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Role of government: what should it be?

Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆ 2012/06/15 17:18:46
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It’s official: when we choose a President this fall, we will also
choose a theory on the role of government. The putative President and
the Mayor of New York both said it this week. Voters need to hear and
understand exactly what they said and what this means.


What Obama and Bloomberg said

Yesterday, Barack H. Obama traveled to Cleveland, Ohio. He gave a
rambling and almost petulant speech in this historic “battleground”
State. Mostly he said, “It’s all Bush’s fault,” or something amounting
to that. (Maybe he had read this Gallup Poll. Katie Pavlich has some other numbers that should set that record straight.)


But Obama said one thing worth hearing. The New York Times had two reporters on the ground to hear it:


Your vote will finally determine the path that we take as a nation — not just tomorrow, but for years to come.


In other words, Obama said that you will vote for more than a
President (or to be technical, Presidential Electors). You will vote for
a role of government. You will vote whether government will be your
nanny or your monitor and arbiter.


If you doubt that, Mayor Mike Bloomberg should remove that doubt.
Last week he made a rule that no convenience store, movie candy counter,
etc., could sell you a drink larger than 16 ounces. Soft drink bottlers
then took out a full page ad in the Times showing Bloomberg as “The Nanny.” (Or maybe as the title character in the Robin Williams movie Mrs. Doubtfire.)


What’s next? Limits on the width of a pizza slice, size of a hamburger or amount of cream cheese on your bagel?


Actually, popcorn and milkshakes are next. But Bloomberg brazenly said that he was only doing his job!


If [the role of government] isn’t to improve the health and longevity of its citizens, I don’t know what [that role] is.


The mayor then contradicted himself. He told his TV host that he
didn’t mean to tell people what to do. But he and his Board of Health
are doing just that!


Excuse me, Mr. (putative) President. Excuse me, Mr. Mayor. Obama is half right, and Bloomberg is totally wrong.


The proper role of government
The Constitution. It limits the role of government.

The US Constitution. Photo: National Archives of the United States


To “improve the health and [long life] of its citizens” (and lawful residents) is not the role of government. The Framers of the Constitution
never saw it that way. Nor is the role of government to guarantee you
an income, no matter what Richard A. Cloward and Frances Fox Piven said 56 years ago.


The role of government is to manage force. This role derives from a basic social principle: so long as humans live together, no one may start using force against another. But humans will
start using force, unless some other humans stop them, or deal with
them when they do. That is the proper role of government. That is why we
have government.


But the Progressive movement began with a new view of the role of government. They
first said that government must “improve the health and [long life]” of
those who live under it. And they didn’t stay with the Democratic
Party, or even start there. The first Progressive President was Theodore Roosevelt, a Republican.

So what does the role of government break down to? Three things:

Police

Military

Law courts

And that's it.

But what say you? Is Mayor Bloomberg right to say that the role of government is to "improve" your life, whether you think it could stand improving (and in that way) or not? Or do you believe, as I do, that your life is your own, and government's job is not to interfere with it, but instead to stop others from interfering?

Read More: http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2012/06/15...

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Top Opinion

  • Kimmel 2012/06/15 18:21:43
    To protect your rights from wrongful use of force.
    Kimmel
    +18
    There is a very thin line between guaranteeing rights and taking them away.

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  • hat man Lee 2012/06/19 15:42:54
    hat man
    Freedom is freedom. Governments automatically take your freedom. They tell you what you can or can't do. If you are killed by a gunman in a wild nation the blame lies with you for not surviving. You had the same resources open to you. I don't necessarily agree with it; I don't think people have it in them to survive without someone telling them how to live their life, what they can or can't do. But freedom includes the bad and the good.
  • Lee hat man 2012/06/23 16:11:47 (edited)
    Lee
    Good governance increases freedom.

    And it is government that implements good governance.
  • hat man Lee 2012/06/23 16:40:47
    hat man
    How exactly does it do that? When you put someone in control of you it decreases freedom. Laws decrease freedom. Even society decreases freedom. You have to understand freedom first. It is a pretty frightening ideal.
  • Lee hat man 2012/06/23 16:57:39 (edited)
    Lee
    Government keeps people from depriving you of your freedom.

    By imposing certain restrictions on freedom, the government increases overall freedom.

    For example, state and local governments restrict the freedom to kill, rape, commit arson, and plunder.

    Because of government, it's not likely that anybody will kill you, rape your wife, loot your home, and then burn you house down..

    And the Federal Government keeps people from violating your civil rights.

    Government frees you from victimization.
  • hat man Lee 2012/06/23 17:05:20
    hat man
    When governments outlaw these acts they take away the right and responsibility you have to deal with any threat as you see fit. Removing governments does not take away your freedom, if you are unable to protect yourself than it is your own fault. That’s what freedom is all about. And they take away your freedom to commit these crimes. If someone harms you in anyway in a free world you are also free to harm them in anyway. Freedom cuts both ways. The freedom to do 'good' and 'bad'. You cannot restrict freedom and increase freedom at the same time.
  • Lee hat man 2012/07/12 03:43:45
    Lee
    You are an incredible idiot.

    That's why you feel right at home in Right Wing Nut Job Land.
  • hat man Lee 2012/07/12 07:58:07 (edited)
    hat man
    I'm sorry you feel that way. It's OK though. It doesn't make either of us right. But most of all I'm sorry that you need big brother to tell you how to live.
  • hat man Lee 2012/07/12 07:58:45
    hat man
    Just so you know I'm not part of the right wing or whatever. I'm not American.
  • Lee hat man 2012/07/12 15:04:23 (edited)
    Lee
    Had any good gun fights in the UK lately ?

    Are you the fastest gun in London?

    If you're such an independent, government-hating individual, then why haven't you done anything about all those cameras over there watching your every move?

    Can't you just whip out your old Colt Peacemaker and shoot 'em down ?

    Or are you all talk?
  • hat man Lee 2012/07/12 17:32:18
    hat man
    I don't actually plan to live in England my whole life. But I do plan to at least finish uni here. And you are right those cameras have to go. Did you know that London has more CCTV cameras than New York? Or that the police can stop and search anyone that they want without a valid reason? What makes it even worse is the fact that they are the only ones who are armed. I never claimed to be government hating. Granted I dislike my government. Nor have I said I wish to actually live in an anarchist state. Or did you not see the part where I mention that I do not necessarily agree with (want to live in) an anarchist state?
  • Lee hat man 2012/07/12 20:59:58 (edited)
    Lee
    What the hell is an "anarchist state?"

    There's no such thing is there?

    When anarchy prevails, there is no state, and there is no justice because there is no law.

    Then you have what Hobbes calls life "in the state of nature," where a man owes allegiance only to himself and his family.

    . . . And life is "nasty, brutish, and short."
  • hat man Lee 2012/07/12 21:15:08
    hat man
    +1
    State as in "look at the state of that". To be honest with you I don't know what justice is. I don't put faith in the system that's for sure. If you're ever in court just make sure you have the moey and you'll be fine. Deep down a man looks after himself first. It's instinct. No matter what he says.
  • Lee hat man 2012/07/12 21:23:17 (edited)
    Lee
    Jeezus Keeerist . . . .You're a Brit and you know nothing about Hobbes.

    You probably don't know anything about JS Mill either.

    These countrymen of yours were great thinkers . . . and here you are with your "uni" education . . . And you sound like you have sh*t for brains.

    . . . . Maybe you should spend some time learning something . . .

    What the hell does your "uni" teach you?

    . . . That you should be proud of your individuality . . . proud of your ignorance? . . . Proud of your stupidity?

    I tell you what hat man, you have a lot to be humble about.
  • hat man Lee 2012/07/12 21:34:40
    hat man
    I'm actually one year away from Uni. And I know who Thomas Hobbes is. We talked about him in physics a few times and his work on gases. Wasn't he a philosopher? I hate most philosophers. Just 'pretty words' and no substance. The majority would be better off as poets. Though I'm not judging this one. I am unfamiliar with the name JS Mill. There is nothing to be proud of in individuality. Everyone is unique anyway. It isn't earned. We are all ignorant and we are all learned. It just depends on the subject. So that point is void. And I'm stupid? Well ok. You should get this aggression of your chest. Just a thought.
  • hat man hat man 2012/07/12 21:36:02
    hat man
    And I've heard that on average American kids are some of the least learned in the western world. Don’t know if it’s true.
  • hat man Lee 2012/07/12 21:16:08
    hat man
    Life is nasty, brutish and unpredictable. That's it spice.
  • Lee hat man 2012/07/12 21:26:58
    Lee
    Uh huh . . . and it will be really spicy in your "anarchist state" when some nasty brutish anarchist cuts your head off and p*sses down your windpipe.

    . . . anarchy might not seem so fun then.
  • hat man Lee 2012/07/12 21:38:41
    hat man
    Oh God... Did you read the part where I said (twice now) that I do not necessarily wish to live in anarchy. I am just trying to define freedom. In any case my fears of death are not too high. Most of the time I find life pretty boring.
  • Lee hat man 2012/07/12 22:00:33
    Lee
    It doesn't have to be boring.

    Can't you find a cause to get behind?

    It's sad that people see no point in life.

    Life can be very good.
  • hat man Lee 2012/07/13 06:50:41
    hat man
    Yes it can. But think of this way: We're born, we are educated just like everyone else, we work for 40 years and then we die.
  • Lee hat man 2012/07/13 13:31:51
    Lee
    And ??

    What exactly are you complaining about?

    Dying too soon?

    Well then, if long live is that important to you, become a Vegan.
  • hat man Lee 2012/07/13 15:33:12
    hat man
    No. It just seems meaningless sometimes. Just our pathetic completely irrelevant lives. We live in a bubble and when that bubble pops time forgets us. It just feels empty.
  • Lee hat man 2012/07/13 15:38:50
    Lee
    Pfffft . . . . Quit being such a drama queen.

    Your mind is an empty bubble.

    Go do something constructive, and quit acting like a pathetic Little B*tch.

    I feel embarrassed for you man.
  • hat man Lee 2012/07/13 15:47:35
    hat man
    I'm not emotional far from it. But answer me this: Throughout everything humanity has done how has it affected the universe? If we just suddenly vanished it couldn’t even make a difference. That's not air headed. That's the truth. And this is why when I hear people saying 'oh making something of your life' I find it more constructive to just relax and let the future come to me. I don't worry about many things. Who is judging what is 'constructive’ or not.
  • Lee hat man 2012/07/13 17:26:01
    Lee
    Since I'm not really in a position to know how humanity has affected the Universe, I can't answer that question.

    If you want to kick back and relax and let whatever might happen happen . .. fine, go for it.

    If you want to give up all of your personal power, that's your choice, but it's ridiculous to feel sorry for yourself, when you yourself make your life irrelevant.
  • hat man Lee 2012/07/13 17:41:50
    hat man
    I never said I feel sorry for myself. I try not to feel anything most of the time. Impossible, but I try. I despise most emotions. I just see emotions as weakness.
  • Lee hat man 2012/07/13 17:46:39
    Lee
    Mr. Spock?
  • hat man Lee 2012/07/13 18:09:35
    hat man
    I like to think that I do have emotions. LOL. They are just disliked. Which in itself is an emotion.
  • Kiosk Kid 2012/06/15 19:57:01
    Undecided
    Kiosk Kid
    +3
    The primary role of Government is to provide security for the citizens. It is the reason people choose to have a government. Otherwise, they would choose to have natural law where they are responsible for providing for their own security.

    However, government should also create a level paying field for all people to produce commerce. They should build roads and infrastructures using the money people pay for gas taxes.

    Unfortunately, our current government fails on all fronts. The only jobs that Obama creates are jobs producing weapons because many people feel they need to defend themselves against government. There is no level playing field because Obama chooses winners and losers.
  • Matt 2012/06/15 19:54:45
    Undecided
    Matt
    +7
    Government should protect the borders of its country, at home. They should also provide a climate that is conducive to commerce and industry, at home also.

    Government should also protect and uphold the constitution, as it was written and intended, just like they swore to do, when elected.
  • Louisa - Enemy of the State 2012/06/15 19:18:18
    Undecided
    Louisa - Enemy of the State
    +3
    Actually, the correct answer would be 'None of the Above'.

    "The Tenth Amendment provides that " The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/t...

    That the Federal government has routinely overridden the Tenth Amendment, it has more or less become a matter of common law. Meaning that if something is done repeatedly and accepted as valid, then it becomes valid by 'common law'. That's what's happened to the Tenth Amendment.
  • Tinka123 2012/06/15 19:04:44 (edited)
    Undecided
    Tinka123
    +2
    To recognize rights. The role of govt. is simply to recognize the rights of individuals - in our absence - while we protect and provide for ourselves.

    The sole function of govt. / law is force. And* govt. / laws are never "preventive." Laws don't save lives nor does govt. use law to "prevent crime." Law is force - a method of redress - to punish actions, not prevent them.

    So many of our nation's problems could be solved by simply recognizing those principles.
  • MickieDee 2012/06/15 18:58:34
    Undecided
    MickieDee
    If we are not united....then we might as well fend for ourselves. Government's role SHOULD be limited to what is absolutely essential -- protecting the public from clear and present danger.
  • hayesml47 2012/06/15 18:56:13
    Undecided
    hayesml47
    The role of a government is many things! It is a protector from forces without and within whether those forces are military, economic, natural, or even the government itself! Maintaining a stable economy with a controlled growth is probably the hardest since it should involve other countries governments in order to keep the balance world wide. Making sure that the poor are above the survival level while also allowing the middle classes to flourish, providing a buffer for, as well as an ability to advance to being part of, the richer classes. Providing military, police, fire, and medical forces to protect all citizens with and from all other human and natural occurencess, equally, is also necessary. A good government is also self-policing by providing as much public information as possible to keep those serving in public office as honest as possible. Those serving within the government should never be allowed consider themselves above their constituents, but only as public servants who depend on them for regular reaformation of their jobs. This is one of the best reasons for term limits along with prevention of garnering of too much power.
  • Red Branch 2012/06/15 18:54:22
    To protect your rights from wrongful use of force.
    Red Branch
    +6
    To protect our rights from those who wish to take those rights from us.
  • Doc 2012/06/15 18:53:05
    To protect your rights from wrongful use of force.
    Doc
    +9
    The powers enumerated in the constitution, and that's it.

    Even the post office.
  • JT For Political Reform 2012/06/15 18:44:30
    To protect your rights from wrongful use of force.
    JT For Political Reform
    +8
    And to protect us from outside forces such as being attacked by China, Russia, Iran or any other rogue countries that hate us. As far as improving my life, that's up to me not the government.
  • U-Dog 2012/06/15 18:42:13
    To protect your rights from wrongful use of force.
    U-Dog
    +8
    Run the courts, run the police, run the military and otherwise get the hell out the way and leave the people to grow, build and trade in peace.
  • Kimmel 2012/06/15 18:21:43
    To protect your rights from wrongful use of force.
    Kimmel
    +18
    There is a very thin line between guaranteeing rights and taking them away.
  • Tinka123 Kimmel 2012/06/15 19:06:07
    Tinka123
    +4
    Yes, I would say between guaranteeing rights and granting rights. So true. People often forget that any entity with the power to "grant" rights also has the power to limit or even eliminate those same rights.

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