opposition.

If you have an autistic kid I'm sure you're 100% against it but there are parents that support it also. If you don't support it get your kid out of the place, if you support it, put them there.

Holy crap you're dense. Again - even bee stings are generally recognized as painful. And aside from this fact, TRYING TO CONDITION AUTISTIC KIDS THROUGH PAIN-BASED PUNISHMENT IS NOT CONSTRUCTIVE! Had to put it in caps as you've been so gleefully and willfully blind to this underlying flaw in the school's practices. And frankly, just because a parent chooses to subject their autistic child to torturous treatments doesn't make it okay either. You may not realize this, but there are bad, irresponsible parents out there. We don't excuse any and all bad behavior simply because a parent did it.

I've been bit by several bees and I've had TENS units hooked up to me more than you would even know and the TENS units are sometimes greater than the bee sting and sometimes not depending on what the situation is.

You call it torturous when others do not. Obviously there is a conflict of opinion and I'm not sure where mine lies yet not knowing all the facts.

Context is key. You seem unable or unwilling to comprehend that though, so you'll surely just remain happy to excuse the continued torture of autistic children.

Torture is a strong word to be using when accusing someone of something until all the facts do in fact come out.

I'd respond to your reply but I can't because you have resorted to blocking.

I can't resist. Okay Raider. Where is YOUR proof that ther are machine that put out more and they are in every physical therapist offices? You going to quote you fictitious friends who are in the field? They will hold as much weight as the facts and videos that are slapping you in the face but you don't want to admit it is happening and should not be. Dr. Israel? Is that you Dr? Hiding behind a user name like Raider, trying to get a feel for if you are going to jail? Trying to taint the jury pool and get some sympathetic people on the jury who might let you off?

Dude they are shocking a kid because he didn't want to remove his coat. What they did to him is criminal. If a parent would do it they'd be sitting in jail. The state should not be able to do something to a child his own parents can't do. What happen to humanity?

Do you really think this one incident made this happen? Really?

More information is needed.

If it's what is said here 100% then I'm also against it.

You are kidding, right? You need more information? You saw the tape that the school's attorney tried his best to make sure it didn't see the light of day. A video showed you a demo done by a reporter on the story how much it hurts and that was just one electrode. It said some kids have as many as 5 total on their arms and legs Do you think she was faking her pain? That same news piece showed how this Israel defends the GED and the fear in that girl's reaction when she saw the unit. Are you looking for a study? Facts and figures, perhaps a survey from the special needs students that were subjected to the therapy too? Maybe an interview with Israel?

I think you are one of those people who would not believe a 2x4 is a 2x4 until you were hit in the head with it. Seriously though I don't think anyone is going sway you no matter how much evidence you were presented with. Good thing they already have this in court and you are not involved or you would be priceless for the defense of the school's use of shock treatment to treat these kids like cattle.

Like I've said before, there is way to little information here to come up with an opinion. IF it's what is presented here 100% then I'm against it.

I provided him with a study. A 67 page study that outlines the school's practices in extremely disturbing detail. Here it is: http://abcnews.go.com/images/... That wasn't enough for him either.

I'm going to go and look at this. If it gives all the information neede and it is from a reputable organization, I am going to deem this conversation useless. it will prove that Raider is nothing more than a troll disagreeing just for the sake of argueing and is therefore useless.

Grand,

I looked at the link you posted. It's all there. Dr. Israel was suspected of being involved in a death of a patient some time ago,ay?
Anyway, Getting off topic. Everyone should say goodbye to Raiders, the link Grand put up there has all the information Raider could possibly want and it would satisfy him if he were a logical, reasonable person. However. he is not. he doesn't want any information. he's just trying to keep an argument going.
If there is an ignore feature on Sodahead I will be placing our boy Raiders on it. No sense in listening to someone who is purposely thick headed and not willing to see facts even when they are asked for and given.

Okay. You are talking about something used to treat the big apes in sports who sprain an ankle or pull a muscle and get light pulses of electricity to stimulate healing after some physical therapy, I've had physical therapy and I know the strengh of the pulses. They turn up the pulses until the patient tells them when it tingles.
This is being applied to special needs children to inflict pain for purposes of punishing and they call it therapy. Bottom line. The video says it all. The amount of voltage used and the amount of time for each pulse goes far beyond treatment goes right into torturing to make the subject submit to their will. Nothing less than that.

If you are correct, please tell me how much voltage is being used because nobody else has been able to say.

I also have used the machines used for therapy and it's not just a tingling if used properly.

And yes, I'm 100% against it if what is being described is accurate.


Again, I'd reply but you know I'm right so your argument holds no basis. Block block block.

Brilliant!!!

Some Taser guns are also powered by a AAA battery, capacitors and resistors amplify the battery enough to knock a 300 pound man on his back and incapacitate him.

So much for only being a AAA battery.

My husband has a cousin with autism, he's 69. My girlfriend has a granddaughter that is autistic, she 10. The people need structure and disicipline not shock treatment. They are using this shock to train and disiciline not for any kind of cure. Would you use that to train a dog?

People use shock treatments all the time for dogs.

How much voltage?

I don't care "how much voltage", I just care about the scream of agony coming from this child.

That's the thing, it does matter what the voltage is because it could very well be just a reaction from something different. I've heard of kids screaming at the top of their lungs when they get a shot from the Dr. because it scares them and it's something they are not used to or haven't experienced. Have you ever felt the voltage of an outdoor lighting system that you see lighting up trees at peoples homes? I'm guessing this is what these shock treatments are like until I see proof otherwise.

Sorry can't agree with you on this.

I'm sorry,Raider, I guess I should have asked you this. It's the second time you said it depends on how much voltage and where it is applied. Are you a doctor or speaking from a position of expert knowledge to back that claim up? People are not cars where you just give them a jump start.